From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 04:20:41 EDT Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #60 Linux-Misc Digest #60, Volume #1 Fri, 27 Aug 93 04:20:41 EDT Contents: Re: 3-button mouse enable... (John Keane) has anyone done booted a diskless Sun 3 from Linux? (Charles Hedrick) Re: NT versus Linux (Kevin Brown) Re: WABI available on Linux or not (Gregory Gulik) Re: Bashing Peter MacDonald (Ian McCuaig) Re: Linux and Corporate America (Per Abrahamsen) Mail Order Linux Workstations (Edwin Tisdale) Re: Mitsuimi CD comes up on the first try :-) (Jim Paradis) Unsubscribe (Ben Lippolt) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: keane@athos.rutgers.edu (John Keane) Subject: Re: 3-button mouse enable... Date: 23 Aug 93 16:17:46 GMT I finally got my cheapo $9.95 3-button mouse working correctly by putting it into Mouse Systems mode. Thanks to the author of the "NOSEY" program which helped identify the problem. _John_ ------------------------------ From: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick) Subject: has anyone done booted a diskless Sun 3 from Linux? Date: 24 Aug 93 19:18:03 GMT One of our faculty is interested in using a diskless Sun as an X display. For $600 you can get a machine that has a bigger display than most people can afford for a PC. The problem is that diskless suns require RARP and TFTP servers to boot. RARP is not a pure TCP/IP protocol. Does anyone have any experience booting a diskless Sun, or know of an RARP server? ------------------------------ From: kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) Subject: Re: NT versus Linux Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 02:34:09 GMT In article <1993Aug26.174430.23051@fcom.cc.utah.edu> terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C) writes: >In article <746268510.AA04295@gccs.fido.imp> Enrico.Scotoni@p46.f520.n301.z2.fido.imp.com (Enrico Scotoni) writes: >>I completely agree: What the heck does the UI (graphical or not) have to >>do with the OS. It really has to be the choice of the user WHICH UI he >>wants to use (writing his own UI included). So, having an integrated GUI >>(generally spoken: Having any UI integrated into the OS) is a bug and NOT >>a feature. > >False. > >(1) Abstraction of interface from video hardware from applications > means a good video driver in the kernel is a win. Knowledge of > the video hardware can be shared between multiple applications > (X, PostScript, MGR, DOSEM, etc.) rather than coded into each > one. This saves reinventing the line draw each time. Yup. However, this isn't a GUI, it's a specialized device driver that is designed to be used *by* GUIs. >(2) Internationalization for Localization requires the ability to > at *least* display alternate fonts (ISO8859-1 through ISO8859-9). > This requires a more general interface. For full support of > internationalization, support must be provided for Kanji, Katakana, > Hirugana, etc. (large glyph set written languages -- the alphabets > needed for the full written language don't fit in 8 bits) and > Hebrew, Arabic, Tamil, Devengari, etc. (ligatured languages which, > due to porr design of standards, can't be rendered from 8 bit > fonts even if they are coerced into 8 bits). Font cell rendering > is insufficient. As long as you're talking discrete characters, font cell rendering *is* sufficient, with the caveat that your font cell can be whatever size you deem fit (even variable) and that the underlying indexing method is able to support the number of characters in the font. I can't say much more than that, inasmuch as I don't know what the state of the art in multi-language support is. Suffice it to say that if one byte isn't enough to represent all your characters, two probably is. :-) >(3) The inability to restore modes in a panic situation, since things > like X servers and DOS emulators must be running to put the display > back into a known state using the cooperative model requires state > shadowing if the cooperation can't be had (for instance: running a > kernel debugger). The cooperative model also fails in DOSEMU when > it is (a) run under virtual consoles (because the DOSEM didn't set > the video modes, the application did, the DOSEM can't save and > restore them on the vast majority of hardware) and (b) run against > a pseudo video memory store to dislay the DOS session in an X > window. This sounds like a driver problem to me. More precisely, it sounds like a mechanism for registering your process with the driver is in order. Not really a problem, since the driver runs in kernel mode and can track which processes are doing what, and can discover who's trying to open it, close it, etc. In short, process registration is probably just a matter of putting the requisite code in the driver. >(4) An integrated GUI buys you a common "look-and-feel" across all your > applications -- thus reducing training costs, since training in one > application generalizes to others. The downside of this is that a particular common "look-and-feel" might be considered highly suboptimal compared to the other "look-and-feel"s available. I seem to recall that PC-GEOS has the user interface as a completely separate thing from the actual application code (it may even be changeable on the fly). As long as the look and feel of the user interface can be cleanly separated from the actual function of the program itself, an integrated GUI isn't particularly necessary. The user just decides which one he/she wants and goes with it. But this requires very careful design of the generic GUI API. X was, I believe, originally designed with GUI independence in mind, but they might not have gone quite far enough. >(5) NT's GUI is not integrated, it is a configuration option that is > only turned on by default, not required to be on for the system > to operate. It's a false comparison in any case. Yup. Of course, it's probably the only GUI available for NT... > Terry Lambert > terry@icarus.weber.edu -- Kevin Brown kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com This is your .signature virus: < begin 644 .signature (9V]T8VAA(0K0z end > This is your .signature virus on drugs: <> Any questions? ------------------------------ From: greg@serveme.chi.il.us (Gregory Gulik) Subject: Re: WABI available on Linux or not Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 20:36:11 GMT In article <25gh02$f8v@europa.eng.gtefsd.com> niemidc@oasis.gtefsd.com writes: > >It will also be very interesting to see how Wabi on Intel machines and various >brands of UN*X that support Wabi compare to >1) Win3.1 >2) Windows NoT >in performance! If it performs even remotely as well, I'd say that points to >Windows being very inefficiently coded relative to X-Windows. There was a front page article in InfoWorld in the last week or two that said that Windows applications run approximately 75% slower under Windows NT than under native Windows 3.1 On the other hand, there was another article a while ago in a magazine I don't remember, that said that Wabi ran applications about twice as fast as native Windows 3.1. The magazine used two identical 486/50's for the comparison. One running Windows 3.1, the other Solaris 2.1 and Wabi. Please let me know if I missed anything as this is all from memory. -greg -- Gregory A. Gulik Call Gagme, a public access greg@serveme.chi.il.us UNIX system at 312-282-8606 || gulik@rtsg.mot.com For information, drop a note to info@gagme.chi.il.us ------------------------------ From: imccuaig@nexus.yorku.ca (Ian McCuaig) Subject: Re: Bashing Peter MacDonald Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 05:10:06 GMT eds@VFL.Paramax.COM (Ed Skladany) writes: >It's amazing that some people keep bashing Peter MacDonald for problems >with SLS. SLS is not a perfect release, but it is the release responsible >for getting thousands of people started with Linux, including me. For this, >we owe Peter our gratitude. His product must have taken a lot of work, but >it's effectively free for the asking. The simple installation of Linux >is something that can always be improved upon, but Peter made it happen. >Yes, I know SLS is sometimes slow to upgrade to new tools releases, and >his distribution sometimes is lacking in completeness, but it's wonderful >considering the price. I certainly appreciate Peter's work. >Lighten up, grouches. If you're willing to devote the time to produce your >own binary Linux distribution that's better than SLS, then you have a right to >complain. Otherwise, just describe the problem objectively and keep the >childish remarks to yourself. Absolutely. As a Linux/Unix novice I would have never got my machine up and running without SLS. In the three weeks since I first installed I've posted several questions to c.o.l.help and ftp'd the odd thing, but SLS 1.03 with the docs and install scripts it comes with was fabulous. As easy as any commercial OS I've ever installed and almost as problem free. Good work. Ian McCuaig >-- >-- > Ed Skladany | Internet: eds@vfl.paramax.com > Paramax Systems, A Unisys Company | UUCP: ...!gvls1!eds > Valley Forge Laboratories | Box 517, Paoli, PA 19301 USA -- ================== This is not a .sig ------------------------------ From: abraham@iesd.auc.dk (Per Abrahamsen) Subject: Re: Linux and Corporate America Date: 27 Aug 1993 05:56:43 GMT >>>>> "Rick" == Rick Miller writes: Rick> So tell me... What's to stop them? Who will sue? You would. After having having bought RickOS from you, I would naturally give it away for free, as the GPL permits me to. Perhaps I would also merge your changes back into Linux. Thank you for your contribution :-). The only way you could stop me, would be to sue me. Hopefully the GPL would protect me. If you sold me a binary only copy of RickOS, I could sue you to get the source, as the GPL gives me the right to expect. ------------------------------ From: edwin@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Edwin Tisdale) Subject: Mail Order Linux Workstations Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 05:24:53 GMT Some time ago, we approached the manager of a little computer store near the UCLA campus and convinced him to install Linux on the PC-clones that he sells to us. This eliminates the work and risk involved in selecting the correct components then configuring Linux to work with them. We just take the system home, plug it in, turn it on and start working. If you are interested, please contact: 20/20 Technologies Computer Systems & Peripherals 1786 Westwood Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90024 Tel:(310) 441-8855 Fax:(310) 441-8869 They also have a toll free number 1-800-486-2020. Ask for Moujan Ahouraian and tell him that Bob Tisdale told you to call. I have no connection with 20/20 Technologies except as a satisfied customer. Their prices appear to be competitive with other local computer stores and they claim that they can match anyone's ADVERTIZED prices. Enjoy, Bob Tisdale (edwin@cs.ucla.edu) ------------------------------ From: paradis@sousa.ako.dec.com (Jim Paradis) Subject: Re: Mitsuimi CD comes up on the first try :-) Date: 26 Aug 1993 23:49:57 -0400 Vince Skahan (vince@victrola.wa.com) wrote: : With all the crap in c.o.l.*, I wanted to personally thank anybody who : had anything to do with the *FINE* Mitsuimi cd implementation that went : into 0.99-12 and also Linus for installing it in the default kernel : sources. Ditto! Great job! Compared with what else is out there, Linux offers far-and-away the BEST seamless integration of the diverse filesystem and device types! Back when I was running 386BSD, whenever I wanted to suck something off my "Prime Time Freeware" CDs, I'd have to boot up DOS, copy the files off the CD onto the DOS partition, boot 386BSD, then use mtools to get the files off the DOS partition onto the BSD partition... With the Mitsumi driver, it's one-stop shopping! Plus, if I *wanted* to put something on or take something off my DOS partition, all I need to is access my /dos filesystem 8-) [yes, I still have DOS on my machine, mainly because some of my favorite packages -- Finale and Corel -- run only under Windows...] -- Jim Paradis (paradis@tallis.enet.dec.com) The purpose of time is to keep everything from happening at once. It's not working. ------------------------------ From: B.J.Lippolt@research.ptt.nl (Ben Lippolt) Subject: Unsubscribe Date: 27 Aug 1993 03:25:07 -0400 Reply-To: B.J.Lippolt@research.ptt.nl Please remove me from the Linux-Misc mailing list. Ben Lippolt (B.J.Lippolt@research.ptt.nl) ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via: Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Misc Digest ******************************