Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #619
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Tue, 16 Aug 94 17:15:54 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #619, Volume #2                Tue, 16 Aug 94 17:15:54 EDT

Contents:
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Dave Sill)
  Re: APC refuses to give out info without NDA (David Lesher)
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Dave Sill)
  Re: FAX software available? (Rob Newberry)
  Re: Speed of MSW binaries under MSW vs. WABI/WINE? (Chris Tilbury)
  Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????) (Jason Van Patten)
  Re: Possible bug in rpc.nfsd (Heiko Schlittermann)
  Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????) (Dan Newcombe)
  Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????) (CLL)
  Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????) (Tom Vaughan)
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (Dan Pop)
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (Dan Pop)
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (Rheal Nadeau)
  Re: Where did "Yggdrasil" come from? (Jason Rimmer)
  Trust HG3311 Handscanner (Stephen Parkinson)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: de5@de5.CTD.ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 16 Aug 1994 16:49:25 GMT

In article <32onhc$lsb@kruuna.Helsinki.FI>, wirzeniu@cc.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius) writes:
>
>I have this nagging feeling that any even-slightly-reasonable Linux
>groups that gets to the vote stage will go through...

A few relatively unused groups would be a small price to pay for improving
the usability of the existing Linux groups, IMO.

>> >There is already a group for this: comp.windows.x.i386unix
>> 
>> Cool, I didn't know about that one.  Unfortunately the name is terribly
>> misleading
>
>It's advertised in the FAQ's, HOWTO's, Meta-FAQ's and various other places.

That's great, but I didn't find it on my own, and I'm not a clueless
newbie.  I used the typical "search the newsgroups file for appropriate
keywords" method and found the various comp.sys.ibm.pc, comp.os.linux, and
related alt.* groups.

>Also, the people who _develop_ the thing hang around in c.w.x.i, not
>in any of the Linux groups.

What's your point?  Are people who can't find the XFree86 newsgroup
supposed to know the developers and where they hang out?

>Also, since lots of people (I assume most,
>but I haven't counted them) have the same trouble with the same hardware
>regardless of their operating system, it rather makes sense to use the
>same group.  Even if it doesn't have "linux" in the name.

But it doesn't even have xfree86 in the name.  I'm on a Pentium...why would
I look for X server discussion in a group called comp.windows.x.i386unix?

>Other than that, do what you wish with the newsgroups, I'm not that
>interested in them anymore.  (As long as you leave
>comp.os.linux.announce alone, that is.)  But please do use the group
>that exists for it for discussions about new groups: news.groups
>(no, it doesn't have "linux" in its name, either :-)  Followups
>redirected there.  (Why was this ever crossposted to c.o.l.help?)
>If you care about the issues, do an RFD.

I'm well aware of news.groups and the RFD/CFV procedures.  It's customary,
though, before proposing a change that might dramatically effect a group,
to discuss it there first and find out if the readership supports it.

If I'd just posted an RFD for a comp.os.linux.hardware hierarchy, I'd
imagine a bunch of people would be rightly upset.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)
Martin Marietta Energy Systems, Workstation Support
URL http://www.dec.com/pub/DEC/DECinfo/html/dsill.html

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.bsd
From: wb8foz@netcom.com (David Lesher)
Subject: Re: APC refuses to give out info without NDA
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 16:36:53 GMT

paul@holmes.ece.orst.edu (Paul Stoffregen) writes:


>It's been my impression that the TrippLites are a bit
>more, but after you read his instructions, I think
>the TrippLite will look pretty attractive for Linux.

I wish I could second that, but I have more than one bad experience
with Tripplite. I had one in an area that required extensive paperwork
to remove it, and a random purchase to replace.  It had a flaw I could
fix easily with a schematic, but oh-no, that would be on the level of
ULTRA SECRET, forget it buddy.

Then a close friend had one running a customer's PBX. It went up taking
out the pbx. You know how the panels on Star Trek always spit sparks
everywhere? I've been an EE for a few years now, and I've never ever
seen sparks shoot like that -- until we reset the breaker feeding that
Tripplite. Weee!

Neither he nor I specs Tripplite anymore.
-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close...........(v)301 56 LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

------------------------------

From: de5@de5.CTD.ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 16 Aug 1994 16:57:46 GMT

In article <1994Aug14.173028.176@plisgyn.demon.co.uk>, phil@plisgyn.demon.co.uk (Philip H Jones) writes:
>  Any extra linux news groups would not reduce the volume in comp.os.linux.help
> as you can see now people do a blanket post to all linux newsgroups.

There's no easy way to do a blanket posting to all the Linux newsgroups. 
Most newsreaders will require you to manually enter the name of each group
you want to post to.  Adding more linux groups will only make it harder to
do blanket postings.

> The main
> problem is postings not specific to linux constantly being posted i.e Xconfig
> for x card and y monitor wanted,

Agreed.  Now, what do you propose as a solution?  Bury your head in the
sand, or create a place for Linux users to talk about video stuff?

> and people not reading the newsgroups before 
> posting accounting for the same questions being asked time and again.

Agreed, again.  But again, what's your solution?  Mine is to create
subgroups to break the level of traffic down to reasonable levels and make
it easier for people to find the articles that answer their questions so
they don't need to repost them.

As it stands now, it's much easier for one to simply ask their question
than it is for them to wade through the thousands if articles in
comp.os.linux.help/comp.os.linux.misc to look for an answer.  I know, I
just went through it--and I had to take extraordinary measures to find what
I was looking for.  Many people aren't willing or able to do that.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)
Martin Marietta Energy Systems, Workstation Support
URL http://www.dec.com/pub/DEC/DECinfo/html/dsill.html

------------------------------

From: rob@eats.com (Rob Newberry)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: FAX software available?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 14:15:28 UNDEFINED

>Flexfax is under 'ports' on FreeBSD sites.

>It's 2.2 which won't handle some Class2 modem chips. (ROCKWELL 144DP for
>one)

>Flexfax 2.3beta is on sgi.com and has some fixes. It suposedly has
>config files for BSD versions.

>In either case, you need bash, gmake, ghostscript, and
>GNU sed and expr.

>Flexfax is also the most annoying package I've tried to install. The
>documentation is pretty well hidden and often useless.

While I will admit that FlexFax can be difficult to install, it is also the 
most powerful program I've seen.  I have set it up here, and it now allows me 
to send faxes from any Windows machine I have hooked up to my net (and I am 
in the process of getting Macs to work, too).  It receives faxes and emails 
me, and should autoprint them as soon as I get time.

Yes, it was a pain to get up and going with, but it is quite nice when you get 
there.  And I didn't find the docs too bad...

Rob



------------------------------

From: cjt@aspen.estate.warwick.ac.uk (Chris Tilbury)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.solaris,comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Speed of MSW binaries under MSW vs. WABI/WINE?
Date: 16 Aug 1994 18:24:27 GMT

Ajay Shah (ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu) wrote:
: Do MSW binaries run faster (on identical hardware) under Unix
: with WABI|WINE as compared with running under MSW 3.x?

: A friend of mine claims the underlying display functions of X can't
: be faster than those of MSW 3.x.

Measuring the performance of the "underlying display functions of X"
is, I suggest, probably as useless as measuring the performance of the
"underlying display functions of MS Windows". They sound like a
classic "benchmark" to me.

Start comparing what happens to graphics performance when you've got a
number of heavy duty applications running on a machine that's also
networked, and you have a more realistic indication of graphics
performance.

That's when the limitations of the OS start to kick in and when UNIX
and the X Windowing system walk all over MS Windows.

--
Chris Tilbury, Estates Office, Warwick University, Coventry, CV4 7AL, England
INET:    C.Tilbury@warwick.ac.uk           PHONE:    +44 1203 523430 (phONEday)
Click <a href="http://information.estate.warwick.ac.uk/~cjt/">here</a>.







------------------------------

From: vanpatjm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Jason Van Patten)
Subject: Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????)
Date: 16 Aug 1994 17:18:37 GMT

Van Dao Mai (mai@wumpus.cc.uow.edu.au) wrote:
: <<< is there any need for Motif? Is it much better than FVWM windows
: manager? I run FVWM and love it for its speed. A bit of time spent in
: customisation makes it perfect. Unless there are special software in Motif

        Well, fvwm can be made to look and almost exactly like Motif.  This 
is a plus, in my book anyhow.

: that makes the package worth while I would not go for it.

        With the package, you ALSO get the C header files and libraries if I'm
not mistaken.  These don't come with fvwm.  This is a minus, in my book.

        Without these toys, you can't develop/compile Motif-only programs.  Of
course, if you have no plans to do any such compiling.. then fvwm is probably
fine.

                                                Jason


--
Jason Van Patten                  | If at first you don't succeed, keep |
Clarkson University               | on sucking till you do succeed.     |
vanpatjm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu  |                     - Curly Howard  |
                                  |                 (The Three Stooges) |
            ** Any opinions expressed here are actually
               yours, you just don't know it, yet. **
 

------------------------------

From: heiko@lotte.sax.de (Heiko Schlittermann)
Subject: Re: Possible bug in rpc.nfsd
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 15:46:38 GMT

Michael Faurot <mfaurot@phzzzt.atww.org> wrote:
>In article <37800003@glas> you wrote:
>I'm seeing the same thing with a 1.0.8 kernel.  Initially it's owned
>by root.  Do a mount from another machine running a DOS NFS client,
>and then the thing is owned by that user.
>
>I've also had problems too when the DOS client dies/locks-up without
>having first unmounted the filesystem, it causes the rpc.nfsd daemon
>to cause the Linux filesystem to busy.  

Even if the dos client does a properly umount the busy message will
appear.

-- heiko


------------------------------

From: newcombe@aa.csc.peachnet.edu (Dan Newcombe)
Subject: Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 15:02:02 UNDEFINED

In article <32qfja$i3g@wumpus.cc.uow.edu.au> mai@wumpus.cc.uow.edu.au (Van Dao Mai) writes:
><<< is there any need for Motif? Is it much better than FVWM windows
>manager? I run FVWM and love it for its speed. A bit of time spent in
>customisation makes it perfect. Unless there are special software in Motif
>that makes the package worth while I would not go for it.

As others have said, with the full package, you can then compile Motif 
programs.  But one thing I didn't see mentioned was the shared libraries.  
While you can get ahold of statically linked apps, they're memory requirements 
will be a lot bigger than that of something that uses the shared libraries.

My .01
        -Dan


--
Dan Newcombe                    newcombe@aa.csc.peachnet.edu
Clayton State College           Morrow, Georgia
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"And the man in the mirror has sad eyes."       -Marillion

------------------------------

From: chris2@v-one.com (CLL)
Subject: Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????)
Date: 16 Aug 1994 17:13:18 GMT

Just a note to sharpen the whole issue of who needs Motif...
The mwm is only a small, even trivial, part of the Motif package.
I can see no reason why someone would pay $149 dollars to get the
window manager. However for development the Motif package provides
a robust package of widgets that is a de facto industry standard.
The Motif package is a development resource that provides resources
for X windows developers. This makes it useful and worth the $149
dollars. After all, it is a commercial development product. If this
bothers you, you should volunteer to help out with the free widget
projects that are trying to develop free Motif look alikes and other
extensions or use tk/tcl. I hope this will clarify the issues and
stop all the post that say "just use *wm" or "why isn't it free".

Chris

------------------------------

From: vaughan@$TIN_DOMAIN (Tom Vaughan)
Subject: Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????)
Date: 16 Aug 1994 18:39:43 GMT

Seth J. Morabito (sethm@pnet1.pnet.com) wrote:
: Van Dao Mai (mai@wumpus.cc.uow.edu.au) wrote:
: : bogdan@crl.com (Bogdan Urma) writes:

: : >     I've looked around also, and apparently these are the only 2 companies
: : >which have Motif for Linux. I finally dished out the $149 and bought the
: : >just released SWiM Motif 1.2.4 for Linux. The price may seem high in the 
: : >Linux community, where users are used to getting software for free, but in
: : >reality it's very little for such a fine product.
: : <<< is there any need for Motif? Is it much better than FVWM windows
: : manager? I run FVWM and love it for its speed. A bit of time spent in
: : customisation makes it perfect. Unless there are special software in Motif
: : that makes the package worth while I would not go for it.

: The reason you would pay $149 for the Motif distribution is not simply
: to get the motif window manager, but to get the motif libraries and
: includes and widgets that make up the motif API.  I use FVWM myself, and 
: would probably continue to use it even if I did get the SWiM Motif package,
: but if you want to write applications using Motif widgets (for example,
: Mosaic -- the menus, slide bars, and dialogue boxes are all motif widgets)
: you need the Motif libraries and include files.  THAT's what the money
: is for.  And well worth it IMHO.  Unless you yourself are planning on
: doing any developing or compiling of apps written with Motif, then you
: probably don't want the Motif package.

: : Cheers,
: : Van Dao
: : Wollongong University

: -Seth 
: --
: Seth J. Morabito  (sjm1@cornell.edu  sethm@pnet.com)
: Cornell University Flavoured Leech Processing Center
: "Mmmmm... them's DAMN fine leeches!"
:             -- Another satisfied customer


        What sort of documentation comes with your version of Motif?

        Thanks, Tom


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.hp.apps,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps,comp.unix.unixware
From: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch (Dan Pop)
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 18:00:13 GMT

In <CuL7xy.2o0@novell.co.uk> msohnius@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius) writes:

>Dan Pop (danpop@cernapo.cern.ch) wrote:
>
>: >: Your customers are completely irrelevant to Linux and its future.
>: >
>: >No they aren't.  Their personal and corporate taxes are paying for the
>: >better part of Linux development.  
>
>: For a part of Linux development, maybe. Can you prove it's the better
>: part? And anyway, I'm ready to bet that if they had the choice, they
>: wouldn't pay for it :-) So, they continue to be completely irrelevant to
>: Linux and its future.
>
>Until they find out what's happening to their tax dollars - and if what you
>say is true, that "if they had the choice they wouldn't pay for it,"  they
>might just write to their Congressperson or Member of Parliament.  It is
>very dangerous for the scientific community as a whole to appear too smug
>when dealing with Joe Public.  Do you really want to cut the branch upon
>which you are sitting?  It is in this context that I referred to the
>status of CERN personnel.

You're completely incoherent here. Linux is _not_ developed at CERN,
as far as I know, but correct me if I'm wrong. And FYI, I'm not part
of CERN personnel.  Most of the people working at CERN and posting from
CERN are not CERN personnel either.

It is indeed very dangerous for the scientific community to depend on
the politicians. Look at what happened, less than one year ago, with
the SSC project in the US. But I have some doubts that Linux was
responsible for the cancellation of that project, after 2.6 billion
dollars were spent :-) And probably the tax payers weren't responsible
either.

Needless to say, these are only my opinions,
Dan
--
Dan Pop 
CERN, CN Division
Email: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware
From: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch (Dan Pop)
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 18:05:38 GMT

In <CuL8Az.2v6@novell.co.uk> msohnius@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius) writes:

>Neil Dunbar (neil@riscot.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>
>: Of course, using Linux instead of SCO, Unixware et al, removes the
>: uncertainty of what happens if SCO, Novell and Sun were all to go
>: belly up .... ;-)
>
>To lay some real flame-bait:  and what if the opposite happens, and all the
>people who support/write Linux code suddenly found themselves real-world
>full-time jobs?

Many of them already have full-time jobs. But full-time job doesn't
mean 24 hours per day, you know? :-) Or is this different at Novell?

Dan
--
Dan Pop 
CERN, CN Division
Email: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

------------------------------

From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.hp.apps,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps,comp.unix.unixware
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: 16 Aug 1994 18:49:31 GMT

I'm curious - what does this discussion have to do with most of the
groups on the Newsgroups line?  I keep peeking in this thread expecting
to find something relevant to the comp.sys.hp.*, but if there's been
anything I've missed it.

Edit your newsgroups line, folks!  As far as I can tell, the only
relevant groups out of that whole bunch are comp.os.linux.misc and
comp.unix.unixware.  (Or if I'm out to lunch, please email me and tell
me why.)

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself

------------------------------

From: jrimmer@netcom.com (Jason Rimmer)
Subject: Re: Where did "Yggdrasil" come from?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 18:44:42 GMT

        I don't know from with Mythos it originates, but Yggdrasil is a 
huge tree (plant) that holds the Earth and the heavens together.  Just 
imagine huge tree with it's branches wrapped around everything and you 
get the idea.
        If you're really interested, I have a paper at home (I'm currently
at work) that I can excerpt from...

Kenneth Brody (kenbrody@cloud9.net) wrote:
: Subject says it all.  Does anybody know where the name "Yggdrasil" comes
: from?
-- 
jrimmer@netcom.com
Eclectic Technologies

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my
 grandfather, not screaming in terror like his
 passengers."
        -Anonymous(?)


------------------------------

From: Stephen@zmemw16.demon.co.uk (Stephen Parkinson)
Subject: Trust HG3311 Handscanner
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 19:36:46 +0000

Hi,
Has anyone experience of a linux box with this
scanner at its default address of either 2abh
or 36bh depending how you read the switches :)

system 486dx40(intel going slow) 10Mb, IDE &
1542C scsi

Interface card is marked up as GI 1904A Rev B

Stephen Parkinson

------------------------------


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