Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #601
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sat, 13 Aug 94 07:13:19 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #601, Volume #2                Sat, 13 Aug 94 07:13:19 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Usefulness of BSD/Linux Source Knowledge (was BSD vs. LINUX) (Peter Berger)
  What is it? (was Re: iBCS EMULATOR???) (gvacano@eagle.wesleyan.edu)
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Sven Goldt)
  Re: CD-ROM vs Tape Distribution (was Re: Coherent & Linux  ...) (Mike Ovington)
  Seyon: howto CR --> NL for incoming (Paul Stoffregen)
  Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion) (Number 6)
  *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07) (Ian Jackson)
  No cd-rom in Slack2! (Ron  Olson)
  Linux @ 80x50? (James T. Fung)
  Re: starting X automatically on installing linux distribution (Byron A Jeff)
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (David Barr)
  Re: ! Can I benchmark on your Pentium ?!? (Heiko Herold)
  Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.* (Heiko Herold)
  Re: [BUG] in cp (copy) on DOS fs. (Gary Houston)
  Re: [BUG] in cp (copy) on DOS fs. (Andrew R. Tefft)
  Re: [BUG] in cp (copy) on DOS fs. (Andrew R. Tefft)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Peter Berger <peterb@telerama.lm.com>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: Usefulness of BSD/Linux Source Knowledge (was BSD vs. LINUX)
Date: 12 Aug 1994 13:58:40 -0400

In article <9408081643.04@rmkhome.com>, Rick Kelly <rmk@rmkhome.com> wrote:
>Peter G. Berger (peterb@telerama.lm.com) wrote:
>: In article <9408040155.38@rmkhome.com>, Rick Kelly <rmk@rmkhome.com> wrote:
>: >Well, if AT&T dies, the USENET dies, as they own all the leased lines
>: >in the US.
>
>: No, they don't.
>: Not even *close*.
>
>The telephone infrastructure of the US is based primarily on the AT&T
>long distance trunk lines.  MCI, Sprint, etc lease the use of these lines
>from AT&T.

I imagine that must be disturbing news to WilTel, whom Sprint in fact
leases most of their data lines from.

Addressing your original point:  if AT&T dies, the USENET will not die. 
And AT&T does not own all the leased lines in the US.  They don't even own
*almost* all of the leased lines in the US.

Got it?


-- 
........................................................................
  Peter G. Berger, Esq.  Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh
Internet: peterb@telerama.lm.com Phone: 412/481-3505 Fax: 412/481-8568
    http://www.lm.com/ gopher://gopher.lm.com/ ftp://ftp.lm.com/

------------------------------

Subject: What is it? (was Re: iBCS EMULATOR???)
From: gvacano@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 12 Aug 94 14:08:08 EDT

Hello--

> Why is the iBCS package refered to as an emulator... it adds 
> binary compatability not emulating per se.
> 
> I have tried it and it works great for everything that I had

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is iBCS? It sounds interesting.

Thanks,
Guido Vacano
Wesleyan University

------------------------------

From: goldt@math.tu-berlin.de (Sven Goldt)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 12 Aug 1994 00:17:42 GMT

Drew Eckhardt (drew@frisbee.cs.Colorado.EDU) wrote:

: Judging by the amount of hardware traffic, I don't think that 
: at this point a whole set of hardware groups is needed, and 
: suggest that starting with a single hardware subgroup be tried
: for this reason.

I support that.A new linux group for hardware specifics which is
in the end a comp.os.linux.drivers newsgroup.
It would help to lower traffic in comp.os.linux.development.

Just my 2 cents.
Sven

--
*****************************************************************************
*    # THE MOST IMPORTANT FINANCIAL QUESTION IS:  Where is the money ? #    *
*****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.coherent
From: kmo@sae.com (Mike Ovington)
Subject: Re: CD-ROM vs Tape Distribution (was Re: Coherent & Linux  ...)
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 17:51:18 GMT

In article <1994Aug11.042726.16697@ksmith.com>, keith@ksmith.com (Keith Smith) writes:
-Everything in *IX is so _big_, shit _EVERYTHING_ is so big these days I
-wouldn't be without a tape drive on 99% of the boxes.  Backing up to
-tape across a network generally sucks in terms of performance, though it
-can be done fairly easily.  Problem is with say 30 machines on a network
-that all have 1G hard drives, you have to back up 30G a day.  That means
-your network tape drive has got to maintain 20MB/min SUSTAINED thruput
-just to back it all up.  Gee,  what is a sustainable ethernet bandwidth?
-

If you have never tried (or heard of) incremental backups, you should
look into them. You only have to back up what was changed since the
last complete backup. You can then easily backup your 30 machine network
on a single networked dat drive at 2 am when no one will notice.
This can save you (or your customers) the price of 29 tape drives.
-- 
                                ____
  Michael Ovington              \  /    Template Software    voice: 703-318-1000
  Michael.Ovington@template.com  \/                          fax:   703-318-7378

------------------------------

From: paul@holmes.ece.orst.edu (Paul Stoffregen)
Subject: Seyon: howto CR --> NL for incoming
Date: 13 Aug 1994 09:54:43 GMT

I'm trying to get Seyon to translate _incoming_ carriage
return (13) into a newline, so text from a system which
terminates its lines with only a carriage return will
display properly, instead of just on one line.

I've read through the seyon man page and older FAQ file,
played with my .Xdefaults, tried command line parameters,
and even tried to get xterm to do it, but still nothing.

I have some 8051 microcontroller boards which I've
built and used msdos for development, using pc-write
for editing (vi for dos won't handle large files),
the old free procomm, and an assembler.  Until recently,
it looked like I'd be stuck with msdos forever, due to the
assembler.

Well, I got C code for an assembler and it runs under
Linux nicely.  Believe it or not, the only glitch is
that my boards send only a CR at the end of each line.
(I have lots and lots of code with this hard-coded in,
so it'd be very difficult to fix them all)  Seyon
has options for NL to CR, CR/LF, etc, but they only
seem to affect the outgoing data.  Text from my
boards always ends up one one line, no matter which
buttons I press (yes, I tried the ones in the 
SET-NEWLINE menu as well as defining the resource in
my .Xdefaults file... these only seem to affect
outgoing data)  I do receive what looks like the
right text, but it all ends up on one line!
(the ancient procomm has menu options for both
imcoming and outgoing cr/lf translation, btw)

I have Slackware 2.0, kernel 1.1.39, and Seyon 2.1 rev 4b
which says 03/13/94 19:25:23 when it starts up.  The
Seyon binary is the one that came with Slackware 2.0.
My .seyon directory has the phonelist, protocols, and
startup that came with slackware somewhere in the
/usr/doc/seyon directory (I restored them back to the
defaults after trying dozens of things).  The UART
is a 16550A on /dev/ttyS1.

Please Please Please let me know what I've missed.
It seems like there's got to be a way to set this,
and I have read the man page twice now as well
as the whole FAQ once, with no luck.

Once this last problem is worked out, I'll be saved
from the clutches of msdos, and when doom for linux
appears, I might never have to reboot again!

Thanks in advance, Paul  (paul@ece.orst.edu)

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.coherent
From: nathan@seldon.foundation.tricon.com (Number 6)
Subject: Re: Coherent & Linux (Was : A Truly Unbiased Opinion)
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 1994 05:46:11 GMT

In article <1994Aug5.165415.22366@nma.mnet.uswest.com> lspiers@nma.mnet.uswest.com (Lane Spiers) writes:
>In article <Cu1zEz.K2t@hawnews.watson.ibm.com>, dylan@sycamore.aix.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com () writes:
>|> Rick Kelly (rmk@rmkhome.com) wrote:
>|> 
>|> : 1. Find a CDROM drive.
>|> 
>|> : 2. Shutdown the running UNIX system after throwing the users off.
>|> 
>|> You have to _shut down_ your machine to put a SCSI device on it?
>|> Tell me the vendor name so I can avoid it at all costs! If I need to
>|> get a CDROM on our machine, I just plug it onto the external SCSI
>|> device connector, put a terminator on it, and run the config manager,
>|> all of which takes less than 30 seconds.
>
>Our policy at work (using Sun IPX's) is that ANY time we connect/disconnect
>a peripheral device (SCSI, serial, keyboard, etc), we shutdown and power
>off the workstation.  It's worth the added few minutes to protect a 
>$13,000 machine.  I follow the same advice on my PC's at home...
> 
>

Last time I hotplugged a SCSI device, I hosed my superblock.  It was
NOT fun.  I had been doing it for quite some time with no problems
(on several RS/6000's using SCSI1 adapters) and when I tried it the
time I blew things up, it was on my brand new SCSI2 adapter in one of
the RS/6000s.  It wasn't a happy camper.  Thought I'd blown up the
disk, but I did have to boot from floppy and recover things (and this
is on a journalled filesystem).

On a $28,000 machine, yes, it IS worth it to power down.  Even on my
own horrendously slow 486, it's worth it to me to power down!
(Anyway, any Unix on a PC I've ever come across doesn't really like to
have the keyboard yanked or a SCSI device yanked while it's running.
On the RS/6000 one can power down a SCSI device and still have a
functional system, same on my PC, as long as it isn't /, /tmp, /usr or
/home!)  But don't EVER hotplug!




***********************************************************************
Nathan D. Lane, VP Triicon Systems. Lompoc, CA   
NaN != 6, 6 == 1.  I am not a number, I am a free list!
I'm a programmer  my computers are more valuable than my cars.

------------------------------

From: ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Jackson)
Subject: *** PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING *** (misc-2.07)
Date: 13 Aug 1994 04:03:16 -0600

Please do not post questions to comp.os.linux.misc - read on for details of
which groups you should read and post to.

Please do not crosspost anything between different groups of the comp.os.linux
hierarchy.  See Matt Welsh's introduction to the hierarchy, posted weekly.

If you have a question about Linux you should get and read the Linux Frequently
Asked Questions with Answers list from sunsite.unc.edu, in /pub/Linux/docs, or
from another Linux FTP site.  It is also posted periodically to c.o.l.announce.

In particular, read the question `You still haven't answered my question!'
The FAQ will refer you to the Linux HOWTOs (more detailed descriptions of
particular topics) found in the HOWTO directory in the same place.

Then you should consider posting to comp.os.linux.help - not
comp.os.linux.misc.

Note that X Windows related questions should go to comp.windows.x.i386unix, and
that non-Linux-specific Unix questions should go to comp.unix.questions.
Please read the FAQs for these groups before posting - look on rtfm.mit.edu in
/pub/usenet/news.answers/Intel-Unix-X-faq and .../unix-faq.

Only if you have a posting that is not more appropriate for one of the other
Linux groups - ie it is not a question, not about the future development of
Linux, not an announcement or bug report and not about system administration -
should you post to comp.os.linux.misc.


Comments on this posting are welcomed - please email me !
--
Ian Jackson  <ijackson@nyx.cs.du.edu>  (urgent email: iwj10@phx.cam.ac.uk)
2 Lexington Close, Cambridge, CB4 3LS, England;  phone: +44 223 64238

------------------------------

From: rqo3606@acf3.nyu.edu (Ron  Olson)
Subject: No cd-rom in Slack2!
Date: 13 Aug 1994 06:36:58 GMT

Hi all...

I recieved the Slackware 2 cdrom from Linux Sytem Labs. I created
a bootdisk using cdu31a and mounted and installed pretty painlessly.
Now that I actually have Linux w/X going, it seems to have stopped
seeing the cdrom. When I boot Linux (from floppy), it says "device
already mounted, wrong fs time, device busy, or other error". Real
helpful. A mount statement shows no cdrom drive mounted anywhere.
I want to be able to use my Slackware CD if I need (and another one
for Andrew and things). I've tried both mount -t iso3960 (or
whatever the number is) /dev/cdu31a /cdrom and /dev/cdrom both
nothing works, I always get the same error. I figure it's due to
stupidity on my part; can anyone explain what?     

Thanks a lot for any info

Ron


------------------------------

From: jfung@engws12.ic.sunysb.edu (James T. Fung)
Subject: Linux @ 80x50?
Date: 13 Aug 1994 07:25:17 GMT


Hi All, I have Linux running with a ET4000 card, and would like to know if
there is any way I can set the screen to 80x50?  The default 80x25 just
doesn't fit enough text on the screen at once.  Thanks in advamce,

James
--
James T. Fung       |
jfung@ic.sunysb.edu |

------------------------------

From: byron@gemini.cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: starting X automatically on installing linux distribution
Date: 12 Aug 1994 18:32:19 GMT

The posts for this thread are getting longer and longer. I'll summarize and
Sujat can add whatever he likes to what I list as his points list.

Sujat Points (my perception)
1) Linux needs a GUI to compete with other PC based OS's.
2) X should be presented as a default for Linux at installation time.
3) Any type of GUI environment (even 640x480x16) is better than text.

My Points
1) Many PCs have insufficient resources to run X effectively.
2) The baseline (640x480x16) is almost unusable.
3) Novices would be put off if X didn't function as well as OS/2 or Windows.
4) Hiding what's going on from the user by adding an abstraction layer is a
   disservice to the user if the user doesn't understand the underlaying 
   layers. The solution here is to add transitional layers showing the user
   how to utilize the system at all layers so that they can pick an appropriate
   tool at an appropriate layer to do the job.

and most importantly

5) Linux doesn't have a need to compete with other PC based OS's. My personal
   vested interest in getting other folks to use Linux is so that I don't have
   to support DOS/Windows installations and to maximize the utility of each
   PC available. 

As Sujat said we agree to disagree.

Later,

BAJ
-- 
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel - And Using Linux!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

From: barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 12 Aug 1994 14:49:32 -0400

In article <32f1sv$cb0@crl.crl.com>, Bill Hogan <bhogan@crl.com> wrote:
>       comp.os.linux.admin
>       comp.os.linux.announce
>       comp.os.linux.applications      (looks to "world outside")

(please use .apps like everyone else, okay except the amiga people.)

>       comp.os.linus.beginners         (formerly 'comp.os.linux.help')

I think this can just remain .help.  I agree that the name is
redundant, but it does help draw beginners to the group.  (which
is why it was named that way if I recall)

I also agree a .hardware group would be useful, and logical way to
separate "how can I do this in Linux?" (.help), and "how can I get my
ABC WhizzyBoard to work with Linux?" (.hardware)

--Dave

------------------------------

From: hman@paola.dei.unipd.it (Heiko Herold)
Subject: Re: ! Can I benchmark on your Pentium ?!?
Date: 13 Aug 1994 10:55:52 GMT

In article <32f6vp$7tl@lll-winken.llnl.gov>,
Karl J. Runge <runge@redhook.llnl.gov> wrote:
>
>Hi, this is a strange request I know, but I'm in a bit of a jam.
>I am trying to justify the price/performance of the Pentium 90
>over the AIX's and Sparcs at work by making my workstation a P90
>with a $5000 equipment grant we got. Since our group does *alot*
>of number crunching there is legitimate concern about bringing in
>"cheap PeeCee's"
>
>So won't you help me get some estimates of our code run times with
>Pentium? I have benchmarked my 486 50MHz extensively, and as expected,
>it is very close to a Sparc II. "Folklore" based arguments suggest the
>P90 might be 5 times faster. If so that's good for my cause. 
>
>Thank you,
>
>Karl Runge 



If anyone let you do it...post the results.
Or at least mail 'em to me :)



Thanks
Heiko Herold

-- 
\________________/ hman@[paola][chiara][maya].dei.unipd.it \________________/
 DON'T PANIC - The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy            {itself}
 PANIC - The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy MK II        {Mostly Harmless}
      (perceiving the Whole Sort of General Mish Mash)       [Douglas Adams]

------------------------------

From: hman@paola.dei.unipd.it (Heiko Herold)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: comp.os.linux.hardware.*
Date: 13 Aug 1994 10:59:46 GMT

In article <32gg7s$9nd@bosnia.pop.psu.edu>,
David Barr <barr@pop.psu.edu> wrote:
>In article <32f1sv$cb0@crl.crl.com>, Bill Hogan <bhogan@crl.com> wrote:
[..]
>
>>      comp.os.linus.beginners         (formerly 'comp.os.linux.help')
>
>I think this can just remain .help.  I agree that the name is
>redundant, but it does help draw beginners to the group.  (which
>is why it was named that way if I recall)
>

Also consider that "What? I'm NOT a beginner - I'm already advanced :-!"
feeling... IMHO indeed help is better.

Heiko
-- 
\________________/ hman@[paola][chiara][maya].dei.unipd.it \________________/
 DON'T PANIC - The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy            {itself}
 PANIC - The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy MK II        {Mostly Harmless}
      (perceiving the Whole Sort of General Mish Mash)       [Douglas Adams]

------------------------------

From: ghouston@actrix.gen.nz (Gary Houston)
Subject: Re: [BUG] in cp (copy) on DOS fs.
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 22:36:54 GMT

In article <CuCFzA.Hp9@erie.ge.com>,
Andrew R. Tefft <teffta@erie.ge.com> wrote:
> In article <1994Aug10.122407.26071@dmu.ac.uk>,
> Robert Logan <rl@dmu.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> In those cases, cp is behaving exactly how you told it to.
> Those are valid uses of cp (the -i option would have prevented
> the disaster though).
> 

Maybe this should be put in the default /etc/profile's:

function cp {
  /bin/cp -i $*
}
function mv {
  /bin/mv -i $*
}
export -f cp mv

------------------------------

From: teffta@erie.ge.com (Andrew R. Tefft)
Subject: Re: [BUG] in cp (copy) on DOS fs.
Reply-To: teffta@erie.ge.com
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 18:27:40 GMT

In article 1vr@crl4.crl.com, dheltzel@crl.com (Dennis Heltzel) writes:
>Andrew R. Tefft (teffta@erie.ge.com) wrote:
>: This explains why you can say 'tar cvf test.tar *' and not include
>: test.tar in itself. 
>
>Good point, but this concept doesn't work as well with redirection & pipes.
>Ex.
>       fgrep search_text * > found_file
>>
>BTW, for those who don't understand what's wrong with the above, the 
>shell creates the file "found_file" prior to expanding the *. The output 
>file is then included as an input file -- result: infinite loop. Well, 
>not really infinite, just until it runs out of disk space and dies ;).

Yes, I was going to mention that but I wasn't thinking about the relevance
to wildcard expansion which you point out.

Another thing with redirection that sometimes gets newbies is that the
file "found_file" would get created even if there was an error (e.g.
if fgrep was mistyped).


---

Andy Tefft               - new, expanded .sig -     teffta@erie.ge.com



------------------------------

From: teffta@erie.ge.com (Andrew R. Tefft)
Subject: Re: [BUG] in cp (copy) on DOS fs.
Reply-To: teffta@erie.ge.com
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 18:30:35 GMT

In article 5ID@actrix.gen.nz, ghouston@actrix.gen.nz (Gary Houston) writes:
>
>Maybe this should be put in the default /etc/profile's:
>
>function cp {
>  /bin/cp -i $*
>}

Be careful -- you don't really want users to think that this is
the default behavior of cp/mv/etc. because when they get on that other
system without it aliases, they will expect it to prompt. In fact,
people have posted to the linux groups before fully believing that
the prompting *is* the normal behavior!


---

Andy Tefft               - new, expanded .sig -     teffta@erie.ge.com



------------------------------


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