From: Digestifier To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 15:13:13 EDT Subject: Linux-Development Digest #101 Linux-Development Digest #101, Volume #1 Thu, 16 Sep 93 15:13:13 EDT Contents: Re: What do people think about /config? (Jon Hamilton) Re: Help! Seyon does not release modem (hugo@rusthoff.hacktic.nl) Re: ftp and ftpd pretty broke (Andreas Helke) Re: Kernel totaly in machine code? (Alan Cox) Parallel Port sound drivers - how compatiable? ("Dan Newcombe") Re: Status of Debian release ? (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki) What do people think about /config? (Russell Nelson) What do people think about /config? (Russell Nelson) Re: GCC, is it a bug or isn't it? (John Henders) how to upgrade linux? (SURYARAO TIPPARAJU) Make >1.44M floppies standard in kernel? (York Lam - ACPS/F93) Re: To all device driver writers; boot-time messages. (Eric Johnson) true device driver? (Yousuf Khan) Re: What do people think about /config? (Miquel van Smoorenburg,,,) Re: Anybody ever try crashme on Linux? (M. Mueller) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jdh@iastate.edu (Jon Hamilton) Subject: Re: What do people think about /config? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 12:35:02 GMT In article <93091616895@caution.cistron.nl.mugnet.org> miquels@caution.cistron.nl.mugnet.org (Miquel van Smoorenburg,,,) writes: >In article <748100210snx@crynwr.com> nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes: >>As anyone has noticed, there are many programs that have >>configuration files. And, these configuration files all have their >>own format. I've been thinking that we can do better than that. > [...] > >Maybe this could even be one big database, or otherwise a set of files >with the same layout. Something like a 'generic resource file' with >a consistent format. And when something bad happens and the database gets hosed everything on the system that uses a config file quite working? No thanks. You'd also have to rewite an awful lot of software to make it use this. >>And, no matter what kind of idiosyncratic file you've got to create, >>you can add comments to the config file (e.g. /etc/passwd cannot have >>comments, but /config/passwd can). And any software that you get from elsewhere has to be modified to look at /config/passwd instead of /etc/passwd. Ick. >The idea is good. And certainly in the beginning easier than adding >kernel features for it. By the time you get done, you're going to have something that only remotely resembles unix. Many people may not care, but I suspect most would just as soon not see that. >>Semantics: >> >[ deleted. The idea of using perl scripts here is tempting. Hmm, gotta > learn perl sometime :-) ] And so would everybody else. Not good for newbies at all, and even old unix hackers would have to relearn a bunch of stuff. > >>-russ What canst *thou* say? >>Crynwr Software Crynwr Software sells packet driver support. >>11 Grant St. 315-268-1925 Voice | LPF member - ask me about >>Potsdam, NY 13676 315-268-9201 FAX | the harm software patents do. >> >> > >Mike. > >-- > >| Miquel van Smoorenburg, | >| Chips - the dope of the nineties. You may carry them with you, | >| but they are more expensive per kilo than cocaine. | > -- ==================================================================== = Jon Hamilton | "I guess irony can be pretty ironic sometimes" = = jdh@iastate.edu | -- Airplane = ==================================================================== ------------------------------ From: hugo@rusthoff.hacktic.nl Subject: Re: Help! Seyon does not release modem Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 19:30:00 CET hugo@rusthoff.hacktic.nl writes: >totake@ho10.eng.ua.edu () writes: > >>Hi everyone, I've run Sewyon successfulyy but when I exit it and at a >>later time try to run it again it says that it can't find the modem >>(/dev/cua2). I've checked the /usr/spool/uucp directory but nothing there. >>Could anyone help me? Please reply by e-mail since this site currently >>carries only comp.os.linux and no other linux news groups. >> >>Thanks, >>Tom >> >> >>-- >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>\ Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception / >>\ of bad news, which obeys its own special laws. / >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>\\\\\\\\ Thomas Otake ///////// >>\\\\ totake@buster.eng.ua.edu \\_// 72570.3031@compuserve.com //// >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- > Created using rnf 0.76b >----- ===== Created using rnf 0.76b ===== ------------------------------ From: andreas@fly.mgen.uni-heidelberg.de (Andreas Helke) Subject: Re: ftp and ftpd pretty broke Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 12:55:13 GMT In article <27733t$cen@urmel.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> dak@messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (David Kastrup) writes: >This is SLS 1.03, the NET-2 type excutables. When trying mput *, >an error message like Improper directory sth comes, and after that, >even put does no longer work, with an occasional Segmentation >Violation and core dump. >mput * is BROKE,BROKE,BROKE! >Furthermore, when ftping into the thing, and listing a directory, >sometimes the thing simply breaks down. >N*O*W, I am going into linux with an ftp/ out of linux with a telnet from >a DOS box (NCSA telnet/ftp). It just *might* be that this program is >not *too* standard, BUT it should not be able to *break* ftp and ftpd, >especially since another Unix (isc) is getting along fine with that. >Linux/linux connections seem to work better (I have not checked the >mput bug, though), but this behaviour is intolerable. >And not too seldom the thing just crashes. >-- > David Kastrup dak@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de I have similar problems with ftp to non unix systems. I tried the combinations of Clarkson University FTP and QVTNET on the DOS side, and FTP and XFTP on the linux side. I do not get a directory at all from any side in the combination of DOS/UNIX or UNIX/DOS server and client. FTP to other UNIX systems works without any problems. I use at present the kernel 0.99pl11 and net-2. With my previous system 0.99pl9 and the old network programs, I could make ftp transfers between DOS and UNIX. Andreas - Andreas Helke, Molekulare Genetik, Universitaet Heidelberg, Germany email un69ef@genius.embnet.dkfz-heidelberg.de andreas@fly.mgen.uni-heidelberg.de andreas@fly is somewhat unreliable, it's on a Linux computer wich has its main duty as DOS/Windows computer and accepts mail only in its Unix incarnation. ------------------------------ From: iiitac@swan.pyr (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: Kernel totaly in machine code? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 12:09:49 GMT In article <2795r7INNge0@uwm.edu> albion@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Craig T Manske) writes: > >I was just wondering why parts of the kernel aren't in machine code? It >seems to me that at least the hard drive stuff would be much faster if it >were totaly in machine code. Primarily ease of maintenance and ease of development. Small pieces of code are assembler (eg tcp checksum, and bits of the IDE driver now). For most things the difference is tiny if anything because gcc is a good compiler and people like Linus seem to spend hours peering at the compiled output from gcc fine tuning the code in C to give the best assembler! It also means that Linux can be ported (eg the ongoing A3000 port). Alan ------------------------------ From: NEWCOMBE@AA.csc.Peachnet.EDU ("Dan Newcombe" ) Subject: Parallel Port sound drivers - how compatiable? Date: 16 Sep 1993 09:15:52 -0500 I have both the parallel port sound driver, and the new pc speaker sound driver that does parallel port sound (which I'm using.) MY question is, how compatiable are these with other sound functions? (output only of course.) Basically, If I got the sound patch to Xtank, would it work with these drivers? -Dan -- Daniel A. Newcombe Clayton State College Computing Services Morrow, GA 30260 E-Mail Address: newcombe@aa.csc.peachnet.edu (404)-961-3421 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - I know a mouse that hasn't got a house. I don't know why but I call him Jeremy. Pink Floyd, Bike ------------------------------ From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki) Subject: Re: Status of Debian release ? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 15:00:09 GMT [delitia] stephen@dogmatix.inmos.co.uk (Stephen Collyer) writes: >OK, a simple question: When is the Debian release going to appear. >So, are we talking weeks, months, vapourware or what ? Weeks at the least, months at the most. That's as much as I can say without talking to Ian himself. It is NOT vaporware. How's that for vague? :) Really, though, unless you want to wait a while you should go with something else. Keep track of the stuff you add so that when Debian comes out you can just back up your local stuff and then reinstall it after you reinstall Debian. Subscribe to the DEBIAN channel on the Linux mailing list for more information, or finger imurdock@sage.cc.purdue.edu for new announcements. -- Jason Balicki | kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu ------------------------------ From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) Subject: What do people think about /config? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 15:08:35 GMT In article <1993Sep15.180810.4389@news.uit.no> petterr@stud.cs.uit.no writes: First: all maskine-spesific config-files should go to /etc. Fine, but there are a lot of other things in /etc. Basicly I find it a bad idea. Users should not edit config-files if they don't know what they are doing. That's kind of elitist and exclusionary, isn't it? If we're gonna make just another Unix, only very low cost, why bother? Why not make it easier to use at the same time? Users without that knowledge should use spesific programs to change this info. What program would you use to edit /etc/passwd? /etc/bootptab? /etc/inittab? -russ What canst *thou* say? Crynwr Software Crynwr Software sells packet driver support. 11 Grant St. 315-268-1925 Voice | LPF member - ask me about Potsdam, NY 13676 315-268-9201 FAX | the harm software patents do. ------------------------------ From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) Subject: What do people think about /config? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 15:22:02 GMT In article jdh@iastate.edu writes: In article <748100210snx@crynwr.com> nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes: >And, no matter what kind of idiosyncratic file you've got to create, >you can add comments to the config file (e.g. /etc/passwd cannot have >comments, but /config/passwd can). And any software that you get from elsewhere has to be modified to look at /config/passwd instead of /etc/passwd. Ick. Nononono! /config/passwd is used to *create* /etc/passwd. And anyway, if programs are using getpwent, then they don't even have to know the format or name of /etc/passwd. >The idea is good. And certainly in the beginning easier than adding >kernel features for it. By the time you get done, you're going to have something that only remotely resembles unix. Many people may not care, but I suspect most would just as soon not see that. Hackers can still edit /etc/* and ignore /config. >>Semantics: >> >[ deleted. The idea of using perl scripts here is tempting. Hmm, gotta > learn perl sometime :-) ] And so would everybody else. Not good for newbies at all, and even old unix hackers would have to relearn a bunch of stuff. Nononono! The only person who needs to write a program is someone who's adding another type of configuration file to /config. And, the program can be written in any language, so long as it's executable. Shell scripts, awk scripts, perl scripts, C programs, whatever. Ordinary users can just edit the files in /config or run the config program. -russ What canst *thou* say? Crynwr Software Crynwr Software sells packet driver support. 11 Grant St. 315-268-1925 Voice | LPF member - ask me about Potsdam, NY 13676 315-268-9201 FAX | the harm software patents do. ------------------------------ From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders) Subject: Re: GCC, is it a bug or isn't it? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 10:53:25 GMT zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) writes: >I'm not sure what ANSI says about this but it is common in the transition >from MSDOS to unix (or at least GCC). It should look like: >#ifdef NEVER_DEFINED >#error Hey you dummy, you defined NEVER_DEFINED. >#endif This can't be true. Anything between an #ifdef and an #endif should not be parsed if it's not defined. According to A 12.5, in my K&Rv2, any text following an #ifdef that evaluates zero is discarded. I quote: "Text controlled by inactive arms of the conditional is ignored, except for checking the nesting of conditionals" Maybe strict_ansi has to be turned on. -- John Henders GO/MU/E d* -p+ c+++ l++ t- m--- s/++ g+ w+++ -x+ Segments are for Worms ------------------------------ From: tipparaju@lheavx.gsfc.nasa.gov (SURYARAO TIPPARAJU) Subject: how to upgrade linux? Date: 16 Sep 1993 12:05 EST Hai I will appreciate if some one can give me general guidelines to upgrade linux from one patch to higher one. Specifically, I need to upgrade my libraries. Thanks Suri Tipparaju tipparaju@lheavx.gsfc.nasa.gov rao@heasfs.gsfc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ From: ylam@acs.ryerson.ca (York Lam - ACPS/F93) Subject: Make >1.44M floppies standard in kernel? Date: 16 Sep 1993 16:44:58 GMT Are there any plans in making the floppy patches, for extra tracked/sectored disks, a standard part of the kernel? It never patched cleanly into the newer patch-levels. I probably should pulls diffs from what I got now (p11) for "future reference". York Lam ------------------------------ From: ejohnson@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu (Eric Johnson) Subject: Re: To all device driver writers; boot-time messages. Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 16:57:36 GMT In article <1993Sep15.145606.17303@super.org>, Donald J. Becker wrote: >Chance Reschke and I were preparing for yet-another-Linux-talk, this one for >the MU-SPIN conference, when the topic happened on the boot-time messages. He >had a few suggestion: [good common sense suggestions deleted] >Finally a related wish-list entry: a version of 'make config' that builds the >{autoconfig.h, .config} files without asking the questions. This can be used >by people that edit the 'config.in' defaults directly and don't want to answer >all of the questions again. > >Comments? Suggestions? I think this would be great. I edit config.in by default, also; in fact, I use my 'fast' machine to compile specific kernels for other machine(s). It would be nice to $ ln -s config.in-hostname config.in and have the make config 'taken care of' --Eric > >Donald Becker becker@super.org >IDA Supercomputing Research Center >17100 Science Drive, Bowie MD 20715 301-805-7482 -- --- Eric Johnson Maricopa Community Colleges ejohnson@pmip.maricopa.edu Tempe, AZ USA 602-731-8919 ------------------------------ From: ykhan@gandalf.ca (Yousuf Khan) Subject: true device driver? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 17:48:51 GMT We have some specialized cards that we have installed in our Linux PCs. We've created the drivers and they work fine. Now the question is this: We're using user mode code to drive these cards, and not true device drivers. Could somebody give me their subjective impressions about how much faster they think converting this code into a device driver code would make this? I realize that running this as a device driver would let it bypass all operating system checks because it'll run at privilege level zero. I'm not really looking to be bombarded with statistics about x86 clock counts at one privilege level over another, I know those already. I'm just trying to sound out the subjective impressions of anybody who has done it this way: ie. started out with user-mode code (using the /dev/port construct), and then ported it over to a true device driver. I'm not even too concerned about whether the driver that you ported had the same performance requirements that ours does, as I said, ours is working fine as just user-mode code, we're just after a bit more speed. What I'd like to know is what experiences others have gone through when porting it into a true device driver? For example, were you satisfied with the speed increase? Did the speed increase solve any compatibility problems? Did it create any compatibility problems? Did you feel the effort was worth it? Etc. Yousuf Khan -- Gandalf Technologies Inc. Creators of the ultimate network segment technologies in the whole south-western quadrant of the Virgo Galactic Supercluster. Yousuf J. Khan, Automated LAN testing systems designer. GTI would like to dissociate itself from any opinions I may express in the past, present, ------------------------------ From: miquels@caution.cistron.nl.mugnet.org (Miquel van Smoorenburg,,,) Subject: Re: What do people think about /config? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 17:37:47 In article jdh@iastate.edu (Jon Hamilton) writes: >In article <93091616895@caution.cistron.nl.mugnet.org> miquels@caution.cistron.nl.mugnet.org (Miquel van Smoorenburg,,,) writes: >>In article <748100210snx@crynwr.com> nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes: >>>As anyone has noticed, there are many programs that have >>>configuration files. And, these configuration files all have their >>>own format. I've been thinking that we can do better than that. >> >[...] >> >>Maybe this could even be one big database, or otherwise a set of files >>with the same layout. Something like a 'generic resource file' with >>a consistent format. > >And when something bad happens and the database gets hosed everything >on the system that uses a config file quite working? No thanks. >You'd also have to rewite an awful lot of software to make it use this. If you would have cared to read the rest of the article you would know better. The meaning of these files are to construct the normal config files (like /etc/passwd) from the /config ones. There are not much utilities that _write_ to the config files. /etc/passwd is a notable exception, and you have to replace those utilities _anyway_ if you decide to go from normal to shadow passwords... >>>And, no matter what kind of idiosyncratic file you've got to create, >>>you can add comments to the config file (e.g. /etc/passwd cannot have >>>comments, but /config/passwd can). > >And any software that you get from elsewhere has to be modified to look >at /config/passwd instead of /etc/passwd. Ick. Nonono. See above. BTW, passwd _is_ the worst example you can come up with. >>The idea is good. And certainly in the beginning easier than adding >>kernel features for it. > >By the time you get done, you're going to have something that only >remotely resembles unix. Many people may not care, but I suspect >most would just as soon not see that. This is just not true. See the above. >>>-russ What canst *thou* say? >>>Crynwr Software Crynwr Software sells packet driver support. >>>11 Grant St. 315-268-1925 Voice | LPF member - ask me about >>>Potsdam, NY 13676 315-268-9201 FAX | the harm software patents do. >>> >>| Miquel van Smoorenburg, | >>| Chips - the dope of the nineties. You may carry them with you, | >>| but they are more expensive per kilo than cocaine. | >> >-- >==================================================================== >= Jon Hamilton | "I guess irony can be pretty ironic sometimes" = >= jdh@iastate.edu | -- Airplane = >==================================================================== > Mike. -- | Miquel van Smoorenburg, | | Chips - the dope of the nineties. You may carry them with you, | | but they are more expensive per kilo than cocaine. | ------------------------------ From: mm@lunetix.de (M. Mueller) Subject: Re: Anybody ever try crashme on Linux? Date: 16 Sep 1993 17:15:48 GMT Nhut Nguyen (nnhut@bnr.ca) wrote: : In <1993Sep11.192500.9617@unlv.edu> ftlofaro@unlv.edu (Frank Lofaro) writes: : >It certainly didn't crash. This is with Linux 0.99pl9, a nice stable release. I : >don't know how well the "bleeding edge" kernels take it ;) : I just tried with Linux 0.99pl12. And guess what, NO crash. I guess pl12 is : not "bleeding" enough! :-). : -- : Nhut Nguyen InterNet: nnhut@bnr.ca | My 0.02$ + GST + PST : BNR Ltd., Ottawa, Canada | Opinions are mine. I tried it on my 0.99.12 and it CRASHES! Unfortunately I did it under X, so I can't report the Kernelmessages. ============================================================================= Martin Mueller | LunetIX Softfair, Mueller & Hetze GbR | Email: mm@lunetix.de | Lichtenrader Str. 41 | Tel.: +49 30 6227300 | 12049 Berlin | Fax : +49 30 6221075 ============================================================================= ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Development-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.development) via: Internet: Linux-Development@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Development Digest ******************************