From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Tue, 7 Sep 93 09:13:20 EDT Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #103 Linux-Misc Digest #103, Volume #1 Tue, 7 Sep 93 09:13:20 EDT Contents: HELP! Need info/opinion on Linux from JANA Publishing! (Sanjay Goyal) Re: NT versus Linux (Floyd Davidson) Re: Wordprocessor under X (Michael O'Reilly) Re: Wordprocessor under X (Michael O'Reilly) AMD 386 40 problem ? (Klaus Rieck) Re: Linux user groups in every city! (fwd) (John A. Martin) Re: NT versus Linux (Michael Kenney) Re: Has anyone ported BSD Mail? (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) Re: How to kill term 1.07 with carrier loss? (Dave Price) f2c and entries? (Klaus ZLOEBL) *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.03) (Ian Jackson) Information on UMC Eisa/VL chipset -- DTC 3270-VL scsi2 ctrl (Hans Guldager Knudsen) Linux and > 16MB (Klaus ZLOEBL) Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux (Wolfgang Strobl) Where's the PostScript stuff for groff? (Rick Miller) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: goyal@cs.scarolina.edu (Sanjay Goyal) Subject: HELP! Need info/opinion on Linux from JANA Publishing! Date: 6 Sep 93 21:07:06 GMT I have decided to enter the exciting world of LINUX ! I have a CDROM and would like to know the best place to purchase Linux operating system ! I recently heard about Jana Publishing and it seems like a good deal ... I would like to hear from anyone who has dealt with Jana. Please e-mail your response .. and I will post a summary. Thanks in advance. UDAY MENON ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy From: floyd@sanford.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson) Subject: Re: NT versus Linux Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 04:21:03 GMT In article <1993Sep7.034422.7845@kf8nh.wariat.org> bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) writes: >A cheap 68000-based PC would have had one *big* problem compared to the >original IBM PC: Intel made it very easy to convert existing 8080 assembly >language to the 8088, and MS-DOS 1.x was "API compatible" with CP/M 2.2. >Existing CP/M-80 business applications could be moved to the IBM PC very >easily; doing this for a 68000 would have been much more difficult even with >CP/M-68000 (which shipped too late to be helpful anyway). And at the time IBM, Intel, and MicroSoft made much of the fact that they were designing it all to be backward compatible to the greatest degree possible, and that they would continue to do so with future designs. Since I'm a techie type, I understood what a stupid move that was! They would be held up for years before the best technology would be usable in such a system! Terrible idea! Of course they all made millions because they did it that way, and most of those who did what I *knew* was technically the right way to go... went broke. Well... they are *still* technically behind. And I bet they cry all the way to the bank about it too! -- floyd@ims.alaska.edu A guest on the Institute of Marine Science computer Salcha, Alaska system at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks. ------------------------------ From: oreillym@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Michael O'Reilly) Subject: Re: Wordprocessor under X Date: 7 Sep 1993 03:33:40 GMT steveo (steveo@beyond.demon.co.uk) wrote: : Edward v/d Jagt (cspas152@sus.edu.eur.nl) wrote: : : Does anyone have or know about a Wordprocessor for X (under Linux) with : : capabilities like WordPerfect has (something which has graphical and layout : : capabilities). : This raises a question in my mind, has anyone ported the Andrew Toolkit : from X11R5 contrib. It is supposed to provide a truly wonderful : wordprocessing : environment, but I have never been able to compile it not enuff : spare disc :-( Yup. Me. I am in the process of porting it. (It is re-compiling now. 35 megs of source, full compile uses > 140 megs of disk space. ekk!) The ez editor works, help works. In fact, everything except a program called 'sched' works. I have no idea what 'sched' does. :) let me know if you want binaries. I'll drop them on sunsite if there is interest. I have no idea just how large the binaries will be. Figure at least 30 megs. (there is a large number of dynamicly loaded objects). Michael. ------------------------------ From: oreillym@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Michael O'Reilly) Subject: Re: Wordprocessor under X Date: 7 Sep 1993 03:33:59 GMT Philip Brown (philb@cats.ucsc.edu) wrote: : In <1993Sep1.192540.609@beyond.demon.co.uk> steveo@beyond.demon.co.uk (steveo) writes: : > This raises a question in my mind, has anyone ported the Andrew Toolkit : >from X11R5 contrib. It is supposed to provide a truly wonderful : >wordprocessing : >environment, but I have never been able to compile it not enuff : >spare disc :-( : Well, then the operative word is just "compiled", not ported, eh? Unfortunately, it isn't an easy port. The &*^&*^&^%&* dynamic objects are a bitch to get working, and thats nothing next to trying to debug the suckers. Michael. ------------------------------ From: Klaus.Rieck@f0.n101.z88.gun.de (Klaus Rieck) Subject: AMD 386 40 problem ? Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1993 11:06:00 > Have I got a bad machine, or is there a known problem with the > AMD386-40 ? > Linux is convinced I have a co-pro using exception 13 > reporting, and so > a lot of maths gets confused. Using LILO with the "no387" flag > gets around > the problem, but this is a pain to remember this machine is > special when > admining a potential 30 machines over 7 sites. I've got the same problem but no solution. On my Intel 386/33 linux works fine, but on my AMD 386/40 it has the problem to detect a copro where noone is :-( maybe a problem in the routine for detection. ciao Klaus ------------------------------ From: jmartin@opus.starlab.csc.com (John A. Martin) Subject: Re: Linux user groups in every city! (fwd) Date: 7 Sep 1993 01:05:35 -0400 Reply-To: jmartin@opus.starlab.csc.com (John A. Martin) writes: | From wb8foz@scl.cwru.edu Tue Sep 7 00:09:02 1993 | Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 00:17:51 -0400 | From: David Lesher | Message-Id: <199309070417.AA07862@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu> | To: jmartin@opus.starlab.csc.com | Subject: Re: Linux user groups in every city! | Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu | Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc | In-Reply-To: <26h0gv$ea@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> | References: | Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex | Cc: | | It is considered the lowest of manners to POST email you receive | without the author's permission. I am sorry if I have done that, and if so I apologize. I do not see news directly but only through the digestifiers. Am I mistaken that when the heading includes Newsgroups: as does the incomming header on the message from you that I am responding to here, am I mistaken that that indicates that you sent the message I received also to the newsgroup? A quick check tells me that each message from you that I responded to with copies POSTED did indeed include the Newsgroups: line in their headers. Am I misinterpreting something? Again, an apology if I did wrongly air your comments. (You will recall that I told you to whom, and by inference I hope why, I was copying others on a private part of our exchanges. That was before I saw your message here.) Cheers --jam ------------------------------ From: kenney@stein1.u.washington.edu (Michael Kenney) Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy Subject: Re: NT versus Linux Date: 7 Sep 1993 05:46:03 GMT In article <930906.103834.9V2.rusnews.w165w@mulvey.com>, Rich Mulvey wrote: [ lots of stuff deleted ] > What makes UNIX inappropriate? > > 1) Rotten file-system integrity in harsh environments. Ever try to > run a computer in a factory that contains lots of high startup load > machines without an expensive UPS? It's not fun to have the machine > crash before syncing. And we're not talking about a cheap, $250.00 > in-line UPS - they can't cut it. > Huh??? First of all, putting a computer - any computer - on the same circuit with large electric motors is just plain stupid. I can't imagine a factory actually doing this. If they do, maybe they should stick to DOS, they probably shouldn't use computers at all :-) The file-system integrity problem is due to disk cacheing ... you'll have the same problems if you use a disk-cacheing package under DOS/Windows. At least with Unix you have a good chance of fixing your problems with fsck. ---- Mike Kenney UW Applied Physics Lab mikek@apl.washington.edu ------------------------------ From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) Subject: Re: Has anyone ported BSD Mail? Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 08:08:48 GMT In article <1993Sep5.085028.663@exodus.abg.sub.org> root@exodus.abg.sub.org (Michael Boesch) writes: > >In article 25B@netcom.com, zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) writes: >> I was wondering if anybody has ported BSD's Mail (aka /usr/ucb/mail) to >> linux. > >The BSD Mail comes with the porting of XMailtool for linux. Another bit of overkill :-( apparently mailx is a port of BSD's Mail. The version on sunsite includes binaries but uses sendmail for delivery. I don't need it on a stand-alone system. Unfortunately, you can't switch between mail.local and sendmail without recompiling. >bye >Mike > > >-- > Michael Boesch root@exodus.abg.sub.org > > "God not only plays dice, He sometimes throws the dice where they cannot be > seen." (S. Hawking) -- Zeyd M. Ben-Halim zmbenhal@netcom.com 10479 1/4 Santa Monica Blvd, LA, CA, 90025 (310) 470-0281 ------------------------------ From: dp@esu.edu (Dave Price) Subject: Re: How to kill term 1.07 with carrier loss? Date: 7 Sep 93 04:22:25 GMT From the terminal of Scott D. Heavner (sdh@fishmonger.nouucp) this flowed forth: & Has anyone patched term, found the correct command & line options, etc to kill term when the carrier is lost. & For some reason, my modem always drops it's connection if & someone calls the house. Do you have call waiting at home? the call waiting signal and the modem's hang-up singal are just about the same. Now I have a crontab entry that & checks if term is running and tries to finger me on the & remote machine, if this fails, it shuts down the connection & and restarts it. It would be much nicer to have it die & on it's own. Can't help you there... & Scott & sdh@po.cwru.edu -- _________________________Dave Price dp@esu.edu___________________________ __o `It is alright to disturb me, that is what I came here for' \<, The Colorblind James Experience ---,--`--{@ ___()/()_________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: zloebl@piis10.joanneum.ac.at (Klaus ZLOEBL) Subject: f2c and entries? Date: 7 Sep 1993 09:03:55 GMT Does f2c support the ENTRY statement? Thanks for any hints and pointers Klaus -- Klaus Zloebl | E-Mail: zloebl@piis10.joanneum.ac.at Joanneum Research | PSI : PSI%2631102911::ZLOEBL Steyrergasse 17 | A-8020 Graz | Phone: ++43/316/8020/243 AUSTRIA | ------------------------------ From: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Jackson) Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.03) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1993 10:03:02 GMT Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of which groups you should read and post to. If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or from another Linux FTP site. In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!' The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place. Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not comp.os.linux.misc. Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix. The FAQ for this group is available on rtfm.mit.edu in /pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq. Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me ! -- Ian Jackson (urgent email: iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk) 35 Molewood Close, Cambridge, CB4 3SR, England; phone: +44 223 327029 ------------------------------ From: guldager@daimi.aau.dk (Hans Guldager Knudsen) Subject: Information on UMC Eisa/VL chipset -- DTC 3270-VL scsi2 ctrl Date: 7 Sep 1993 10:25:04 GMT Hello. Has anyone got some information on UMC's EISA/VL chipset. Are there any testreports ? How is the compatibility ? Fully 32 bit DMA ? Will ATI's Graphics Ultra Pro run with this chipset ? How is the EISA performance ? How is the VL performance ? How is the memory performance ? ( maybe testet with Cachemess from the German CT'magazin ? ) I would also like to have some information on a DTC 3270 VL - SCSI 2 controller from Data Tecnology Corporation. Are there any testreports ? How is the compatibility ? Can it do VL-Busmastering/ VL burstmode DMA ? ( I suppose that this is the 32bit DMA on the Vesa Local bus ) How is the performance ? ( compared to Adaptec 1742 / Ultrastore 34F ) Has anyone run Linux or OS/2 on these components ? Please E-mail to guldager@daimi.aau.dk ============================================================= Hans Guldager Knudsen | Spobjergvej 54, 6 Stud Comp Sci | DK-8220 Brabrand Daimi, Aarhus Universitet, Danmark | Tlf. (+45) 86 24 07 31 E-mail: guldager@daimi.aau.dk | -- Hans Guldager Knudsen | Spobjergvej 54, 6 Stud Comp Sci | DK-8220 Brabrand Daimi, Aarhus Universitet, Danmark | Tlf. (+45) 86 24 07 31 E-mail: guldager@daimi.aau.dk | ------------------------------ From: zloebl@piis10.joanneum.ac.at (Klaus ZLOEBL) Subject: Linux and > 16MB Date: 7 Sep 1993 11:23:14 GMT Is there a way ti use > 16MB ram with an ISA bus? if not, is there a way to use memory > 16MB for some structures which don't need to be dma'd (i think dma is the main problem for mem > 16 MB) what about the page tables or whatever is used for mm, i think they can be swapped out, if mem is needed for something else, so if i had some 4Mb at >16MB they could be placed there, and could stay there. are there less problems with eisa or vesa lb boards? i would need a >=32MB machine for the prog. i want to port (a finite element program with motif gui) thanks for any hints Klaus -- Klaus Zloebl | E-Mail: zloebl@piis10.joanneum.ac.at Joanneum Research | PSI : PSI%2631102911::ZLOEBL Steyrergasse 17 | A-8020 Graz | Phone: ++43/316/8020/243 AUSTRIA | ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy From: strobl@gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl) Subject: Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 12:08:34 GMT In jcburt@gats486.larc.nasa.gov writes: > In <1993Aug31.174959.7570@taylor.uucp> mark@taylor.uucp (Mark A. Davis) writes: > >tzs@hardy.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes: > >>Mark A. Davis wrote: > >>>That presupposes that MS-"Windows" is an operating system, which by all > >>>definitions I have known, it is not. Current temperature: 68 degrees? > >>What are your definitions? Back each one up with a cite to a major operating > >>systems text, please. > >I don;t think that is necessary. MS-"Windows" cannot run by itself. > >Need I say any more? > Sure, if you can. > Look, DOS can't run by itself, either. It too needs a bootstrap loader. >Ummm difference between "booting" and "running"... Well, DOS needs a software interface to the real hardware (basic input/output system) while it runs. In a way, DOS is just a shell around the BIOS capabilities (program loading, sector input and output, character input and output to various devices), and is *not* able to run without the services of the BIOS it depends on, including but not limited to the initial program load. > Using an inferior OS as part of the bootstrapping sequence is > common practice nowadays. My SGI Indigo has a tiny OS in ROM which > has more functionality than DOS has - it even can do some networking, > and, of course, it can load and run programs. Usually, it's only used > for firing up the IRIX kernal and for maintenance purposes. ID'm told >Okay, now the question is, once loaded, does the IRIX kernel use the >ROM bootstrap program, or does it communicate with the hardware directly? I have no idea, and don't consider the answer to this question to be essential for the question whether IRIX is an OS or not. But I have a better example: AIX, which is a Unix variant for IBM RISC workstations (formerly RT, now RS/6000, if I'm not mistaken) doesn't access any hardware at all while it runs, because it runs on top of a software layer which hides the hardware completely. >i.e. does the IRIX kernel *replace* the functionality of the ROM bootstrap >loader when its running, or does it *extend* or *complement* the functionality >of the bootstrap loader. If it *replaces the functionality of the bootstrap >loader, then the IRIX kernel is said to "run by itself", otherwise, its >an extension to the bootstrap loader...Windows is an extension to DOS, it >does not "run by itself"... Of course it does. It uses DOS as a bootstrap loader and replaces most of its functionality. It's not a perfect replacement, because it still uses DOS for logical disk access. On the other hand, it runs DOS in virtual 8086 mode as one of many tasks and is able to handle disk IO internally for certain disk controllers, so one could argue that even in that area Windows is the resource manager in control, not DOS ... > Does this make IRIX, SunOS, DOS or NT not an operating system, just > because none can run "by itself", and needs something as a loader > (and perhaps as an interface provider) which meets most of the > criteria for an OS and *does* run "by itself"? Of course not! > If it makes you feel better to call Windows not an OS, just because > it has a three-step boot sequence (i.e. BIOS -> Boot record -> DOS -> > Windows) instead of the more common two-step one (i.e. BIOS-> Boot > record -> [NT/OS2/what have you]), feel free to do so. >Ummm...its not because of the 3 step boot sequence...the distinction >is NOT the number of steps, but instead a replacement/extension of >functionality...Windows NT and OS/2 completely *replace* the functionality >of DOS in that they do not use DOS to talk to the "machine" in any way, The fact that they don't use the *BIOS* (which is restricted to real mode operation on non PS/2 hardware) is much more important. Neither NT nor OS/2 completely replace the functionality of DOS, because both implement a large part of that functionality, just for compatilibility purposes. Most of this is probably done simply by using polished and slighlty modified original DOS source code (or some translation there of). >shape, or form. By the same token Windows 3.x *extends* the functionality >of DOS by providing additional features, but still relying on DOS >to provide many of its functions. It still relies on DOS for some of its functions (well, for a single one, but that's not important), but the list of functions where it completely *replaces* DOS by managing the resource in question itself - and in a very different way - is much longer: CPU (task management), Keyboard, Serial ports and parallel ports, Pointing device, Video display hardware, Printing devices, Memory, Audio hardware. >When you start Windows 3.x, DOS is >still running underneath to provide some of the services...When running >OS/2 or Windows NT, DOS is considered an "application" running under the >control of the base O/S (which provides considerable control over >the DOS environment). When running Windows 3.x, DOS *is* the base O/S >with Windows running as a protected mode application... Well, I would say if Windows runs in protected mode, Windows is the base OS which continues to run DOS in a virtual machine in order to be able to provide some of its services, and for compatibility. DOS is a real mode operating system and is not able to run protected mode applications. > I prefer the more traditional view that an operating system is a > hierarchically constructed or layered set of interacting programs > which together manage the basic resources: time, memory, storage, I/O. >[...stuff deleted...] > The primary view we take in this book is that the operating system > is a collection of programs (algorithms) designed to manage the system's > resources, namely, memory, processors, devices, and information (program > and data). [...]" >Okay, as you say, an operating system is a collection of programs designed to >manage the systems resources...DOS uses 3 primary programs/files, IO.SYS, >MSDOS.SYS and COMMAND.COM plus a bunch of utility programs to manage the >systems resources. So lets consider the 3 primary files + utilities as >"The DOS Operating System". Windows provides many utilities of its own >plus a nice GUI, but it still makes use of IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS and COMMAND.COM >to provide many of its services. Looking at it from this point, DOS *is* an >operating system. DOS + Windows *is* an operating system. Windows by itself >is *not* an operating system No. By your argumentation, DOS by itself isn't an OS either, because it needs an IBM compatible BIOS beneath. You can't have it both ways. -- o ( Wolfgang Strobl Wolfgang.Strobl@gmd.de (+49 2241) 14-2394 /\ * GMD mbH _`\ `_<=== Schloss Birlinghoven, P.O. Box 1316, | #include __(_)/_(_)___.-._ 53731 Sankt Augustin, Germany | ------------------------------ From: rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller) Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help Subject: Where's the PostScript stuff for groff? Date: 7 Sep 1993 13:10:14 GMT I've got all the nifty groff stuff that came with the SLS-1.03, but it doesn't seem to include a directory needed by "groff" to produce PostScript output. The error I get is: gtroff: can't open `DESC' gtroff: fatal error: sorry, I can't continue I looked around with "find" and have deduced that I need a directory called "/usr/lib/groff/font/ps" (which would contain the file DESC, among others). So, where do I find this directory? (...and why wasn't it included in SLS?) RICK MILLER Voice: +1 414 221-3403 P.O. BOX 1759 FAX: +1 414 221-4744 MILWAUKEE, WI Send a postcard and I'll send one back. 53150-1759 USA Sendu bildkarton kaj mi retrosendos unu. ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via: Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Misc Digest ******************************