From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 09:22:01 EST Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #263 Linux-Misc Digest #263, Volume #1 Tue, 2 Nov 93 09:22:01 EST Contents: Re: Tcl7.0 / Tk3.3 (Jay Carlson) Re: SLS/Linux ad in BYTE! (M. Mueller) Re: Need a printcap for hplaserjet2p (Dennis Lou) Re: LGX (Fall) CDROM review. (Urban Koistinen) Re: Textmode charset (Wolfgang Thiel) Re: Tcl7.0 / Tk3.3 (Basil P. Duval EPFL - CRPP 1015 Lausanne CH) Re: Where can I find flexfax ? (Michael Chapman K8/EIS1. Tel. 1662) Re: What's the best Unix (David Simmons) Re: Bogomip (Miguel Alvarez Blanco) Re: SLS flaming ! (Miguel Alvarez Blanco) Re: LINUX hischool project (David Simmons) Re: Linux Distributions (Jeff Epler) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Crossposted-To: comp.lang.tcl From: nop@orodruin.ccs.neu.edu (Jay Carlson) Subject: Re: Tcl7.0 / Tk3.3 Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 05:14:58 GMT In article <2b298f$5m7@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> oreillym@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Michael O'Reilly) writes: Robert J. Willard (rjw9917@bcstec.ca.boeing.com) wrote: : Is anyone currently porting Tcl7.0 and Tk3.3 to Linux? WHat port? just tgrab sources, and compile... However, this will not result in a tcl that will pass all the regression tests, at least with extended TCL. It's a little more tricky than that. I'm going to upload my ALPHA version of shared libraries for extended tk/tcl 3.3/7.0 on Wednesday. This is solely for evaluation and comment. I've done a number of controversial things, especially involving the shared library tables, so I would appreciate public feedback on what you think I've done wrong. :-) (I'm not going to make the same mistake I did with the 3.2/6.7 release; the archive will be removed from the archive within a week or so.) -- Jay Carlson nop@io.com nop@ccs.neu.edu Flat text is just *never* what you want. ---stephen p spackman ------------------------------ From: mm@lunetix.de (M. Mueller) Subject: Re: SLS/Linux ad in BYTE! Date: 2 Nov 1993 00:44:06 GMT Matthew Dillon (dillon@moonshot.west.oic.com) wrote: : >In article stock@dutsh7.tudelft.nl (Robert Stockmann) writes: : >tzs@stein3.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes: : >>> the product as well as not to mislead people into thinking that Linux is : >>> only available as a commercial product. : > : >>So? What do either of these have to do with an ad that basically says : >>"We sell such-and-such"? Advertisements are not the customary place to : >>... : > : >Well I want to mention here, that acces to Internet cost also a lot : >of money. Here are some prices from NLnet (Dutch service company): : > : >connection: $15,= a month : >netnews : $15,= a month : >... : In the bay area, a FULL TIME slip connection to the internet costs around : $80/mo (plus between $0 and $400 initial startup, depending on the : provider), and there are no per-packet or volume fees. : Time-connected fees are ok for part-time slip connections, but anybody : who charges you per-packet or volume fees for SLIP or PPP is taking you : for a ride. : -Matt You're lucky! Anyone using the Internet in Germany for commercial purpose, that means, mentioning your Email-address on your business-papers have to pay to the "German EUnet": Base : $ 30,= per month NetNews : $ 37,= per month Email : $ 15,= per month national Traffic (no limit) : $148,= per month international Traffic (20 MB) : $168,= per month my local Slip Provider : $152,= per month (14.4KBPS Line 24h) my phone-company : $418,= per month (10h/day line usage) ------------------ Total: $968,= per month What do you say now?! In Germany the only provider of commercial Internet use is the EUnet GmbH in Dortmund. There are other providers but they restrict their service to educational or private use. That's the reason why only big companies or Universities have Intenet-Access here in Germany (We're the only small one :-)). Yours Martin -- ============================================================================= Martin Mueller | Kennen Sie schon das LINUX-Anwender- | Email: mm@lunetix.de | Handbuch ? (finger linux@lunetix.de) | Tel.: +49 30 6227300 | Ab Januar in der Version 3.0! | Fax : +49 30 6221075 ============================================================================= ------------------------------ From: dlou@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Dennis Lou) Subject: Re: Need a printcap for hplaserjet2p Date: 2 Nov 93 07:05:25 GMT In article <2b4i9u$i52@genesis.ait.psu.edu> wilcox@kpw104.rh.psu.edu (Ken Wilcox) writes: >We are trying to set up a network laser printer and need the printcap entry >and or filter for the HPljIIp or something like it. > >Thanks in advance, > >-Ken Wilcox > Well, I tried to mail this to you, but it bounced. Here's the error that came back to me, as well as the message I tried to send. BTW, shouldn't this question be on comp.os.linux.help? deliver: delivery error on host kpw104. Delivery to these addresses failed: wilcox Reason(s) for failure: "wilcox": No permissions for that context deliver: can't open /usr/adm/deliver.errlog for writing: Permission denied 554 ... unknown mailer error 1 -=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=- To: wilcox@kpw104.rh.psu.edu (Ken Wilcox) Reply-To: dlou@ece.ucsd.edu Subject: Re: Need a printcap for hplaserjet2p In article <2b4i9u$i52@genesis.ait.psu.edu>, you write: |> We are trying to set up a network laser printer and need the printcap entry |> and or filter for the HPljIIp or something like it. |> |> Thanks in advance, |> |> -Ken Wilcox |> I haven't really tested this thoroughly, so please let me know if it works. printcap: lp:\ lp=/dev/lp1:\ sd=/usr/spool/lp1:\ of=/usr/spool/lp1/hpof:\ mx#0:\ lf=/usr/spool/lp1/lpd-errs:sh Here's /usr/spool/lp1/hpof #!/bin/bash # echo -e '\033%-12345X@PJL comment' # universal exit language # echo -e '@PJL RESET' # reset to defaults # echo -e '@PJL ENTER LANGUAGE = PCL' # USE pcl echo -e -n '\033E' # reset echo -e -n '\033&k2G' # translate LF->CR+LF cat # copy stdin to stdout echo -e -n '\033*s1F' # flush all pages echo -e -n '\033E' # reset the printer again. # echo -e '\033%-12345X@PJL comment' # universal exit language exit 0 # exit -- Dennis Lou || "But Yossarian, what if everyone thought that way?" dlou@ucsd.edu || "Then I'd be crazy to think any other way!" [backbone]!ucsd!dlou |+==================================================== dlou@ucsd.BITNET |Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak went to my high school. ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: aus.computers.linux From: md85-epi@hemul.nada.kth.se (Urban Koistinen) Subject: Re: LGX (Fall) CDROM review. Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 09:28:31 GMT In <1993Nov1.165317.22836@rosevax.rosemount.com> grante@hydro.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes: :Rick (pclink@qus102.qld.tne.oz.au) wrote: :: I've been working with the LGX CDROM for a for a fortnight now, and I'd :: thought I'd share my experiences. :[...] :: The install script allows you a choice of installations - cd_dependant :: (1Mb), runtime (27Mb), complete (235Mb) and everything (700Mb). I :: installed the runtime system, with a view to customizing my system with :: the control panel, an application that allows you to selectively install :: packages. Some of the problems I encountered may have been due to this :: partial install - it's possible that users doing the complete install :: would have less trouble. :I think you're right. Comparing my experience with ta complete :install with another's experience with a runtime-then-selectively-install :setup, I had fewer problems. Of course you've got to have 235MB to spare :if you're going to do a complete install then delete what you don't use. :The main problems I had were in trying to rebuild the kernel. I finally :grabbed the real pl13 soruces from sunsite. I had a lot of trouble with the runtime-then-selectively-install. Then I switched to the CD-rom-dependent installation, remade the tree so that utilities I know I use often are on the hard disk. Also, when a program complain it can't write to the cd-rom I move the offending directory to the hard disk. (I had to do this for metafont.) This work a lot better. The keymaps do not work well, Slackware is better for this. Emacs do not accept movement by arrows. Storing the sources expanded on the CD-rom is stupid me thinks, especially since I could not compile emacs with the sources on the CD-rom. I measured how much space the sources would need when tarred and gzipped. 98 Mbyte compared to 422 expanded. (the latter with du but the manual seem to confirm this) I would be much happier with compressed source. Also, if the sources were compressed, maybe essential games like fortune, atc and nethack would fit too. And utilities like unzip. I have not been able to connect to yggdrasil.com to get help so the comment about making the /usr/spool/mail directory world writable helped me. (Thanks!) Things that did work well with cd-dependent are: lpr X (mostly) TeX Conclusion: Stay clear of the run-time installation if you can. -- Urban Koistinen - md85-epi@nada.kth.se Stop software patents, interface copyrights: contact lpf@uunet.uu.net ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin From: upsyf173@psydiff2.uni-bielefeld.de (Wolfgang Thiel) Subject: Re: Textmode charset Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 08:36:37 GMT muenx@heike.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Holger Muenx) writes: >Printing some files containing characters of the IBM charset (blocks and >lines and suchs) yields funny results on a Linux virtual console. The >characters seem to be mapped by some scheme to other characters. However, >it's not just a 8bit->7bit conversion. ... >What's going on? How can I fix this without changing the files? Is it possible >at all to display the IBM charset on a virtual console? The following is copied from the minicom Install file: The Linux console only maps 1-to-1 in a special mode. Therefore you need to make a special termcap entry in /etc/termcap that initializes the console on startup: mc|minicom|mc80x25|termcap entry for minicom on the console:\ :is=\E(U\E[m\E>\E[4;20l:\E[?8;25h\E[?1;5;6;7l:\ :rs=\E(B\E[m\E>\E[4;20l:\E[?7;8;25h\E[?1;5;6l:\ :bc=:as=:ae=:am=:vb=\E(B\007\E(U:\ :tc=console: To use this information instead of the normal 'console' information, minicom has to be invoked with the '-t mc' option (meaning use TERM=mc instead of the normal TERM environment variable). And, in my /etc/profile I have added the lines: if [ "$TERM" = console ] then MINICOM="-l -con -tmc" ; export MINICOM fi So when I log in on the console I can use minicom in full color full ANSI mode to call all kinds of BBS's and the like! ------------------------------ From: duval@elpp1.epfl.ch (Basil P. Duval EPFL - CRPP 1015 Lausanne CH) Subject: Re: Tcl7.0 / Tk3.3 Date: 2 Nov 1993 11:24:12 GMT Reply-To: DUVAL@ELPP1.EPFL.CH Hello World, I am also looking at the tcl, tk business, and would like to know if the sharable libraries for these versions are going to become available. I got the version posted to Sunsite etc, but could never manage to create the sharable libraries as suggested possible in the Makefile. I think this would be a godsend platform for tcl/tk learning and development, and would really LOVE to see a fully functioning version on my Linux box. For the sheer hell of it, anyone making tclX and xf go in this environment would get a loud cheer from me. If tcl/tk is going to become popular, Linux is really going to be important. I think a little FAQ on how to get the whole suite of things up would be useful, but I dont't feel I have the expertise to so this myself. Hey, I am trying to learn tcl/tk/tclX and xf on Linux, and have run into so many brick walls on the compile side that I have lost steam. any comments via news or email welcome.. Basil P. DUVAL EPFL/CRPP 1015 Bassenges Lausanne, Switzerland Email: DUVAL@ELPP1.EPFL.CH ------------------------------ From: mchapman@eis.k8.rt.bosch.de (Michael Chapman K8/EIS1. Tel. 1662) Subject: Re: Where can I find flexfax ? Date: 2 Nov 93 12:49:58 GMT Reply-To: mchapman@eis.k8.rt.bosch.de On sgi.com in sgi/fax ============================================================================== Mike Chapman e-mail: mchapman@eis.k8.rt.bosch.de (office) fax: (+49) 7121/35-1746 Mike.Chapman@isis.seicom.de (home) tel: (+49) 7121/35-1662 (office) ------------------------------ From: simmons@EE.MsState.Edu (David Simmons) Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux Subject: Re: What's the best Unix Date: 2 Nov 1993 13:06:34 GMT Reply-To: simmons@EE.MsState.Edu (I'm moving this to comp.os.linux.misc due to the comp.os.linux's soon demise) In article <60.44856.2707.0N188C22@canrem.com> andrew.white@canrem.com (Andrew White) writes: >SI>I would get a nice, good SPARCstation 2 to use as a server. Or, perhaps >SI>one of the newer SPARCclassics that are cheaper. The Sun manuals are >SI>very complete, and easy to understand. The high school I attended used >SI>a SPARCstation 2 for their Internet server, and got along pretty well, >SI>and they had similar usage. A Sparc 2 makes a wonderful server for a >SI>department with domestic needs such as mail, gopher, etc. > >A SPARCstation? Internet? AT A HIGHSCHOOL?!? Wonder who was born >under a good star? Or was it a platinum jewel encrusted spoon in your >mouth? ;) Seriously though, that's an incredible opportunity! You (stuff deleted) >That must have been great. Certainly would have put your grads head and >shoulders above most students experience wise. Most people around here >don't even know what UNIX is! Or the Internet. Or USENET or other mail >nets either! Tell me, was your school a special project? Okay... here's the story... For my last two years of high school, I attended the Mississippi School for Mathematics and Science (MSMS.DoE.k12.MS.US), which is a public residential high school located in Columbus, MS, for "academicly gifted" students. (But obviously took those who couldn't spell, either.) MSMS obviously stresses mathematics and science, but also has a strong computer department, and maintains a campus-wide ethernet connecting the academic building, an office building, and both of the residence halls. 10-BASE-T ethernet connections were availble for students in their rooms, and the school leased PC ethernet cards. The campus ethernet was connected to the Internet via a 56kbps link and router, and a Sun SparcStation 2 was used as the main server for mail, etc. I discovered Linux near the end of my junior year at MSMS, and throughout my senior year, another guy and myself worked towards studying Linux and integrating it into our network. Linux became very appealing to students because they could run applications like "Interleaf" on the Sparc 2, and set the display to their local PC. Also, with Unix on their PC that was directly connetced to the Internet, friends from outside could connect to their PCs. My senior year at MSMS, I was pretty much responsible for the system administration of the Sparc 2, and I also did research in computer engineering at the nearby Mississippi State University, so when I graduated from MSMS this past May, I was able to land a job here at the MSU Electrical and Computer Engineering Dept. as a system administrator. Meanwhile, at MSMS, Linux continues to increase in popularity. Well, sorry I took up so much bandwidth with this message... Later guys. -- ========================================================================= David Simmons, System Administrator simmons@ee.msstate.edu Mississippi State University Electrical and Computer Engineering ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Bogomip From: miguel@pinon.ccu.uniovi.es (Miguel Alvarez Blanco) Date: 2 Nov 93 13:11:28 +0100 Ulf Tietz, Tel-2961, tty40 (ulf@rio70.bln.sni.de) wrote: : hamish@zot.apana.org.au (Hamish Coleman) writes: : >acb@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Andrew Bulhak) writes: : >>Christopher Lau (clau@acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote: : >>: ericg@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (Eric Chris Garrison) writes: : >>: > In article , : >>: > wrote: : >>: > >choltje@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Christian Holtje) writes: : >>: > > : >>: > >>>>>>>Two more datapoints: : >>: > >>>>>>>486DX-33 -----> 16.5 bogomips : >>: > >>>>>>>486DLC-33 -----> 11.2 bogomips (Cyrix cross between 386 and 486) : >>: > >>>>>>386DX-25 --> 3.91 BogoMips(tm). : >>: > >>>>>386DX-33/387DX-33 --> 6.03 BogoMips(tm) : >>: > >>>> 486DX66/2 --> 34.06 BogoMips (tm) : >>: > >>>386DX40 ---> 6.99 BogoMips (tm) : >>: > >>486DX50/2 ---> 25.0 BogoMips (tm) : >>: > >486SX25 ---> 12.24 BogoMips (tm) : >>: > 386DX40 ---> 7.29 BogoMips (tm) : >>: Cx486DRx2-40 --> 13.10 BogoMips (tm) (clock doubled 486 upgrade processor) : >>386sx-16 --> 2.23 BogoMips (tm) : >amd386sx-25 --> 3.38 BogoMips (tm) : 486DX40 --> 19.97 BogoMips (tm) : Pentium 23,96 Bogomips (tm) ???? booted from floppy 486DX2-66 --> 33.22 BogoMips (tm) But this is not new, so the question is : What in the hell the BogoMips (tm) is ? Does it measure CPU performance, or what ? -- Miguel Alvarez Blanco "All that is gold does not glitter, miguel@hobbit.quimica.uniovi.es not all those who wander are lost." miguel@pinon.ccu.uniovi.es Bilbo Baggins. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: SLS flaming ! From: miguel@pinon.ccu.uniovi.es (Miguel Alvarez Blanco) Date: 2 Nov 93 13:28:39 +0100 Robert Novitskey (rrn@po.cwru.edu) wrote: : Well, : I've watched patiently. I just have this to say: I like SLS for : one reason, and if someone else offered this, I would pounce : on it! I like the fact that it comes compiled with sound support. : I am a newbie, and I like the fact that I can use my sound harware : from the getgo. If there is any other distribution that offers this, : let me know. Because I am new, I don't want to fool with kernel : recompiles yet!!!! Kernel recompiling is fairly easy: $ cd /usr/src/linux $ make zImage and that's all. Perhaps you'll need a previous make config and answer the questions (with default options), a make depend and a make clean, but it's not that complicated. Are you telling us that you use a *BIG* kernel with lots of features you don't need just because you don't want to spend half an hour compiling the kernel? (Don't worry, I did the same first time but everybody has to learn 8-) Slackware is far better than SLS, more complete, up to date, less bugs and best of all, as someone said, Pat knows what the 'r' key of the mail program is for: you always get answered. : Thanks : BoB : +------------------------------------------------------------------+ : | Robert R. Novitskey | rrn@po.cwru.edu | Case Western Reserve | : |---------------------|-------------------| University | : | (216)-754-2134 | Kusch #210C | Cleveland, Ohio | : |------------------------------------------------------------------| : | I may not look like much now, but I'm drinking milk... | : +------------------------------------------------------------------+ -- Miguel Alvarez Blanco "All that is gold does not glitter, miguel@hobbit.quimica.uniovi.es not all those who wander are lost." miguel@pinon.ccu.uniovi.es Bilbo Baggins. ------------------------------ From: simmons@EE.MsState.Edu (David Simmons) Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux Subject: Re: LINUX hischool project Date: 2 Nov 1993 13:18:45 GMT Reply-To: simmons@EE.MsState.Edu In article <60.44857.2707.0N188C23@canrem.com> andrew.white@canrem.com (Andrew White) writes: > >In the second semester I want to get a project going with students in >our Computers and Problem solving class. What I want to do is get Linux >and set up a 2 or 3 node network if possible. What I am posting about, >and why I am posting so well in advance is that I would like to know >what is going to be involved in getting this thing set up. I only have >one class, so I have plenty of time on my hands. Can anyone see any >problems that I may have of is there anything I should take into >consideration first? I really know very little about this whole system, >so I basically have an idea and the people and the hardware. (That >almost sounded like the Liberals there...) > >In addition, I don't have FTP because of the age restriction. Anyone >suggest how I can get Linux? > > > * OLX 2.1 TD * andrew.white@canrem.com Well, you need 2 or 3 computers (obviously) that are Linux-capable, meaning at least 386s with at least 4MB of Ram, preferably. You need ethernet cards in each of the computers, and some ethernet cable, some T-connecters, and a couple of terminators. That's about it. I've done the same thing in the dorm here, so if you have any questions, I'd be glad to help you out. Why would there be an age restriction on FTP? That's pretty weird... If there's any wqay that I can help you out in getting Linux, let me know. Maybe I could send it to you, and you could compensate me for the disks or something... let me know, -- David Simmons, System Administrator simmons@ee.msstate.edu Mississippi State University Electrical and Computer Engineering ------------------------------ From: jepler@herbie.unl.edu (Jeff Epler) Subject: Re: Linux Distributions Date: 2 Nov 1993 13:48:38 GMT ericm@excalibur.EE.McGill.CA (Eric Masson) writes: >Hello, >I've been using Linux for a few months and I am truly impressed with >its quality. Although satisfied, I am not fully pleased by the >distribution that I am using: the latest SLS. I am currently studying >the alternatives but I have some unanswered questions to which I hope >some of you can assist me. My major complaint about SLS is that it is >a bit sloppy in its organization of files, especially when it comes >to the man pages. I've been feeling negative about SLS: I installed it on my system when it was at 1.02. I spent the first few weeks upgrading things to current versions (ext2fs, term, emacs, gcc, libs, xfree, ...). When I got done, my system was taking up quite a bit of space: Most of my 200 meg hard drive was full. "Oh well," I thought, "Linux is just big." But then I installed the MCC distribution for a friend of mine. I put it plus Xfree-1.3 in a 23meg partition. He's got breathing room. Before the week is out, I plan to be reinstalled using this system instead. (MCC+Xfree 2.0) Granted, mine won't fit in 23 megs since I'll have Emacs, the libs and includes to do X compiling, etc., but it's bound to be smaller than SLS. I took Linux over to Ben's house on 4 diskettes (3x3.5HD+1x5.25HD), SLS came to my house on more than 20 disks! >I keep an extensive set of notes of all the changes I make on my system. >This permits me to reconstruct the system in a few hours if something >disastrous occurs (fortunately this has happened only once so far). >The notes also permit me to recreate all the upgrades and packages >I've installed. Hence upgrades to a newer distribution are made easy. >However I heavily rely upon the sysinstall script to remove,add and >update packages on the SLS distribution I use. Do the other distributions >of Linux offer a similar mechanism ? If so, which ones ? I'm pretty sure that Slackware offers a pretty good system. The vapourware Debian is supposed to have an extremely good system for this, but I've never seen it in action. >I would definitely prefer to get the distribution on CD ROM. Other >than SLS and Yggdrasil LGX what are the other possibilities for a CD ROM >distribution ? I don't have any personal expiriences with any CDROM distribution. I have some secondhand expirience. A friend was very frustrated for some time with the Yggdrasil distribution. Before he got it to work, he'd bought a new hard drive, a new SCSI controller, a new CD-ROM, 4 more megabytes memory, ... . I would stay away from the SLS CDROM because I don't like the 'bloat' of SLS. I've seen mention of the 'Jana CD,' but I don't know too much about it as I don't have a CDROM. >I must use X windows along with an OpenLook setup. >For those distributions that do not include X is it difficult >to perform the setup on my own ? Probably not. I spent less than 15 minutes getting the tinyX Xfree to look pretty much like I was used to. While I still haven't got a 1024x768I resolution to work, it's very usable. I've found both tinyX and a 'virgin' Xfree distribution to run pretty much out of the box. >Although I like to have the most recent release of most software I also >desire stability in what I use. The slackware distribution seems to be >the distribution which reacts most quickly to version changes but >I fear that this is done at the expense of stability. Are my fears >justified ? (perhaps it is only its name that gives me the impression) I don't know about the stability of the distributions. I tend to be more afraid of SLS, since it often gets complaints in public forums like here. (IE this or that is *SOO* outdated, or is some sort of security problem, or whatever.) I haven't heard of any of this getting fixed. And when SLS isn't behind, it's dumb. It once had the (never official) 4.4.2 libs distributed with it, and I think it once had an alpha kernel (in the /usr/src directory, I guess.) instead of a tested one. Scary. My rule of thumb is to wait about a week and then upgrade. SLS seems to either wait too long or way too short. What's alpha software doing in a public distribution? (Especially not 'public alpha' software. I suppose most of Linux doesn't claim to be ready for the true 'general public.') If you were to use something like MCC, you'd be pretty well off for 'stability.' Since the newest version is at pl10, you'll have some upgrading to do. But I've found that it's complete enough, small, and well documented. While it lacks a package removal option, that would be my only complaint. It includes full man pages on the software it has, and has a pretty good organization between /etc, /bin, /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, etc. From what you get to start with, you can add on your own. TinyX was easy. New kernel, libs and ld.so were easy. My two complaints are that it was (initially) missing which and tcsh. I don't know about slackware, but it seems to be another large one. I think the frequent releases allow it to have recent versions of almost all the software, but I don't know how stable it is. I agree that the name is perhaps not the best one to inspire faith with. :) >Which distribution is likely to include Xfree 2.0 ahead of the others ? To me, this is a non-issue. I've got the .tar.gz files of Xfree 2.0 at home, and they're just waiting for me to 'su root' and then install them. I'm not anticipating any problems, it worked with Xfree 1.3. >Thanks for an answer to any of the above questions, I'm afraid I got a little verbose... Oh well. >Eric Jeff -- Jeff Epler jepler@herbie.unl.edu (Preferred) or jepler@nyx.cs.du.edu ____ "Nuke the unborn gay whales" -- Never seen on a protest sign \bi/ |umop apisdn| First year comp sci major. CRPG addict. \/ 1.5