From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 06:13:14 EST Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #275 Linux-Misc Digest #275, Volume #1 Fri, 5 Nov 93 06:13:14 EST Contents: g++ resource requirements (Andrzej Bieszczad) Re: linux - alpha port? (Frank Lofaro) Re: Hurd status and call for volunteers (Donald J. Becker) Re: XFree86 2.0 VGA16, anyone runs it successfully? (Christian Schlittchen) Linux User Group Switzerland ? (Norbert Kuemin) Re: 2MB vs 1MB on 801 S3 ? (Nan Zou) Linux Slackware on Disk/Tape $44.99 (Stephen Balbach) Does Linux SLS support SLIP ? (Stephen Heilbronner) Re: linux - alpha port? (Joachim Sprave) Re: Hurd status and call for volunteers (Michael I Bushnell) Re: SVGA Text Modes and Recompiling Kernal (Marc ter Horst) Re: MS Windows for LINUX ? (Christopher Etz) Re: e-Mail distribution (Michael Chapman) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: andrzej@bnr.ca (Andrzej Bieszczad) Subject: g++ resource requirements Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 02:56:58 GMT I wonder whether 8MB of RAM is not sufficient to compile a simple C++ code (50 line) with the use of streams, strings and some math. I have compiled a one statement program ("Hello Word" type), so g++ works on my machine. However, all resources are devoured when compiling a bit larger programs and the disk is thrashing constantly. I waited 10-15 minutes before kill the compilation. Is g++ really so resource hungry or it is something else? I am using the 2.4.5 version and do not have any problems with gcc. My environment: 1 console, X with fvwm, rxvt and rclock. More than 5 MB of memory is available (as reported by "top"). -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Andrzej Bieszczad >> WELCOME TO THE MACHINE - Pink Floyd << | | Carleton University, Systems & Comp. Eng., Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6 | | Bell-Northern Research, Ltd., P.O. Box 3511 C, Ottawa, Canada K1Y 4H7 | | Phone: (CU) (613) 788-2600 ext. 5740 (BNR) (613) 763-2259 | | Email: andrzej@sce.carleton.ca andrzej@BNR.CA | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! The opinions expressed here are solely my own and do not reflect the ! ! opinions of Bell Northern Research, Northern Telecom or Carleton ! ! University. ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ From: ftlofaro@lil-ed.CS.UNLV.EDU (Frank Lofaro) Subject: Re: linux - alpha port? Date: 05 Nov 1993 04:38:23 GMT In article <2bc1pn$f3d@soho.lunetix.de> mm@lunetix.de (M. Mueller) writes: Steven Yampolsky (ssy1538@draper.com) wrote: : As far as I know, the very first purpose of creating Linux in the first place : was to have a UNIX like operating system for people who cannot afford expensive : machines like DEC alpha's. Personally, a 486-66 is all I can afford for a : while. Linux is the OS for people who can't affor expencive workstations. : If you can afford an alpha workstation, you can afford ULTRIX that comes with : it. No! Using Linux means to have an UNIX-like Operatingsystem WITH SOURCES! Even if I could afford an DEC alpha, I couldn't afford an ULTRIX Source LICENSE! That's why I'd run Linux on an ALPHA! Just my 0.02. Martin -- Well, first off, if I remember correctly, DEC ALPHA's come with OSF/1, not ULTRIX (I heard you can also get VMS (blech!) with it if you want (?)). Second of all, if it were a contest betweem ULTRIX and Linux, Linux would win hands down. So would almost any other OS though. ULTRIX just plain _SUCKS_! I don't know about OSF/1, I heard it might be decent, but still Linux's free source, and efficient, clean, non BSD/SysV infected (hence relatively free of cruft), make it the OS of choice, IMO. ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss From: becker@super.org (Donald J. Becker) Subject: Re: Hurd status and call for volunteers Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 22:23:52 GMT In article <2b7jsk$eu7@ursula.ee.pdx.edu>, Marcus Daniels wrote: >Read mib's paper of the Hurd architecture before making inappropriate >comparisions. If you are talking about the early Hurd architecture paper, yes I read it. _YEARS_ ago. >I'll take the FSF's word for it if they think they can get more >done on the kernel in isolation. It is just one component of the >O.S., after all. In the long run the fact that device drivers, filesystems, >etc, developed outside the kernel will enable more users to aid >in development. I used to think that a microkernel would allow easy development with only a slight loss in performance. I now know that the hard parts of driver development are the "thinking" and "actually writing it" phases, not the "putting it into the kernel" part. Add to this the evidence that microkernels are significantly slower than monolithic kernels, and microkernels don't make a lot of sense. >Linux may have thousands of users, but there aren't more than a few kernel >developers. The marginal benefit of a few part time developers >early on has to be weighted against the heavy burden of support. >I'm amazed that Linus, Eric, and H lu, Donald and the rest >have the patience they do. It certainly isn't anyone's place to >expect it from them, or the FSF, just for the sake calming everyones >curiousity. You sound as if you are advocating that development be done in private, only releasing the perfected final product. I think The Net has changed the way large system development can be done: we now have the freedom to let widespread groups work together on a project. [[ Fade in AT&T advertisement music... ]] Have you ever worked until late at night, put the resulting alpha software in a public location, and then read a bug report and suggested fix from halfway around the world using the bedside laptop the next morning? I have. The point here is that having people wait for neat new vaporware isn't nearly as useful as having people use and improve something that's really pretty much as useful as that neat new idea. I'll repeat the oft-used example of the BSD shared library implementation: early-on the BSD supporters ridiculed the Linux single-version shared library implementation and proudly stated that BSD would have a far superior shared library implementation. Later the Linux jump-table library was released. The BSD people claimed that it was all a time-wasting mistake, and that Linux would be stuck with something inferior to BSD's _dynamic_ shared libraries (coming RSN). Today Linux has dynamically-linked shared libraries. The last I heard the BSD crowd was thinking of using the Linux implementation. I think this is a close analog to the Hurd vs. Linux issue. The GNU project made a mistake when it rejected Linux as an ugly step-sister. (hmmm, gotta watch those mixed metaphors.) I see a future where people say "GNU? I've think I've heard of that -- isn't it the name of the Linux license?" -Don Becker, taking a break before writing another Linux device driver. -- Donald Becker becker@super.org IDA Supercomputing Research Center 17100 Science Drive, Bowie MD 20715 301-805-7482 ------------------------------ From: j05j@zfn.uni-bremen.de (Christian Schlittchen) Subject: Re: XFree86 2.0 VGA16, anyone runs it successfully? Date: 4 Nov 1993 16:41:09 GMT umlin000@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Zhuo Er Lin) writes: >I have a cirrus VGA card. When I tried VGA16, it starts up as Mono ! >There is no color at all and is slower then the MONO server. It works for me, but it is very slow. Much slower than the svga- server. I use a Trident 9000 card. ------------------------------ From: ZAD_KUEMIN@TRZCL1 (Norbert Kuemin) Subject: Linux User Group Switzerland ? Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 07:17:20 GMT Does anyone know if there exist a LUG Swizterland ? If no, does anyone has some inetresse ? If yes send an EMAIL to norbert.kuemin@alcatel.ch =======================================+======================================= +----------V----------+ Eltech. ING HTL|EMAIL: norbert.kuemin@alcatel.ch | A L C A T E L | Norbert Kuemin |DEC: PSI%(0228)4795123920::ZAD_KUEMIN +---------------------+ Alcatel STR |X.400: c=CH a=arCom p=Alcatel S T R CH-8804 Au/ZH | s=Kuemin g=Norbert =======================================+======================================= ------------------------------ From: nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix Subject: Re: 2MB vs 1MB on 801 S3 ? Date: 5 Nov 1993 01:40:13 -0600 kem@prl.ufl.edu (Kelly Murray) writes: >wongda@eecg.toronto.edu (Daniel Y.H. Wong) writes: >|> >I am currenty running Xfree 2.0 S3-server, on a Actix GraphicsENGINE >|> >32 plus with 1 MB dram (801 at-bus card). >|> >I was just wondering if anyone has a clue to how much performanse gain >|> >it will be to updrade to 2 MB...? [...] >|> >Anyone have some benchmarks on 1MB vs 2MB in 1024x768 mode ? >|> > >|> >My card is good for 57000 Xstones on my 486-33DX, 16MB. >|> >( This test was done on the X386 1.2 S3-server ). >Additional memory should not affect the performance of the card. If you have more memory, wouldn't that give you more font and bitmap caching ability? I also have a 801 with 1MB and I wonder how much adding another 1MB will impact performance. I'm not interested in high resolution since my monitor can't handle it anyway. But if the memory can be used for backing-store or more efficient caching then it might be worth it to get it. -- Nan Zou | Bitnet : nan@ksuvm Dept. of EECE | Internet : nan@math.ksu.edu Kansas State University | nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu #include | "Linux -- The choice of a GNU generation" ------------------------------ From: stephen@clark.net (Stephen Balbach) Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help Subject: Linux Slackware on Disk/Tape $44.99 Date: 5 Nov 1993 02:37:22 -0500 Linux on Disk/Tape Mail Order Linux is a 32-bit multi-tasking UNIX OS for the PC. 32-bit multi-user/multi-tasking true Unix OS TCP/IP Networking GNU C/C++/Obj-C + other languages X Windows + Development Printed Documentation available All source available For a complete 23k text description of Linux and all of it features and capabilities send email to linux-info@clark.net and a mail-reflector will respond (INFO-SHEET). ===== Full User Version o Slackware Linux version 0.99p13, Slackware version 1.1.0 or most recent Full set includes disks A1-A14,X1-X5,XAP1-XAP2,XV1-XV2,E1-E5,F1,Y1,bootdisk,bloader,rescue Full set 3.5" 33 disks $44.99 + $5 S/H (USPS 2nd Day) Full set DOS QIC-40 tape $24.99 + $3 S/H (USPS 2nd Day) linux-slack@clark.net for complete description of Slackware Full install: 120+ MBs ===== Developers Version o Slackware Linux version 0.99p13, Slackware version 1.1.0 or most recent Full set includes all disks mentioned above plus: IV1-IV2,OI1-OI3,OOP1,TCL1,XD1-XD3 Full set 3.5" 43 disks $54.99 + $5 S/H (USPS 2nd Day) linux-slack@clark.net for more info on Slackware Full install: (estimated) 160+ MBs ===== Linux Mail-Order Books: o "Linux Installation and Getting Started" (c) Copyright 1993 Matt Welsh 150+ pg. laser printed professionally bound PostScript manual. Excellent new user guide. $15 with a set or $20 + $3 S/H For a description of this book send mail to linux-welsh@clark.net ===== Harware Compatibility Sheet * Send mail to linux-compat@clark.net for a Hardware Compatibility Sheet For all mail reflectors mentioned above send mail to linux-all@clark.net ===== All releases include up to date FAQ's, META-FAQ, HOWTO's and most documentation covering Linux. Always shipping the most recent version direct from the net. All Linux material is freely available on the Internet and on many BBS's. You may FTP Linux and the books from TSX-11.MIT.EDU or SUNSITE.UNC.EDU Unless otherwise stated all Linux software is (c) Copyright under the GNU GPL liscence. Credit to Patrick Volkerding for Slackware (see the mail-refectors for more info). SUPPORT: If you have problems installing Linux phone and e-mail support is provided. WARRANTY: Damaged disks promptly replaced. TERMS: Check (5-day hold), money-order, cashier check, bank wire. Credit Card orders via voice phone (No e-mail CC#'s please!) Mastercard, Visa, American Express Made payable to Stephen Balbach or Clark Internet Services. All orders shipped USPS 2nd-day 1st Class Priority Mail in sturdy 6"x6" cardboard box. All prices valid for one month after date of posting unless otherwise superceded. Please email for latest price. CONTACT: Stephen Balbach 5437 Enberend Terrace Columbia, MD 21045 (410) 740-1157 stephen@clark.net Clark Internet Services, home of ClarkNet public dial-up Internet services local to Washington D.C./Baltimore/Northen VA. Send mail to all-info@clark.net for more info about ClarkNet. Full FTP, USENET, SLIP, Clarinet and more... -- Stephen Balbach . Clark Internet Services . Washington D.C./Balt. metro area . mail all-info@clark.net . SLIP/PPP/UUCP/CSLIP . FAX 410-730-9765 Linux on Disk . 32 disks $45 . linux-all@clark.net . voice 410-740-1157 Time Card . Electronic Punch-Card System DOS . email stephen@clark.net ------------------------------ From: heilbron@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Stephen Heilbronner) Subject: Does Linux SLS support SLIP ? Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 10:13:29 GMT Could s.b please let me know whether a Linux machine can be set up as a SLIP server and/or client ? Thx very much, Stephen -- Stephen Heilbronner - Technische Universitaet Muenchen - Germany Email: heilbron@informatik.tu-muenchen.de ------------------------------ From: sprave@gonzo.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Joachim Sprave) Subject: Re: linux - alpha port? Date: 5 Nov 1993 08:59:20 GMT In article <1993Nov4.204547.19144@draper.com>, ssy1538@draper.com (Steven Yampolsky) writes: |> [...] |> As far as I know, the very first purpose of creating Linux in the first |> place |> was to have a UNIX like operating system for people who cannot afford |> expensive |> machines like DEC alpha's. Personally, a 486-66 is all I can afford for |> a |> while. Linux is the OS for people who can't affor expencive |> workstations. |> |> If you can afford an alpha workstation, you can afford ULTRIX that comes |> with |> it. |> As far as I know, DEC plans to place Alpha in the high end PC-market. There is a new Alpha with PCI interface on-chip just coming out. I think if you can afford Pentium now, you will be able to buy Alpha next year. Just IMO. joe /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Joachim Sprave sprave@ls11.informatik.uni-dortmund.de | | //////\\ | | Univ. Dortmund / \ 44221 Dortmund | | Dept. CS _| _ _ |_ Tel.: +49-231-755 4678 | | Systems Analysis |.|-(.)-(.)+.| Fax : +49-231-755 2450 | \------------------ \| J |/ -----------------------------------/ \ --- / \ / "####" ------------------------------ From: mib@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell) Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: Hurd status and call for volunteers Date: 05 Nov 1993 08:51:57 GMT In article <1993Nov4.131929.26695@vlsi.polymtl.ca> hallu@info.polymtl.ca (Louis-D. Dubeau) writes: Michael I Bushnell (mib@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu) wrote: : The `Hurd' isn't just a name. What it was that we chose to do was : something that couldn't have used much of a start from anything other : than what we did: Mach. We don't use bsdss either; that would be : equally monolithic. And the Hurd is hardly from scratch, given Mach. I know Hurd isn't just a name. It's good to be innovative but you don't have to bring all the innovations at once. You can start from a single-server and divide the functionnality between several servers later. In the process you can also add new functionnality. You wouldn't have started from scratch if you had ported Linux or some other free OS to Mach and started from there instead of what you did. A judgement call here had to be made, and, in my technical judgement, too much time would have been spent making that single-server that all (in the long run) would become unused code. At the time it seemed likely that CMU would produce and release bsdss. They did so, but quickly stopped distribution thanks to the USL lawsuit. Now work is once again moving (I think) on bsdss. Modulo the lawsuit, this would have provided a single server for people who wanted one without taking our time to produce it. As for incrementally pulling things out of a single server, it sounds like a nice idea, but it actually doesn't work too well. : It's the problem not with bsdss but with the other single-servers. : bsdss is based on NetBSD, and while it isn't stable, it will be soon. : (There have been volunteers, incidentally, who have time, equipment, : and the necessary licenses.) OK then I was wrong, the picture is: bsdss is unstable and the other BSD based servers need to have some licences. That's right. : However: the FSF's goals are not self-aggrandizement. Linux being out : is a Good Thing for the FSF, not the other way around. So, whether : there is a free OS from the FSF or not, the FSF's goals are helped by : there being a free OS. Like I said in an other message (posted in an other thread), whether we like it or not there will be a contest between Hurd and Linux when Hurd will come out. I know the FSF don't seek self-aggrandizement, but it nevertheless has some influence over free software development. Of course there will be a contest. May the best OS win! But, keep in mind that unlike traditional contests, all three OS's will be learning from each other and directly borrowing code. This will be a Good Thing, not a Bad Thing. Obviously I'd like to see the Hurd "win", because I have some interest in seeing my work widely used. But my goals aren't purely selfish, and if Linux or NetBSD is truly superior to the Hurd, then they should be used more. As was pointed out elsewhere, there are other things that are important from a longer perspective, among them multiprocessors and distributed systems, things that are very hard with monolithic kernels. -- +1 617 623 3248 (H) | He shall give his angels charge over you, +1 617 253 8568 (W) -+- to keep you in all your ways. 1105 Broadway | They shall bear you in their hands, Somerville, MA 02144 | lest you dash your foot against a stone. ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin From: mht@nuclint.nl (Marc ter Horst) Subject: Re: SVGA Text Modes and Recompiling Kernal Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 09:20:24 GMT In article <2b8ab0$l2n@unidus.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de> engels@darkstar.frop.org () writes: >From: engels@darkstar.frop.org () >Subject: Re: SVGA Text Modes and Recompiling Kernal >Date: 3 Nov 1993 13:05:36 GMT >Joseph W. Vigneau (joev@bigwpi.WPI.EDU) wrote: >: Just a couple of questions: >: 1) When I boot from a floppy, I can select what SVGA text mode to >: use. I can't do this when I boot from the hard drive. How can I do >: this? >In /etc/lilo/config you will find the line 'vga = normal'. Replace >'normal' with 'ask'. >: 2) How do I recompile the kernal? I don't plan on doing it real >: soon, but I would really like some info on it. >Haven't done it, but the Linux FAQ contains links to the answers. Try this : cd /usr/src/linux make config ( to select the driver options for the kernel (e.g. scsi) make clean ( clear out any old compiler output ) make dep ( set up dependancies) make [zImage|zdisk] (these probably are the 2 most used options) You might also want to edit the Makefile to set defaults for vga or bootfloppy. >engelsg@uni-duesseldorf.de Marc ------------------------------ From: christop@Ingres.COM (Christopher Etz) Subject: Re: MS Windows for LINUX ? Date: 5 Nov 93 09:32:35 GMT kwh@cs.brown.edu (Kwun Han) writes: : In article biewesch@caladan.restena.lu (Romain Biewesch) writes: : I don't know if this question was in this group before, but I want to : know if I can use MS Windows programms in the LINUX X-windows : environment. : : As far as I know I have pointed out, I can run DOS progs out of the : environment in a virtuel DOS session. : : I hope I don't have to quit LINUX , reboot the system under DOS and : start MS Windows to use these Windows-Progs. This would be boring and : would expect me to quit a good OS to run MS-Windows. : : Stay tuned, some persons in the net is working on something call WINE : (win emulate?) so that one can run windows binaries directly from : Linux in X. : : Kwun For the meantime you can run Windows 3.0 in *real* mode from dosemu. But you should probably shut down X before. Unfortunately, Windows 3.1 and any programs that need more than real mode don't run. :-( Christopher ------------------------------ From: mchapman@eis.k8.rt.bosch.de (Michael Chapman) Subject: Re: e-Mail distribution Date: 5 Nov 93 09:50:43 GMT Reply-To: mchapman@eis.k8.rt.bosch.de In article 752317236@kk188, conrozi@kk188.ericsson.se (Roman Zielinski TT/TSM) writes: >Does it exist a mail server for linux somewhere, e.g. to get some fresh >packages when you yave no access to world-wide FTP (like in my secure >network)???? Primary I'm looking for X386 2.0. > You can always get one of the following ftp mail servers to ftp the stuff for you and mail it to you. There are probably lots of others but these are the only ones I know of. A mail with HELP in the body should generate a mail back to you with some instructions as to how to use it. ftpmail@rus.uni-stuttgart.de ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com ftpmail@grasp.insa-lyon.fr In addition there are numerous sites which have there own e-mail server which carry Linux stuff. There is a FAQ somewhere with a list. The one I use is 'archive-server@Germany.EU.net' which carries a mirror of 'sunsite' among other things. (Again an e-mail with HELP in it works wonders). When using these you had better make sure that the your mailer puts a From: field into the message which is correct. If in doubt add a Reply-To: header with your correct e-mail address. ============================================================================== Mike Chapman e-mail: mchapman@eis.k8.rt.bosch.de (office) fax: (+49) 7121/35-1746 Mike.Chapman@isis.seicom.de (home) tel: (+49) 7121/35-1662 (office) ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via: Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Misc Digest ******************************