Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #618
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Tue, 16 Aug 94 14:13:12 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #618, Volume #2                Tue, 16 Aug 94 14:13:12 EDT

Contents:
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Olli Vinberg)
  Re: Linux in Open Computing mag (Doctor Padds)
  Re: term + gopher/archie/mosaic/news/mail (Patrick Reijnen)
  Re: Will HP 35480 DAT Tape Drive work under linux? (Daniel Etter)
  Interest in a Linux dist. for term users? (Alberto Alonso (Shisho or Albund))
  Re: tar compat on linux (Philippe Steindl)
  Re: FAX software available? (Lyn R. Kennedy)
  Re: Suggest:SCSI Tape File System (Matthias Urlichs)
  Re: WD Caviar w/Linux
  Re: WANTED: Supplier of PC clone for Linux.... (Steve Wicke)
  Re: source for NE2100/AT1500 clones? (Phil Hughes)
  Re: Where did "Yggdrasil" come from? (Wayne Stidolph)
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Dave Sill)
  Re: Slackware 2.0 CD-ROM (Phil Hughes)
  Re: Trying again--What Is iBCS?!? (Phil Hughes)
  (linux != HP9.0 UX ? great : help) (Per Henning Isaksen)
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Dave Sill)
  Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????) (Seth J. Morabito)
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Paul M Sargent)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: vinberg@cc.Helsinki.FI (Olli Vinberg)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 16 Aug 1994 17:37:29 +0300
Reply-To: Olli Vinberg <vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi>

In article <NILS.94Aug15171340@wildcat.dartmouth.edu>,
Nils Nieuwejaar <nils@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>It doesn't have to be Linux-specific to be useful.  How many XFree86
>issues actually are linux-specific?  The implementation issues may be,
>but dot clocks, etc are video card/monitor specific - not which unix
>you are runnning.

Not everyone has time to follow zillion different newsgroups.

>Think about that for a second.  If it would be appropriate for the
>posts in question to be crossposted to an existing group, then that
>implies that there is already someplace for that discussion to take
>place.  If there is already someplace for the discussion to take
>place, why do we need a new group?

Ah.. I have a different view on this one.. It is possible to have
discussion on basically the same things on different forums, by
different people and different viewpoints.

Why do you think there are some 5k newsgroups?

>That's exactly what they shouldn't be used for.  There are existing
>groups to discuss generic hardware issues.  Any new groups should be
>used to discuss the interaction (for lack of a better word) of linux
>and the hardware.  Which DIP switch I flip to prevent my USR modem
>from answering the phone has nothing whatsoever to do with linux.  So,
>that question should be asked in c.s.i.p.comm.

the pc-hardware groups have too high a volume to be of any help to
someone who only needs an answer to a simple question. It might be good
to have a hardware-group under the linux-hierarchy, so everything
wouldn't get lost in the flood.


-- 
=======================================================================
Olli Vinberg                \  Our OS who art in CPU, UNIX be thy name.
vinberg@cc.helsinki.fi        \  Thy programs run, thy syscalls done,
http://www.helsinki.fi/~vinberg \  in kernel as it is in user!

------------------------------

From: padds@scorpion.bsa.co.uk (Doctor Padds)
Subject: Re: Linux in Open Computing mag
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 12:20:13 GMT

Bill McCarthy (bmccarth@gulfaero.com) wrote:
: Hiya;

: FWIW dept: Open Computing magazine, Sept 1994, pp.83-87, has an article about
: linux titled "Cheap & Uneasy: BSD/386 and Linux". Pretty interesting.



I was quite surprised by the article and how genuinly balanced it was.  I was very impressed by their comments on both systems, which we have here though Linux has over-taken BSD.

-Padds

-- 

         Doctor Padds actually uses the name : Jonathan O'Connor
                    M.D. of B.S.A. Ltd CD Developers.
              padds@bsa.co.uk & padds@cix.compulink.co.uk

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: patrickr@cs.kun.nl (Patrick Reijnen)
Subject: Re: term + gopher/archie/mosaic/news/mail
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 14:43:06 GMT

In <32pegr$p3k@panix.com> bergman@panix.com (Mark Bergman) writes:

>I'm interested in using term over a 14.4 dial up and wondering if it is
>possible to run local-to-linux archie/gopher/mosaic/news and mail
>clients.

Yes all of this is possible.

>Is this possible, and what advantages would it give me?
Getting files directly to your local machine instaed to remote after which you have to upload. Receiving and sending mail directly from your own machine.

>The only gain that I see is in using mosaic [allowing me to view graphics
>images and possibly hear sound samples] instead on character-only lynx.
>Is this correct? Is it feasible?

I will suggest you to get a term package and read the Term-HOWTO. This HOWTO is also available on http://sunsite.unc.edu/mdw/linux.html. A new version will be available soon :-).

>----
>Mark Bergman    Biker, IATSE #1 Stagehand, (former) Unix user support grunt
>718-855-9148   bergman@panix.com       {cmcl2,uunet}!panix!bergman
>I want a newsgroup with a infinite S/N ratio! Now taking CFV on:

>rec.motorcycles.stagehands.pet-bird-owners.pinballers.ex-unix-supporters
>       3 So Far


Patrick REijnen

--
************************* Patrick Reijnen *************************
* Department of Computer Science, Catholic University of Nijmegen * 
* Email:  patrickr@{sci,cs}.kun.nl                                *
* WWW:    http://{atlas,zeus}.cs.kun.nl:4000/homepage.html        *

------------------------------

From: daniel@etter.uu.ch (Daniel Etter)
Subject: Re: Will HP 35480 DAT Tape Drive work under linux?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 09:19:26 GMT

giancola@chaco.cs.unm.edu (Anthony Giancola) writes:

>I am looking at backup devices and I can find no mention of the
>HP 35480 DAT drive as working under linux. This is a SCSI-2 2G byte
>tape drive.  Does anyone have any experience with this drive?

I have a HP C1522A Jetstore 2000 DAT. It works fine under linux. I also
tested a new HP 16G DAT it worked but I didn't know where the harware-
compression is supported under linux.
-- 
================================================================================
Daniel Etter                        | Voice:                  (41) (1) 844 58 25
Ringstrasse 2                       | Fax + Linux (obastrlx): (41) (1) 884 62 52
CH-8107 Buchs ZH                    | E-Mail:                 daniel@etter.uu.ch

------------------------------

From: a_alonso@iastate.edu (Alberto Alonso (Shisho or Albund))
Subject: Interest in a Linux dist. for term users?
Date: 16 Aug 94 15:34:19 GMT

HI everybody,

I was wondering if anybody had any interest in a Linux distribution
ready for term users. The way I would do it is changing the commands
like telnet and ftp by termtelnet and ncftp. I would change the links
and leave the originals in a different directory structure. The
distribution would be based in the last slackware dist. that I get my
hands on.

If there is a big interest I'll try to make CD's and disk distributions.
I'll try to upload it to some ftp sites.

Please any coments sugestions or anything you want to tell me, direct
them to a_alonso@iastate.edu or to comp.os.linux.misc

Alberto

-- 
Alberto Alonso                   
e-maiL: a_alonso@iastate.edu    Phone: never heard of it
WWW: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~a_alonso/homepage.html
Electrical Engineering.         (At least trying to be one) 

===============================================================================
He that has no fools, knaves nor beggars in his family was begot by a flash of
lightning. (Thomas Fuller)
===============================================================================
For PGP signature finger a_alonso@iastate.edu

------------------------------

From: psteindl@il.us.swissbank.com (Philippe Steindl)
Subject: Re: tar compat on linux
Date: 16 Aug 1994 14:10:50 GMT
Reply-To: ilg@imp.ch

Larry Blanchard writes
> Brian Quandt (quandt@cs.umr.edu) wrote:
> 
> : I've been having problems with tar accross multiple platforms.
> 
> : Is linux tar fully compliant?  Can I expect any problems between
> : these systmes: linux sun hp, SGI? 
> 
> I've had no problems with tar files from SCO (Unix and Xenix), Coherent,
> and Interactive.  No experience with those on your list, but would
> suspect the incompatibilities are on their end if they don't work. I'm
> running Linux 0.99pl15 from Slackware.

Rere,

and I had no problems with suns and SGI's :-)

just for the records

Philippe Steindl


--
====================+===================================================
Philippe Steindl    |                  Any opinions expressed are my own
E-mail: ilg@imp.ch  |                  and not necessarily those of the 
                    |                  Swiss Bank Corporation.
====================+===================================================

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
From: lrk@netcom.com (Lyn R. Kennedy)
Subject: Re: FAX software available?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 15:23:56 GMT

In article <32ohit$9qa@news.panix.com>, Wayne Berke <berke@panix.com> wrote:
>I am considering a PD UNIX and one of the factors in my choice will be
>what kind of FAX software (not necessarily free) there will be available.
>
>A quick search of the FAQs:
>
>       *BSD does not mention anything.

Flexfax is under 'ports' on FreeBSD sites.

It's 2.2 which won't handle some Class2 modem chips. (ROCKWELL 144DP for
one)

Flexfax 2.3beta is on sgi.com and has some fixes. It suposedly has
config files for BSD versions.

In either case, you need bash, gmake, ghostscript, and
GNU sed and expr.

Flexfax is also the most annoying package I've tried to install. The
documentation is pretty well hidden and often useless.

--  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
| 73,            internet     | lrk@k5qwb.lonestar.org                  |
| Lyn Kennedy                 | lrk@wb5nrn.cirr.com                     |
|                pony express = P.O. Box 5133, Ovilla, TX, USA 75154    |
---Livin' on an information dirt road a few miles off the superhighway---

------------------------------

From: urlichs@smurf.noris.de (Matthias Urlichs)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development
Subject: Re: Suggest:SCSI Tape File System
Date: 16 Aug 1994 17:45:35 +0200

[ THERE IS NO SUCH NEWSGROUP AS COMP.OS.LINUX. ]

In comp.os.linux.development, article <32nmqi$dtm@styx.uwa.edu.au>,
  cjcason@yarrow.wt.uwa.edu.au (Christopher Cason) writes:
> Chris Burke (clb@prism.mindware.brisnet.org.au) wrote:
> : I have been pondering a bit and have worked out a reasonable way to allow
> : a mountable file system for high speed tapes. 
> 
> I think this is an excellent idea. Anyone else have any comments ???
> 
Yes.

Use an userfs (or NFS, if you must...) program to access the tape and to
cache the data. This avoids much kernel hacking, debugging is a lot easier,
and the speed is dominated by the tape anyway.

In fact, you could start with the existing userfs program which accesses
tar and/or tar.gz files; add a cache for files and directories; add a cache
for gzip state so you don't have to start at the beginning for every file
... that sort of thing.

-- 
Judgment Day is not a thing that can be delayed overlong.
                                        -- Roger Zelazny
-- 
Matthias Urlichs        \ XLink-POP N|rnberg  | EMail: urlichs@smurf.noris.de
Schleiermacherstra_e 12  \  Unix+Linux+Mac    | Phone: ...please use email.
90491 N|rnberg (Germany)  \   Consulting+Networking+Programming+etc'ing     42

Click <A HREF="http://smurf.noris.de/~urlichs/finger">here</A>.

------------------------------

From: elhaag@wodka.stud.fh-heilbronn.de ()
Subject: Re: WD Caviar w/Linux
Date: 16 Aug 1994 16:51:10 GMT

In article <1994Aug12.190534.26441@pvi.com>, chrisj@pvi.com (Christopher Michael Joslyn) writes:
|> In article <1994Aug11.211221.25366@hal.depaul.edu>,
|> Mark Juric <mjuric@fred.cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
|> >Hi all,
|> >  After a call to the WD guys (who just whined and said that everybody else's
|> >drives suck and if you have problems it's the other guy's fault) I decided to
|> >switch my Maxtor 212 to the slave and my WD 540 to the master.  Sort of a pain
|> >because the WD was all Linux and I use DOS's startup menu to decide what I was
|> >going to boot.
|> >  But... all works well now.  No HD controller errors or anything.  So the
|> >moral of this story?  WD hard drives *and* their support people are big babies.
|> 
|> As I understand it now after some research and other postings is that
|> the Western Digital drive needs to be the master drive if the current
|> master is older than some date (don't know what it is).  The reasoning
|> being that the Western Digital drive uses the new enhanced IDE interface
|> which does away with the 520MB limit; you can have up to 8 GB IDE drive
|> with this interface.  The errors you were seeing were probably from the
|> master drive (the older one) complaining about the size of the slave
|> drive (the WD drive one).  So it really isn't the drive being a "big
|> baby" (I'm not going to touch the one about WD's support people), it is
|> that the older drive is ignorant about the extended interface.  Even
|> this being the case, you can't beat $350 for 1,000,000 * 540 bytes (yes,
|> their definition of MB is 1,000,000 bytes instead of the proper
|> 2^20 or 1,048,576 bytes definition) which comes out to be ~515 real MBs
|> or about 68 cents a meg.  The WD drives are even a better deal than
|> that.
|> 
|> 
|>  - Chris
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> ----  Purgamentum Init, Exit Purgamentum  ------------------------------------
|> Christopher M. Joslyn  | Visual Numerics, Inc.   |   "A la fin de l'envoi,
|> +1 (303) 581-3269      | 6230 Lookout Road       |      je touche!"
|> chrisj@boulder.vni.com | Boulder, CO 80301       |  My opinions are mine!

-- 
VERY strange.
I use a Conner 170 meg HD (! CONNER! It normally NEVER works with other a second
harddisk installed) and a Western Digital Caviar 540 Meg HD.
Conner is Master, WD is slave.

I had absolutely no problems to install them.

Very strange, isn't it?
Elmar

===========================================
Elmar Haag      Medical Informatics at Fachhochschule Heilbronn, Germany
        
EMail:          elhaag@fh-heilbronn.de
                (If mail is sent back to you, try elhaag@sun1.rz.fh-heilbronn.de)
Phone/Fax:      +49-7131-570499
BTX/DxJ:        07131-570944-001

*** God is REAL,  as long as not declared as INTEGER ***        

------------------------------

From: spire@teleport.com (Steve Wicke)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,biz.comp.hardware,biz.comp.services,biz.comp.software,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
Subject: Re: WANTED: Supplier of PC clone for Linux....
Date: 16 Aug 1994 09:41:39 -0700


Hello,
        It is nice to see more people getting into the Linux arena. We at 
Spire Technologies are a vendor for Linux. We sell custom configured, 
pre-installed, warrantied systems. If this interests please contact us.

                                        Joshua Drake
                                        Spire Technologies

-- 
                Spire Technologies 1985 SW 6th Ave.
                Portland Or
                Phone (503)222-3086
        

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.networking,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
From: fyl@eskimo.com (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Re: source for NE2100/AT1500 clones?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 15:20:45 GMT

the stupid one (warren@wam.umd.edu) wrote:

:       I've been looking for these for a while now, and the only place
: I've found 'em wants $65(US)@, +shipping,etc.  (National or Nationwide
: something or other, I don't remember precisely, they advertise in Comp.
: Shopper.)  Any better deals, horror stories, glowing praise, whatever?
: Cards known to work with Linux a plus.

Try Corporate Systems Center in Sunnyvale, CA.  (408-734-DISK if I
remember right -- not near the info).  They had these cards for $49 or
10@$29/each.  Also have decent deals on hard disks.

Tell them Linux Journal sent you.  We are attempting to convince them that
advertising in Linux Journal would be a good idea as us Linux people buy
hardware.

--
Phil Hughes, Publisher, Linux Journal (206) 527-3385
usually phil@fylz.com, sometimes fyl@eskimo.com

------------------------------

From: stidolph@leland.Stanford.EDU (Wayne Stidolph)
Subject: Re: Where did "Yggdrasil" come from?
Date: 16 Aug 1994 16:14:42 GMT
Reply-To: stidolph@leland.stanford.edu

In article <RMZ.94Aug16141116@solva.ifi.uio.no>,
Bjxrn Remseth <rmz@ifi.uio.no> wrote:
>
>> I think it's from some "norse"???  mythology.
>
>Right.  Yggdrasil is a tree with some special purpose.
>Unfortunately I don't remember what that purpose is.
>
>

"the ash tree which binds earth, heaven and hell"
    - The American College Encyclopedic Dictionary, 1952
 "the great ash tree that holds together earth, heaven and hell
          by its roots and branches"
        - The American Heritage College Dictionary, 3rd Ed

Wayne
-- 
Wayne.Stidolph@mtv.gtegsc.com or stidolph@leland.stanford.edu 
What I say is from me only. I try to be accurate, but I make mistakes: sorrrry.

------------------------------

From: de5@de5.CTD.ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 16 Aug 1994 16:24:36 GMT

In article <1994Aug12.061748.32592@truffula.sj.ca.us>, cls@truffula.sj.ca.us (Cameron L. Spitzer) writes:
>
>I think it would be more constructive to invade comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.*
>with on-topic (hardware) articles.

I tried that--that's what led me to this suggestion.

>There's nothing "DOS"-specific about
>those groups, and people often install an assortment (Linux + OS/2 etc.)
>on one drive or one box.

The comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware groups aren't *intended* to be DOS-specific,
but in practice, they're so DOS-dominated that they're not at all
well-suited to such "fringe" PC operating systems as Linux and other
UNIXes.

>Like the OS/2 folks, we *use* our memory
>subsystems "harder" than the MS_DOS-only users do, and reveal faults
>they never see.

So if you post there saying "Does Foo work?", you're likely to get false
positive results unless the 1 in 1000 readers that happens to run Linux
responds.  Whereas in a Linux-specific group, you *know* the respones will
be applicable (modulo configuration differences, of course).

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)
Martin Marietta Energy Systems, Workstation Support
URL http://www.dec.com/pub/DEC/DECinfo/html/dsill.html

------------------------------

From: fyl@eskimo.com (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Re: Slackware 2.0 CD-ROM
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 15:17:42 GMT

Joel Scotkin (jscotkin@jpmorgan.com) wrote:
: In article <32fpap$9b9@telerama.lm.com>,
: John W. Podlogar <podlogar@telerama.lm.com> wrote:
: >'m looking to purchase the Slackware 2.0 CD-ROM from somebody. I recall
: >that there was a post awhile back announcing this. Does anybody have any
: >info on who I can order this from? Thanks for any help...-John Podlogar

: Morse Telecom (800) 60-MORSE sells the Slackware Pro 2.0 CD.

: I believe that the Morse people worked with the Slackware creators
: to put this CD together, with features like being able to run directly
: off of the CD, and a Windows installation program.  

There are currently two CD distributions that include Slackware 2.0.  They
are Morse and InfoMagic (800-800-6613). Both claim to be able to be run
directly off the CD.

The InfoMagic CD (actually a 2-CD set for $20) also includes other
distributions plus snapshops of the tsx-11 and sunsite Linux archives aand
prep.ai.mit.edu (GNU) archive.

I am not sure about the Windows installation program but the previous
Morse CD had what was called a Windows install program that was really
just a program to write the boot disk.  It really has nothing to do with
the actual installation.  The Slackware distribution is the same one as is
available on the net.

Morse says "support included", InfoMagic offers support in whatever way
they can.  I don't have experience with either company as far as their
support.

The Morse distribution also includes version 2.1 of Matt Welsh's Linux
Installation and Getting Started.  Linux Journal offers verson 2.1.1 for
$12.95 and I believe InfoMagic is also selling it.



--
Phil Hughes, Publisher, Linux Journal (206) 527-3385
usually phil@fylz.com, sometimes fyl@eskimo.com

------------------------------

From: fyl@eskimo.com (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Re: Trying again--What Is iBCS?!?
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 15:23:49 GMT

gvacano@eagle.wesleyan.edu wrote:
: Well, I guess I'll try again, and hope for a reply this time.

: Please, what is iBCS? If it is a software package, what's the package called
: and how can I obtain it?

It is a package to run programs compiled for Intel-based Unices that
comply with the iBCS2 standard (like SCO Unix, Unixware, SVR4, ...)
It is included in the Slackware 2.0 distribution (ftp.cdrom.com, mirrors
or either the InfoMagic or Morse CDs) or can be added to your system.
The code is on all the standard archive sites (such as tsx-11.mit.edu and
sunsite.unc.edu)

--
Phil Hughes, Publisher, Linux Journal (206) 527-3385
usually phil@fylz.com, sometimes fyl@eskimo.com

------------------------------

From: phi@bh.marintek.sintef.no (Per Henning Isaksen)
Subject: (linux != HP9.0 UX ? great : help)
Date: 16 Aug 1994 16:41:35 GMT

I am about to enter into a discussion with our SysAdm on
wether to use MSDOS or linux on a PC. The PC's sole
function is to control some (yet) unspecified I/O-
card that have 1 analog output and ~10 digital I/O
that is only used as handshake signals for the analog
signal. Output rate is 150 analog values/s. We presume
that we must write a device driver for said card. All
lab machines are various HP types.

I suspect that my SysAdm attitude is "Yech, yet another
unix!" and demand that we use DOS.

Now, here is my first question: 
Is there any SysAdm out there that knows both HP9.0 UX 
and linux - and is willing to comment on their 
differences/similarities?

Now, here is my last question:
Is there anyone out there that has device driver experience
on both systems - and wants to comment on wich system would
be the easiest to write device drivers on?

All comment will be appreciated,
pH

Official e-mail address: PerHenning.Isaksen@marintek.sintef.no
(address in header works too)

------------------------------

From: de5@de5.CTD.ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 16 Aug 1994 16:38:39 GMT

In article <NILS.94Aug15171340@wildcat.dartmouth.edu>, nils@cs.dartmouth.edu (Nils Nieuwejaar) writes:
>de5@de5.CTD.ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:
>
>   Cool, I didn't know about that one.  Unfortunately the name is terribly
>   misleading--that's why I never discovered it.  But c.w.x.i386unix isn't
>   Linux-specific, and, IMO, Linux is big enough to warrant it's own video
>   hardware group.
>
>It doesn't have to be Linux-specific to be useful.

Agreed.  It's useful--it's just hard to find and not even
XFree86-specific.  I'm sure i386unix made sense when it was created, but
it's about the last place I'd look for information about X under Linux
unless I knew otherwise.

>   >       comp.os.linux.hardware.sound        (*)
>   >      More of the same, for PC sound cards mostly.
>   >       comp.os.linux.hardware.cd-rom
>   >      You get the idea.
>   >       comp.os.linux.hardware.misc
>   >      Other peripherals like printers, mice, tape drives, etc.
>   >
>   >These three groups would probably be full of articles crossposted to
>   >c.o.l.h. and the corresponding c.s.ibm.pc.hardware groups.
>
>   I don't see any problem with xposts to c.s.ibm.pc.hardware groups
>
>Think about that for a second.  If it would be appropriate for the
>posts in question to be crossposted to an existing group, then that
>implies that there is already someplace for that discussion to take
>place.

No, it implies there's *more*than*one*place for *a*particular*
*discussion* to take place--although the "discussion" may simply be a
request for information rather than a dialogue.

>If there is already someplace for the discussion to take
>place, why do we need a new group?

Because there are different levels of appropriateness.  It'd be
perfectly appropriate to post a question about Linux and Mach64 cards to
c.s.i.p.h.video--but if there was a c.o.l.h.video group, it'd be *more*
appropriate to post it there--and more likely to turn up the necessary
info.

>   I don't know why people would xpost to comp.os.linux.help with
>   a more targetted group available, though.
>
>I don't know why either, but you can bet they would.

I'm sure someone would, but I think most wouldn't, and if *any* didn't,
the traffic on comp.os.linux.help would decrease.  A good thing, no?

>   >They would become the default groups for
>   >all hardware questions by people who happen to use linux, and they
>   >would be filled with 'How do I set the DIP switches?' and 'Which is
>   >the fastest tape drive?'.
>
>   Um, that's exactly what I'd expect them to be used for.  What did you have
>   in mind?
>
>That's exactly what they shouldn't be used for.  There are existing
>groups to discuss generic hardware issues.  Any new groups should be
>used to discuss the interaction (for lack of a better word) of linux
>and the hardware.  Which DIP switch I flip to prevent my USR modem
>from answering the phone has nothing whatsoever to do with linux.  So,
>that question should be asked in c.s.i.p.comm.

*You* know that, and *I* know that, but does the novice/intermediate
Linux user know that?  Probably not, so they'll post to
comp.os.linux.help.  If there was a .hardware.misc group, they'd
probably post there instead (no guarantees, of course).  And sometimes
the answer *will* be Linux-specific.  Requiring the user to know that
much about the problem before he can figure out where to ask the
question seems unfair and unlikely to happen, at best.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)
Martin Marietta Energy Systems, Workstation Support
URL http://www.dec.com/pub/DEC/DECinfo/html/dsill.html

------------------------------

From: sethm@pnet1.pnet.com (Seth J. Morabito)
Subject: Re: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????)
Date: 16 Aug 1994 12:54:32 -0400

Van Dao Mai (mai@wumpus.cc.uow.edu.au) wrote:
: bogdan@crl.com (Bogdan Urma) writes:

: >     I've looked around also, and apparently these are the only 2 companies
: >which have Motif for Linux. I finally dished out the $149 and bought the
: >just released SWiM Motif 1.2.4 for Linux. The price may seem high in the 
: >Linux community, where users are used to getting software for free, but in
: >reality it's very little for such a fine product.
: <<< is there any need for Motif? Is it much better than FVWM windows
: manager? I run FVWM and love it for its speed. A bit of time spent in
: customisation makes it perfect. Unless there are special software in Motif
: that makes the package worth while I would not go for it.

The reason you would pay $149 for the Motif distribution is not simply
to get the motif window manager, but to get the motif libraries and
includes and widgets that make up the motif API.  I use FVWM myself, and 
would probably continue to use it even if I did get the SWiM Motif package,
but if you want to write applications using Motif widgets (for example,
Mosaic -- the menus, slide bars, and dialogue boxes are all motif widgets)
you need the Motif libraries and include files.  THAT's what the money
is for.  And well worth it IMHO.  Unless you yourself are planning on
doing any developing or compiling of apps written with Motif, then you
probably don't want the Motif package.

: Cheers,
: Van Dao
: Wollongong University

-Seth 
--
Seth J. Morabito  (sjm1@cornell.edu  sethm@pnet.com)
Cornell University Flavoured Leech Processing Center
"Mmmmm... them's DAMN fine leeches!"
            -- Another satisfied customer

------------------------------

From: Paul M Sargent <ee92pms@brunel.ac.uk>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 15:08:17 BST


> I've found it pretty hard to find answers to the kind of questions I have,
> which are mostly about hardware compatibility.  Do they belong in
> comp.os.linux.help?  How about comp.os.linux.misc?  For that matter,
> exactly what is appropriate for these two groups?

Very good question, Anybody care to clarify?
[snip stuff about hardware hierarchy]
Think we're better off cutting down the amount of repeated material on the 
current groups and defining what they are all for a bit better.
> 
> And the c.o.l.help and c.o.l.misc groups are just too busy to keep up
> with.

That is certainly true, and certainly with a lot of FAQ's on XFree86 and such 
things. Maybe a weekly posting of FAQ's is in order. I havn't noticed many 
since I've been online, but then again there are an awful lot of them to post.

Paul
 


------------------------------


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