From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 16:00:55 EDT Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #7 Linux-Misc Digest #7, Volume #1 Mon, 16 Aug 93 16:00:55 EDT Contents: Re: Recomendations for partitions - 2hda's/4gig! ("Peter R. Humphrey") Linux Satellites (Cheapest Linux Hardware Configuration) (Byron A Jeff) Re: Comments on the MCC Interim Release (Charles Blair) Re: ObjectBuilder from ParcPlace ? (Warner Losh) [PATCH] non-blinking software cursor for pl12 (& pl11) (Just GNU it.) Re: mkdosfs? (Rene COUGNENC) Re: Comments on the MCC Interim Release (Jim Graham) Re: interesting proposition (Juan Marchini) Re: The Daily Posting - what to do with it ? (Anthony Lovell) Re: mkdosfs? (Wolfgang Jung) mkdosfs? (Hymie!) Re: From your friends at UNIXWorld (Kevin Brown) linux docs? (Charles Copeland) Re: From your friends at UNIXWorld (Michael K. Johnson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: prh@essence.demon.co.uk ("Peter R. Humphrey") Subject: Re: Recomendations for partitions - 2hda's/4gig! Reply-To: prh@essence.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1993 11:17:32 +0000 In article slack@boi.hp.com (David Slack) writes: > 2. I don't want DOS to even be able to see the other bootable partitions. > Am I correct that it can't if they all reside as primary partitions? I can help a little with this part. I have DOS booting from C: in a primary partition occupying the whole drive. I also have a single extended partition on the second drive, with just part of it used as drive D: by DOS. Note: I did not define any other logical drives in the extended partition - not with DOS fdisk, anyway. To create two Linux partitions in the extended disk partition, I ran Linux fdisk from the SLS a1 disk and set up /dev/hdb6 as ext2fs (hdb5 was the DOS disk of course) and /dev/hdb7 as swap. The result is that DOS can only see two disks, whereas Linux can see four. Hope this does help a little. Ps. This was at the second attempt. First time around, I did use DOS fdisk to create logical disks for linux, and then Linux fdisk to change their types. I soon found that DOS progs could see drives E: and F: but couldn't understand what they were seeing. A bit of a mess really, which is why I didn't use DOS fdisk the second time. -- Rgds Peter Humphrey | prh@essence.demon.co.uk | Voice 0932-343158 Woking, UK. | | Data 0932-353948 ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) Subject: Linux Satellites (Cheapest Linux Hardware Configuration) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 01:49:50 GMT [ I'm starting a policy of cross-posting to c.o.l and the appropriate new newsgroup with the followup to the new newsgroup. It gives initial visibility but directs the discussion to the appropriate news group. ] I'm enjoying Linux so much that I'm starting to think about having more machines at home. The kiddies need one and it would be kinda nice to have a machine downstairs where I won't seem like such a hermit to my wife and kids ;-) To that end I'm wondering what would be the least expensive usable hardware configuration. This is what I'd like to be able to run: - Linux (obviously) - X windows - Networking/NFS NFS is important I think because I'd like to have my machine be a central server and other machines be clients. So I throw out the challenge: What is the least expensive configuration that'll do what I want. Here is my first crack at it (I almost forgot the video! ;-): $100.00 - 33 Mhz 386sx motherboard $120.00 - 4 MB of memory - Net bought of course ;-) $115.00 - 14 inch mono VGA monitors $ 80.00 - 40 Meg IDE drive - remember most of the software will be NFSed. $ 40.00 - Case and power supply - This is a cheat. A local dealer is getting rid of some large AT size cases with 200 W PS. $ 35.00 - Generic VGA card - only running the monochrome server. $ 30.00 - Ethernet Card - Buy 3 on the special offer floating on the net. $ 25.00 - 101 key keyboard $ 20.00 - Multi IDE card - 1 parallel - 2 serial - 2 IDE ======= $565.00 + Tax or shipping. What do you think? Of course for $45 more I can get a 40 Mhz 386 motherboard with 128K cache. Has anyone done this. With the relatively minicule cost of PC hardware and the wonderfullness of Linux I don't see why some folks don't have a machine in every room of their house ;-) Later, BAJ --- Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of... Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel! Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu ------------------------------ From: ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) Subject: Re: Comments on the MCC Interim Release Date: 14 Aug 1993 02:44:31 GMT I have not used SLS, but have been a happy mcc-interim user. The version I have has emacs 18, not 19, but some emacs gurus seem to think this is the superior version. mcc also has bison, gdb, info. ------------------------------ From: imp@boulder.parcplace.com (Warner Losh) Subject: Re: ObjectBuilder from ParcPlace ? Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 01:11:35 GMT In article <1993Aug13.152451.18024@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> i1101206@ws.rz.tu-bs.de (Cordes) writes: >Has anybody more information about this thing? I do :-) >Where can I find my own example of this thing? Right now you can't. We have run out of disks, and are waiting for the 2.0/4.0 release to become official before building the Linux distribution. Watch for the announcement in comp.os.linux.announce. >Is it worth (buying) ftp'ing ? I think so, but I'm biased. I cowrote the builder with Steve Misek. What do other people think? Warner -- Warner Losh imp@boulder.parcplace.COM ParcPlace Boulder I've almost finished my brute force solution to subtlety. ------------------------------ From: ghod@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Just GNU it.) Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux Subject: [PATCH] non-blinking software cursor for pl12 (& pl11) Date: 13 Aug 93 23:35:37 -0400 [Please note: I'm posting this to comp.os.linux and comp.os.linux.misc for the sole reason that some people may not have the new newsgroups available to them yet. In the future, I will only post updates to this patch (if they become necessary) to comp.os.linux.misc (it doesn't seem to fit in anywhere else).] Greetings: Appended to this file is an updated and much improved version of my software cursor patch for Linux 0.99 pl12 (I was going to hold off on releasing this until pl12 became official, but I wanted to get it out over c.o.l before it bit the dust). This version incorporates a fix for a really nasty bug and a few major overall improvements. This patch should also apply cleanly to pl11 (although the hunks may be offset slightly). Users of pl10 and earlier can also use this patch, but you will have to edit several pieces in by hand. Changes: ======= - Finally eliminated the 'stray cursor left hanging around after screen unblanks' bug. For real this time. Honest. :) - Completely re-did the software cursor code in set_cursor(). - Added a #define called SCURSCOLOR to set the software cursor color at compile time. Features: ======== - With this patch, the standard hardware-generated 'blinking underline' cursor is replaced with a software-generated non-blinking block cursor. - You can switch back and forth from software to hardware generated cursors at any time using a VT-200 style escape code. - Each VC's cursor is maintained seperately: you can have half your VCs using the software generated cursor, half of them using the hardware cursor, or any combination in between. New Features: ============ - The cursor color can be chosen at compile-time. Possible colors are white, yellow, magenta, red, green, cyan, blue and black. The default is white, which should accomodate monochrome display adapters as well as VGA or SVGA color ones. White seems to be a good, all-around default and I recommend using it, but if you have a color video adapter feel free to experiment. Whatever color is chosen will be retained across all VCs. - The cursor color remains the same regardless of what foreground/background colors are selected. The only exception is if the cursor color and the background color are chosen to be the same: in that case the cursor will appear black. (This is a feature, not a bug: the code in set_cursor() will never allow the cursor color and background color to be the same since that would make the cursor 'invisible', not to mention useless.) Before anyone asks: I am *not* planning to make the cursor color switchable at run time unless an angry mob comes after me and demands it. It would be feasible to add yet another escape code (or codes) to handle this, but I can't see any real advantage to it myself. If enough people show interest in the idea, however, I might be persuaded to give it a shot. Configuration: ============= There are now 3 #defines that control cursor behavior: #define NOBLINK 1 #define HCURSTYPE 0 #define SCURSCOLOR 112 If NOBLINK is #defined, all VCs will default to software generated cursors at boot time. If it is #undef'ed, they'll default to the usual hardware cursors. HCURSTYPE controls the size of the hardware cursor. 0 is a full-sized blinking block. 13 is the standard blinking underline. 15 is off (invisible). (Note that 'invisible' mode won't do you much good unless you're psychic. :) I have it set to a block instead of the usual underline just because it looks neater when switching back & forth from a blinking to non-blinking cursor. I never liked the stupid little flashing underline anyway, which is why I got into this mess in the first place. ;) SCURSCOLOR sets the software cursor color. The default is white. Legal values are: 0 16 32 48 64 80 96 112 black blue green cyan red magenta yellow white Note that setting the cursor color to black will actually work, only it will appear white on a black background since the code is smart enough to prevent the cursor form accidentally becoming 'invisible' due to a bad choice of screen colors. You can switch from software to hardware generated cursors on the fly using a VT-200 style escape code as follows: [?33h switch to hardware cursor [?33l switch to software cursor I have learned (thanks to nation@rocket.sanders.lockheed.com) that there actually aren't any escape codes defined for this sort of function in the VT-200 command set, however the codes I have selected do fit in the pattern. This makes them non-standard but harmless so long as nothing trips them by mistake. Note that even if you #undef'ed NOBLINK, you can still switch a VC to software cursor mode with these escapes. Installation: ============ This patch is a gzipped and uuencoded context diff against /linux/kernel/chr_drv/console.c. To apply it, extract the attached uuencoded file to /linux/kernel/chr_drv/noblink.uu and do the following: # uudecode noblink.uu # gunzip noblink.dif.gz # patch < noblink.dif Check for complaints from 'patch'. If it bitches about some hunks being offset by a few lines, that's fine. If it rejects some of the patch, you'll have to apply the rejected hunks by hand. Once you are sure the patch has been applied correctly, edit console.c and set the #defines as you prefer, then build your kernel. As always, questions, comments, complaints, flames, suggestions, bug reports, bug fixes, or large sums of cash are welcome and encouraged. Share and enjoy! -Bill Paul "A black hole is what happens ghod@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu when God divides by zero." PS: Special thanks to Michael Haardt (u31b3hs@pool.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE) for testing this on a mono display. ==================================CUT HERE==================================== begin 644 noblink.dif.gz M'XL("'0^:"P``VYO8FQI;FLN9&EF`-U:>W/;-A+_F_T4ZW3J4C8MBY9E27;M MUDG+!ERDYS^O=>1))!!:+Q6\? 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M`$D2O&P3(C_5*?(U24:U1D,BW(93CQ"FX]0%'<1BE4+';>&2BA6L4U1FG-<@ M>XM9'L+N,!'.<*$C% M*:PX2HW8+4N0=>9-&P5W)VX0-:;F1IYY&VN35&-M?FKD]8FA"I0/-U4K?QM* M"GW\S7_:>F6#"J7?/]('LSB1QO/1)QMX<^CH]S%T#+I%7ETZ_!6O1#K">M\\ M?GYZ\QR)]]/$2;0R?#&`T@E\Q(FK?H"+*Q?P=1^IGVP+3\%V MY(.Q^[P-0 MHV9[G2%JUBYRA4J241J_#C5X?_V6) will the standard fdformat create an msdos disk? or is there a utility > mkdosfs (similar to mke2fs) that will create this? then, i should be > able to simply mount -t msdos and write to the disk. Use the mtools... Or, if you don't want to install them for just one or two floppies ( you should...), after the fdformat ( low-level), just copy an empty dos-formatted disk to add the DOS file-system on it. -- linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux ------------------------------ From: jim@n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham) Subject: Re: Comments on the MCC Interim Release Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 02:36:02 GMT In article quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu writes: >** MCC is a wonderful installation package. ** Absolutely no argument there. I've never used SLS, so I can't speak for that one, but my first Linux installation (with MCC) was mostly a breeze. The majority of the problems I had after installation were either stupid mistakes on my part (e.g., UUCP setup---not part of MCC) or problems due to the fact that I had a *VERY* old copy of the root disk, and I ran into a lot of shared library conflicts. Btw, does anyone know of a landline BBS that has the latest version of the MCC root disk image? I'd like to update some of my older binaries. Btw, please don't suggest any BBS sites that either aren't in the US, or don't grant first-time access to the Linux files---my long distance bills won't support them if either of these applies. >I truly wish that the Linux community would give the MCC-interim >package the spotlight that it deserves (and perhaps a piece of the FAQ >the size of SLS's chunk!). I had even heard once that the MCC releases were no longer even being done. It now seems that this certainly wasn't true, but the MCC release clearly doesn't get the attention it should. --jim -- #include 73 DE N5IAL (/4) ==========================< Running Linux 0.99 PL9 >========================== INTERNET: jim@n5ial.mythical.com | j.graham@ieee.org ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W AMATEUR RADIO: (packet station temporarily offline) AMTOR SELCAL: NIAL ============================================================================== E-mail me for information about KAMterm (host mode for Kantronics TNCs). ------------------------------ From: marchini@ds18.scri.fsu.edu (Juan Marchini) Subject: Re: interesting proposition Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 05:23:21 GMT In article daniel@austin.ibm.com (Daniel Supernaw-Issen) writes: yes VERY good idea. i think someone should check out the possibility of doing this. it might scare software/hardware companies into doing something for us :) juan ------------------------------ From: alovell@kerberos.demon.co.uk (Anthony Lovell) Subject: Re: The Daily Posting - what to do with it ? Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1993 20:56:00 +0000 Gilbert Nardo (gil@netcom.com) wrote: : Post the weekly stuff ASAP -- september is back-to-school month : for many students and I expect a slew of linux virgins arriving :-). All ready for sacrifice on the altar of our God :) -- anthony ============================================================================== alovell@kerberos.demon.co.uk | If at first you don't succeed | alovell@cix.compulink.co.uk | Get a Bigger Hammer ============================================================================== ------------------------------ From: wong@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Jung) Subject: Re: mkdosfs? Date: 14 Aug 1993 11:20:34 GMT Rene COUGNENC (rene@renux.frmug.fr.net) wrote: : Ce brave Hymie! ecrit: : > will the standard fdformat create an msdos disk? or is there a utility : > mkdosfs (similar to mke2fs) that will create this? then, i should be : > able to simply mount -t msdos and write to the disk. : Use the mtools... Or, if you don't want to install them for just one or : two floppies ( you should...), after the fdformat ( low-level), just copy : an empty dos-formatted disk to add the DOS file-system on it. You just need to write TRACK 0 (36 sectors /18Kbytes ) The rest normaly s DATA :-) : -- : linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux linux ------------------------------ From: hymowitz@galileo.cs.jhu.edu (Hymie!) Subject: mkdosfs? Reply-To: hymowitz@cs.jhu.edu (Hymie!) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 21:04:41 GMT as ashamed as i am to admit it, sometimes i need to create an msdos disk to put things on and take to other computers. will the standard fdformat create an msdos disk? or is there a utility mkdosfs (similar to mke2fs) that will create this? then, i should be able to simply mount -t msdos and write to the disk. thanx in advance. --hymie hymowitz@cs.jhu.edu =============================================================================== i don't know what the meaning of life is, but i'm sure it's a verb. --overheard =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.os.linux From: kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) Subject: Re: From your friends at UNIXWorld Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 04:56:04 GMT [I've crossposted to comp.os.linux.misc, and set followups there.] In article <24eddtINNk4b@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> ksh@prl.ufl.edu (Kevin S Ho) writes: >In article , kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) writes: >|> >: : Man, what do you want from *FREE* software? >|> >: : Linux has the disadvantage that it's TOO GOOD. It looks too much like >|> >: : commercial software; so, when people see it, they get upset that it >|> >: : doesn't look *more* like commercial software. > >Well, no one I have seen ever bitches about Linux'es capabilities. They go down in >flames over "ease of use" (more later) To some extent, "ease of use" is a valid gripe. As someone else pointed out, Linux has gotten to the point where non-computer types want to use it *because* it is as capable as it is. These people, unfortunately, don't know Unix or their hardware the way they might need to in order to do the installation. Furthermore, they might not be able to learn Unix (lack of resources) until they've got Linux up and running. Chicken and egg problem. I'm not at all saying that this is an easy problem. Hardware configurations are so variable in the PC-clone world that coping with a particular configuration is essentially a shot in the dark. So I understand the frustration of people who have problems installing Linux on their system. But help is on the way. I plan on getting into installing Linux for a fee, providing tutorial services, etc., to anyone in the area that's willing to pay me for it. >|> >Don't complain about SLS or MCC Linux installs. They may not be pretty, but >|> >they work "as advertised" with few surprises. The most difficult thing for >|> >me was to figure out how to correctly partition my hard drives to get >|> >everything to work together. > >Well, that's a good point, but take a total idiot and tell him to install >linux....... Which is precisely the problem... >|> Yup. Linux is really great stuff. Highest quality stuff *I've* ever seen. > >I agree, if you're willing to put in a few minutes of work for every program >(except ones with precomp-binaries), because you are usually *porting to linux* >and having to put up with the mutantness of linux (SYSV with some BSD with >some hell if Iknow) Having ported a number of things to System Vr4, I can tell you flat out that porting to Linux is *easier* than porting to "the Real Thing". I've even played with BSDI some, and found porting things to it to be comparable to porting things to Linux. >|> However, I also agree that if a user is having problems installing the >|> software, then (to a point) the installation process could be better. It's >|> a hard problem, though. > >One word: SLS Some people seem to be having problems even with that. I've never played with it myself, so I have no idea how easy it is to deal with. >|> Microsloth doesn't know how to delete code, only how to add code. Code that >|> is buggy and slow. > >EXACTLY Which is why I run DOS for one, and only one, thing: games. >|> >It literally has prolonged the >|> >life of my machine. I don't use X, as I don't have quite the memory for it, >|> >but if I got 8MB instead of 4, I'd be all set. > >I have 8 megs, I'm choking back the tears. Try running X, emacs, a compile >or 2 and Xtank and watch it swap! Obviously if you run enough CPU-intensive things, your system will bog. But you should try doing all those things under System Vr4. You might be lucky if your system doesn't crash on you under those conditions. >|> 386 to a 33 MHz 486). Even so, Linux hauls, *especially* on a 486. And it >|> is as stable as a rock. I haven't managed to crash it *once* while doing > >Me too, I haven't been able to crash linux, and I think it would take a few >minutes of work even if I TRIED Yup. Some things will just bring any Unix box down, e.g. "while ( 1 ) fork();", but that's not something particular to Linux. >|> normal Unix things. The only time it locked up on me was when I was playing >|> with Dosemu (word of warning: don't try bringing up Jetfighter II under it. >|> :-). I'm posting this from my Linux box. No problems. Most things >|> compile right out of the box. A few things (BSD things, in particular) >|> need a little coaxing, but it's not bad. Not bad at all. > >Well, usually it's just symlinking some #includes in from /usr/include/linux, Or using -I/usr/include/bsd... >but tell >a secretary to do that. Linux is for those who want power and are willing >to pay in sweat I agree. But how many secretaries are going to be compiling things? Most of them will want to run word processors and the like. Such applications, if written properly, should be easier to use (and faster, and more efficient, etc.) under Linux than under DOS or Windoze, if only because Linux is a *real* operating system, not some kludge put together by MicroSloth. > KsH (no sig yet) -- Kevin Brown kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com This is your .signature virus: < begin 644 .signature (9V]T8VAA(0K0z end > This is your .signature virus on drugs: <> Any questions? ------------------------------ From: copeland@sdf.lonestar.org (Charles Copeland) Subject: linux docs? Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 03:52:58 GMT I heard a while back that full documentation for linux was almost complete. Is this done? If so, what is the file name and where is it available? -- ************************************************************************** * copeland@sdf.lonestar.org * ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: johnsonm@calypso.oit.unc.edu (Michael K. Johnson) Subject: Re: From your friends at UNIXWorld Date: 14 Aug 1993 15:25:50 GMT In article kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) writes: Having ported a number of things to System Vr4, I can tell you flat out that porting to Linux is *easier* than porting to "the Real Thing". Agreed. Yup. Some things will just bring any Unix box down, e.g. "while ( 1 ) fork();", but that's not something particular to Linux. Yes it is -- It won't crash linux. There are limits on how many processes any user can have. For instance, the .profile and .bashrc distributed with SLS just keep calling each other. I didn't notice this. When my user logged in, he got "fork(): try again". I logged in as root on another terminal and hardly noticed any performance problems while I looked for his first shell and killed it, killing the whole process group. No, "while (1) fork();" doesn't do much damage under Linux... :-) michaelkjohnson ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via: Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Misc Digest ******************************