Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #620
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Tue, 16 Aug 94 20:13:11 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #620, Volume #2                Tue, 16 Aug 94 20:13:11 EDT

Contents:
  SS5 stop shipping, can any one confirm it ? (Bo Liang)
  Re: tredir: Can't bind to requested address.  s = -1 (Dan Lawrence)
  Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????) (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
  Re: multi part uuencode... (Andrew R. Tefft)
  Re: multi part uuencode... (Andrew R. Tefft)
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: Linux in Open Computing mag (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (Terry Lambert)
  Socksified version of Mosaic for Linux available? (Peter Mutsaers)
  Announcing Splitvt 1.5.6 (Sam Oscar Lantinga)
  Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion) (Dan Pop)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: liang@unixg.ubc.ca (Bo Liang)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.solaris,comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: SS5 stop shipping, can any one confirm it ?
Date: 16 Aug 1994 18:45:48 GMT

        I was told by my sales rep. that Sun has stopped shipping SS5 
temporarily due to a memory chip problem, can any one confirm it ?

B. Liang
UBC   


------------------------------

From: dan@coho.halcyon.com (Dan Lawrence)
Crossposted-To: halcyon.general
Subject: Re: tredir: Can't bind to requested address.  s = -1
Date: 16 Aug 1994 19:30:35 GMT

In article <32p0t2$iva@news.halcyon.com>,
Elf Sternberg <elf@chinook.halcyon.com> wrote:
>       I'm running term 1.18 on both ends through halcyon.  Everything 
>works... I can even get Mosaic to work!  (Thanks for the suggestions, 

I am also running term 1.18 on linux I installed from
/archive/pub/linux/slackware...  (any idea if that is the latest
version?) and just got it to work yesterday.  I had to complie the
linecheck program from term118.tar to figure out what characters needed
to be escaped.  I found that no characters needed to be escaped!

I'm a little confused.  What are you having a problem with?  Mosaic?  or
term in general?  Does termncftp work? (or any ftp at all?)  How about
trsh?  or tupload?

>BTW).  Now, I'm still stuck.  My /etc/hosts file looks like:
>
>127.0.0.1      localhost       pendor
>
>       "pendor" being the name of my Linux box.  However, no matter what 
>I do, I get
>
>Can't bind to requested address. s = -1
>Nothing to do.
>
>       Do I have to have TCP/IP in my kernel or not?  Does it have to be 
>loaded to work?  (I currently get the "you may ignore this error" when I 
>boot up).  Any suggestions?  Anyone with similar experiences?

I don't have TCP/IP installed in my kernal, so I guess it isn't needed
for term to work.  I have sucessfuly used termncftp, trsh, tupload,
gopher (for term).  I haven't configured mail yet, but I plan to.  I
haven't been able to find Mosaic for term yet though.  Where did yo find
it?  Are there any good sites for term apps besides sunside.unc.edu?
Where did you get Mosaic and do you need to know anything special to get
it to work?

I also saw that the currect version of term is 2.0.x (6 I think).  Maybe
we should update the version?  The README file on sunsite describes 1.18
as mostly stable and 2.0 as being mostly stable.

What do you think?
--
dan@halcyon.com
Dan & Amy Lawrence
Seattle, WA  USA

------------------------------

From: dlj0@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
Subject: Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????)
Date: 16 Aug 1994 15:56:26 -0400

In article <32qfja$i3g@wumpus.cc.uow.edu.au>, mai@wumpus.cc.uow.edu.au (Van Dao Mai) writes:
>bogdan@crl.com (Bogdan Urma) writes:
>
>>     I've looked around also, and apparently these are the only 2 companies
>>which have Motif for Linux. I finally dished out the $149 and bought the
>>just released SWiM Motif 1.2.4 for Linux. The price may seem high in the 
>>Linux community, where users are used to getting software for free, but in
>>reality it's very little for such a fine product.
><<< is there any need for Motif? Is it much better than FVWM windows
>manager? I run FVWM and love it for its speed. A bit of time spent in
>customisation makes it perfect. Unless there are special software in Motif
>that makes the package worth while I would not go for it.
>
To each his/her own.   I like the Motif widgets.  I found that MetroLink's 
Motif was very much worth the money.  THe window manager is also good, but 
the real appeal is the library, and the programs you can build from it.

David L. Johnson                             ID:  dlj0@lehigh.edu
Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015       Telephone: 610-758-3759 (office)
                                                        610-828-3708 (home)
MS-DOS: Just say No!

------------------------------

From: teffta@erie.ge.com (Andrew R. Tefft)
Subject: Re: multi part uuencode...
Reply-To: teffta@erie.ge.com
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 20:58:39 GMT

uuencode file file | split

leaves you with files named xaa xab xac etc.

I believe split has an option to specify something else as a filename
pattern.

The magic of unix -- learn it, live it, love it!

---

Andy Tefft               - new, expanded .sig -     teffta@erie.ge.com



------------------------------

From: teffta@erie.ge.com (Andrew R. Tefft)
Subject: Re: multi part uuencode...
Reply-To: teffta@erie.ge.com
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 20:59:41 GMT

In article 000CFAD4@teadmin.stuaffrs.wayne.edu, ALAN@teadmin.stuaffrs.wayne.edu writes:
>Can anyone point me at a program that will uuencode a large file into several 
>smaller mail-sized pieces?  I've got such a thing in MSDOS, but I'm looking at 
>automating several of those processes using Linux.

Here you can experience the beauty of the Unix philosophy. Instead of
needing a specialized program, you simply pipe the uuencode into a split.


---

Andy Tefft               - new, expanded .sig -     teffta@erie.ge.com



------------------------------

From: mark@taylor.infi.net (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 19:42:02 GMT

dmw@prism1.prism1.com (David Wright) writes:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>>> "RK" == Rick Kelly <rmk@rmkhome.com> writes:

>  RK> There is a gray area between iBCS2 and SCO.

>       Hah. What an understatement. But this really isn't the fault of SCO
>or the iBCS2 specs. What are you supposed to do when an executable is linked
>with shared libs? The fact that it is compiled in iBCS2 format means nothing
>if the binary expects vendor-specific libraries to be present. Of course,
>someone can write compatible libraries to be used as replacements (a'la the
>Linux iBCS2 emulator project's SVR4 work), but that increases the amount of
>work done.

>       I suppose that a concientious developer could provide a static binary
>image (which should run fine), and shared images for whatever systems they
>want to support directly. At installation time they could ask or determine
>which image to install from the media based on what version of Unix was in
>use.

Seems like an earth shattering idea, but that is exactly what I have been
pushing.  At least for large X/Motif programs like WordPerfect.  WordPerfect
is a good example- their binary is static, and over 6MB.  But they chose
to use static to increase compatibility between the various SCO shared
library versions (and to support ISC & others with the same binary).  It
would not have been much more work for them to include a few dynamic
binaries to save memory for those who want to use them (maybe from 6 down to
3 or 4 MB).  In any case, from a Linux perspective, it is good news that
most commercial SCO software is static..... it means it has a chance of
running under Linux, even if "officially unsupported".  

-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis     | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk,VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Director/SysAdmin | Information Systems  |    mark@taylor.infi.net       |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.hp.apps,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps,comp.unix.unixware
From: mark@taylor.infi.net (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 19:43:07 GMT

msohnius@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius) writes:

>David Harding (evanc@bkanhf.bnr.ca) wrote:
>: Martin Sohnius (msohnius@novell.co.uk) wrote:
>: : Standalone, you were probably root. Other users are not.
>: : Root errors are serious, others are not (or should not be).
>: : What does Linux say when you do

>: :    # rm -r / tmp

>: I don't know what it says, but I know that on my SCO system, it wiped out
>: the root directory and then said that tmp was a directory.  Yes, I have
>: done this before :-)

>On Xenix it used to say (after a while) "/bin/rmdir not found" and die.
>But only after it had wiped the contents of /bin. :-)

I don't particularly want to try here it and find out!!!

o   -
  <
\___/
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis     | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk,VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Director/SysAdmin | Information Systems  |    mark@taylor.infi.net       |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: mark@taylor.infi.net (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Linux in Open Computing mag
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 19:48:22 GMT

btate@encore.com (Bill Tate) writes:

>about two years ago the same sort of thing that was said about Linux
>could be said about SCO and all the other Intel based Unix.  Given
>two more years Linux should be able to overcome some of the shortfalls.
>Two years ago WP was just available for SCO.  Open has become a 
>Rag since it changed from UNIX WORLD.

Actually, that is not true.  WordPerfect has been available for several
versions of Unix for several years....  We were using it under Altos Unix
even 6 years ago, I think.  Of course, they have lots more versions now.

If Linux can keep compatibility from one version to the next, WordPerfect
Corp  just *might* support running the SCO/ICBS version of Unix WordPerfect
under Linux (they wouldn't have much to lose by doing so).

>"If you think health care is expensive now wait till it free.

Yep, tell me about it.....  more Socialism on the way.... hold on to your
wallet.
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis     | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk,VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Director/SysAdmin | Information Systems  |    mark@taylor.infi.net       |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.hp.apps,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps,comp.unix.unixware
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: 16 Aug 1994 21:54:23 GMT

In article <1994Aug14.192616.898@mbsks.franken.de> m@mbsks.franken.de (Matthias Bruestle) writes:
] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Just as a side comment, how can someone tell a forger's correct PGP
signature on a forged message from an authors correct PGP signature
on an unforged message?


] I think people A program better than all other, because they have the
] most fun. (If a pupuil is very interessted in some subject at scholl
] he has better marks than in other subjects.) Than the people who
] must do their best to keep theit job. And at last the people who
] work for the taxpayer's money. I think the problem with these people
] ist that they spend not their "own" money and don't need to make
] money for the firm.

People who program for fun don't do release engineering.  They also do
not necessarily complete things past the point of knowing that they will
be capable of completing it, but that what's left is "grunt work".   This
is the main reason that volunteer efforts tend to be only fractionally
productive.

There has never been a second generation volunteer effort.  Note that
this is different from a 2.0 revision, which certainly exists, but the
fact is that the goals pursued in a volunteer effort are different from
those in a commercial effort.  This is why you may have seen me state
(or been quoted to state) that it is not possible to do research in a
commercial environment.

The second problem with voluntary vs. paid programming is that the code
quality suffers in the categories of portability and maintainability by
a third party, unless these are already habitual in the programmer.  This
is why Linux has some portability issues, like direct use of the TSS and
other Intel architecture dependencies.

The third and final problem with voluntary vs. paid is that there is no
incentive beyond "fun" to cause people to work at working together.  This
is why there is a NetBSD/FreeBSD split: the incentives for working apart
are larger than the incentives for working together.

The hypothetical pupil in the quoted material above's grades will reflect,
in an extreme case, not the ability of the pupil, but the pupil's interest
in the subject.  This is both good and bad, in that we can't always work
on interesting things as employees -- we work on what we are told to work
on instead of what we want to work on, and we do this in trade for money.


As in school as in life, the quality level of ones work rarely reflects
on their employability.  Many people work in the computer industry because
that's where they think the money is.  These are generally people who
constantly change jobs in the belief that because they know how to do
their job, they should enjoy it, and so they proceed in a vain search
for fulfillment.  I disagree that the quality control mechanisms exist
which can form a causal link between code quality and employability.  In
most situations, the majority of performance is rated on schedule, followed
a close second by politcs.


The cynicism in assuming anything funded by a government is therefore by
definition bad is clear in your post; however, even if we were willing
to grant that (I'm not), the funding for things like "Linux" is not in
the majority government.  It is in the opportunity costs of the
programmers, who could be doing something else which would actually
result in money.  Most of these projects are, then, by definition, self
funded by the programmers.

Even in the case of educational institutions, there are few co-op and
work-study positions wher you are required to kernel-hack "Linux" or
similar software.  The work is done in their spare time, not during
funded time (the majority of institutions in the US are student funded
as well as publically funded, and the non-secular instituitions are
wholly operated through private funding -- like BYU here in Utah).


So while I may agree with one of your major premises, to wit that code
resulting from the love of coding tends to be higher quality, I disagree
with the conclusions you draw as a result, and I disagree with your other
major premises.


                                        Regards,
                                        Terry Lambert
                                        terry@cs.weber.edu
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

------------------------------

From: plm@atcmp.nl (Peter Mutsaers)
Subject: Socksified version of Mosaic for Linux available?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 19:49:49 GMT

As the subject says, I am looking for a socksified version of
Mosaic. Since I do not have Motif I need a precompiled Mosaic and
cannot socksify it myself. 

Unless I patch libc itself to make the standard system calls
use socks: has that been done before?

Thanks,
--
Peter Mutsaers                  |  AT Computing bv,  P.O. Box 1428,
plm@atcmp.nl                    |  6501 BK  Nijmegen, The Netherlands
tel. work: +31 (0)80 527248     |
tel. home: +31 (0)3405 71093    |  "... En..., doet ie het al?"

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.sources
From: slouken@cs.ucdavis.edu (Sam Oscar Lantinga)
Subject: Announcing Splitvt 1.5.6
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 22:17:06 GMT


        Well, I was waiting to release a complete rewrite of the
splitvt terminal driver, but I seem to be a bit too busy to get to
that for a while.  Gee. :)

Announcing the newest version of splitvt!

What it is:

        Splitvt is a program that splits any vt100 compatible 
screen into two - an upper and lower window in which you can run
two programs at the same time.  Splitvt differs from screen in 
that while screen gives you multiple virtual screens, splitvt splits
your screen into two fully visible windows.  You can even use 
splitvt with screen to provide multiple split screens.  This can 
be very handy when running over a modem.

What can I use it for?

        Well, at this time, I am aware of several ways in which
people are using splitvt.  Some people like to use it over the modem
to allow them more than one window at a time, others like to use it
in xterms because they prefer having everything on the screen at once,
and some people are using it in conjunction with the -rcfile option 
to automate system administration tasks.
        If you are using splitvt in a new and unusual way,
I'd like to hear about it! 
Direct all comments to slouken@cs.ucdavis.edu

Where can I get it?

        Splitvt is available for anonymous ftp from
dewdrop.water.ca.gov in the /pub/Linux directory.  You can also get
it from sunsite.unc.edu in /pub/Linux/Incoming for now, hopefully to
be moved to /pub/Linux/utils/terminal.  The file is splitvt-1.5.6.tgz
and it is in tarred and gzipped format.

What's new?

        Well, I had planned to do a complete rewrite of the vt100
driver to make it more modular, handle a couple of minor bugs, and
give it some of the features of the great program screen, but I 
probably won't get to it for a while.  In the meantime, I'd like to
release the enhancements and bug fixes right now.
        The new enhancements for splitvt 1.5.5 include a port to
NeXT, specification of a startup file on the command line, 8-bit
output, and enabling and disabling of logging in the programs 
under the windows.
        Release 1.5.6 is primarily a bug fix release.  It fixes
input under xterm support, and a bug that prevented 'w' from reporting
the proper idle time on an idle splitvt window.

What's planned?

        Gee, lots of stuff.  With 1.6, there will be a complete
rewrite of the vt100 driver allowing it to possibly support other
terminal types besides vt100 (in the distant future).  I want to
beef up the startup file syntax so that you can specify the format
of the "status bar", or window divider.  If you have any wishes, 
just let me know, and I'll try to include them in future releases
of splitvt.  I'll try to avoid feeping creaturism, but a few bells
and whistles would be nice. :)
        If I can figure out how to enable 8-bit input, I'll include
that as well.  :)

Bugs?  What bugs?
        Well, there are a couple of bugs.  See the man page for 
a list of the ones I can reproduce.  A few other bugs have been
reported, but I can't reproduce them (i.e. running in an odd 
system software setup).  If you run into these, let me know, and
I'll try to help out as much as possible.

Will it run on my system?

        Well, if you run a UNIX that has pseudo-tty support, 
chances are that splitvt will work on your system.  Splitvt has
been ported to all of the "standard" unices, and also to a few
oddball unices, such as AIX, NewsOS, and NeXT.
Is NewsOS really a UNIX OS? 

Well, that about wraps it up.  I hope you enjoy this software,
originally conceived by Dave Ljung and created by yours truly.


Enjoy!

        -Sam Lantinga           (slouken@cs.ucdavis.edu)


splitvt-1.5.6.lsm ------------------------------------------------
Begin2
Title        = Splitvt - a split windows utility
Version      = 1.5.6
Desc1        = A utility to split a vt100 compatible screen into two halfs,
Desc2        = upper and lower, and run a different program simultaneously
Desc3        = in each half.
Desc4        =
Desc5        =
Author       = Sam Lantinga
AuthorEmail  = slouken@cs.ucdavis.edu
Maintainer   = Sam Lantinga
MaintEmail   = slouken@cs.ucdavis.edu
Site1        = dewdrop.water.ca.gov
Path1        = /pub/Linux
File1        = splitvt-1.5.6.tgz
Site2        = sunsite.unc.edu
Path2        = /pub/Linux/utils/shell
File2        = splitvt-1.5.6.tgz
FileSize1    = 30K
Required1    = VT100 emulating window (e.g. xterm, Linux console, DECterm, etc
Required2    = UNIX (See README for list of ports)
Required3    =
Required4    =
CopyPolicy1  = Shareware - no fee.
CopyPolicy2  =
Keywords     = screen vt100 emulator
Comment1     = This is a pretty useful utility, especially when communicating
Comment2     = to a UNIX system via modem, or when you want to see the output
Comment3     = of two programs simultaneously.
Comment4     = New: Fixed bug in xterm support, fixed apparent idle times
Comment5     =      
Entered      = 16AUG94
EnteredBy    = Sam Lantinga
End


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.coherent
From: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch (Dan Pop)
Subject: Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 20:54:41 GMT

In <32jpr2$nta@whale.st.usm.edu> chambles@whale.st.usm.edu (John William Chambless) writes:

>In article <CuHxo8.4H6@news.cern.ch>, Dan Pop <danpop@cernapo.cern.ch> wrote:
>
>>If you don't intend to use the CD-ROM for any other purposes, feeding
>>40 floppies into the machine is somewhat faster than buying a CD-ROM
>>drive, installing it and installing the software from CD.
>
>Besides...40 floppies?
>Lessee...
>Bootdisk, rootdisk, a[123]
>
>That's five, then you're ready to install it. Then you can download
>the rest. ;)

Downloading the rest at 9600 bps (or less) might be somewhat slower
than feeding the 40 floppies :-) Or impossible, if you don't have net
access at all from home.

The best case scenario is when you have Internet access via Ethernet,
and all you have to install is 6 floppies (the above mentioned 5 plus
n1).

Dan
--
Dan Pop 
CERN, CN Division
Email: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

------------------------------


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