From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 12:21:43 EDT Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #12 Linux-Misc Digest #12, Volume #1 Tue, 17 Aug 93 12:21:43 EDT Contents: Is this hardware enough for LINUX? (turgut kalfaoglu) Re: Are any SIMMs cheap these day$ ? (Martin de Jong) Re: LINUX (James Ojaste) lilo - cylinder too big!?! (Neal Becker) Re: From your friends at UNIXWorld (Hugh D.R. Evans (ESA/ESTEC/WMA Netherlands)) Re: Why would I want LINUX? (Herb Peyerl) WABI/WINAPI - a Retraction (Byron A Jeff) TP w/o Hub? (Re: Linux Satellites (Cheapest Linux Hardware Configuration)) (Ted Chan) DIP v3.2.2 problem (Joshua P. Weage) Something is wrong with Linux boot code... (Steve Wampler) Re: WABI/WINE - INFO! (Byron A Jeff) Re: Is this hardware enough for LINUX? (Philippe Steindl) Re: WABI/WINE - INFO! (Byron A Jeff) Re: term and txconn (J. M. O'Donnell) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 14:02:14 GMT From: turgut kalfaoglu Subject: Is this hardware enough for LINUX? Hi. I am considering switching to linux to write X applications. I will also need tcp/ip on the box to connect to various sites. My boss is suggesting a 386SX-20Mhz machine with 6 Megs of RAM and 80 Meg hard disk. It seems both too small in RAM and hard disk, not to mention too sluggish. However, I have never tried LINUX, so I don't know. Can someone tell me if it's an acceptable setup? Thanks! -turgut ------------------------------ From: mdejong@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl (Martin de Jong) Subject: Re: Are any SIMMs cheap these day$ ? Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 11:52:08 GMT Just to get back to the topic of SIMM prices again : Does anybody know is SIMMs are still expensive (and how expensive??) ? I'm just wondering if prices did allready drop to the normal rate before the explosion in the chemical factory in japan. ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: rec.games.programmer From: ojastej@wfh7546.ice.ncr.ca (James Ojaste) Subject: Re: LINUX Reply-To: ojastej@wfh7546.ice.ncr.ca (James Ojaste) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 12:51:08 GMT In article <1993Aug16.153929.25053@dmu.ac.uk>, se2sb@dmu.ac.uk (STUART BEALE) writes: |> Anyone know of LINUX for the Amiga. |> |> Where it is. |> |> Is it free. |> |> What Amiga spec do you need to use it etc. Try posting to comp.os.linux.* I've crossposted this to comp.os.linux.misc. -- /* 0F 90 3E 44 F9 13 E7 CC (jojaste@descartes.uwaterloo.ca) ** 10 20 44 C8 42 21 08 98 ** 38 40 F9 50 87 C2 1F 30 "Woof bloody woof" - Gaspode the Wonder Dog ** 40 81 12 61 08 84 22 00 (Terry Pratchett, Moving Pictures) */ F9 FA 24 42 11 3F 44 C0 ------------------------------ From: neal@ctd.comsat.com (Neal Becker) Subject: lilo - cylinder too big!?! Date: 17 Aug 1993 13:15:32 GMT I have been using lilo for some time on my ESDI drives with fine results. But this morning when I tried to install the latest kernel version lilo failed, complaining about "cylinder number too big > 1023". Is there a fix for this? Thanks. ------------------------------ From: hevans@estwm0.wm.estec.esa.nl (Hugh D.R. Evans (ESA/ESTEC/WMA Netherlands)) Subject: Re: From your friends at UNIXWorld Reply-To: hevans@wm.estec.esa.nl Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 15:44:17 GMT In article , kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) writes: |>In article <24eddtINNk4b@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> ksh@prl.ufl.edu (Kevin S Ho) writes: |>>In article , kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) writes: |>> |>>Well, that's a good point, but take a total idiot and tell him to install |>>linux....... |> |>Which is precisely the problem... |> Speaking as a complete Unix (not to mention Linux) Novice (possible idiot as well), I managed to get the SLS distribution and install it with very little problems (even X windows). I'll admit I do know a bit about the PC, but all the partitioning and file systems was new to me. All in all, it was as easy to install as any other OS I have tried (DOS included). The next major mind bender is setting up the dialin/out, UU and SLIP. That could be simplified. |>>|> Yup. Linux is really great stuff. Highest quality stuff *I've* |>>|> ever seen. I'll Second that. -- Hugh Evans European Space Research and Technology Centre - Noorwijk, Netherlands Internet: hevans@wm.estec.esa.nl SPAN: ESTWM2::hevans But she stopped herself. You didn't juggle matches in a firework factory. (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc From: hpeyerl@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Herb Peyerl) Subject: Re: Why would I want LINUX? Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 13:58:18 GMT In article <24m779$b0h@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US> earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US (Greg Earle) writes: [ A bunch of a people saying deleted. ] >thought of it!" Meanwhile, there's the fact that there are more than 7 times >the number of postings to the Linux groups than to the 386BSD/NetBSD groups: > >isolar:2:40 % ls -R1 /var/spool/news/comp/os/386bsd | egrep '^[1-9]' | wc -l > 226 >isolar:2:41 % ls -R1 /var/spool/news/comp/os/linux | egrep '^[1-9]' | wc -l > 1593 Hmm... MacDonald's sells more hamburgers world-wide than any other chain. Does this make them the *best* hamburger? Maybe you ought to talk to Jesus about his formal Logic course.... -- hpeyerl@novatel.cuc.ab.ca (actual but UUCP) | NovAtel Commnications Ltd. hpeyerl@fsa.ca | "valloc,malloc, & chmod, founders of the first users' group, arrive at their meeting place and are surprised by 'slattach', the dreaded barbarian hacker" ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.help From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) Subject: WABI/WINAPI - a Retraction Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 14:34:50 GMT I'm guilty of spreading mis-information. I'd like to print a retraction. Can someone in the know post the status of these two projects? Followups to comp.os.linux.misc only. > > > [ Someone in the ether wrote... ] > > >Is there a WABI alike support for LINUX? If yes what it is call? > > >And when would be available? (WABI is developed for SUN OS to run > > >MS Windows application.) > > [ I replied ] > > Yes. It's pre-Alpha and doesn't do anything real yet. It can be found in > > both the SLS 1.03 and latest Slackware distributions under winapi.tgz. > > [ pschen deleted portion about it being pre-Alpha and currently unusable.] > [ pschen stuck in my mailbox ] > WA!! So good, I hope "WABI alike" can be product . > Can it run Windows-program,OS/2,MAC? > I hope it can !!:) [ My reply to pschen. And retraction ] I've confused two different development efforts. The WINAPI stuff allows you compile windows sources and it substitutes X calls for the Windows calls. That's what's in the SLS/Slackware distributions. The WABI stuff will allow you to run Windows Binaries directly. Again from what I understand there will be an equivalent to a Windows DLL that will translate windows calls to X calls dynamically. Now before you go off jumping for joy: 1) WINAPI is in pre-alpha. 2) The WABI folks aren't talking. I have not seen any software yet. 3) We're talking Windows only. Linux's job is not to emulate every OS on the planet. It's just that there is such a huge body of DOS/Windows programs - that being able to run them without leaving Linux and to be able to run other programs while DOS/Windows programs execute is a useful tool. ====================== Personal opinion time ============================= I personally prefer Linux based tools and programs to DOS/Windows programs. Unix code is generally cleaner - more readable - and has calls I know and understand. WABI is useful because there are a few useful Windows programs that required a tremendous amount of programming effort, only has the binary available and doesn't have a Linux equivalent on the horizon. WABI will execute those binaries. So I'd advise in the meantime to just keep a partition available with all of the DOS/Windows programs that you absolutely must have. Migrate everything else to Linux. Incidentally I was cleaning out my DOS partition last night. I found about 13 Meg of stuff (out of 21 Meg) that I'd either moved to Linux, or didn't need. And now that I have DOSEMU running (Yeah! That's a program to jump for joy about...) I can run the few DOS applications my wife uses from Linux. Life is good. BAJ --- Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of... Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel! Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu ------------------------------ From: twc@Saigon.COM (Ted Chan) Subject: TP w/o Hub? (Re: Linux Satellites (Cheapest Linux Hardware Configuration)) Date: 17 Aug 93 07:43:35 GMT From article <24kgj3$dcp@news.u.washington.edu>, by kenney@stein.u.washington.edu (Michael Kenney): > In article <24ja52$nmc@indigo.imp.ch>, Philippe Steindl wrote: >>Hello, >> >>sounds alright, but don't forget that these cheapo ethernet cards are >>TwistedPair and not Thinwire (am I wrong?). Twistedpair needs a central >>unit collecting all the client wires .. and these units are expensive. > > You can get an 8 port twisted pair hub for about $200.00. If you > can indeed get twisted pair cards for $30 (vs. $90 - $100 for thinnet) > then the price savings from 3 cards will nearly pay for the hub. Add > in the lower cable cost and twisted-pair becomes a bargin. After having purchased a pair of WD-ETP cards new-in-box for about $80, I set about figuring out how to hook up the two. Manuals mentioned a concentrator which turns out to be a couple of hundred bucks (OUCH!). So, out of desperation, I bought a $2 inline plastic straight-through RJ45 coupler, pulled it apart and wired outs to in and ins to out. Only 4 of the wires are active. Works great. Saved a bunch. Only $2. Downside is that I can't easily add nodes... --twc ************************************************************************** * I have found a truly wonderful proof which * UCB Mathematics 1983 * * this margin is too narrow to contain. * Standard Disclaimer(s) * ************************************************************************** * Ted W. Chan * Micro Flexhead(TM) * UUCP: twc@legal.uucp * * Corporate Counsel * Contact Recording * DATA: (408) 241-8373 * * Censtor Corp. * Heads and Media * VOICE: (408) 298-8400 * ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: ai900@yfn.ysu.edu (Joshua P. Weage) Subject: DIP v3.2.2 problem Date: 17 Aug 1993 14:35:23 GMT Someone posted earlier on getting an ST???? error & network unreachable. Has anything been straightened out? As I get the same error also. Is it a problem w/ v.3.2.2? Thanks, Josh -- ================================================================= - Joshua Weage : U.S. Snail - 277 Spring Rd, Baroda, MI 49101 - - E-Mail: cs890@freenet-in-a.cwru.edu | ai900@yfn.ysu.edu - - Opinions are my own ( But may not be well informed :-< ) - ------------------------------ From: swampler@noao.edu (Steve Wampler) Subject: Something is wrong with Linux boot code... Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 15:01:22 GMT (Well, *that* subject line ought to stir things up...) I've been unsuccessful getting Linux (any version since 99pl4 - don't know about earlier versions) on my 486 to boot. Invariably, it dies during the boot with a message about "no free pages". Many kind people have been helpful, with suggestions about trying: (1) Booting w/o cache (2) Replacing the memory chips (3) Replacing the BIOS (4) Replacing the motherboard However, to be honest, I don't believe any of them. I believe (easy for me to say, I know) that the correct answer is: Fix the Linux boot process. Why? Because: (1) I've been running System 5r3 for 3 years now on the machine with *never* a problem on booting - none, zilcho - comes right up. (2) NetBSD-0.8 boots without a problem - none, zilcho - comes right up. (I'm not even going to mention MS-DOS, of course.) I'd be willing to bet that System 5r4 would come right up, as would the other BSD versions floating around. And yes, the cache is enabled for these. Further, I can benchmark the System 5r3 system and measure the difference between having cache enabled or disabled, so if the System 5r3 system is disabling the cache itself, it must be reenabling it after booting. (And I doubt it touches the cache at all!) Now, clearly these other OS's are doing something different than Linux does during booting. What? Why can't Linux do it too? (Yes, I also recognize that I'm in a very minority position with Linux, as it works *on most hardware*, but I wonder if there are people running w/o cache, etc. that really shouldn't have to be doing it that way?) I happen to like Linux (I've used it on other machines), it's a clean design, and the general net support is much nicer than that I've seen for the BSDs out there. It's very frustrating that something in the boot process is keeping me from using it. -- Steve Wampler swampler@noao.edu Gemini Project (under AURA) ------------------------------ From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) Subject: Re: WABI/WINE - INFO! Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 15:33:21 GMT First of all the Linux binary execute project is called WINE. SUMMARY: It's being worked on. It's making progress. We'll be informed when something useful is done. The developers need help. So if you have time/energy join the WABI channel. Here is the info I just received by Email (thanks Kurt!) ================= WINE INFO BY EMAIL ================================ The WABI project is now using the name "Wine". I'm not involved, but here's the README from tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/ALPHA/Wine. ===== begin included README ===== The Wine project for linux is an attempt to write something with similar functionality to the WABI that was developed by Sun. The basic goal is to be able to take a MS-Windows binary and run it under Linux with X-Windows running. The finished product will essentiaily consist of two parts: a) A program loader, which will load the Windows binary into the virtual memory of the linux process, provide a means for adjusting the ldt of the processor so that the 16-bit segments that are typically used with Windows binaries will work correctly, and provide a means for calling the Windows binary in the first place, allowing the Windows binary to call back to the 32-bit mode program, and finally allow the 32-bit mode program to call back again to the Windows binary (i.e. Windows callbacks). In each case, the arguments being passed wil have to be pulled from the appropriate stack and loaded on to the other stack (there will be a 16 bit and a 32 bit stack). Finally some application specfic DLL libraries will have to be loaded, and dynamic linking will have to be performed. b) The second part of the finished product is an emulation library, which takes calls to Windows functions, and somehow translates these into calls to X11 in one fashion or another, so that equivalent functionality is achieved. It should be pointed out that the Windows binary will be running directly - there will be no need for machine level emulation of the instructions. Sun has reported better performance with their version of WABI than is actually achieved under MS-Windows - theoretically the same result is possible under linux. The project got started as a result of discussions on comp.os.linux in early June of 1993. A mail channel was set up for discussions, and this directory was created. At the moment, all of the files that are uploaded are in the private directory in a hidden directory. The reason for this is that the program is really only of use to developers right now. Once something is ready for public consumption, it will be uploaded to a publicly visible directory. The final product will almost certainly be under the GNU Public License (or GPL for short). If you are interested in getting involved in this project, join the linux activists' WABI channel. Also, I will do my best to answer any question mailed to me. My address is "bob@amscons.com". *************************************************************** Status Report - August 4, 1993 The loader portion is nearing completion. Sample Windows binaries are loaded correctly into memory, dynamicly linked and so forth. The 16/32 bit call interface is fairly complete. There are still a few features that remain to be added before it can be considered "done", but it is at the point where it is actually useful. Resource loading and software interrupt handling is still not done. A very minimal version of the emulation library has been merged with the loader. Windows can be created, DC's may be used, bitmaps are partially handled, text drawing is implemented, and a preliminary implementation of menus has been created. -Bob ===== end included README ===== Just thought you might like to know! -Kurt Hockenbury --- Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of... Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel! Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu ------------------------------ From: ilg@imp.ch (Philippe Steindl) Subject: Re: Is this hardware enough for LINUX? Date: 17 Aug 1993 17:28:36 +0200 Hello, well ... the hardware would work. Linux would run without problems on it, but: - 80MB is rather small. You want to use X on it. A complete Linux distrib with X fills about 60 - 90 MB on the HD (with all the utilities etc), so get a 245 MB drive (these are rather cheap todays, around 400$). - A 386sx ist the absolute minimum for Linux. You want to write X programs. On a 386sx, compiling will take 3 years for even the smallest thing (okok, not really 3 years .. but real long :-) ) why 6 MB? get 8. My 0.0000000$ Philippe ------------------------------ From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) Subject: Re: WABI/WINE - INFO! Date: 17 Aug 93 15:35:57 GMT Obviously my first line of the previous post is incorrect. WINE - a Linux based Windows Binary loader/library. Not Linux execute (what the hell does that mean??? ;-) BAJ --- Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of... Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel! Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu ------------------------------ From: odonnell@mpx2.lampf.lanl.gov (J. M. O'Donnell) Subject: Re: term and txconn Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 16:35:00 GMT In article <141359@netnews.upenn.edu>, hseung@anat3d2.anatomy.upenn.edu (Hyunsuk Seung) writes... > >I believe the original poster wants to fire up a X application from >his Linux box and display it on someone else's display on the network. >Actually, this is an interesting concept. > >Hyunsuk Seung >hseung@anat3d1.anatomy.upenn.edu It is the whole concept of putting the machine address in the display name. It is one of the main features of X! John. ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via: Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Misc Digest ******************************