From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 09:13:20 EDT Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #155 Linux-Misc Digest #155, Volume #1 Fri, 24 Sep 93 09:13:20 EDT Contents: Re: new Linux CD-ROM (was Re: JANA - anyone heard from them recently ?) (Robert A. Swirsky) Re: Slap, what is it? (Jeffrey Grills) PAS-16 SCSI with CD-ROM and Linux (Peter Binder) Re: Setting active partition on second hard drive (Lawrence Houston) Re: Best BBS software package for Linux? (Mark A. Horton) Re: Newbie, newbie newbie, baby baby baby (Bob Smart) CD Rom Recommendations? (Cory West) *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.04) (Ian Jackson) Re: The hanging of X (Shriram Krishnamurthi) Re: Linux Slowly Dying Off? + Lets make a game for Linux (Johnnie Walker) Re: Linux Slowly Dying Off? (jcburt@gats486.larc.nasa.gov) Re: Net-2 Patches are GREAT (Alan Cox) Re: Linux Slowly Dying Off? (Brandon S. Allbery) Re: Net-2 Patches are GREAT (Jan Wielemaker) Re: Can uncompress crital file - HELP!!!!! (Martin Koch) Re: Andrew Binaries are now on sunsite. (Warner Losh) ObjectBuilder and OI for Linux released (Warner Losh) Re: *** Commercial app developer and Linux! *** (Warner Losh) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: robert@boy.com (Robert A. Swirsky) Subject: Re: new Linux CD-ROM (was Re: JANA - anyone heard from them recently ?) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 05:41:50 GMT In article freed@europa.orion.adobe.com (Alex Freed) writes: > >I recommend everybody to check out the new Linux CDROM from Trans-Ameritech >(sp?). > >They DO answer email, phone and ship the same day. If you live in bay area, >they are in Santa Clara. > >Their email is roman@trans-ameritech.com and phone is (408) 727-3883. > >-Alex. I can also recommend this disk. It's by far the best Linux CD-ROM I've seen, with a couple of different installation options. There's even a "live" system on the disk that I can symbolic link to. They also put BSD-386 and lots of assorted utilities on the disk. I got it two days after I placed my order. (Some other company kept me waiting a l-o-n-g time for their disk!) -- Robert S. ------------------------------ From: jefftep@cs.utexas.edu (Jeffrey Grills) Subject: Re: Slap, what is it? Date: 24 Sep 1993 00:51:10 -0500 In article <27sq30$fdt@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, Barzilai Spinak wrote: > Recently I read a post where something about a Slap project was mentioned. >What is Slap? > >+---------------------------------+ >| Barzilai Spinak | >| ..... barspi@wam.umd.edu | >| (-O-O-) barspi@eng.umd.edu | >+nnn--U--nnn----------------------+ slap is the next version of term1.0.7. it will support: multiple modems in parallel, reconnection after carrier loss, better rc handling, tredir integrated into slapd, secure multi-user mode, udp redirection, and more. it is not released yet. development is not currently open to the public -- there is just simply too much going on to try to support/coordinate this project outside the development team. -- jeff grills jefftep@cs.utexas.edu ------------------------------ From: pbinder@stein1.u.washington.edu (Peter Binder) Subject: PAS-16 SCSI with CD-ROM and Linux Date: 24 Sep 1993 06:19:58 GMT Is it possible for me to use my Pro-Audio Spectrum SCSI port under Linux for my CD-ROM drive (NEC CDR-84)?? Peter Binder pbinder@u.washington.edu ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.msdos,comp.os.msdos.misc From: houston@norton.geog.mcgill.ca (Lawrence Houston) Subject: Re: Setting active partition on second hard drive Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 06:44:56 GMT From article , by reczek@acsu.buffalo.edu (Tim Reczek): > Hi everyone, > > I have two hard drives: Westen Digital 340MB as master, Maxtor 130MB > as slave. I was considering using the 130MB dive to run linux on while > leaving the 340MB drive solely DOS. > > Question: Can I make the linux partion on the 2nd drive the active partition? > > I tried to do this with fdisk (with both drives having DOS partitions) and > it said that only partions on the first drive can be made active. There are only few of the "fancier" Boot Managers which allow booting from Active Partitions on a Second Hard Drive (I do not believe Linux's fdisk has the potential). What I have successfully done on my system (with its two SCSI Hard Drives), is install Linux (Slackware 1.0.3) on the second drive (leaving the DOS and Interactive Partitions on the first drive untouched)! I am restricted to booting from the LILO Boot disk which Slackware's Setup Program generated for me. Sounds like your's are IDE Drives, I do not know if the same will work (but we are planning to attempt the same thing on an IDE based based machine next week). > Does this mean that I am unable to run linux on the 130MB drive because > I can't make it the active partion (short of physically swapping the drives). > > Admittedly I haven't delved much into linux, so I don't even know if this > makes a difference. But if I have to have the linux partition on the first > drive (the 340MB), I'll have to backup and repartion the whole thing (yuck!). > I'd really prefer to keep my O.S's on separate drives if possible. > > Any info is appreciated. If you try the LILO Boot Disk "trick" can you let me know your results. We are planning to do the same with a 210 Meg WD and a 200 Meg Maxtor (both IDE, the Maxtor will be the slave, DOS is already on the WD)? > Thanks, > > Tim Lawrence Houston, McGill University. ------------------------------ From: mahmha@crl.com (Mark A. Horton) Crossposted-To: alt.bbs.unixbbs Subject: Re: Best BBS software package for Linux? Date: 22 Sep 1993 07:46:39 -0700 Jartsu (jartsu@snakemail.hut.fi) wrote: : Hi there. : So, recommend me a good software for linux-based BBS. I have already : some info about UniBoard, but are there any competitors? It can be : commercial, but it'd better be good then. Quality is more important : than price... YABBS is small, quick, and rather nice. Doesn't support file up/downloads, but you could add that fairly easy. It's available for ftp on the net, I think it's at phred.pc.cc.cmu.edu. It is *very* fast! - Mark : -- : Jartsu -- ================================================================================ Mark A. Horton | Email: mah@ka4ybr.com (soon) Mark Horton Associates | Voice: +1 (404) 371 0291 (office) Strategic Planning | Fax: +1 (404) 371 0291 (office) Performance Tuning | Data: +1 (404) 378 7046 (Linux bbs) "The opionions expressed here | Snail: P.O.Box 747, Decatur, GA US 30031-0747 DO represent those of myself." | ICBM: 33 45 N / 084 16 W | Cruise: 33 45 30 N / 084 16 50 W ================================================================================ "We may note that, for the purposes of these experiments, the symbol "=" has the meaning "may be confused with." - Anon. ================================================================================ ------------------------------ From: bsmart@bsmart.TTI.COM (Bob Smart) Subject: Re: Newbie, newbie newbie, baby baby baby Reply-To: bsmart@bsmart.TTI.COM (Bob Smart) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 07:10:41 GMT In article , david@c-cat.UUCP (Dave) writes: > > Do you think It would be possible to port and compile Oracle database v6.0 > and the front end development tools SQL*Forms and SQL*Menu under Linux.* I sure wish this would happen--I've got a Pro*C application that I'd really, REALLY like to run direct on my Linux box, but I can't port it there because I don't have the Oracle libraries it needs. That means the only way I can use this application from home, is to run it someplace else and use my Linux machine as a remote X terminal...which is unappealingly slow, even with a 14.4 Kbps SLIP to run across. Bummer. > * This might be a good undertaking for my contribution to the Linux world. Uhhh...won't Oracle Corporation have an opinion about this? Or were you merely offering to pester Oracle to get them to do it? ========= A fanatic is someone who does what he knows that God would do if God knew the facts of the case. Some mailers apparently munge my address; you might have to use bsmart@bsmart.tti.com -- or if that fails, fall back to 72027.3210@compuserve.com. Ain't UNIX grand? ------------------------------ From: corywest@kennel.rice.edu (Cory West) Subject: CD Rom Recommendations? Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1993 19:24:29 GMT Well, I have been using my Sony CDU-31A for a while now and want to get a disc with Linux stuff on it so that I can reclaim some of my precious hard disk space. I'd love to get recommendations from anyone who has purchased one of the many linux discs. Thanks. Cory ------------------------------ From: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Jackson) Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.04) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 10:03:01 GMT Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of which groups you should read and post to. If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or from another Linux FTP site. In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!' The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place. Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not comp.os.linux.misc. Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix, and that non-Linux-specific Unix questions should go to comp.unix.questions. Please read the FAQs for these groups before posting - look on rtfm.mit.edu in /pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq and .../unix-faq. Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me ! -- Ian Jackson (urgent email: iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk) 35 Molewood Close, Cambridge, CB4 3SR, England; phone: +44 223 327029 ------------------------------ From: shriram@cs.rice.edu (Shriram Krishnamurthi) Subject: Re: The hanging of X Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 19:05:36 GMT graphix@iastate.edu (Kent A Vander Velden) writes: > >I have been having problems with X hanging after an x number of minutes. This >problem started after I installed my new hard drive and updated my SLS >distribution to 1.03. I have tried different window managers with no luck. I tried mailing you in response, but the mail bounced claiming that "graphix" was an unknown user. I just wanted to say that I've been having the exact same problem that you have. I added a swap file, and that helped for a while, but I'm back to having X hang on me now. (8Mb swap did nothing, 16Mb was the temporary cure.) If anyone e-mail's you a response, I'd be ever-so- grateful if you could forward it to shriram@cs.rice.edu. Thanks muchly. ------------------------------ From: koellner@galaxy.fernuni-hagen.de (Johnnie Walker) Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.help Subject: Re: Linux Slowly Dying Off? + Lets make a game for Linux Date: 24 Sep 1993 11:04:31 GMT Jeff Epler (jepler@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote: : What's a computer for besides games? Buy a monitor with box-shaped case and you will always have a place to drop the papers, cups and cans so undisturbed you may commence with coffee-breaks until work ends. -- Peter Koellner Student of Idiocy at the university of Dortmund EMAIL:koellner@fernuni-hagen.de ------------------------------ From: jcburt@gats486.larc.nasa.gov Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.help Subject: Re: Linux Slowly Dying Off? Date: 24 Sep 1993 11:25:06 GMT In article sxjcb@alaska.edu (Jay Beavers) writes: In article <27t2au$3v1@samba.oit.unc.edu> mdw@sunSITE.unc.edu (Matt Welsh) writes: >It's not dying off... not at all. It's simply stabilizing. Things aren't >changing as rapidly, which is a sign of maturity. So, like, CP/M is really really mature now? Yep! kinda like a corpse...'bout as mature as its gonna get...:-) -- John Burton G & A Technical Software, Inc. jcburt@gatsibm.larc.nasa.gov 28 Research Dr. Hampton, Va. 23666 jcburt@gats486.larc.nasa.gov (804) 865-7491 ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development From: iiitac@swan.pyr (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Net-2 Patches are GREAT Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 09:50:34 GMT In article <27stla$87f@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> jmorriso@rflab.ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes: >In article <27qj40$cli@bigbird.csd.scarolina.edu>, >Billy L. Williams Jr. wrote: >:Hello Fellow net-users, >: >:I would just like to remark that the net-2 patches found on sunsite under >:/pub/Linux/system/Network/net2-debugged-tcp.tar.z really work wonders for >:me. My system (pl 12, 13 alpha, and 13) really wasn't stable at all under >:any kind of net load, but the new patches really help my system stay up >:under normal usage. Take a look: > >OK, what's the secret? I can get pl13 with net-2e4 running, although >it isnt very stable. I'm about to give up on net-2e, so I downloaded >the newest pl13 source and followed the net2-debugged instructions. The >instructions tell you to move your inet directory, then unpack the new >code. No Makefile or CONFIG is included with net2-debugged, so I >assume you are supposed to copy the old ones (from inet.old!). Ok so everyone knows I messed up slightly on the instructions. Keep the old CONFIG and Makefile. Net2Debugged is really a short term thing. All the magic goodies from it should percolate into the real NET-2E as it comes along (I've been emailing things to FvK as I go). Net2Debugged still isn't a 100% reliable trip to paradise however. I've got two fixes I've found since the release. >After compiled and booting, the new net2 stuff won't even detect my ethercard. Sounds like a configuration error. The new net2 doesn't alter the ethernet detection at all. Please email me if you have any problems. If it is a bug in net-2debugged I want to track it down, if not then I don't mind helping anyway. >: >:[1] % uptime >: 6:14pm up 17:47, 2 users, load average: 0.01, 0.06, 0.02 >: >:and I've been hitting the net fairly hard trying to crash the machine >:(it didn't crash 17:47 ago either, just rebooted after applying patches). >:This would have been unthinkable without these patches--a simple repition >:of "tcpspray" commands would eventually bring it down (after approx. >:100 or so such commands in a row). >: >:Oh, my hardware: 386-40, 20 meg ram (but with kernel 16 meg limit due to >:the ethernet card drivers), Boca AT1500 compatible card, nothing else >:special. I'm glad to hear a report that it works with an AT1500 type card. That is one I haven't got access to test it on. >: >:Thank you, Swansea University, for making my net stable! >: >:By the way, can anybody direct me to the newest telnetd and rlogind? I >:realize that I should get them for pl 13, but I have been unable to find >:any kind of new sources for them.... They are on athos.rutgers.edu in /pub/linux. The've improved things here but not 100%. I know Fred van Kempen has improved the NET-2 code in NET-2E to remove some complicated problems with ACK packets not being sent in certain cases (causing odd lockups of links) so I deduce these are still in NET-2D Alan Cox (internet) iiitac@pyr.swan.ac.uk // GW4PTS@GB7SWN (packet) ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.help From: bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) Subject: Re: Linux Slowly Dying Off? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 11:47:51 GMT In article sxjcb@alaska.edu (Jay Beavers) writes: >In article <27t2au$3v1@samba.oit.unc.edu> mdw@sunSITE.unc.edu (Matt Welsh) writes: > >>It's not dying off... not at all. It's simply stabilizing. Things aren't >>changing as rapidly, which is a sign of maturity. > >So, like, CP/M is really really mature now? In the software publishing industry, "stable" is a euphemism for "outdated". :-) ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery kf8nh@kf8nh.ampr.org bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org "MSDOS didn't get as bad as it is overnight -- it took over ten years of careful development." ---dmeggins@aix1.uottawa.ca ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development From: jan@swi.psy.uva.nl (Jan Wielemaker) Subject: Re: Net-2 Patches are GREAT Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 12:02:28 GMT jmorriso@rflab.ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes: >OK, what's the secret? I can get pl13 with net-2e4 running, although >it isnt very stable. I'm about to give up on net-2e, so I downloaded >the newest pl13 source and followed the net2-debugged instructions. The >instructions tell you to move your inet directory, then unpack the new >code. No Makefile or CONFIG is included with net2-debugged, so I >assume you are supposed to copy the old ones (from inet.old!). >After compiled and booting, the new net2 stuff won't even detect my ethercard. Tried exactly the same. I've got no network at home, but we're trying to get the network stuff going at the University. Even using the loopback net, just `rlogin myself' followed by logout crashed the system without any message!? At least that works on plain pl13. Now I trust that the inet-D package is debugged, but how does one get it *properly* linked to the kernel? The first thing I want are *reliable* remote running X11 applications. The second thing I want is nfs. NIS would be the greatest! Thanks --- Jan ------------------------------ From: nick@kiew.uni-paderborn.de (Martin Koch) Subject: Re: Can uncompress crital file - HELP!!!!! Date: 24 Sep 1993 14:36:19 +0200 paulhac@news.cs.columbia.edu (Laurent Paulhac) writes: >Netters, >A few month ago I save a note that refered to solving the problem that diamond >graphic board owner encounter when they try to run XFree. I save that note >because I new that I will want to make use of it a bit latter. >Well I tried to use it today, and I faced a problem I can't solved!! >The note included a critical file that will set the card properly for XFree. >I have included the file as I have found it. It says .tar.Z, so I tried > to uncompress it without success; it return a bad format message. >Any clue on what format that file is in??? >Thanks >Laurent This file is uudecoded! Simply copy it in an file and type uudecode file The result is a file with the name diamond-fix.tar.Z Use tar xvfz diamond-fix.tar.Z to extract the archive. --- Bye ;-) Martin Koch --- email : nick@uni-paderborn.de Bodelschwinghstraße 8 --- phone : +49 5251 31104 Q D-33102 Paderborn Germany ==============Escape the Gates of Hell, use Linux========== Everyone's a foreigner - nearly everywhere ------------------------------ From: imp@boulder.parcplace.com (Warner Losh) Subject: Re: Andrew Binaries are now on sunsite. Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 00:06:53 GMT In article <27dddjINN9r2@apache.dtcc.edu> joe@apache.dtcc.edu (Joe Brown) writes: >In article >jcburt@gats486.larc.nasa.gov writes: >> Well, just so you guys don't feel *too* special, I have the same >> problems with andrew and ObjectBuilder, but I'm running the >> x8514scaled server, not the XS3 server...perhaps its a common problem >> with the XFree86 1.2 based servers? > >Actually, it's probably the same problem. From what I understand, >XS3-4.4 was derrived from the 8514 server. ObjectBuilder works with XFree 1.2 and 1.3. I rather suspect that Joe is right that XS3-4.4 and the 8514 server share the same problem. BTW, How does ObjectBuilder fail? I must have missed the start of this thread... Warner -- Warner Losh imp@boulder.parcplace.COM ParcPlace Boulder I've almost finished my brute force solution to subtlety. ------------------------------ From: imp@boulder.parcplace.com (Warner Losh) Subject: ObjectBuilder and OI for Linux released Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 00:36:25 GMT I posted the following to comp.os.linux.announce, but thought I'd also post a copy here. Email me if there are any problems with the distribution. Warner ParcPlace is making freely available its popular ObjectBuilder(tm) and Object Interface (OI(tm)) products for the Linux operating system. ObjectBuilder is a GUI builder written completely in C++, that enables UNIX C++ developers to apply the principles of object-orientation to the development of user interfaces. OI, a C++ class library, provides the toolkit foundation for ObjectBuilder. OI implements the look-and-feel of both Motif 1.2 and OPEN LOOK. OI is built directly on top of Xlib and is unencumbered by runtime royalties to any party. ObjectBuilder and OI are very extensible, actively facilitating the use of subclassing to create new, reusable, user interface components. The software in this release is fully functional. You can do exactly the same things with this release that you can in our fully supported commercial versions. We do not have the resources to devote to supporting and testing the port of ObjectBuilder and OI to Linux, so we are releasing it to the Linux community in the hopes that it will prove useful to that community. Obviously, if you like the Linux version you will also like our commercial products that exist on Sun, HP, DEC, and IBM workstations... The COPYING policies are appended to this announcement. The release is available from tsx-11.mit.edu in /pub/linux/packages/OI. The files under that directory are: COPYING States the terms and conditions of copying this release. oi1, oi2, oi3 subdirectories that correspond to three 3.5" floppies that are in SLS format and can be installed with sysinstall. oi40.tar The above subdirectories as one file This software is also available directly from ParcPlace for a nominal fee that covers our manufacturing costs. In addition to 3 diskettes containing the software, you will get a 250 page book for ObjectBuilder and a 1200 page book for OI. Send email to info@parcplace.com or call 1-800-759-7272 (USA and Canada) or 1-408-481-9090 (ask for international sales) for more information. If you have any OI applications that you'd like to distribute, send me email (imp@Boulder.ParcPlace.COM) and I'll be happy to add it to a user contrib area on tsx-11. Warner COPYRIGHT NOTICE Copyright (c) 1992, 1993 ParcPlace Systems. All rights reserved. ObjectBuilder(tm) and the Object Interface library (OI(tm)) are products of ParcPlace Systems, Inc. and are provided for unrestricted use on computers running the Linux operating system provided that this legend is included on all tape media and as a part of the software program in whole or part. Users may copy, use and distribute ObjectBuilder and the Object Interface library for systems running the Linux operating system without charge provided that the above copyright notice appears in all copies, the Announcement Letter is included with the software distribution, both the copyright notice and this permission notice appear in supporting documentation, and the name of ParcPlace not be used in advertising or publicity pertaining to distribution of the software without specific, prior written permission. OBJECTBUILDER AND THE OBJECT INTERFACE LIBRARY ARE PROVIDED AS IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF DESIGN, MERCHANTIBILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE OR TRADE PRACTICE. ObjectBuilder and the Object Interface library are provided with no support and without any obligation on the part of ParcPlace Systems, Inc. to assist in their use, correction, modification or enhancement. PARCPLACE SYSTEMS, INC. SHALL HAVE NO LIABILITY WITH RESPECT TO THE INFRINGEMENT OF COPYRIGHTS, TRADE SECRETS OR ANY PATENTS BY OBJECTBUILDER AND THE OBJECT INTERFACE LIBRARY OR ANY PARTS THEREOF. In no event will ParcPlace Systems, Inc. be liable for any lost revenue or profits or other special, indirect and consequential damages, even if ParcPlace has been advised of the possibility of such damages. ParcPlace Systems, Inc. 999 E. Arques Ave. Sunnyvale, California 94086-4593 1-408-481-9090 -- Warner Losh imp@boulder.parcplace.COM ParcPlace Boulder I've almost finished my brute force solution to subtlety. ------------------------------ From: imp@boulder.parcplace.com (Warner Losh) Subject: Re: *** Commercial app developer and Linux! *** Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1993 15:49:26 GMT In article teffta@cs690-3.erie.ge.com (Andrew R. Tefft) writes: >At the very least it often gets them interested in Linux, >and (as Warner shows) a Linux enthusiast can have some effect. Just to add something here. My brother got me turned on to Linux when he brought out his then brand new 386-40 machine running it. About 9 months later when I had the money for a good machine, I went out and purchased a machine. Given that we could work from home on occasion, and that I had this machine at home, it was only natural that I port the stuff I was working on to Linux. If I recall correctly, the port took something like 8 hours, and most of that was waiting for OI/OB to compile. The rest of it was fighting g++ bugs, with a broken header file or two tossed into just to make things interesting. Once the port was done, I told the folks at the office about it. They weren't sure what, if anything, to do about it. I thought about putting a time bombed version out, but the head of technical support suggested just to put it out there w/o any jimmied code. The marketing manager went for the idea. We gave copies away at Xhibition and it had a huge response. My poor mailbox was melted down for weeks with people asking for copies. It was also able to postively influance a few sales cycles, so it has been worth it to us. It was just uploaded to tsx-11 (and should appear at sunsite soon). The hardest part was moving this project from a hack that I did so I could get work done at home, to a product that we'd be giving away and/or selling. Warner -- Warner Losh imp@boulder.parcplace.COM ParcPlace Boulder I've almost finished my brute force solution to subtlety. ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via: Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Misc Digest ******************************