From: Digestifier To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 03:24:36 EDT Subject: Linux-Development Digest #171 Linux-Development Digest #171, Volume #1 Mon, 18 Oct 93 03:24:36 EDT Contents: Re: Linux System Administration Tools (Frank Lofaro) Other Yggdrasil problems (Was: Can't install Yggdrasil - a workaround found.) (Rick) Re: Scanner-Driver (Rick) Re: /dev not needed? (Brandon S. Allbery) Re: /dev not needed? (System Overlord) Re: [Q]Anyone working on Cyrix 486DLC cache coherency probs ? (Donald J. Becker) Linux Kernel Hackers' Guide released (Michael K. Johnson) Re: Can't install Yggdrasil - a workaround found. (Philippe Bonal) *** Survey Summary of Questions Posted to c.o.l.d and c.o.l.a *** (Byron A Jeff) Re: Can't install Yggdrasil - a workaround found. (Kevin Brown) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ftlofaro@unlv.edu (Frank Lofaro) Subject: Re: Linux System Administration Tools Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 01:27:48 GMT In article <750687807.19357@minster.york.ac.uk> al-b@minster.york.ac.uk writes: >In article <1993Oct12.163429.656@cathy.ijs.si> Andrej.Bauer@ijs.si (Andrej Bauer) writes: >>Dear Developers, >> >>is there anybody working on System Administration Tools for Linux? >>I think it would be nice to have an intelligent and easy-to-use >>program for Linux's System Administration (something like SAM for HP-UX, >>only more intelligent -- it should be very very smart). >> >>If anybody knows of a project or people who are working on this, >>please tell me. If such a project does not exist yet, anybody >>who is interested is welcome to contact me. >> >>Andrej >> >>------------------- >>Andrej.Bauer@IJS.si >>------------------- > >I think I had heard something about a port of SMIT sometime in spring >(ie. before Easter). Anyone know anything about that? > >SMIT is the System Management Interface Tool used on IBM RS/6000 machines. >I've never actually used it, because I'm not root on our IBM :-( > >Andrew. > Ugh, that monstrosity from AIX. I've heard it is a real pain, and always in the way. Maybe the menu package that SLS co-opted for itself, maybe that could be set-up for system administration. Much better idea. ------------------------------ From: pclink@qus102.qld.tne.oz.au (Rick) Subject: Other Yggdrasil problems (Was: Can't install Yggdrasil - a workaround found.) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 00:07:54 GMT There are a couple of other problems with the Fall Yggdrasil CDROM. I've forwarded them to Yggdrasil (and Rik Faith), but I thought I'd post them here in case anybody else is having problems. 1. The install script (INSTALL/install) doesn't handle the case of no swap. 2. fdisk crashes if the drive controller returns an unexpected disk geometry (which makes it difficult to install!). Also, If the first drive in a system has more partitions than the second, the fdisk -l performed by the install script pads out the partition listing of the second drive with the partitions detected on the first. Potentially confusing for newbies. Also note that /etc/init expects reboot to be in /usr/bin, but it's located in /bin. Of course, to fix these, you'll need a minimal development system - either an old linux installation, or a cd-dependant install on an existing partition. And some nitpicking: 3. If you boot from the supplied floppy, the demo won't run on an 8Mb machine (insufficient mem). Should be mentioned in the manual somewhere. 4. It would have been nice to have included a more recent poeigl, and Miquel van Smoorenburg's SysV init (instead of the dated one in admutils). 5. No selection-1.5 (kernel support, but no program). 6. Kernel recompile requires IN2000 support, but a quick #ifdef CONFIG_IN2000/#else/#endif fixed that. 7. asteroids needed a patch (XGrabKeyboard in plot.xwin.c) before I could use it - now I don't need to go to the arcade :-)! Great product, tho. I'll probably like it even better when I get around to cleaning out my disk and installing it. Rick. *** /system_cd/INSTALL/install Sat Sep 18 00:06:16 1993 --- install Thu Oct 14 22:44:41 1993 *************** *** 77,83 **** on which configuration you choose: cd_dependent The system runs from the CDROM. Only enough ! (1 megabyte) software to mount the CDROM plus any files that you create or modify are stored on the hard disk. runtime A small set of programs including a tiny --- 77,83 ---- on which configuration you choose: cd_dependent The system runs from the CDROM. Only enough ! (2 megabyte) software to mount the CDROM plus any files that you create or modify are stored on the hard disk. runtime A small set of programs including a tiny *************** *** 287,293 **** elif [ $ans = abort ]; then echo Process aborted. exit 1 ! elif [ $ans = $swap ]; then echo echo "You have already selected $ans as your swap partition." elif [ ! -b $ans ]; then --- 287,293 ---- elif [ $ans = abort ]; then echo Process aborted. exit 1 ! elif [ .$ans = .$swap ]; then echo echo "You have already selected $ans as your swap partition." elif [ ! -b $ans ]; then *************** *** 327,338 **** elif [ $ans = abort ]; then echo Process aborted. exit 1 ! elif [ $ans = $swap ]; then echo echo "You have already selected $ans as your swap partition." - elif [ $ans = $root ]; then - echo - echo "You have already selected $ans as your root partition." elif [ ! -b $ans ]; then echo echo $ans is not a block device. --- 327,335 ---- elif [ $ans = abort ]; then echo Process aborted. exit 1 ! elif [ .$ans = .$swap ]; then echo echo "You have already selected $ans as your swap partition." elif [ ! -b $ans ]; then echo echo $ans is not a block device. *** /system_cd/usr/src/sbin/fdisk-1.4/fdisk.c Tue Aug 10 12:38:53 1993 --- fdisk.c Thu Oct 14 20:56:07 1993 *************** *** 294,302 **** { int val = 0; if (!*m) ! printf("You must set"); else { ! printf(" %s", *m); val = 1; } *m = mesg; --- 294,302 ---- { int val = 0; if (!*m) ! fprintf(stderr, "You must set"); else { ! fprintf(stderr, " %s", *m); val = 1; } *m = mesg; *************** *** 410,415 **** --- 410,416 ---- int i; struct hd_geometry geometry; + partitions = 4; if ((fd = open(disk_device, O_RDWR)) < 0) fatal(unable_to_open); if (SECTOR_SIZE != read(fd, buffer, SECTOR_SIZE)) *************** *** 659,665 **** uint lbc, lbh, lbs; /* logical beginning c, h, s */ uint lec, leh, les; /* logical ending c, h, s */ ! if (partition >= 4) return; /* do not check extended partitions */ /* physical beginning c, h, s */ pbc = p->cyl & 0xff | (p->sector << 2) & 0x300; --- 660,666 ---- uint lbc, lbh, lbs; /* logical beginning c, h, s */ uint lec, leh, les; /* logical ending c, h, s */ ! if (!heads || !sectors || partition >= 4) return; /* do not check extended partitions */ /* physical beginning c, h, s */ pbc = p->cyl & 0xff | (p->sector << 2) & 0x300; ------------------------------ From: pclink@qus102.qld.tne.oz.au (Rick) Subject: Re: Scanner-Driver Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 00:20:20 GMT kai@fix.kmk.rhein-main.de (Kai Kretschmann) writes: >One should classify how many hardware types of scanners are in the market. >I think some vendors sell the same hardware with different or even the same >outfit. I myself would like to use a Mustek 800, I think we have three types >of handscanners: >1) Scanman >2) GS4500 >3) Marstek/Mustek >There might be some common features so we should merge all existing drivers, >shake a lot, and lets see if we get a universal driver for them. Although I don't have access to any scanners apart from the GS4500, I wrote the code such that the scanner detection routines can be added to a table, and made the interface sufficiently generic (ie, really simple) that it shouldn't be too much of a pain to merge multiple scanner drivers. >PS: If we get the drivers working, how are the used? Under X? And what software >gets the data? Or does the driver only create an image file for further >convertion using PBM-Tools? The output from the scanner device is raw pixel data. There is program included with the scanner driver that converts this data into a PBM file, so to view a picture is as simple as: testscan | xv - Of course, this presupposes X. If you don't want to use X, save the output of testscan in a file, and manipulate it as you like. I belive there is a program in netland that allows viewing pictures using vgalib, so it should be possible to convert the PBM file into a format that the viewer understands. Low on my list of things to do is add scanner support to xv and xpaint. It's not a high priority because the current way of scanning a pic (testscan > junk) is simple enough. If the scanner driver gets more widely used, and there are requests from users, I might up the priority. Rick. ------------------------------ From: bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) Subject: Re: /dev not needed? Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 02:05:43 GMT In article <750898277snxwomble@spuddy.UUCP> sweh.womble@spuddy.UUCP (Stephen Harris) writes: >Was in the shower and had this strange idea: > >/dev isn't really needed anymore. Most (all?) of the functionality it >provides could be done using extensions to /proc filesystem. Sounds suspiciously like Solaris 2's /devices directory. /dev consists solely of symlinks to the real device nodes in /devices. The difference being that Solaris 2's device probe only takes place if you "boot -r"; otherwise, the original contents of /devices is retained. ("boot -r" also takes care of maintaining the links from /dev to /devices, and of creating pseudo-device nodes such as ptys. The latter would be unnecessary with a proc-based mechanism; Solaris 2's /devices is solely based on the result of a hardware probe.) ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery kf8nh@kf8nh.ampr.org bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org "MSDOS didn't get as bad as it is overnight -- it took over ten years of careful development." ---dmeggins@aix1.uottawa.ca ------------------------------ From: kender@executor (System Overlord) Subject: Re: /dev not needed? Date: 18 Oct 93 02:54:57 GMT Reply-To: kender@esu.edu [ Suggestion to remove /dev deleted ] How about all the software out there that currently expects/uses things in /dev? I.e. terminal stuff that looks for /dev/tty, etc... etc... Granted, all that stuff can be ported/recompiled/reconfigured, but do _you_ want to handle that? (Note: if /proc/dev is an exact mirror of the way that /dev looks right now, perhaps a symlink would work? perhaps not *shrug*) D -- |Dan Garcia,Kender@esu.edu| Lack of respect for those who came before us, | |#include | Lack of concern for those who come after us, | |Coram Deo|Death to Barney| This is what will in the end destory us. | | GCS/MU d--() -p+ c++(c+) l++ u+ e+(*) m++(*) s !n h f+ !g w+ t++(--) r+ !y | ------------------------------ From: becker@super.org (Donald J. Becker) Subject: Re: [Q]Anyone working on Cyrix 486DLC cache coherency probs ? Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 00:51:34 GMT In article , Christopher Lau wrote: >df@eyrie.demon.co.uk (Derek Fawcus) writes: >> 1 NC1 If 1 sets 640k to 1M as non-cachable > >NC1 is set by the DOS driver software.. Unix definitely won't benefit from >this, but shouldn't caching the system and video ROMs improve DOS performance >a bit? (my benchmarks don't show any difference) Shared memory interfaces, like some ethercards and SCSI controllers, sit in the 640K-1M region. Caching those regions will result in, uhmmm, "a marked decrease in system performance" ;->. I _would_ like to see the X server running with caching enabled there -- could be cosmic;->. -- Donald Becker becker@super.org IDA Supercomputing Research Center 17100 Science Drive, Bowie MD 20715 301-805-7482 ------------------------------ From: johnsonm@SunSite.unc.edu (Michael K. Johnson) Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.announce Subject: Linux Kernel Hackers' Guide released Date: 18 Oct 1993 03:55:49 GMT Reply-To: johnsonm@SunSite.unc.edu (Michael K. Johnson) The Linux Kernel Hackers' Guide (the KHG), one of the Linux Documentation Project (the LDP) books, is now officially in "BETA". It is still very limited in scope, but hopefully is more useful to people interested in the Linux kernel than the earlier releases. It will be of use primarily to people trying to write device drivers and to people trying to write extensions to the proc filesystem. The memory management stuff is a little out of date, but I am waiting to work on that until the memory management is sorted out, as it appears to be in a state of flux. It is available as both tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/docs/LDP/khg* and sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/docs/LDP/kernel-hackers-guide/*. The source is available in a tar file, and there are also PostScript and DVI files available. I am not yet providing ASCII, groff, or any other type of output format, and I will not worry about providing any of those formats until the KHG is reasonably stable, most likely. michaelkjohnson The LSM file follows: Title = Linux Kernel Hackers' Guide Version = 0.5 BETA Desc1 = This is a guide to programming the Linux kernel. It is Desc2 = not nearly complete, but should help at least people Desc3 = trying to write device drivers and extensions to the Desc4 = proc filesystem, and perhaps others. Author = Michael K. Johnson AuthorEmail = (johnsonm@sunsite.unc.edu) Site1 = tsx-11.mit.edu Path1 = /pub/linux/docs/LDP/ File1 = khg-0.5.{tar,dvi,ps}.gz FileSize1 = 200K Site2 = sunsite.unc.edu Path2 = /pub/Linux/docs/LDP/khg/ File2 = khg-0.5.{tar,dvi,ps}.gz Required1 = LaTeX to re-format the tar Required2 = dvi driver to print the dvi Required3 = Postscript device (preferably capable of 300 dpi) to Required4 = print the ps CopyPolicy1 = Pretty free, standard LDP copyright, with extensions. Keywords = Linux kernel LDP doc document devices Comment1 = I'm still working on this, but I am releasing it so that Comment2 = others can use what is there. I ask in return for your Comment3 = help -- please notify me of factual errors and ommisions, Comment4 = and be willing to help me research things that I am missing. ------------------------------ From: philb@blips.frmug.fr.net (Philippe Bonal) Subject: Re: Can't install Yggdrasil - a workaround found. Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 03:12:25 +0100 Reply-To: philb@frmug.fr.net tytso@athena.mit.edu (Theodore Ts'o) writes: [..] > However, if you're looking for a way to flush your buffer cache, there's > a simple little program to do this. It's part of my e2fsck > distribution, since I want to flush my buffer cache before timing how > fast e2fsck runs. It's a small enough program that I'll just append it > at the end of this message. > sync is doing that yet ? isn't it ? +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ philb@frmug.fr.net Philippe Bonal (France) Please,Not email > 25k without philb@blips.frmug.fr.net bonal_p@epita.fr inform me, No NeXT mail +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.misc Subject: *** Survey Summary of Questions Posted to c.o.l.d and c.o.l.a *** Date: 18 Oct 93 05:17:56 GMT Well if you've been reading any of the linux newsgroups you are aware of the raging debate going on about the quantity and types of questions to the newsgroup comp.os.linux.development. I decided to start asking folks who post questions on c.o.l.d and c.o.l.admin why they put their questions there. I've done this simply by E-mailing a survey question to the original poster and saving the replies. Maybe we can use this info to make some intelligent decisions about how to manage questions in the linux hierarchy. Here is the summary so far. Anonymous of course. I have been indiscriminate of the type of question posted. Every new question that has been posted to c.o.l.d or c.o.l.admin I've send a survey to. This is about 5 days of summaries. I plan to continue my survey and post a cumulative summary every week or so. All followups to this post should go to comp.os.linux.misc so as not to stir up any more traffic in the other groups. I've set the follow to c.o.l.m. Please feel free to comment on the contents of this. I've asked the respondents if they minded an anonymous summary and no one has objected so far. First the survey E-Mail: ========================================================================== Hi, I can't help on your problem. I'm conducting an informal survey. I wanted to know why you posted a question to comp.os.linux.development when the comp.os.linux.help group is specifically for questions? It's no problem to me and no flame to you. I'm just trying to gather info so that I can intelligently respond to folks when they ask me this question. There is a big debate going on in the linux newsgroups over this topic. Also I wanted to know if you objected to an anonymous summary of your answer at some later time. Thanks and waiting for your reply, BAJ ========================================================================== Now here are the answers I got so far. Topic, date and reply only. I've edited as appropriate. My comments are in [brackets]. ========================================================================== Wed Oct 13 13:22:23 1993 Subject: Re: Xconfig! > > > If anyone has Linux configured with the trident 8900c 1meg > >and they have a Microsoft Busmouse working could you please post your > >xconfig. > > Even if you've just got a trident svga 8900c 1meg configured > >properly and have a mouse (any mouse) could you post your xconfig. > > > [ Survey question ] Well I'm new to the Lunix world and have just started to see what the internet can do for you. I thought if I posted my question across all the bases I`d get a faster reply. ========================================================================== Thu Oct 14 03:57:46 1993 Subject: Re: xarchie: UDP > 1024??? > >Hi all, > > > >I've tried to install xarchie, but the problem is that linux seems to > >be not able to handle an udp-port larger thatn 1024 . The testprogramm > >supplied by xarchie (udp.c) gives only an result when invoked as udp > >-d, which means that an port smaller than 1024 is used. > > > >Can someone tell me, how I can enable supprot for higher ports (linux > >0.99.pl13/slackware) > [Survey question] Hi Byron, well before posting this message to *.admin I thought about where to post it. I was not not sure if to post it to *.help or even to *.developement. What made me to post it to *.admin was finally the instructions for installation of xarchie, which said it UDP-ports larger than 1024 arn't support I should contact my local systemadministrator. ========================================================================== Thu Oct 14 11:38:27 1993 Subject: Re: Linux version of "select" > [Survey Question] Comp.os.linux.help is overwhelmed with questions about SLS and other non- programming related topics. Since I'm developing a game which will run on Linux and since the question was specifically releated to a Linux system call, I thought comp.os.linux.development was the right group to post to. > It's no problem to me and no flame to you. No problem. Oh, by the way, I always have my asbest and shrapnel vests on ! Just kidding .. *<8O) ========================================================================== Thu Oct 14 12:16:19 1993 Subject: Re: Has anyone written a Mac FS or Mac FS Access utilities for Linux or 386BSD? I posted it to the .development groups because we are interested in developing such a file system and don't want to duplicate the work of other developers. .help usually deals with completed, or at least released work. ========================================================================== Fri Oct 15 14:13:46 1993 Subject: Re: **** GCC 2.4.5 and Profiling ***** [ In my opinion I think the poster thought I was flaming him. I'm leaving the entire post including the survey question because of this. ] > > Hi, > > I can't help on your problem. I'm conducting an informal survey. I wanted > to know why you posted a question to comp.os.linux.development when the > comp.os.linux.help group is specifically for questions. > > It's no problem to me and no flame to you. I'm just trying to gather info > so that I can intelligently respond to folks when they ask this question. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You imply my question to be dump ? > There is a bit debate going on in the newsgroups over this topic. > Hi Byron, I believe I can post for requesting help in c.o.l.d because I have problem with gcc and profiling, and I need profiling to do development under linux. Do you understand the term development only kernel hacking or those who attempt to do that or who already contributed a lot to LINUX, e.g. Linus T. ? The compiler is one of the central part of an OS, maybe my request points out a general problem, a feature leak and so it is of common interest. Due to this it is not only a help request ! Just remember it went fine with gcc 2.3.3. Hope, You means the same thing as I do, with profiling I surely do not mean .profile for bash (actually in discussed in c.o.l.help) but execution profile of a program at runtime, how often a function was called and how much time it consumed. Because you ask me to post to c.o.l.help and in the context of the actual discusion on c.o.l.d (see "Questions are permitted on c.o.l.d") I feel very confused, sad and a bit ill about that what is going on and due to this you receive this flame like reply. BTW, I am the one of many who voted for the c.o.l.* and believe to know where questions should be posted to. Before my posting I already investigate lots of time to find out what are missing, I compliled gcc my self and check every files to find out if I could generate the needed files myself. Hope, You will be aware by judging what should belong to c.o.l.d and what not. Sory, You will receive this email with a bit delay. My own private host is connected via uucp, I use to call out only once a day for emails and news. If you can, your help will be greatly appreciated. ========================================================================== Fri Oct 15 19:50:44 1993 Subject: Re: [Q]: PCMCIA driver for Linux? Ah... Reason for posting to c.o.l.d. Seemed to be the best place to ask on a question about development of hardware... I wasn't too sure about posting it myself, which is why I made it short and simple. ========================================================================== Sun Oct 17 18:00:13 1993 Subject: Re: How Do I make a boot disk? > [Survey deleted] Didn't notice the group .help, and frankly wasn't looking if an admin group exists for a specific OS then I use that because it tends to be the place most of the expertise is. ========================================================================== Sun Oct 17 07:32:22 1993 Subject: Re: Quota os NFS ? > [Survey Deleted] Pure sfortune...I do not know very well quotas or nfs handling, so errounesly I thought that this limitation was caused by the nfs-software of linux not enough advanced. About 15 minutes AFTER I posted the article I discovered that this is in fact normal behaviour and NOT a Linux-problem :( ========================================================================== Sat Oct 16 14:08:11 1993 Subject: Re: Shadow Passwords? > [Survey deleted] Becuase password problems are an administrative issue, are they not? If the .admin group is NOT for administrative concerns, then perhaps it should be rm'd. ========================================================================== Sat Oct 16 11:42:07 1993 Subject: Re: cross-referencing > [Survey deleted] Simply because I was under the impression that development also referred to applications development under Linux. And I was under the impression that the help group was more oriented towards user-type questions, such as network setup, Xwindows setup, etc., etc. ========================================================================== Sat Oct 16 06:08:28 1993 Subject: Re: lost+found cleanup ? > [ Summary deleted ] I thought my question was a pure administration problem - not installation or bug problem. It is sometimes hard to tell apart then one uses c.o.l.misc... :) ========================================================================== Fri Oct 15 21:22:58 1993 Subject: Re: Dos + Linux 2 Controllers > [ Survey deleted] Because, at least to me, this seems like an ADMIN type problem. The Help group would seem to be one where people would ask "how does 'ls' work" or what file do I edit when I want aliases to be recognized upon login? Aren't questions about administration type problems supposed to be asked in an admin group? I don't believe that you will be able to gear all the questions that people will ask to a certain news group just by posting "post only discussion about X here" because possibly people, like me, may not read these messages due to time/work whatever. BTW: Should ALL linux questions go to linux.help? This seems rather unreasonable. ========================================================================== Fri Oct 15 20:13:15 1993 Subject: Re: Is a MAC FS under development? > [ Survey Deleted ] No problem. The reason for this post in c.o.l.d was basically because of topic. This particular group was created for communication on system development issues (kernel, file systems, device drivers, difficult porting, etc). Since this question concerned the development of a particular fs support, I posted it here. Simple enough? :) AS to the c.o.l.h vs c.o.l.h... c.o.l.h is for general help, ie, 'how do I get such and such a program to work?', 'why am I getting this error?', 'how can I make this compile', etc, etc. Any issue that relates to LINUX DEVELOPMENT belongs in here (c.o.linux.development :). There are in fact some questions that may fit into both groups, as they have a fine overlap area. Unlike c.o.l.a there was no condition stating that no questions of any sort would be allowed in c.o.l.d when we voted/split. It is my personal opinion that questions definately contribute to the developmental process, so long as they are appropriate. As to the occasional 'off-topic' posts that end up in c.o.l.d. I just don't read them, or if I do, I respond via email. There is no reason to generate even more garbage in the group. 'off-topic' is not defined (defining it in a weekly post of some sort would be a good idea), and therefore opinions will vary. There will always be a stray post or two (or three, or four), especially with new lnux users every day. There is no reason to discourage these new users with 'flames', or irk your fellow c.o.l.d reader with more off-topic posting. Simply moving off-topic discussion to other c.o.l or private channels will maintain efficiency. ========================================================================== --- Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of... Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel! Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu ------------------------------ From: kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) Subject: Re: Can't install Yggdrasil - a workaround found. Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 04:21:20 GMT In article <29ph4d$9p6@news.delphi.com> cshaulis@news.delphi.com (CSHAULIS@DELPHI.COM) writes: [I wrote:] >: [Remove media] >: : [Insert media] >: >:And then I can mount the disk or do whatever, and know that the buffer cache >:has been appropriately reloaded. > >Correct me if I'm wrong, but shuoldn't the mount and unmount commands be >employed at some point prior to or just after inserting or removing the >media? Yeah. I wasn't exactly complete about the above. The sequence I use to get mounting/umounting to work properly and reliably is: umount /dev/sdbx [remove media] This is your .signature virus on drugs: <> Any questions? ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Development-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.development) via: Internet: Linux-Development@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Development Digest ******************************