From: Digestifier To: Linux-Activists@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Activists@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Sat, 14 Aug 93 13:13:05 EDT Subject: Linux-Activists Digest #114 Linux-Activists Digest #114, Volume #6 Sat, 14 Aug 93 13:13:05 EDT Contents: Re: oops, I broke the link for /lib/libc.so.4 (William M. Perry) Re: From your friends at UNIXWorld (Kevin Brown) Re: Why would I want LINUX? (Byron A Jeff) whats the difference between a1.3 vs. a1.5 ? (Dang, Manh Tung) Re: How to get a boot/root linux floppy (Sandy Knapp) Install to /dev/sdb? (PERUCCI, PHILIP A.) Memory leak fixed? (Lawrence Foard) Re: oops, I broke the link for /lib/libc.so.4 (Tom Bjorkholm AT) Core Dump Help (Robert A. Zawarski) Ncurses, how do I... (Fozzie Bear) Re: How to get a boot/root linux floppy (Byron A Jeff) Re: Linux FSP Sites? (Jim Rump) Re: Install to /dev/sdb? (Byron A Jeff) Re: Alpha pl12 Problems Report (Marc G. Fournier) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wmperry@mango.ucs.indiana.edu (William M. Perry) Subject: Re: oops, I broke the link for /lib/libc.so.4 Date: 14 Aug 93 12:44:52 GMT >Ole Tange (tange@daimi.aau.dk) wrote: >: Thus spake robert@Everest.Tandem.COM (Robert Gadbois): > >: >I think I've got real problems. I was installing image-4.4.tar.z when >: >I inadvertently changed the link for /lib/libc... to nowwhere. Now my machine >: >is very unhappy. Every command I try complains about not finding this library. >: >Is there anything I can do about this? Or is it back to reinstalling the >: >SLS time. Actually, moveing to a more current SLS might be a bigger win >: >for me to get SLIP going anyway. > >: >Justonemorepersonouttherelearningthehardway >: >rlg > >: He he, join the club of people that have removed their link! > >: But what is the correct way to install that libc? >: -- >: -- >: Never (NEVER) run elm and rmail simultanously tange@daimi.aau.dk > >Boot from the A1 disk and mount /dev/hd?? ( The partition without the >link) onto /mnt. > >move to the directory and create the link : > > # cd /mnt/lib > # ln -s libc.so.4.3.3 libc.so.4 > >sync the disks and reboot.... Or, if you don't want to have to bother rebooting twice: 1. go into emacs. 2. M-x lisp-interaction-mode 3. (make-symbolic-link "/usr/lib/libc.so.4.3.3" "/usr/lib/libc.so.4") 4. Hit CTRL-J 5. Voila - fixed At least, thats how I fixed it when I did the same thing. -Bill p. ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.os.linux.misc From: kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) Subject: Re: From your friends at UNIXWorld Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 04:56:04 GMT [I've crossposted to comp.os.linux.misc, and set followups there.] In article <24eddtINNk4b@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> ksh@prl.ufl.edu (Kevin S Ho) writes: >In article , kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) writes: >|> >: : Man, what do you want from *FREE* software? >|> >: : Linux has the disadvantage that it's TOO GOOD. It looks too much like >|> >: : commercial software; so, when people see it, they get upset that it >|> >: : doesn't look *more* like commercial software. > >Well, no one I have seen ever bitches about Linux'es capabilities. They go down in >flames over "ease of use" (more later) To some extent, "ease of use" is a valid gripe. As someone else pointed out, Linux has gotten to the point where non-computer types want to use it *because* it is as capable as it is. These people, unfortunately, don't know Unix or their hardware the way they might need to in order to do the installation. Furthermore, they might not be able to learn Unix (lack of resources) until they've got Linux up and running. Chicken and egg problem. I'm not at all saying that this is an easy problem. Hardware configurations are so variable in the PC-clone world that coping with a particular configuration is essentially a shot in the dark. So I understand the frustration of people who have problems installing Linux on their system. But help is on the way. I plan on getting into installing Linux for a fee, providing tutorial services, etc., to anyone in the area that's willing to pay me for it. >|> >Don't complain about SLS or MCC Linux installs. They may not be pretty, but >|> >they work "as advertised" with few surprises. The most difficult thing for >|> >me was to figure out how to correctly partition my hard drives to get >|> >everything to work together. > >Well, that's a good point, but take a total idiot and tell him to install >linux....... Which is precisely the problem... >|> Yup. Linux is really great stuff. Highest quality stuff *I've* ever seen. > >I agree, if you're willing to put in a few minutes of work for every program >(except ones with precomp-binaries), because you are usually *porting to linux* >and having to put up with the mutantness of linux (SYSV with some BSD with >some hell if Iknow) Having ported a number of things to System Vr4, I can tell you flat out that porting to Linux is *easier* than porting to "the Real Thing". I've even played with BSDI some, and found porting things to it to be comparable to porting things to Linux. >|> However, I also agree that if a user is having problems installing the >|> software, then (to a point) the installation process could be better. It's >|> a hard problem, though. > >One word: SLS Some people seem to be having problems even with that. I've never played with it myself, so I have no idea how easy it is to deal with. >|> Microsloth doesn't know how to delete code, only how to add code. Code that >|> is buggy and slow. > >EXACTLY Which is why I run DOS for one, and only one, thing: games. >|> >It literally has prolonged the >|> >life of my machine. I don't use X, as I don't have quite the memory for it, >|> >but if I got 8MB instead of 4, I'd be all set. > >I have 8 megs, I'm choking back the tears. Try running X, emacs, a compile >or 2 and Xtank and watch it swap! Obviously if you run enough CPU-intensive things, your system will bog. But you should try doing all those things under System Vr4. You might be lucky if your system doesn't crash on you under those conditions. >|> 386 to a 33 MHz 486). Even so, Linux hauls, *especially* on a 486. And it >|> is as stable as a rock. I haven't managed to crash it *once* while doing > >Me too, I haven't been able to crash linux, and I think it would take a few >minutes of work even if I TRIED Yup. Some things will just bring any Unix box down, e.g. "while ( 1 ) fork();", but that's not something particular to Linux. >|> normal Unix things. The only time it locked up on me was when I was playing >|> with Dosemu (word of warning: don't try bringing up Jetfighter II under it. >|> :-). I'm posting this from my Linux box. No problems. Most things >|> compile right out of the box. A few things (BSD things, in particular) >|> need a little coaxing, but it's not bad. Not bad at all. > >Well, usually it's just symlinking some #includes in from /usr/include/linux, Or using -I/usr/include/bsd... >but tell >a secretary to do that. Linux is for those who want power and are willing >to pay in sweat I agree. But how many secretaries are going to be compiling things? Most of them will want to run word processors and the like. Such applications, if written properly, should be easier to use (and faster, and more efficient, etc.) under Linux than under DOS or Windoze, if only because Linux is a *real* operating system, not some kludge put together by MicroSloth. > KsH (no sig yet) -- Kevin Brown kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com This is your .signature virus: < begin 644 .signature (9V]T8VAA(0K0z end > This is your .signature virus on drugs: <> Any questions? ------------------------------ From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) Subject: Re: Why would I want LINUX? Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 14:08:24 GMT In article <1993Aug14.022740.12411@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, Louay Gammo wrote: >In article sam@ms.uky.edu (Mike Mills) writes: >> >>In article <55270001@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> rozum@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Stephen Rozum) writes: >>> >>> *** Why should I want to use LINUX? ** >> >>One other reason that one would want to use Linux: Lets say you are a >>contract programmer, and your client needs a program to do a particular >>thing. [...] It also gives you the ability to charge for >>support and upgrade services. > > Somehow the idea of using Linux or any GNU stuff in any commercial > software is inherently dangerous. What if you inadvertently > used code from the GNU source code, or worse unwittingly > used one of GNU's source libraries (refer to bison skeleton files > for an example!). This would mean the ownership of the entire software > you delivered to your customer is not obvious without actual > inspection of the code. Somehow, I feel the FSF will be defending > their copyight on this, othewise they lose their copyright. > Sounds like trouble to me. Besides, when customers hear > about this, they will certainly say: thanks, but no thanks, > we will pay the $$$ bucks, > but at least we know we own the software. Let's nip this one in the bud. GNU's FREE software is not about money. It's not about ownership. It's about access. The basic jist of the GNU copyright (left. whatever) is that if you sell or give away a piece of code under the copyright that the person you sell/give away the code to has the same level of access to the code you do. So if I'm a contract programmer and I build a system based on Linux (whose kernel incidentally is copyrighted by Linus) and I sell a system to a client, my responsibility is to give the client the same level of access to the GNU software that I have, namely source code. The objective is not to prevent the sale of software but to prevent the closed "It's mine and you can't see/have it" attitude that most software companies have. BTW the GNU copyleft only gurantees access. The developer is not obligated to send the source code with the system, only to provide access to it if requested and to make sure that the client understands that they have access to the source. Also if you write your own piece of code from scratch without using anyone elses code then it's yours and you can do that you want with it. BTW is there a lib yet for linux that's GNU "safe" yet? Meaning you can like to it and not provide source code? And finally a question. What exactly would a client do with software they "own" as opposed to GNU software? They can use it. They can sell it. The only thing they can't do is prohibit anyone they give/sell it to the same level of access the "owners" have. And lastly ;-) The reason I don't think the GNU copyleft makes a whole bunch of difference is that the clients generally don't have the technical ability to do anything with the source code if they had it. They why they hire us in the first place. In the end it really doesn't matter. What matters is to have good reliable code that does the job and good technical support so that clients can get things done. That's what people will pay for. comments? BAJ --- Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of... Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel! Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu ------------------------------ From: st2e3@rosie.uh.edu (Dang, Manh Tung) Subject: whats the difference between a1.3 vs. a1.5 ? Date: 14 Aug 1993 09:46 CDT Whats the difference between a1.3 and a1.5? which is newer? which is better? p.s. also i'm having trouble trying to rawrite2 on my disk, it say sector not found! i use a ami 486sx/25 thanks ------------------------------ From: akingdom@vtaix.cc.vt.edu (Sandy Knapp) Subject: Re: How to get a boot/root linux floppy Date: 14 Aug 1993 14:50:15 GMT Bob Crosson (crosson@cam.nist.gov) wrote: : Doing a 'dd if=/zImage of=/dev/fd0' copies a bootable image : to a floppy. I know this part works. The problem is how to : get a root file system on that same floppy and how to get the : image to mount that root file system. Actually it's really simple. Make your favorite file system on the floppy. Fill in the directory structure witth the required utilities and put a kernel on the disk. Install lilo on the disk (/etc/lilo). Set up the lilo config file to boot from /dev/fd0 and mount it as root. Run lilo and voila! bootable floppy. I'd love a good explanation of using a ramdisk as root though. Philip ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin From: SSB1PZP@imcvms.med.navy.mil (PERUCCI, PHILIP A.) Subject: Install to /dev/sdb? Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 14:31:53 GMT Can both SLS v1.03 and Slackware be installed to the SECOND DRIVE (in my case /dev/sdb)? I have OS/2, and the fine Microsoft offerings on /dev/sda... =========================================================================== Phil Perucci, Systems Programmer | "I don't speak for any organization ssb1pzp@imcvms.med.navy.mil | and no organization speaks for me" =========================================================================== ------------------------------ From: entropy@world.std.com (Lawrence Foard) Subject: Memory leak fixed? Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 15:28:10 GMT I just upgraded to pl11 and am having problems with a kernel memory leak. Has this been fixed in pl12? After being up for a day the system is acting like it only has 4megs of ram. -- ====== Time: 820713600 seconds, Space: 1727.2mm, Mass: 9.5E10 ug . \ / Kinsey: 4.5, Religion: Science, Energy: 8.55E18, OS: Linux . . \ / Species: Human, Planet: Earth, Fame: Tinymush, Allergy: Dustmite . . . \/ Purity: 40, Sex: male, frequent, Drugs: Caffeine, Rock & roll: . . . . ------------------------------ From: tom@at8.abo.fi (Tom Bjorkholm AT) Subject: Re: oops, I broke the link for /lib/libc.so.4 Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 15:29:27 GMT >: >I inadvertently changed the link for /lib/libc... to nowwhere. Now my machine >: >is very unhappy. Every command I try complains about not finding this library. First: When you are upgrading the libraries use "ln -sf" to make the new link. If you anyhow manages to get the libraries AFU sash is a good help. It might be a good idea to install sash today, you never know what happens tomorrow :-) sash is found on: sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/system/Shells/sash.tar.z From the man page: SASH(1) SASH(1) NAME sash - stand-alone shell with built-in commands SYNOPSYS sash DESCRIPTION The sash program is a stand-alone shell which is useful for recovering from certain types of system failures. In particular, it was created in order to cope with the prob- lem of missing shared libraries. You can also use sash to safely upgrade to new versions of the shared libraries. Sash can execute external programs, as in any shell. There are no restrictions on these commands, as the stan- dard shell is used to execute them if there are any meta- characters in the command. More importantly, however, is that many of the standard system commands are built-in to sash. These built-in com- mands are: -chgrp, -chmod, -chown, -cmp, -cp, -dd, -echo, -ed, -grep, -kill, -ln, -ls, -mkdir, -mknod, -more, -mount, -mv, -printenv, -pwd, -rm, -rmdir, -sync, -tar, -touch, -umount [pages of text deleted] AUTHOR David I. Bell --- -- Tom Bjorkholm Phone: +358 21 654 863 Process Design Laboratory Fax: +358 21 654 479 Department of Chemical Engineering Internet: tom@at8.abo.fi Abo Akademi University or: tbjorkho@ra.abo.fi ------------------------------ From: zawarski@phakt.usc.edu (Robert A. Zawarski) Subject: Core Dump Help Date: 14 Aug 1993 08:42:37 -0700 I finally got a,b, and c of SLS installed on my system.. I did a 'make setserial' and it responded ' Warning : cc : libc.so.4 : incompatible minor version numbers (DLL Jump 4.4pl1) ' and then proceded to do a core dump.. ( I don't even know exactly what a 'core dump' is except its a VERY large file that suddenly appears in my directory!) I also get this lib type warning when I attempt several other commands such as xterm.. what does this warning mean and how do I correct it? Help please, R.Z. ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development From: fozzie@turtle.apana.org.au (Fozzie Bear) Subject: Ncurses, how do I... Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 12:58:02 GMT I am trying to do some C programming under Linux. I am having trouble with a particular routine I am pretty sure it's in the ncurses library. What am I trying to do is the following. Print some text, then have the user input *1* character of information. getchar() only works if you hit carriage return. I want the user to just hit one key on the keyboard and then have that keystroke returned to the calling part of the program. Sort of like an inkey function in BASIC. My C is a little rusty, so please email me with any info to help solve this problem. I am also then interested to see what command syntax I need to use to cc (what -l options do I need to use?) Thanks, Fozzie -- =============================================================================== fozzie@turtle.apana.org.au I'm looking for an ascii turtle picture. If you've got one, email it to me! ------------------------------ From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) Subject: Re: How to get a boot/root linux floppy Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 16:19:14 GMT In article <24iu37$n9a@vtserf.cc.vt.edu>, Sandy Knapp wrote: >Bob Crosson (crosson@cam.nist.gov) wrote: > >: Doing a 'dd if=/zImage of=/dev/fd0' copies a bootable image >: to a floppy. I know this part works. The problem is how to >: get a root file system on that same floppy and how to get the >: image to mount that root file system. > >Actually it's really simple. Make your favorite file system on the floppy. >Fill in the directory structure witth the required utilities and put a >kernel on the disk. Install lilo on the disk (/etc/lilo). Set up the >lilo config file to boot from /dev/fd0 and mount it as root. Run lilo >and voila! bootable floppy. > >I'd love a good explanation of using a ramdisk as root though. The rdev command comes to the rescue! It allows you to change the root device, select a swap, set the video mode, and build a ramdisk. I gather it operates on the kernel itself. To expand on your example on the kernel you copied to the floppy: - Mount the floppy (say on /mnt) - run the command: rdev -r /mnt/Image 1440 This creates a ramdisk that the root is loaded into. Use 1200 for a 1.2 Meg floppy. Now when the floppy is booted it'll create a ramdisk and load the entire floppy into it. Access is FAST! but be aware that any changed will only be reflected on the ram disk. If you want to change something on the floppy you have to mount it and change the files on the mounted disk. Now on to the next topic - separate boot/root floppies - I needed to do this for the Slackware distribution because I only had a 1.2 Meg boot floppy disk: (thanks to hartnegg@sun3.ruf.uni-freiburg.de (Klaus Hartnegg) for the info) 1) Build the boot floppy by copying the kernel to the formatted floppy using the dd command: dd if=/Image of=/dev/fd0 2) Now set up another floppy with a file system. Fill it with the necessary utilities but WITHOUT A KERNEL! LILO is also not needed. This is the root floppy. 3) Back to the boot floppy. Run the following commands with it in the drive: rdev /dev/fd0 /dev/fd0 rdev -r /dev/fd0 1200 rdev -v /dev/fd0 -3 These command set the root floppy to fd0, creates a ramdisk for the root floppy, and sets the video mode to ask for a mode respectivly. 4) OK the setup is done. To boot with your new system put the boot floppy in the drive and reboot. The floppy will load the kernel and ask for the video mode. When it does this swap the root floppy in. Now the ramdisk will be created and the root floppy copied to it. I think that SLS/Slackware should be distributed like this. I know it kinda a pain to have to rawrite 2 floppies instead of one. But it'll give the installation disks enough space to include useful items like an editor and the netstat and ping commands (for Slackware at least). Now I have a couple of questions: 1) I was able to create my root/boot pair from hacking up the A1 disk int the slackware distribution. But I needed a 1.44 3.5" floppy to do it. Is there any way with normal tools that I can access the a1disk file as a filesystem? I know the loopback driver can do it but it requires a kernel patch to a pl11 kernel or higher which can't be easily done when you don't already have a kernel that high. 2) How do you use a boot/root pair with a video system that has only one video mode? BAJ --- Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of... Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel! Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu ------------------------------ From: jim@center.stack.urc.tue.nl (Jim Rump) Subject: Re: Linux FSP Sites? Date: 14 Aug 1993 13:17:59 GMT INGRAM LEEDY (gil@beach.cis.ufl.edu) wrote: : Does anyone know of any of the FSP sites for downloading Linux? FSP makes : things so nice since you can download in the background. I know that : tsx-11.mit.edu use to have fsp access, but it doesn't seem to work. I hope : that it isnt because of unligitimate fsp sites, they decieded to close shop. : Thanks for any information.. : Ingram Leedy Try ftp.stack.urc.tue.nl 21 or: 131.155.140.128 21 Jim. ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) Subject: Re: Install to /dev/sdb? Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 16:48:45 GMT In article , PERUCCI, PHILIP A. wrote: >Can both SLS v1.03 and Slackware be installed to the SECOND DRIVE (in my >case /dev/sdb)? I have OS/2, and the fine Microsoft offerings on /dev/sda... Yes. When you run doinstall just specify whatevery partition you want as root (and usr if it's a separate partition) on the command line. Type the command by itself to see the possible options. Also you'll need to set up LILO yourself unless you're using the OS/2 Bootmanager. BAJ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Phil Perucci, Systems Programmer | "I don't speak for any organization > ssb1pzp@imcvms.med.navy.mil | and no organization speaks for me" >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of... Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel! Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu ------------------------------ From: scrappy@io.org (Marc G. Fournier) Subject: Re: Alpha pl12 Problems Report Date: 14 Aug 1993 12:45:29 -0000 In <24eeul$14t@renux.frmug.fr.net> rene@renux.frmug.fr.net (Rene COUGNENC) writes: >Ce brave Marc G Fournier ecrit: >> rene@renux.frmug.fr.net (Rene COUGNENC) writes: >> the net-2 code in pl12 Alpha is supposedly a little more >> 'strict' in how you do things. If you add an extra 'route add' to your >> rc.net, it works fine: >> ie: >> route add 'network' (on my machine, network is 198.133.36.0) >> route add default gw 'gateway-machine' (on my machine, 198.133.36.1) >Has the code for route.c in NET-2 been modified...? >The one I have is: > * Version: @(#)route.c 1.04 05/27/93 > * neat....the one that comes with pl12-Alpha is 1.0.14...hmmm... is yours from net-2 Rev E, by some chance? marc -- Marc G. Fournier Public Access Internet Voice: 363-8676 Internex Online Inc FTP Telnet Data: 363-3783 Toronto, Ontario, Canada IRC MUDs Telnet: io.org ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Activists-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux) via: Internet: Linux-Activists@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux tupac-amaru.informatik.rwth-aachen.de pub/msdos/replace The current version of Linux is 0.99pl9 released on April 23, 1993 End of Linux-Activists Digest ******************************