Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #623
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Wed, 17 Aug 94 16:13:12 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #623, Volume #2                Wed, 17 Aug 94 16:13:12 EDT

Contents:
  Re: 525 Meg Tape Drives **DIRT CHEAP**!!! (Ben Taylor)
  Anyone using the listserv package on sunsite? (Rob Newberry)
  Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion) (Jim Sun)
  Re: Redirecting output of screen to X (Lenny Turetsky)
  Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion) (Chris Mauritz)
  Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion) (Chris Mauritz)
  Re: "crypt" or equivalents in Linux (Mike Duncan)
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Nils Nieuwejaar)
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Nils Nieuwejaar)
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Nils Nieuwejaar)
  Routing table question (Edsel Adap)
  Anyone gotten a NCR53c810 working on a Plato (P90) motherboard? (Craig Metz)
  Re: FAX software available? (Gert Doering)
  Re: Linux in Open Computing mag (Dan Newcombe)
  Re: Installing Slackware Professional CD-Rom from Mitsumi... (Phil Hughes)
  Re: Linux in Open Computing mag (Phil Hughes)
  Re: IDEA: termfs - NFS-like fs for Term (David Boyd)
  Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion) (Harry C Pulley)
  Any other Filemanager? (jaewan@phys.ufl.edu)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: s9ubxt@sun330 (Ben Taylor)
Subject: Re: 525 Meg Tape Drives **DIRT CHEAP**!!!
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 13:14:55 GMT


These drives are going for between $100 and $189.
asg@world.com has been selling these for $189 for 
the last 6 months.  $235 is not a good price
for these drives by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, another person has been selling real 525MB
tape drives (Not 150MB with software compression
for $250)

Ben

------------------------------

From: rob@eats.com (Rob Newberry)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.development
Subject: Anyone using the listserv package on sunsite?
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 10:00:34 UNDEFINED

I've been experimenting with setting up a listserv on my machine, and I
was using the listserv package on sunsite.  Although I did have to make
some patches to the code (an #include <unistd.h> was needed for the R_OK, and 
the functions in "str.c" were in the normal string library), I got it to 
compile.  However, I can't seem to figure out how to create lists.  I added 
the *.info and *.pub files, but it doesn't go.  The package mentions an index 
file, but I can't find the example it talks about.

Has anybody managed to make this thing go?  Thanks for any help!

Rob



------------------------------

From: jsun@athena.mit.edu (Jim Sun)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion)
Date: 17 Aug 1994 15:18:15 GMT

>Downloading the rest at 9600 bps (or less) might be somewhat slower
>than feeding the 40 floppies :-) Or impossible, if you don't have net
>access at all from home.

>The best case scenario is when you have Internet access via Ethernet,
>and all you have to install is 6 floppies (the above mentioned 5 plus
>n1).

the best case scenario is when you can find a installation server on the local
net; install via nfs, all you need is 2 floppies (root, boot);

if supervised time is the only concern, install via dos partition.  if you have
novel netware for dos, rapidfiler can ftp all packages that you want to install
with minimum supervision; then installing from a dos partition provides faster
interactive session under linux setup.  this process also needs only 2 floppies,
but a sizable temporary dos disk space.

jim

------------------------------

From: lturetsk@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Lenny Turetsky)
Subject: Re: Redirecting output of screen to X
Date: 17 Aug 1994 14:47:10 GMT

You may want to look at the dislocate package (which involves the expect
package).

LT

Skip (rkuo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu) wrote:
:       When I receive a talk request while I am running X, the request pops
: up on VT1 but nothing shows up on my X desktop.  I figured the problem could
: be solved using xconsole, but I haven't had any luck using it either.  I've
: looked through the man pages, but I just can't figure it out.  What is the
: proper way to solve this problem?

--
   _____________________________________________________________________
 /|                                                                     |
| | There are only two organizations that I know of that send armed     |
| | men in dark suits and sunglasses to take money they haven't earned: |
| | the mafia and the government.                   -- Lenny Turetsky   |
| |                                                                     |
| | Lenny Turetsky (aka) lturetsk@minerva.cis.yale.edu                  |
| |_____________________________________________________________________|
|/_____________________________________________________________________/


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.coherent
From: ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Chris Mauritz)
Subject: Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 14:08:21 GMT

Brandon S. Allbery (bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org) wrote:
: In article <9408161954.56@rmkhome.com>, rmk@rmkhome.com (Rick Kelly) says:
: +---------------
: | The question is moot, since the system in question has an Adaptec 1540A,
: | which Linux didn't seem to like.  So I installed NetBSD instead.
: +------------->8

: ???  I don't know what you're doing, but the 154x series is supported and
: works for many folks.  The 154xA had bugs which you may be triggering, but
: you're as likely to trip over those on other OSes as well.

I think it's something peculiar to Rick's setup as well.  I helped
someone install Linux on a system with a 1542 (which is basically
a 1540 + floppy controller) and it worked without any special attention
or fiddling at all.

So now Rick has come full circle, admitting that he isn't against free
OS's afterall (he's using netBSD)...even after he pissed and moaned
about the many freeware aspects of Linux.  It all boils down to he
couldn't get his SCSI card to work (and many other linuxers are using
that card).

Heh.

Chris
-- 
Christopher Mauritz       |  Ask me about public access unix
ritz@mordor.com           |  and interactive internet services.
Mordor International BBS  |  BBS: (201)433-7343,(212)843-3451
Jersey City, NJ           |  FAX: (201)433-4222

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.coherent
From: ritz@ritz.mordor.com (Chris Mauritz)
Subject: Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 14:11:04 GMT

Harry C Pulley (hpulley@uoguelph.ca) wrote:
: Rick Kelly (rmk@rmkhome.com) wrote:
: : I have multiple computers and multiple operating systems.

: : I believe in "1 computer = 1 OS".

: I just bought a new drive and I have DOS, Linux and Coherent on the same
: machine.  I believe in "I computer, many OSes" ;-)

:-)

: Isn't this discussion getting a bit beyond silly?  We have "my OS is better
: than yours" and "CDROM vs. tape" in the same thread.  "Double the religion" is
: not "double the fun".  Well, it is kind of fun to read the messages as they
: come on down the pipe but I think we are repeating ourselves, just a little
: bit?

OK, let's bury the CD-ROM.  :-)

Chris
-- 
Christopher Mauritz       |  Ask me about public access unix
ritz@mordor.com           |  and interactive internet services.
Mordor International BBS  |  BBS: (201)433-7343,(212)843-3451
Jersey City, NJ           |  FAX: (201)433-4222

------------------------------

From: mduncan@sugar.NeoSoft.COM (Mike Duncan)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: "crypt" or equivalents in Linux
Date: 17 Aug 1994 11:26:35 -0500

In article <32semc$dve@trane.uninett.no>,
Harald T. Alvestrand <hta@uninett.no> wrote:
>Having crypto software in something free is a MAJOR hassle, due to the
>dain-bramaged policies enforced by the National Security Agency of the US.
>
>(If DES was in Linux, the US site maintainers would be criminals
>every time someone fetched a copy from outside the US - even though it
>originated outside the US, and is freely available there! *That*, I call
>dain-bramaged.....)

Yeah -- we distribute rockets and bombs to half the pissant countries
in the world, but aging, compromised crypto is Right Out!  At least the
one-worlders in Washington have their priorities straight....
-- 
mduncan@sugar.neosoft.com         finger for pgp key; too long for .sig file
the future: looking at a clock at midnight and thinking the power has failed


------------------------------

From: nils@cs.dartmouth.edu (Nils Nieuwejaar)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 17 Aug 1994 16:08:53 GMT

vinberg@cc.Helsinki.FI (Olli Vinberg) writes:
   Nils Nieuwejaar <nils@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
   >
   >It doesn't have to be Linux-specific to be useful.  How many XFree86
   >issues actually are linux-specific?  The implementation issues may be,
   >but dot clocks, etc are video card/monitor specific - not which unix
   >you are runnning.

   Not everyone has time to follow zillion different newsgroups.

This is true.  So, how would adding another newsgroup to discuss
exatly the same topics as c.w.x.i386 help?

   >Think about that for a second.  If it would be appropriate for the
   >posts in question to be crossposted to an existing group, then that
   >implies that there is already someplace for that discussion to take
   >place.  If there is already someplace for the discussion to take
   >place, why do we need a new group?

   Ah.. I have a different view on this one.. It is possible to have
   discussion on basically the same things on different forums, by
   different people and different viewpoints.

It is possible, but to what end?  That is certainly a good argument
for adding new soc.religion or talk.politics groups, but I don't think
it makes much sense when we are talking about hardware.

   the pc-hardware groups have too high a volume to be of any help to
   someone who only needs an answer to a simple question. It might be good
   to have a hardware-group under the linux-hierarchy, so everything
   wouldn't get lost in the flood.

If it is in the linux hierarchy, it should be about linux.

------------------------------

From: nils@cs.dartmouth.edu (Nils Nieuwejaar)
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 17 Aug 1994 16:24:15 GMT

de5@de5.CTD.ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:
 nils@cs.dartmouth.edu (Nils Nieuwejaar) writes:
   >de5@de5.CTD.ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:
   >
   >   Cool, I didn't know about that one.  Unfortunately the name is terribly
   >   misleading--that's why I never discovered it.  But c.w.x.i386unix isn't
   >   Linux-specific, and, IMO, Linux is big enough to warrant it's own video
   >   hardware group.
   >
   >It doesn't have to be Linux-specific to be useful.

   Agreed.  It's useful--it's just hard to find and not even
   XFree86-specific.  I'm sure i386unix made sense when it was created, but

There is a pointer in the FAQ to it.

   it's about the last place I'd look for information about X under Linux
   unless I knew otherwise.

That is an outgrowth of the lack of perspective I've been talking
about.  As soon as you realize that you have a question about X rather
than a question about linux, the name of the group makes much more
sense.  Similarly, many of the hardware problems that would be
discussed in c.o.l.hardware.* will have little or nothing to do with
linux.  Just because we use linux does not mean that all our questions
are linux-related.  That would be like asking MCI to fix your phone if
the handset breaks.

   >   I don't see any problem with xposts to c.s.ibm.pc.hardware groups
   >
   >Think about that for a second.  If it would be appropriate for the
   >posts in question to be crossposted to an existing group, then that
   >implies that there is already someplace for that discussion to take
   >place.

   No, it implies there's *more*than*one*place for *a*particular*
   *discussion* to take place--although the "discussion" may simply be a
   request for information rather than a dialogue.

What do we gain by carrying on the same discussion in multiple places?
If we create a bunch of new hardware groups, many of the people who
actually have the answers won't be reading them - they will be reading
c.s.i.p.h.*.

   And sometimes
   the answer *will* be Linux-specific.  Requiring the user to know that
   much about the problem before he can figure out where to ask the
   question seems unfair and unlikely to happen, at best.

This is true.  I would support comp.os.linux.hardware for just this
reason.  However, I don't think there are enough hardware issues which
are linux-related to justify creating a new 5-group hierarchy.

------------------------------

From: nils@cs.dartmouth.edu (Nils Nieuwejaar)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 17 Aug 1994 16:35:49 GMT

de5@de5.CTD.ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:
  phil@plisgyn.demon.co.uk (Philip H Jones) writes:

   > The main problem is postings not specific to linux constantly
   > being posted i.e Xconfig for x card and y monitor wanted,

   Agreed.  Now, what do you propose as a solution?  Bury your head in the
   sand, or create a place for Linux users to talk about video stuff?

How about just pointing people to the appropriate newsgroup?

   > and people not reading the newsgroups before 
   > posting accounting for the same questions being asked time and again.

   Agreed, again.  But again, what's your solution?  Mine is to create
   subgroups to break the level of traffic down to reasonable levels and make
   it easier for people to find the articles that answer their questions so
   they don't need to repost them.

If they don't read the current newsgroups, why would you expect them
to read new ones?  I agree that a few would be more likely to read a
group first if it had lower traffic, but I've never seen anything to
convince me that most people would.

Wouldn't it make more sense just to start with c.o.l.hardware, and
create subgroups in the future if it becomes necessary?

------------------------------

From: adap@andrews.edu (Edsel Adap)
Subject: Routing table question
Date: 17 Aug 1994 15:02:37 GMT


Hello Linux Gurus,

I have a question about the output of netstat -rn and route.
When I issue these commands I get the following:
alice:/etc# route
Kernel routing table
Destination net/address   Gateway address           Flags RefCnt    Use Iface
loopback                  *                         UH         0      0 lo
loopback                  *                         UH         0      0 lo

alice:/etc> netstat -rn
Kernel routing table
Destination net/address   Gateway address           Flags RefCnt    Use Iface
127.0.0.1                 *                         UH         0      0 lo
127.0.0.1                 *                         UH         0      0 lo

Is this something I should be worrying about?  Especially when I plan to
eventually connect  this machine to the internet via PPP.

Thanks in advance for any pointers to HOWTO's FAQ, flames, comments,
answers.  (BTW, this was not on the NET-2-HOWTO)

-- 
 Edsel Adap                         B. S. Computer Science / Mathematics
 adap@andrews.edu                   Andrews University, Berrien Springs, MI

The Briggs/Chase Law of Program Development:

------------------------------

From: cmetz@thor.tjhsst.edu (Craig Metz)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Anyone gotten a NCR53c810 working on a Plato (P90) motherboard?
Date: 17 Aug 1994 11:17:26 -0400

        Could anyone who has gotten a NCR53c810 (or any other chip in that
series) based SCSI host adapter to work on a system with an Intel 
Priemere/PCI II (aka Plato) motherboard please let me know? It is my
understanding that this should work with a BIOS rev 1.00.8AX1, but I would
like to confirm that there are real people who have this working.

                                                                -Craig

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
From: gert@greenie.muc.de (Gert Doering)
Subject: Re: FAX software available?
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 14:44:01 GMT

berke@panix.com (Wayne Berke) writes:

>I am considering a PD UNIX and one of the factors in my choice will be
>what kind of FAX software (not necessarily free) there will be available.

Free software available for Linux:

mgetty+sendfax (class 2, class 2.0), 
        ftp.informatik.tu-muenchen.de:/tmp/mgetty021*

efax (class 1, class 2)
        sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/System/apps/comm/efax* (??)

FlexFax (all types of fax command sets)
        sgi.com:~ftp/sgi/fax/*

mgetty runs on *BSD as well, FlexFax and efax should, but I'm not sure.

gert
-- 
Yield to temptation ... it may not pass your way again!  --  Lazarus Long
                                                            //www.muc.de/~gert
Gert Doering - Munich, Germany                             gert@greenie.muc.de
fax: +49-89-3243328                         gert.doering@physik.tu-muenchen.de

------------------------------

From: newcombe@aa.csc.peachnet.edu (Dan Newcombe)
Subject: Re: Linux in Open Computing mag
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 14:02:31 UNDEFINED

In article <Cuot0p.Irz@eskimo.com> fyl@eskimo.com (Phil Hughes) writes:

>And two years from now maybe McGraw-Hill will want to buy Linux Journal
>(and turn it into a rag too). :-)

Or maybe Ziff-Davis could buy it, and it can be all about Microsoft and their 
contributions to Linux :)

--
Dan Newcombe                    newcombe@aa.csc.peachnet.edu
Clayton State College           Morrow, Georgia
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"And the man in the mirror has sad eyes."       -Marillion

------------------------------

From: fyl@eskimo.com (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Re: Installing Slackware Professional CD-Rom from Mitsumi...
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 15:57:21 GMT

Rasquin Jean-Pierre (rasquin@crpcu.lu) wrote:
: Hi,

: I received my Slackware CD-Rom yesterday and wanted to install it. The problem 
: I have is that my Mitsumi (connected to a Soundblaster) is set up at defaults 
: (340h, IRQ10) but the included bootdisk looks for it at 300h, IRQ11 ? Now I'd 
: like to know if there is no way to configure (e.g. enter some parameter when 
: asked to enter parameter for PS/1 or so) the address and IRQ for the Mitsumi. 
: I wouldn't like to open my Computer again (I've kept doing this for 4 months 
: now...) and by the way, the Soundblaster (Pro 2.0 8bit) doesn't allow to set 
: the address at 300h, only 304h 308h 320h 340h :-( How could I at least build 
: or find a built bootdisk that allows this ?
I don't have the that particular distribution here so this may or may not
work but the basic plan is to give lilo some options.  An example of this
is in Linux Installation and Getting Started in section 2.5.2.3 (it's page
61 in my copy but I have the SSC one which is newer and paginated
different from the one that comes with your CD.  The example is showing
how to do this with a SCSI controller.  Assuming that the Mitsumi driver
is willing to take a parameter (which I also can't check as I don't have
the same distribution) something like:
      linux mcd=10,340
should get you going.  (mcd is the name of the mitsumi driver)
--
Phil Hughes, Publisher, Linux Journal (206) 527-3385
usually phil@fylz.com, sometimes fyl@eskimo.com

------------------------------

From: fyl@eskimo.com (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Re: Linux in Open Computing mag
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 16:12:23 GMT

Bill Tate (btate@encore.com) wrote:
: bmccarth@gulfaero.com (Bill McCarthy) writes:
: >FWIW dept: Open Computing magazine, Sept 1994, pp.83-87, has an article about
: >linux titled "Cheap & Uneasy: BSD/386 and Linux". Pretty interesting.
: about two years ago the same sort of thing that was said about Linux
: could be said about SCO and all the other Intel based Unix.  Given
: two more years Linux should be able to overcome some of the shortfalls.
: Two years ago WP was just available for SCO.  Open has become a 
: Rag since it changed from UNIX WORLD.

And two years from now maybe McGraw-Hill will want to buy Linux Journal
(and turn it into a rag too). :-)
--
Phil Hughes, Publisher, Linux Journal (206) 527-3385
usually phil@fylz.com, sometimes fyl@eskimo.com

------------------------------

From: dwb@ITD.Sterling.COM (David Boyd)
Subject: Re: IDEA: termfs - NFS-like fs for Term
Date: 17 Aug 1994 15:37:49 GMT

In article <WSLEE.94Aug15130254@almond-frost.ai.mit.edu>,
Whay S. Lee <wslee@ai.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>In article <32o3e4$a3m@fozzy.aud.alcatel.com> 
>cbagwell@aud.alcatel.com (Chris Bagwell) writes:
> 
> > In article 7sn@gjalp.ifi.uio.no, 
> > sverrehu@ifi.uio.no (Sverre H. Huseby) writes:
> > > How about making a new filesystem called termfs, that supports
> > > mounting a directory on a computer accessed by term?
> 
> > It sounds like a good idea to me.  I know that it would be slow but
> > it shouldn't be  any slower than doing a tupload and it would be 
> > a lot more convenient.  It would also work well on editing smallish 
> > textfiles (such as source code) on remote computers.
>
>       How about caching the remote files on the local disk ?
>       AFS support?
>
>whay.
        I looked awhile back at hacking the userfs version of the
ftp filesystem for term.  I ran afoul of the non-blocking I/O used
and ran out of time researching the problem. (Maybe I will get back
to this later this month).  The ftp filesystem did do local caching
so it was fairly efficient.  Another possibility, is that someone (I 
forget who) recently released software which behaved like NFS but used
FTP for underlying transport (I believe this was posted to comp.sources.misc).
That should be really easy to hack to work with term.

        On the other hand given the UDP support in term.2.0.X there are several
approaches which could be implemented using either the NFS protocol or a
term specific protocol but would envolve some fairly extensive hacking.  I
personally think an FTP/term based filesystem would be the shortest path
between two points.

-- 
David W. Boyd                UUCP:     uunet!sparky!dwb
Sterling Software ITD        INTERNET: Dave_Boyd@Sterling.COM
1404 Ft. Crook Rd. South     Phone:    (402) 291-8300 
Bellevue, NE. 68005-2969     FAX:      (402) 291-4362
I survived - Seoul Sea of Fire Tour 94

------------------------------

From: hpulley@uoguelph.ca (Harry C Pulley)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion)
Date: 17 Aug 1994 15:44:33 GMT

>Downloading the rest at 9600 bps (or less) might be somewhat slower
>than feeding the 40 floppies :-) Or impossible, if you don't have net
>access at all from home.

Actually, I think 40 floppies is an exaggeration.  I did it selectively (I
don't use emacs, TeX, some other packages, etc.) so I only needed 28 floppies
worth.  

My 14400 bps modem @57600 port speed was going at 1700cps or better so it 
didn't take that long, really.

I did the minimal floppy-then-download thing.  I just left my machine on while
I went to work.  When I came home all the files were there.  No biggie.

This was the big thing holding me back for a long time.  It turned out to be
much less hassel than I thought it would be.

Harry
--
<:-{}   hpulley@uoguelph.ca       |This message released|It takes all kinds,
 \      Harry C. Pulley, IV       |to the PUBLIC DOMAIN.|and to each his own.
==================================+=====================|This thought in mind,
Stay away from the DOS side, Luke!|Un*x don't play that.|I walk alone.

------------------------------

From: jaewan@phys.ufl.edu
Subject: Any other Filemanager?
Date: 17 Aug 1994 17:16:42 GMT

Dear Linucists [?]:

Are there any other filemanagers that are available than the two in
slackware distribution?

Thanks.


------------------------------


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