Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #631
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Fri, 19 Aug 94 10:13:10 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #631, Volume #2                Fri, 19 Aug 94 10:13:10 EDT

Contents:
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Bill Hogan)
  *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07) (Ian Jackson)
  Need Mach64 support and wireless modem support (Dave Hinz)
  New Latex2e version (Jurgen den Hartog)
  Re: Linux/Linus gets notation in Wired 2.09 (Harald Milz)
  Re: System Admin Shell? (Harald Milz)
  Re: Routing table question (Mohan Kokal)
  Re: APC refuses to give out info without NDA (Terry Lambert)
  Re: TERM + TRN/NN + NNTP.... uhm, how? (Joel Justen)
  Re: Linux BBS Software (Orc)
  Re: Ambra (Tom Wilson)
  UPS Monitoring Cable For APC (Lam Dang)
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (Neil Dunbar)
  Re: ObjectCenter. What is it ? (Castor Fu)
  Q: Crash when LANCE-ether & XFree-S3 run simultaneously -- Why? (Martin.Kraemer)
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Dan Newcombe)
  linux + isdn ? (Joel HUBIN)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 19 Aug 1994 02:31:51 -0700

Orc (orc@pell.com) wrote:
: In article <32vdtf$dlc@crl.crl.com>, Bill Hogan <bhogan@crl.com> wrote:

: >  Thirdly, I am alarmed by the way people who want to get started using 
: >Linux are being turned off by the ridiculous amount of nastiness they meet 
: >up with even in c.o.l.help!
: >
: >  I am sure some people who conceive of themselves as "guru's" hang 
: >around c.o.l.h just so they can insult newcomers and scream "RTFM!".
: >
: >  There is no excuse for this kind of behavior and I think that saying
: >'comp.os.linux.beginners' would make it clear even to these few bullies
: >that if they need to be nasty they will have to go elsewhere to do it. 

:    So the idea would be that c.o.l.b would be only for beginners?

  Not if by "be only for beginners" you mean "be there only for beginners 
to post questions"!

  The text from which you have extracted your straw man begin with this:

  "Aha! If you have a question then on that question you are a beginner or 
else you would know the answer, yes?"

  That was in response to the (jesting) suggestion that "experts" would 
not want to reveal the fact that they do not know everything by posting 
questions in a newsgroup that had "beginners" in its name.

  But to imply that what I am proposing is intended to discourage anyone who
wants to from answering questions posted in comp.os.linux.beginners is
absurd. 

  And if the questions that are now being posted in c.o.l.* groups other
than c.o.l.help are not requests for information or clarification of some
kind then what are they? 

  Bill
  
  

------------------------------

From: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Jackson)
Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07)
Date: 19 Aug 1994 04:03:15 -0600

Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of
which groups you should read and post to.

Please do not crosspost anything between different groups of the comp.os.linux
hierarchy.  See Matt Welsh's introduction to the hierarchy, posted weekly.

If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently
Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or
from another Linux FTP site.  It is also posted periodically to c.o.l.announce.

In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!'
The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of
particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place.

Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not
comp.os.linux.misc.

Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix, and
that non-Linux-specific Unix questions should go to comp.unix.questions.
Please read the FAQs for these groups before posting - look on rtfm.mit.edu in
/pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq and .../unix-faq.

Only if you have a posting that is not more appropriate for one of the other
Linux groups - ie it is not a question, not about the future development of
Linux, not an announcement or bug report and not about system administration -
should you post to comp.os.linux.misc.


Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me !
--
Ian Jackson  <ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu>  (urgent email: iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk)
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England;  phone: +44 223 64238

------------------------------

From: daveh@texlin.minmet.mcgill.ca (Dave Hinz)
Subject: Need Mach64 support and wireless modem support
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 21:54:39 GMT

Hi:

I am interested in temporarily using a wireless modem to allow my
Linux box at work to receive incoming calls (internet support will
be quite a while in coming to the lab).  What software should I abe
looking at to accomplish this goal?  SLIP?  Seyon?  Term?
Secondly, how close is the Mach64 support to being complete?  Is
is ready now?

Thanks,
Dave


------------------------------

From: jurgen@ph.tn.tudelft.nl (Jurgen den Hartog)
Subject: New Latex2e version
Date: 19 Aug 1994 10:09:55 GMT

I recently installed the latest slackware release, but unfortunately
it contains a beta test version (12/20/93) of Latex2e. Is it possible
to ftp somewhere a more recent version for Linux?
Many thanks in advance.

Jurgen.

email: jurgen@tpd.tno.nl
TNO Institute of Applied Physics
The Netherlands.

------------------------------

From: hm@seneca.ix.de (Harald Milz)
Subject: Re: Linux/Linus gets notation in Wired 2.09
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 06:29:13 GMT
Reply-To: hm@seneca.ix.de

Robert Sink (sinkr@universe.digex.net) wrote:
: > In case no one noticed, or perhaps I didn't see anyone elses post Wired v2.09
: > had a nice article on Linux and Linus.

: > It gave a background on the operating system and showed Linus slurping
: > down a beer.  Very interesting.

Oh, that one?

-- 
Harald Milz (hm@seneca.ix.de)
iX Multiuser Multitasking Magazine

------------------------------

From: hm@seneca.ix.de (Harald Milz)
Subject: Re: System Admin Shell?
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 06:31:16 GMT
Reply-To: hm@seneca.ix.de

Jay Mottern (shamus@eskimo.com) wrote:
: > In article <32he1cINNt63@life.ai.mit.edu>,
: > The Kaoman <kao@gnu.ai.mit.edu> wrote:
: > >Are there any System Administration shells avaiable for Linux, such as
: > the
: > >ones avaiable in other brands (SCO for example).  If so, where may I
: > FTP
: > >these from?  I've looked through sunsite, and haven't found any ... am
: > I 
: > >just not looking in the right place?
: > >
: > >Thanks in adnvance .. and reply via email if possible
: > >the kaoman
: > >kao@gnu.ai.mit.edu
: > >
: > >
: >  
: >  
: > Me too, please.

There are several people working on such beasts, independant of each other. 
You can find respective entries in the Projects-FAQ (to be renamed Linux
Projects Map soon). I hope those people come together and join their efforts. 

-- 
Harald Milz (hm@seneca.ix.de)
iX Multiuser Multitasking Magazine

------------------------------

From: magnus@upenn.edu (Mohan Kokal)
Subject: Re: Routing table question
Date: 19 Aug 1994 01:23:14 GMT

Edsel Adap (adap@andrews.edu) wrote:

: Kernel routing table
: Destination net/address   Gateway address       Flags RefCnt    Use Iface
: loopback                  *                     UH         0      0 lo
: loopback                  *                     UH         0      0 lo

 what versions of the following are you using?
 a) slackware
 b) kernel
 c) route
 d) netstat

 If you are using route/netstat  from the slackware 1.0 distrib, then that 
 would be the reason for the wierd routes.. use the latest version of route
 and netstat from the 1.2.0 distrib above.


 -Mohan (magnus@cegt201.bradley.edu)

------------------------------

From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: APC refuses to give out info without NDA
Date: 19 Aug 1994 04:31:37 GMT

In article <3309o0$r5l@nic.umass.edu> mrunkel@twain.ucs.umass.edu (Marc A. Runkel) writes:
] If anyone from APC is reading this, you will be glad to know that I too 
] will no longer be suggesting that the UMass buy APC UPS's.  Which is too 
] bad, as I think they are good products.

Is there an email address for APC?

I have the same reservations regarding Diamond and Adaptec products,
and would hate to add to my list without giving them a chance.


                                        Terry Lambert
                                        terry@cs.weber.edu
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

------------------------------

From: crazyrat@iglou.iglou.com (Joel Justen)
Subject: Re: TERM + TRN/NN + NNTP.... uhm, how?
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 11:25:52 GMT

Jingsong Li (jli@wrench.me.rochester.edu) wrote:
: In article <32vrgo$gk5@nic.scruz.net>,
: Inferno_Operator <edge@ccs.neu.edu> wrote:
: >Elf Sternberg (elf@chinook.halcyon.com) wrote:
: >
: >:    That's basically it.  I've gotten term to work with damned near 
: >: everything, from telnet and FTP to Mosaic.  My last two are the most 
: >: critical, however, and News, understandably, is first (it looks easier).  
: >: Does anyone have a working example of using trn-nntp or nn-nntp with 
: >: term?  Any tips or tricks?  I've made trn several times, with termnet and 
: >: without (term 2.0.4), and it refuses to work.  Any help?
: >
: >If you have a faster connection & are using term for some ungawdly
: >reason, or if you don't mind 10-minute waits while changing groups,
: >it's simple enough to set your NNTPSERVER to localhost and, ie,  
: >tredir 119 news.scruz.net:119

: Yes, it is too slow to wait. I wonder if we can control this by limiting
: newsgroup,  but it seems depend on  remote news server.

: An good alternative to use term "read" news is using termMosaic. The trick
: setup is  NNTPSERVER=your remote news server.  No tredir is
: needed. You just open URL by news:your_news_group

Only one problem with this manner of reading news..  It seems there is no
way of threading, sorting, or tracking what articles you've already read.
In other words, Mosaic is NOT a newsreader in any sense of the word.

Perhaps I can be shown differently, but it was not fun when I tried it..

Joel


------------------------------

From: orc@pell.com (Orc)
Subject: Re: Linux BBS Software
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 03:00:06 GMT

In article <32ud09$iio@nova.umd.edu>, Bruce Parks <ucbruce@nova.umd.edu> wrote:
>Following is a list of the BBS software available at sunsite.unc.edu.  
>Has anybody tried any of these packages?  Any observations/recommendations?

>ctdl-bin.tgz             bins for the Citadel BBS package
>ctdl-src.tgz             source for the Citadel BBS package

   Citadel is a pretty good choice.  I used to be the maintainer of
a version of it (stadel), and found it to be easy to use and moderately
easy to maintain.  I've looked at this version (citadel-ux) and
it's pretty nice;  I'm not sure about the readability of the code, but
it seems to run well.

   In a nutshell, citadel is set up like usenet, with the addition
of a Mail>room, where all your mail is (the commands for reading and
posting mail are exactly the same as for reading and posting news.)

                ____
  david parsons \bi/ orc@pell.com
                 \/

------------------------------

From: ctwilson@mercury.interpath.net (Tom Wilson)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems
Subject: Re: Ambra
Date: 18 Aug 1994 23:38:55 -0400

In article <CuqKr1.D3M@ulysses.homer.att.com>,
Steven Bellovin <smb@research.att.com> wrote:
:In article <32vjtm$jj4@xanth.cs.odu.edu>, cordn_d@lightning.cs.odu.edu (David Cordner) writes:
:> Steven Bellovin (smb@research.att.com) wrote:
:> : Any words of wisdom on Ambra systems, pro or con?  I intend to run
:> : DOS/Windows and Linux.
:> 
:> Didn't I read a couple of weeks ago that IBM was shutting down Ambra?
:> They didn't say that they were selling them or spinning them off into
:> another IBM owned company, but that they were closing them down.  The
:> article claimed that they couldn't compete and that profits were not
:> what IBM had expected.  (I still see Ambra adds in the trade magazines
:> and have wondered if they were there because of publication lead time
:> requirements or if the article I read was wrong.)
:
:Several folks have replied about this.  Yes, that's quite accurate.
:The folks who answer Ambra's 800 number say that the product line is
:just being folded back into the main company.  Whether or not to believe

Not quite true...it's just plain being dropped.  Most employees are being
laid off and will not be automatically be offered jobs elsewhere in the 
company or get transfers.  They have to apply for new jobs (there are 
quite a few other IBM PC jobs being moved to the same area) just like anyone 
else.  The only thing that will remain is support (so IBM says) is support 
for current owners.

:that is a judgment call, of course; given that I have yet to see
:general agreement about anyone's tech support being good, I'm inclined
:to believe that I'm mostly on my own anyway, at least after the first
:few weeks...
:
:My question is really asking if the machines themselves are any good.

They don't get very good reliability ratings...about average otherwise.
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
|  Tom Wilson                      |  "I can't complain, but sometimes  |
|  ctwilson@rock.concert.net       |   I still do."                     |
|                                  |                -Joe Walsh          |

------------------------------

From: dangit@netcom.com (Lam Dang)
Subject: UPS Monitoring Cable For APC
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 04:41:35 GMT


-- 
Lam Dang
dangit@netcom.com

                                

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware
From: neil@riscot.demon.co.uk (Neil Dunbar)
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 11:59:50 +0000

tomk@access.digex.net (Tom Krotchko) writes:

>In article <1994Aug15.104039.1877@riscot.demon.co.uk>, neil@riscot.demon.co.uk (Neil Dunbar) says:

>>I'm not so sure, Tom. That's a question of paying $21,000 or
>>$22,000. If a customer is presented with two choices which are
>>equivalent OS's, which one would he choose?

>Honestly?  The one he's most comfortable with.

You might be right, but I've found that the comfort factor only tends
to become important after a certain price break. Our low end stuff
(most orders are in the region of $100,000) is sold as complete
packages, so the customer rarely, if ever, cares what the OS is. I
wouldn't presume that RiS's experience is even remotely similar to the
majority of computing-related business, however.

I also kind of blew my point out of the water by stating 'equivalent
OS's' -- after all, hardly any company *really* perceives two OS's as
being equivalent, even if they are.

>Most companies are so conservative (and rightly so) that any type
>of switch is questioned.

I hear you, but sometimes I question the 'rightly so' bit... after
all, it's stuck us with MS-DOG and Whine-doze for years ...
(1/2 :-) )

Neil.


-- 
\ Neil Dunbar [Alleged Software Engineer]/   Rochester Instrument Systems, Ltd.
 \ E-Mail : neil@riscot.demon.co.uk     /            Hillend Industrial Estate,
  \ CI$: 100066,603                    /                Dunfermline, Fife, U.K.
   \ "I made the blue car go away"    /                    Tel : +44 383 822911

------------------------------

From: castor@hassle.Stanford.EDU (Castor Fu)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: ObjectCenter. What is it ?
Date: 19 Aug 1994 06:49:39 GMT


Along the lines of debugging tools available for unix based systems
like ObjectCenter vs. MS-Windows  VC++,  how much one gets for their 
$300 development tools versus the $3000 tools, etc. 
I thought I'd inject another factoid about a nifty tool.

We recently got a tool called Atom for DEC's Alpha machines running
OSF/1. DEC is giving it for FREE to people that ask for it 
(eustace@pa.dec.com), and will be bundled in with the next OS release.

Atom is a tool for developing object code instrumentors.  It's 
possible to take an executable, and instrument it with code
of your choice. You could do things like monitor system calls,
memory references, procedure calls, etc.

A number of the more common things one might want,  memory
like checkers, basic block profilers, are included.

This stuff is GREAT for debugging (I assume that ObjectCenter probably
even nicer, but I bet centerline has no intentions of porting to
OSF/1 given DEC's dwindling market share. . .) I had someone else's code
which was dying on an illegal memory reference.  I had been
trying to find the source of the malloc corruption by hand in my
free time and hadn't had much luck.  After running it through
Atom's "Third Degree" tool, I found the error in about 5 minutes,
including reading the manual page.

Anyways, if I were developing stuff, a DEC workstation  doesn't
cost too much more than two copies of ObjectCenter. . . 

        -castor
--
Castor Fu, (foo@leland.stanford.edu)

------------------------------

From: martin@deejai.mch.sni.de (Martin.Kraemer)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Q: Crash when LANCE-ether & XFree-S3 run simultaneously -- Why?
Date: 19 Aug 1994 13:24:43 GMT
Reply-To: Martin.Kraemer@mch.sni.de

FFinally (after removing a fatal bug in net_init.c), I managed to get my
EXOS-105 (PC_LANCE compatible) to run. It's on the net, and _most_ things
just work fine, only...

    When I start xdm (XFree S3 accelerated SVGA from slackware 2.0), the
first sign of trouble appears shortly after startup: the X display isn't
refreshed correctly any longer, rubber-band-marks stay put instead of being
removed after resize/move, and the the machine just stops.
No ``panic'' (well, I THINK, but how can I see it when I'm in X?).

However, when I'm using the MONO server, everything works just fine (well,
at least if you call 800x600x2 "fine" if you could have 1152x900x256...).

I don't see any conflict in /proc/interrupts  (does an X server add any more
interrupts anyway? If yes, where  are they documented?), and I don't know if
there  can be  any I/O  addr. conflicts  (there are  none  if I  run Windoze
instead) and I wouldn't know where they are documented.

So what else can be a reason for hangup? Memory addresses? What's different
for X_MONO xnd X_S3?

Any help would be _greatly_ appreciated.

    Thanks,
        Martin
--
#include <std/dsclm.h>       /* SNI SU BS2000 SD124 - Muenchen, W. Germany */
 Martin Kraemer                                   [Martin.Kraemer@mch.sni.de]
If God had meant for us to think He would have given us brains.

------------------------------

From: newcombe@aa.csc.peachnet.edu (Dan Newcombe)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 1994 08:56:20 UNDEFINED

In article <Cur14v.6HA@pell.com> orc@pell.com (Orc) writes:
>>  Thirdly, I am alarmed by the way people who want to get started using 
>>Linux are being turned off by the ridiculous amount of nastiness they meet 
>>up with even in c.o.l.help!
>   So the idea would be that c.o.l.b would be only for beginners?
>   Who, then, would answer the questions?

While RTFM may be a good idea...it is not always a practical solution.  Which 
manual/faq/info/man page/etc...  There is WAY too much M in the RTFM.

The beginner group could be a place for beginners to ask questions that may 
or may not be Linux specific.  Such as:
        How can I remove a directory and it's files (like DELTREE in DOS)???

And then people that have an over abundence of patience can answer these 
questions, and the other groups can be for people with "real" questions.

Sure, some may say that the above question belongs in c.u.q, BUT, as a new 
user, how is that person supposed to know.  Technically, any question that 
doesn't have to do with the kernel (which is what Linux really is) belongs in 
another newsgroup, but it's hard to draw a line that fine on what is and isn't 
Linux.

Anyway, my point is because that line is so hard to draw, we should be more 
tolerant.  When I started up with Linux, it was my first real exposure to 
Unix.  I had no clue what should be asked on the Linux groups and what 
shouldn't.  Not everyone can be a guru the first time they boot the system up. 
Have some paitence.

Perhaps something to do would be to create a WWW/Gopher server that is a 
knowledge base.  The person can connect to it, give a few keywords, and the 
server will return responses with those keywords.  I know that Hewlett-Packard 
has something like this...it's pretty nifty!

        -Dan

--
Dan Newcombe                    newcombe@aa.csc.peachnet.edu
Clayton State College           Morrow, Georgia
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"And the man in the mirror has sad eyes."       -Marillion

------------------------------

From: jhu@lys.info.fundp.ac.be (Joel HUBIN)
Subject: linux + isdn ?
Date: 19 Aug 1994 12:20:34 GMT
Reply-To: jhu@info.fundp.ac.be


Could someone please point me to some informations (if any) about what you
can do with linux and isdn, about possibly existing software ...

Thanks.

                         ,,,,
===============+        [o o]
  Joel HUBIN   +---oOOo-`(_)'-oOOo------------------------------------
                                _ _   _
  Assistant                    _/_/  _/  Assistant Lecturer
  Institut d'Informatique       _/_ _/   Institute of Computer Science
  Facultes Universitaires  _   _/_/_/    University of Namur
  21, rue Grandgagnage    _/_ _/  _/     21, rue Grandgagnage
  B-5000 Namur           _/_/_/  _/      B-5000 Namur
  Belgique                               Belgium

  e-mail : jhu@info.fundp.ac.be
======================================================================

------------------------------


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