From: Digestifier To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 13:13:18 EST Subject: Linux-Development Digest #256 Linux-Development Digest #256, Volume #1 Wed, 24 Nov 93 13:13:18 EST Contents: Linux/XFree 2.0/Mach32 (Robert Morris) Re: T130B SCSI drivers - should I write one ? (GREG_GROVE_HARGROVE@cup.portal.com) Re: Don't use Motif for free sw: it now requires runtime royalties! (R. Stewart Ellis) Problem: SIGHUP and su command (U.Kunitz) Re: Creeping featuritis (post --rant --flame) (Malcolm Beattie) Re: Creeping featuritis (post --rant --flame) (Mark A. Davis) Re: 4.3 BSD sendmsg/recvmsg (Steven Buytaert) Re: Creeping featuritis (post --rant --flame) (Brandon S. Allbery) Re: TCL/Tk vs Motif/C++ or TCL/Tk with C++? (Bernhard Strassl) Re: Linux/XFree 2.0/Mach32 (Hannes Reinecke) Re: Pentium & gcc ??? (Kai Petzke) Re: [Q] Big modem installation for Linux? (Edward O Quillen) shql? anyone (Simon Johnston) Free Software and Motif (was: Re: Don't use Motif for free sw:...) (Otmar Lendl) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help From: rmorris@mv.mv.com (Robert Morris) Subject: Linux/XFree 2.0/Mach32 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 10:36:38 GMT I'm having a problem with XFree2.0 and Linux during installation. I can't get X to start. I've set my monitor "modes" correctly. X just trashes my screen - the system still responds, but I can't see what I'm doing. I have to reboot. I've been working on this for a whole week. I have a Gateway 2000 Local Bus 486 with an ATI ultra pro with 2MB of VRAM. First I installed linux. Then I updated it with XFree86 2.0 I've read the documentation in depth many times over, but to no avail. I'm using Monitor modes that work for other people. I'm using the Mach 32 driver and "Clocks" data from the list provided by Wexelblat in that release. Any Suggestions? Here's the only possibility I can think of: In Clock entry number seven, there is a "Ext" in the field for that clock. That is in the clock figures for that card (in the Wexelblat document) a "Ext" exists in the seventh field. I can find no reference to this other than it means "External" something or other. What is this "Ext"? A keyword for the Xconfig file? I tried that. If I put "Ext" in that spot, X chokes on it - ditto "External" and "-1", etc. If I fill that spot with "0.00" X will start up and trash the screen. WHAT IS THAT SEVENTH CLOCK ENTRY? HELP?? Thank YOu. Rob ------------------------------ From: GREG_GROVE_HARGROVE@cup.portal.com Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help Subject: Re: T130B SCSI drivers - should I write one ? Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 03:39:15 PST >Is anybody working on a driver for the Trantor T130B SCSI Adapter ? Having >just purchased a gig drive so that I could play with linux, I was a little >more than disappointed to find the controller not supported. > >If there is nobody working on this, would somebody like to drop a few hints >on how one would go about writting such a beast ? I might be inclined >to spend some of my non-existant spare time doing the deed. > >Regards, > Andrew > Hi, Andrew! I alas cannot help writing such a beast, but I can offer to BETA-test, if you decide to take up the challenge. I currently have Linux and Dos on my 2 IDE drives, and a SCSI (Trantor T130(?) ) card for my cd-rom. Greg ------------------------------ From: ellis@nova.gmi.edu (R. Stewart Ellis) Crossposted-To: comp.infosystems.www,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.windows.x.motif,gnu.misc.discuss,comp.sources.d Subject: Re: Don't use Motif for free sw: it now requires runtime royalties! Date: 24 Nov 93 12:47:01 GMT marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Marc Andreessen) writes: >In article ellis@nova.gmi.edu (R. Stewart >Ellis) writes: <> >(a) Our academic site license lets us distribute free, > statically-linked binaries of Mosaic compiled with Motif 1.2 all > we want. We can distribute dynamically-linked binaries of Mosaic > compiled with Motif 1.2 as well, as long as we don't distribute > the Motif libraries themselves along with the dynamically-linked > binaries (which we would't). Please don't argue with me on these > points unless you're an OSF lawyer, as they are -- so far as I > know, and based on conversations with OSF folks -- facts. And > remember, Motif 1.1 was even less restrictive, and is still widely > used (our own Sun binaries, for example, are linked to 1.1). <> I received clarification on this from someone at OSF. What you say is what he said. When I reposted what he said, he chided me for sharing a private communication. If this is true, which I now assume it is, I don't understand why people from OSF have not publicly posted this clarification. They have posted others that basically support the confusion. The problem is that the different conditions do not seem to be in any logical relationship. It is indeed fortunate that they have relieved academic sites of the record-keeping requirements. > distant future; remember, all it really takes is someone with an > academic site license for Motif and a Linux box to make a binary > everyone can use, or donate us a development system and we'll do > it. Don't get me wrong. I also cite Mosaic as perhaps the single most important distibuted net app. What I need right now is someone with an academic license for Motif to compile a version for SunOS 5.3 with term sockets enabled, if anyone has it figured out yet. >Cheers, >Marc >-- >Marc Andreessen >Software Development Group >National Center for Supercomputing Applications >marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu (MIME welcomed here) Keep up the good work. -- R.Stewart(Stew) Ellis, Assoc.Prof., (Off)313-762-9765 ___________________ Humanities & Social Science, GMI Eng.& Mgmt. Inst. / _____ ______ Flint, MI 48504 ellis@nova.gmi.edu / / / / / / Gopher,News and sendmail maintainer, all around hack /________/ / / / / ------------------------------ From: kunitz@harvey (U.Kunitz) Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help Subject: Problem: SIGHUP and su command Date: 22 Nov 93 09:44:41 GMT I've here a serious problem. I discovered it, while I was logged in a Linux-Mailbox, where I administarte the news system. After I executed 'su - news' I got a 'NO CARRIER'. I wasn't able to log in again. The mailbox sysop discovered, that the su process was still running, blocking the ttyS1 device. I examined the problem on different versions of SLS (1.02, 1.03), different Kernels (99.8, 99.11, 99.13, 99.13q) and with different shells (tcsh 6.03 and bash 1.12.1). I found the problem in every combination I tested. I show it here for SLS 1.03, Kernel 99.13. 1) tcsh 6.03 o Login under my user in virtual console 2 and su - to root. Both processes are tcsh. ===================================================================== # ps -jax -t2 PPID PID PGID SID TT TPGID STAT UID TIME COMMAND 1 68 68 68 2 71 S 100 0:00 -tcsh 68 71 71 68 2 71 S 0 0:00 -su ===================================================================== o Now I send a SIGHUP to the process 68 and look for the su process. ===================================================================== # kill -HUP 68 # ps -jax 1 71 71 68 ? -1 S 0 0:00 -su [ other processes deleted ] ===================================================================== o The process is still alive, but doesn't have a controlling terminal. But when I switch to the virtual console 2, I discover that there getty and the -su are reading from it. 2) bash 1.12.1 o The same procedure doesn't produce the problem. ===================================================================== # ps -jax -t2 PPID PID PGID SID TT TPGID STAT UID TIME COMMAND 1 96 96 96 2 98 S 101 0:00 -sh 96 98 98 96 2 98 S 102 0:00 -su # kill -HUP 96 # ps -jax [ no -su process ] # ===================================================================== o Doing the same with starting a command (ls -F -l | less ) in the -su process produces the problem again. ===================================================================== # ps -jax -t2 PPID PID PGID SID TT TPGID STAT UID TIME COMMAND 1 105 105 105 2 143 S 101 0:00 -sh 105 142 142 105 2 143 S 102 0:00 -su 142 143 143 105 2 143 S 102 0:00 ls -F -l /usr/bin 142 144 143 105 2 143 S 102 0:00 less # kill -HUP 105 # ps -jax PPID PID PGID SID TT TPGID STAT UID TIME COMMAND 1 142 142 105 ? -1 S 102 0:00 -su [ other processes deleted ] # ===================================================================== It seems to me, that one reason is, that a TIOCSPGRP is possible without signalling the current foreground processes like -su, that they are now in background and cannot read anymore from the terminal. IMHO the read call has to be interrupted with a SIGTTOU signal. But the code in tty_io.c and tty_ioctl.c isn't so clear to me, that I can easily fix the things up. Some fast hacks I tried didn't solve the problem. I tried the same under SunOS 4.1.2 with tcsh 6.03 and couldn't discover the problem there. So I think it isn't a problem of the shells, like someone suggested in response of my last posting. He proposed that the shells should call vhangup(). It would work, but I thought, that Linux should support all free UN*X software with no major changes. I hope, that somebody will find a solution! Ciao, Uli -- I know tha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> t in my heart I f >>>> Ulrich Kunitz >>>> kunitz@informatik.hu-berlin.de >>>> eel like going ho >>>> >>>> Voice: (030) 513 11 52 >>>> me again But I k <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< now ... ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss From: mbeattie@black.ox.ac.uk (Malcolm Beattie) Subject: Re: Creeping featuritis (post --rant --flame) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 12:51:09 GMT In article haley@scws6.harvard.edu (Elizabeth Haley) writes: [stuff deleted] >You raise a bit of a valid point though... I have often thought it >would be nice if there was a {for i in 1...100} sort of construct, for >creating and numbering files. There's a neat command that doesn't seem to be as well-known as it should be: jot. It's really just a wrapper around a `for' loop with printf support added. For example % jot 5 1 2 3 4 5 % jot -s '' -c 10 65 ABCDEFGHIJ % jot -w 'foo%d.bar' - 30 50 3 foo30.bar foo33.bar foo36.bar foo39.bar foo42.bar foo45.bar foo48.bar If I didn't use Perl for most scripts, I'd really miss jot. --Malcolm -- Malcolm Beattie Oxford University Computing Services "Widget. It's got a widget. A lovely widget. A widget it has got." --Jack Dee ------------------------------ From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis) Subject: Re: Creeping featuritis (post --rant --flame) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 13:37:53 GMT bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) writes: >[[sarcasm on]] But then, since BSD did it it's obviously both "oh-so-true >Unix" and the only correct way to do it. [[sarcasm off]] :) -- /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Mark A. Davis | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 | | Sys.Administrator| Computer Services | mark@taylor.wyvern.com .uucp | \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/ ------------------------------ From: buytaert@imec.be (Steven Buytaert) Subject: Re: 4.3 BSD sendmsg/recvmsg Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 15:06:34 GMT Mark Little (M.C.Little@newcastle.ac.uk) wrote: [ about recvmsg and sendmsg not yet being implemented proper in the kernel ] : Actually my first mail message was a half-truth ;-) I've already implemented : sendmsg and recvmsg as library calls on to send and recv. The problem is : finding the standard for the format - it works fine between Linux machines, but : between Linux and, say, SunOS, it falls flat! I'm going to look into this when : I get a chance, I was only really checking to see if someone else had already done : it (saves me time and effort! :-) It also seemed strange for these two primitives not : to be implemented as everything else can be implemented as library calls to these. : Thanks anyway, Hi Mark, I'm not an expert at all, just trying to be helpful to locate the problem you have with two machines of different sex talking to eachother. This morning I posted the problem about the definition of gethostbyaddr() being probably (IMHONEO - non expert opninion) wrong. Check out my post... Could this be the cause of a linux box and a SUN box not talking to eachother ? -- Steven Buytaert Interuniversity Micro Electronics Centre - Invomec Division Kapeldreef 75, 3001 Heverlee, BELGIUM phone : +32 16 281 271 fax : +32 16 281 584 e-mail : buytaert@imec.be In case of danger, BREAK glass ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss From: bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) Subject: Re: Creeping featuritis (post --rant --flame) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 15:02:13 GMT In article mib@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell) writes: >In article <1993Nov24.023307.12419@kf8nh.wariat.org> bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) writes: > Says who?! Where I come from, cat did block-by-block copies using > stdio; cat -u did block-by-block copies using read()/write() (and > was so much more efficient that I got into the habit of using -u > always; some versions of cat avoided stdio altogether and simply > ignored -u). It was only when someone decided to adopt the stupid > BSD "cat -n" nonsense that cat ended up being inefficient all the > time. > >You are all clearly talking through your, uhh, never mind. > >Anyway, GNU cat, when given no options (other than -u, --version, and. >--help) uses read and write with the optimal block size (as reported >by stat). 4@kf8nh:501 B$ cat -? cat: illegal option -- ? Usage: cat [-benstuvAET] [--number] [--number-nonblank] [--squeeze-blank] [--show-nonprinting] [--show-ends] [--show-tabs] [--show-all] [file...] This "cat" claims to be from "GNU textutils version 1.3" (I had to use "strings|grep" because neither -V nor --version works). ...You were saying? ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery kf8nh@kf8nh.ampr.org bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org "MSDOS didn't get as bad as it is overnight -- it took over ten years of careful development." ---dmeggins@aix1.uottawa.ca ------------------------------ From: bernhard@trick.ani.univie.ac.at (Bernhard Strassl) Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.motif Subject: Re: TCL/Tk vs Motif/C++ or TCL/Tk with C++? Date: 24 Nov 1993 15:33:51 GMT In article <2cregi$4cs@steffi.demon.co.uk>, robert@steffi.demon.co.uk (Robert Nicholson) writes: |> hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) wrote |> >Big Flame Thrower on :-) |> > |> >Check out SimCity Demo for what tcl/tk is capable of. |> >BTW: At work I developed a mini network management platform all based |> >in tcl/tk/snmp/expect and it works like a charm. |> > |> >I say that is far easier to develop X oriented apps using tk than |> >Motif and save an order of magnitute of develpment time and |> >size of the application. |> > |> >Amancio |> > |> > |> > |> >-- |> >This message brought to you by the letters X and S and the number 3 |> >Amancio Hasty | |> >Home: (415) 495-3046 | ftp-site depository of all my work: |> >e-mail hasty@netcom.com | sunvis.rtpnc.epa.gov:/pub/386bsd/X |> |> Can we stop this TCL/TK is better than Motif thread? I see them as |> being orthogonal products. TCL hasn't the feature set nor the |> elegance to be considered "suitable" for large application development |> work. Do people advocating TCL know the benefits of Object-Oriented |> Design? Sorry 'send' just doesn't cut it for me I'm afraid. |> |> I will accept that TK is suitable for whipping up prototype (abeit, |> throw away ones but maybe that's actually an advantage. :-)) |> applications or relatively small applications that require little maintenance. |> A very good one that I use regularly is Tkman by Tom Phelps. |> |> I'd certainly be interested in a discussion of the merits of TCL/TK |> mixed with C++ though for application development. |> |> Personally I'd like to see a tklib written in C or C++ rather than |> relying on tcl bindings. |> I'm also wondering about the advantages TCL/TK can have over a well designed UI class framework in any object oriented environment (except saving the effort of learning an OO language). Having a look at Tcl scripts they seem not to be much smaller or easier to write than aequivalent Smalltalk samples. I personally prefer C++ but this is not the place for another ST/C++ flame war ;-) Again, why should one use TCL/TK instead of an OO framework? Can anyone enlight me? -bernhard =============================================================== The Xm++ / CommonInteract Project Vienna User Interface Group Bernhard Strassl University of Vienna xmplus@ani.univie.ac.at Dpt. for Applied Computer Science and Information Systems =============================================================== ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help From: hare@mathi.uni-heidelberg.de (Hannes Reinecke) Subject: Re: Linux/XFree 2.0/Mach32 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 16:43:00 GMT Robert Morris (rmorris@mv.mv.com) wrote: : I'm having a problem with XFree2.0 and Linux during : installation. : I can't get X to start. I've set my monitor "modes" : correctly. X just trashes my screen - the system : still responds, but I can't see what I'm doing. I : have to reboot. I've been working on this for a : whole week. : I have a Gateway 2000 Local Bus 486 with an ATI : ultra pro with 2MB of VRAM. First I installed : linux. Then I updated it with XFree86 2.0 [Stuff deleted] : HELP?? I'm using the same card. There are some points to mention if you got an ATI ultra pro: - The clocks line is different for the different makes of cards. The card (i.e. the driver) didn't complain, but you didn't get the expected resolution. Check which line works for you. (Check carefully. You get funny results if you don't) - You couldn't set the Virtual Resolution to whatever you want; instead it has to be multiples of ( sorry. didn't remember. ). But for my card (Same as yours; one of the famous not-for-sale OEM cards ) did 'Virtual 1400 1200' work well. (This isn't the whole 2MB, but the next multiple would be far beyond 2MB.) - With my card, I could use a clocks line without 'Ext' entries in it. If you didn't, replace them with '0.00'. Should (?) work. Or get another clocks line. - And of course, the well-known 80 MHz barrier: The card DID support clocks up to 135 MHz, but the XFree86 Server DIDN'T. Complains are useless. ( I heard about a patch to change this. Check comp.os.windows.i386 for it. I think it wouldn't last long. There seemed to be LOTS of ATI ultra pro sold. ) My card worked ( after the few minor adjustments ) quite well. Hope this helps Hannes (hare@vogon.mathi.uni-heidelberg.de) P.S.: Be careful with your card. 2 of our 3 card got blasted after 2 months. : Thank YOu. : Rob ------------------------------ From: wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Kai Petzke) Subject: Re: Pentium & gcc ??? Date: 24 Nov 1993 14:03:32 GMT In <2ctdi8$e5a@news.belwue.de> 613918@rhds11.rz.fht-esslingen.de (Markus Krug) writes: >Hello folks, >Does anybody knows, if there will become a Pentium support for the >GCC compiler ??? >What I mean is, if someone is working on compiler flag for special >support and using of the Pentium architecture ??? (like it exists for 486) I read someone mentioning earlier, that Richard Stallman (head of GNU and major writer of GCC) said something like (sorry, I remember this - I do not have a copy of that message): "A pentium is only a fast 386. GCC already supports it." Yes, we would like an -m586 optimizing option. But we also like a processor, which we can afford. Right now, Intel tries many legel issues against their competitors. Their goal is to be the only producer of fast 386 compatible chips. The 486 is still overpriced. When you take a look at the prices of AMD, they aren't much cheaper. Probably AMD agreed to not start a price war and Intel agreed to stop the legal war. If Intel started licensing the Pentium tomorrow, it is very likely, that GNU started to work on a -m586 option. Kai -- Kai wpp@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de Advertisement by Microsoft in a well-known German magazine: If you don't like our programmes, than make your own ones. However, they expect you to use Microsoft products for this -:) ------------------------------ From: quillen@hal.cvm.msu.edu (Edward O Quillen) Subject: Re: [Q] Big modem installation for Linux? Date: 24 Nov 1993 17:14:04 GMT Here at MSU we run Xylogic annex servers for modem access allowing telnet,slip,ppp,... This is an ethernet solution and would only require one card for the Linux machine. The problem is the cost of the terminal servers. An 16 port MicroAnnex costs around $1900. -- Edward Quillen eoq@vthnw.cvm.msu.edu Work#:(517)353-5551 ------------------------------ From: skj@oasis.icl.co.uk (Simon Johnston) Subject: shql? anyone Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 16:07:37 GMT Has anyone got the shql package (perl/shell SQL implementation) which they can email me. I only have access to ftpmail which is currently down a lot. Thanks everyone MODULE Sig; FROM ICL IMPORT StdDisclaimer; FROM Interests IMPORT Modula2, Modula3, Linux, OS2; BEGIN (* ------------------------------------------------------------------------. |Simon K. Johnston - Development Engineer |ICL Retail Systems | |------------------------------------------------------|3/4 Willoughby Road| |Unix Mail : S.K.Johnston.bra0801@oasis.icl.co.uk |Bracknell, Berks | |Telephone : +44 (0)344 476320 Fax: +44 (0)344 476084|United Kingdom | |Internal : 7621 6320 OP Mail: S.K.Johnston@BRA0801|RG12 8TJ | `------------------------------------------------------------------------ *) END Sig. ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.infosystems.www,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.windows.x.motif,gnu.misc.discuss,comp.sources.d From: lendl@cosy.sbg.ac.at (Otmar Lendl) Subject: Free Software and Motif (was: Re: Don't use Motif for free sw:...) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 16:59:25 GMT Keenan Ross wrote: >I just wanted to emphasize this last sentence in Marc Andreessen's post. >This technique seems applicable to all Motif programs and is a good reason >to keep up your academic contacts. > >marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Marc Andreessen) writes: >|> distant future; remember, all it really takes is someone with an >|> academic site license for Motif and a Linux box to make a binary >|> everyone can use, or donate us a development system and we'll do >|> it. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this lead to the following reasoning: If I write some freeware Motif software and want to distribute the statically linked version freely, I just send the sources to somebody with an academic site license who makes the binaries and puts them onto some ftp-server. Or is there a clause in the license that only locally developed software is covered ? Anyway, if this is valid, I don't actually need my friend with the license, for the binaries I generate, and those he can generate are probably identical, so nobody can tell who made them. Thus one is inclined to reason that from all free motif apps, which come with source, a freely redistributeable static binary can be made. IMHO the technicallity of actually compiling it at (for example) NCSA is irrelevant. This leads me to the following suggestion to OSF: Make the distribution of statically linked binaries royality-free, as long as the sources of the application is also distributed with the binary. This policy should not affect commercial software, for I hardly get the sources for them. But it would allow the continuing developement of free software based on Motif. Comments ? otmar -- | Otmar Lendl (lendl@cosy.sbg.ac.at) | University of Salzburg / Austria | | http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/people/lendl.html | Don't point the finger at me | | I am only a rat in a maze like you. And only the dead go free. - R. Waters | ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Development-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.development) via: Internet: Linux-Development@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Development Digest ******************************