From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Sun, 31 Oct 93 21:13:19 EST Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #259 Linux-Misc Digest #259, Volume #1 Sun, 31 Oct 93 21:13:19 EST Contents: Re: SLS flaming ! (Robert Novitskey) Re: [QUESTION}: simple news reader? (Guru Aleph_Null) Re: SLS/Linux ad in BYTE! (Eugene Crosser) What's wrong ???? (STRINH) SLS/Linux ad in BYTE! (John Will) LGX (Fall) CDROM review. (Rick) Re: Gateway 2000 Pentium Linux (Kevin Fluet) Re: SLS/Linux ad in BYTE! (Guru Aleph_Null) Re: Don't compile kernel using LGX sources. (Juha Laiho) Re: SLS/Linux ad in BYTE! (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rrn@po.cwru.edu (Robert Novitskey) Subject: Re: SLS flaming ! Date: 31 Oct 1993 23:16:47 GMT Well, I've watched patiently. I just have this to say: I like SLS for one reason, and if someone else offered this, I would pounce on it! I like the fact that it comes compiled with sound support. I am a newbie, and I like the fact that I can use my sound harware from the getgo. If there is any other distribution that offers this, let me know. Because I am new, I don't want to fool with kernel recompiles yet!!!! Thanks BoB +------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Robert R. Novitskey | rrn@po.cwru.edu | Case Western Reserve | |---------------------|-------------------| University | | (216)-754-2134 | Kusch #210C | Cleveland, Ohio | |------------------------------------------------------------------| | I may not look like much now, but I'm drinking milk... | +------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin From: spj@ukelele.gcr.com (Guru Aleph_Null) Subject: Re: [QUESTION}: simple news reader? Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1993 18:42:46 GMT In article <1993Oct30.070843.28223@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dminer@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Dan Miner) writes: >I'm looking for a news reader like rn (or trn) for home use. >I do not have network access except by logging in to nyx.cs.du.edu >and getting the articles that way, a simple tar exercise. :) >Is there a reader out there that will compile WITHOUT all the >network stuff? (Please say trn or rn will do this... :) > By network, I assume you're talking about NNTP. Sure, trn will run fine without it. news.software.readers is a better newsgroup to discuss this, because its not really related to Linux. At least, I assume that news.software.readers is for programs, and not people who read news software source code. :) Note that Follow-To: has been directed to news.software.readers... >Thanks, >Dan > >dminer@nyx.cs.du.edu -- ========================================Don't place faith in human beings, Simon "Guru Aleph-Null" Janes |Human beings are not reliable things; |Don't place faith in human beings, |Human beings are butterfly wings...MoLG ------------------------------ From: crosser@pccross.msk.su (Eugene Crosser) Subject: Re: SLS/Linux ad in BYTE! Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 20:49:50 GMT zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) writes: >Looks like Peter has benefited well from his SLS, and other people's >efforts. Now that he's finished supplying defective Linux systems to >the people on the internet, he's trying to inflict the same on the >public at large. >Say NO to SLS! Just a bit of flame: No matter how much Peter benefited from SLS (it is quite ok according to the license), his efforts in assembling the first complete distribution helped MANY MANY people to start up with Linux. Thank you Peter! Eugene ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help Subject: What's wrong ???? From: strinh@mason1.gmu.edu (STRINH) Date: 31 Oct 93 18:37:24 -0500 Why my machine hang after issuing the mke2fs command to create the file system ? I used SLS. It just hang there after giving out the messages "Block log size = 0" "Fragment log size = 0" Has anyone seen this problem before ? Would my pc be linux compatible ? I appreciate your help!!! Thanks. -- strinh@mason1.gmu.edu ------------------------------ From: john.will@satalink.com (John Will) Subject: SLS/Linux ad in BYTE! Date: 31 Oct 93 20:30:00 GMT N >Probably an unrealistic expectation for an advertisement. Certainly N >if *I* advertise packet drivers anywhere, I'm going to "sell" them N >for mondo bucks, and provide support also. N > N >And no, I would NOT include the FTP site nor BBS number. N > N >-russ What canst *thou* say? N >Crynwr Software Crynwr Software sells packet driver support. Of course, you also give them away. :-) ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: aus.computers.linux From: pclink@qus102.qld.tne.oz.au (Rick) Subject: LGX (Fall) CDROM review. Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1993 23:20:08 GMT I've been working with the LGX CDROM for a for a fortnight now, and I'd thought I'd share my experiences. Pros: Almost complete source. Cheap. Cons: Poorly integrated/compiled. Overall: Disappointing. My bona fides: I've been following Linux since Linus announced the kernel in c.o.m. I've offered a number of kernel patches, ported a few applications, written a device driver. My business is programming, with 8 years experience in DOS/Un*x programming and maintainance. My first complete Linux installation was SLS 1.0. Despite the recent flaming of SLS, I found it easy to install, requiring only minor tweaking to create a functioning Linux/X environment complete with news and mail feeds via UUCP. My system is an 8Mb 386DX25, 105Mb/650Mb SCSI disks with TMC885 controller and ET4000 video card. I was looking to make the jump from pl9 to pl13. In the process, I wanted to repartition my disks, and wanted a large source repository. After comparing LGX, Nascent and Ameritech CDROMS, I went with LGX because 1. Price. Just Computing were preselling for a most reasonable price. 2. Postgres. I wanted to have a look at DBMSs. 3. This is Yggdrasil's second release. I assumed that any problems/bugs in the distribution would have been ironed out. The install script allows you a choice of installations - cd_dependant (1Mb), runtime (27Mb), complete (235Mb) and everything (700Mb). I installed the runtime system, with a view to customizing my system with the control panel, an application that allows you to selectively install packages. Some of the problems I encountered may have been due to this partial install - it's possible that users doing the complete install would have less trouble. As a resource, the CD is good. It would have been great if it was a little more up to date (see below). As a turnkey Linux system, it's poor. Yggdrasil are promoting this as a `plug-and-play operating system'. This is true only in the most juvenile sense of the word `play'. Mail, UUCP, and news don't work. The compiler package is installed missing a key program. Most X libraries are not installed. I find it hard to believe that any QC was done at all. The nitty gritty. This is not presented in any particular order. 1. The install script does not handle the case of no swap. While this doesn't affect installation, newbies are going to be quite disconcerted to see error messages during installation. 2. fdisk does not handle SCSI drives/controllers that return invalid drive geometries. While not an Yggdrasil problem, it might have been detected (and easily corrected) by QC. This fault makes it impossible to repartition drives on certain systems. 3. The demo will not run on an 8Mb machine with no swap. Not a real problem, but no mention is made in the manual of the >8Mb requirement. 4. asteroids will not work without a patch. Again, not an Yggdrasil problem, but seeing as this program is the first one listed on the games menu for the demo, it should have been detected and is easily corrected. 5. reboot is located in /bin, not in /usr/bin where init expects to find it, so init doesn't handle the three finger salute. 6. An older, incompatible version of init in /bin. 7. A number of directories are installed with the wrong permissions. For example, /usr, /usr/bin, /usr/local and /usr/local/bin are world writeable, as are others. 8. /usr/bin/ranlib is not installed when you choose to install the compiler component. 9. /usr/bin/Mail cannot update a users mailbox. While it's an improvement over the mail that came with SLS, it requires /usr/spool/mail to be world writeable in order to create a lock file. There are two choices: make /usr/spool/mail rwxrwxrwt, or recompile mail to create its lock file in /tmp. I chose the latter. 10. Most of the X libraries in /usr/X386/lib do not get installed. Soft links are created for them in /usr/lib, but only the shared libs are installed. 11. The UUCP programs are installed with the wrong ownership, which means they can't spool to /usr/spool/uucp, which has the right owner. I needed to recompile anyway to install a bug fix, so this wasn't a problem for me. 12. INN (InterNetNews) is stuffed. Not only is the config suspect (try posting to a moderated newsgroup), the installation is missing a key program, innd. An incompatible version of inews is in /bin. Also installed with the wrong ownership. 13. Kernel rebuilds require configuring IN2000 support. IN2000 support appears to have been added by Yggdrasil, since it doesn't appear in my copy of linux-99.13k. All well and good for Yggdrasil customers with IN2000 cards, but I don't see the point of making everybody else compile with IN2000 support, when a 5 line patch removes this requirement. 14. No NET-2. I may be mistaken here, because networking is one area in which I have no experience. However, one of the packages I've ported (FlexFAX) requires a minimal TCP setup, so I thought I'd have a go setting it up. Following the instructions in /usr/doc/FAQs/NET-2-FAQ, I got to the point of running /bin/hostname -S razorback Guess what? My hostname became `-S'. While no mention is made anywhere of NET-2 support, I assumed (hoped) it would be included. Because of the NET-2 faq, and /usr/doc/network-guide/netguide-0.4, I thought it was. The following are more nit-pickery than Yggdrasil problems. 15. There is no source or documentation for minicom. 16. /usr/src/sbin/getty_ps is version 2.0.2, not 2.0.7b. Since 2.0.7b was released in April, it would have been nice to have it updated. 17. A choice of init would have been nice. The poeigl supplied is a little dated (1.11), and I prefer the SysV init from Miquel van Smoorenburg. Not a Yggdrasil problem, a personal preference. 18. etc is located in /var. If var is meant to be a mountable filesystem, putting etc on it is going to make it difficult. Wait for the FSSTND call on this. 19. The demo of the Andrew System (ez) requires the environment variable ANDREWDIR be defined. Since it isn't, some of the demos fail. 20. The fonts installed for ghostscript-2.6.1 are from the ghostscript-2.5.2 package, so a number of those listed in Fontmap (Nimbus, URWAntiquaT, URWGroteskT) are not available. 21. While the manual cover lists JPEG/GIF/TIFF viewers, you're not actually told what they're called. Expecting xv/xli/xloadimage, I had to poke around before discovering display. 22. Man pages exist for xmahjongg, xjewel and jetpack, but not the programs themselves. There are a number of other things I've had to do, but they fall more into the area of normal configuration/setup. The upshot is that two weeks after getting the disk, and thinking it would be an evenings work to install, I'm still tweaking (eg, I only discovered the missing X libs last night). If I'd known what this disk was like beforehand, I would have waited another couple of weeks for the new SLS CD - the difference in the amount of downtime would have more than compensated the price difference. Yggdrasil had the oppurtunity of making a great introduction for Linux with this. The addition of mpeg/sound applications shows off the potential that Linux holds. Howver, the ball has been fumbled badly, and I would not recommend this CD for users without significant *ix experience. LATE FLASH: As I was posting this, I received a message from Yggdrasil in response to an earlier posting of mine. While the time between posting and response was fairly long, it shows that Yggdrasil listen to their customers. Hopefully they can use this post to better their product. Rick. ------------------------------ From: user1@valis.ampr.ab.ca (Kevin Fluet) Subject: Re: Gateway 2000 Pentium Linux Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1993 22:40:19 GMT In <2atldb$rp5@hpscit.sc.hp.com> wsk@mayfield.hp.com (William S. Kaster) writes: >Note that the 14'' monitor goes only to 1024x768. The 15'' monitor >will go to 1280x1024 but it is interlaced. The 17'' is the CTX >that will go to 1280x1024 non-interlaced. If you are planning on using 1280x1024, I would definitely recommend a 17" monitor, but my 15" 1572FS CrystalScan does 1280x1024 NON-interlaced no problem with the Mach32 XFree86 drivers. It flickers a bit, and text is really too small to read comfortably, but it does work. -- Kevin ====================================================================== Kevin Fluet Call V.A.L.I.S. Public Access Linux (403)478-1281 kevin or user1@valis.ampr.ab.ca Telnet, FTP, Usenet, Email fluet@ee.ualberta.ca Ask me about Linux, the FREE Unix clone! ------------------------------ From: spj@ukelele.gcr.com (Guru Aleph_Null) Subject: Re: SLS/Linux ad in BYTE! Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 01:01:18 GMT In article stock@dutsh7.tudelft.nl (Robert Stockmann) writes: >tzs@stein3.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes: > >>>In article <2ar1b6INNqru@CS.UTK.EDU> goles@cs.utk.edu writes: >>> >>representation (aka false advertising). There is no mention of the >>> >>free nature of Linux nor an ackowledgement of Linus's copyright. >>> > >>> >How is either of those relevant for an ad? >>> >>> I guess some of us feel that it is important to acknowledge the author of >>> the product as well as not to mislead people into thinking that Linux is >>> only available as a commercial product. > >>So? What do either of these have to do with an ad that basically says >>"We sell such-and-such"? Advertisements are not the customary place to >>acknowledge who wrote a given piece of software. As far as misleading >>people, how does "we sell this" mislead people? They are stating what >>they do. Nothing is stopping the potential customer from finding out >>about other ways to get Linux. If you want to publicize these other >>ways, you can take out a BYTE ad of your own. > >>--Tim Smith > >Well I want to mention here, that acces to Internet cost also a lot >of money. Here are some prices from NLnet (Dutch service company): > >connection: $15,= a month >netnews : $15,= a month > >when connection time above 20h/month: $1.25 per hour >and that is excluding phonebill. >SLIP single fee of $500.= > >downloading from for instance tsx-11.mit.edu: > >less than 25 Mb/month............$100,= a month >less than 100 Mb/month............$150,= a month >less than 250 Mb/month............$250,= a month >less than 500 Mb/month............$375,= a month >less than 1000 Mb/month............$625,= a month >less than 2000 Mb/month............$1000,= a month >above 2000 Mb/month $0.50 per Mbyte > >when downloading more than agreed in your contract: $1.25 per Mbyte > Any company that charges you by volume or speed, is a company you should not deal with. You should be charged for the time you occupy on their modem and little else. There are many other Internet providers that do not charge rates like this and anyone would be well advised to stay away from anyone who charges for messages/volume. That's insane. >So if you plan to get SLS1.04 (already there????) you would pay > >1 month connection: $ 15,= >100 Mb/month: $ 150,= >30 floppies $ 45,= > --------- > $ 210,= > Go to a place like Digex (although its not a fair comparison, because its not a "local" call) your cost becomes: 1 month connection: $25 (download it off prime time).. $0 30 floppies $45 ----- $70 >and thats comparable to what Peter is billing you.... and its cheaper if you steer away from the place you just described. >But then you would have a quarterly subscription to either CDROM or >tape or floppie. If you don't have a good and reasonable provider of Internet access, getting a quarterly CD-ROM/tape/floppy set would be much better. Charging for data volume puts that provider up there with Compu$erve for the amount of respect I'd give them.. > >Fortunately I'm a PhD student, and the university is offering me >such a connection for free. For security reasons our computing center >also decided to let their modems call back. so no phonebill either. > >So thats why linux is around here sometimes mentioned as a student's unix. -- ========================================Don't place faith in human beings, Simon "Guru Aleph-Null" Janes |Human beings are not reliable things; |Don't place faith in human beings, |Human beings are butterfly wings...MoLG ------------------------------ From: jlaiho@ichaos.nullnet.fi (Juha Laiho) Subject: Re: Don't compile kernel using LGX sources. Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1993 18:37:47 GMT grante@hydro.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) said: >After much messing about trying to get a new kernel built using the >Yggdrasil LGX source files, I finally gave up on the LGX sources and >kermitted a clean distribution of patch level 13. >The LGX sources have several problems. The high points are: > >1) The /usr/src/linux/fs/proc directory is missing completely. > > (Once I got the .99.13 proc stuff, it wouldn't compile with the LGX > header files -- which I _assumed_ were .99.13, since their > advertisements claim it's a .99.13 kernel.) $ ls /cdrom/usr/src/linux/fs/proc Makefile base.c inode.c link.c net.c array.c fd.c kmsg.c mem.c root.c And the cdrom is Yggdrasil Fall-93 LGX distribution. Strange that they exist on my CD but not on yours.. -- Wolf a.k.a. Juha Laiho Helsinki, Finland (Geek Code 1.0.1) GCS d? p c++ l++ u(-) e+ m+ s+/- n- h(*) f(?) !g w+ t- r y+ "...cancel my subscription to the resurrection!" (Jim Morrison) ------------------------------ From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) Subject: Re: SLS/Linux ad in BYTE! Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 01:48:48 GMT In article <1993Oct29.204950.19266@pccross.msk.su> crosser@pccross.msk.su (Eugene Crosser) writes: >zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) writes: > >>Looks like Peter has benefited well from his SLS, and other people's >>efforts. Now that he's finished supplying defective Linux systems to >>the people on the internet, he's trying to inflict the same on the >>public at large. > >>Say NO to SLS! > >Just a bit of flame: > >No matter how much Peter benefited from SLS (it is quite ok according to >the license), his efforts in assembling the first complete distribution >helped MANY MANY people to start up with Linux. And things have gone downhill since. There is no denying that Peter did contribute to Linux (including the kernel). His refusal to fix bugs and outright mistakes in SLS despite repeated pleas, and mis-representation of Linux's capabilities are a liability to the Linux effort. The worst symptom is that MANY MANY people think SLS is Linux. >Thank you Peter! > >Eugene -- --- Zeyd M. Ben-Halim zmbenhal@netcom.com 10479 1/4 Santa Monica Blvd, LA, CA, 90025 (310) 470-0281 ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via: Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Misc Digest ******************************