Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #587
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Thu, 11 Aug 94 00:13:15 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #587, Volume #2                Thu, 11 Aug 94 00:13:15 EDT

Contents:
  Re: mput, mget different speed ? (Dan Pop)
  Mail reader over term? (Jeffrey D. Frey)
  Re: term cps stats (Christopher M. May)
  Re: Anyone assembling custom LINUX systems? (Gustaf Neumann)
  Re: Multi-threaded linux-kernel (Mike Jagdis)
  Re: a more "secure" su? (Beeblebrox)
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (Brandon S. Allbery)
  Re: [BUG] in cp (copy) on DOS fs. (Andrew R. Tefft)
  Re: Linux book(s) (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR)
  Re: Which serial board? (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR)
  Re: man 1.3 bug? (Andries Brouwer)
  HELP: Sony CDROM won't mount (Gateway 2000) (Serge Solski u)
  Re: 3rd+ IDE Drives (Steve Hauser)
  Motif - SWIM or Metro Link? (Timothy A. Kobett)
  Re: starting X automatically on installing linux distribution (Sujat Jamil)
  Re: linux - where can I get the latest? (Scott G. Hall)
  NeXTStep BETA on PPC? (mraja)
  Re: SLIP routing problems (Brian Watts)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch (Dan Pop)
Subject: Re: mput, mget different speed ?
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 16:36:11 GMT

In <325v6b$b08@news.hk.net> atsang@hk.net (Alan Tsang) writes:

>Would anybody explain why I always get higher speed with mput than mget
>when using ftp ?

Are you using a pocket ethernet adapter connected on the parallel port,
by any chance?

Dan
--
Dan Pop 
CERN, CN Division
Email: danpop@cernapo.cern.ch
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

------------------------------

From: freyj@cselc20.cs.hh.ab.com (Jeffrey D. Frey)
Crossposted-To: comp.mail.misc,comp.mail.sendmail,comp.os.linux
Subject: Mail reader over term?
Date: 10 Aug 1994 18:30:05 GMT

I have just recently set up term2.0.4 on my linux box at home.  I was wondering
it is possible to set up a mail reader on my local box and then user it over 
term.  If so what is the best mail reader and how would I go about doing this?
Thanks for the help in advance.

Jeffrey Frey


------------------------------

From: cmay@titan.ucs.umass.edu (Christopher M. May)
Subject: Re: term cps stats
Date: 10 Aug 1994 16:43:24 GMT

Bill McCarthy (bmccarth@gulfaero.com) wrote:
: Keywords: cps stats term configuration

: Hiya:

: Seems like a lot of folks are using term, m'self included. I was wondering...
: how prectical is it to get some kind of stat chart on term ver, modem, line
: speed, modem setup, comm prog, term config - line cmds or termrc, and cps
: rates? Would this be a waste of bandwidth? Some folks over on compssysibmpc

The variables involved are fairly high.  The results, however are fairly
constant, IMO.  If you really want to compile this kind of info, you
should post a template where people can fill in the blanks and send you
a completed form.  Then you can summarize and post the results.  This 
would conserve bandwidth.

--

-Chris May, Computer Science, University of MA, Amherst
-       Technical Assistant, P.C. Maintenance Lab


------------------------------

From: neumann@watson.ibm.com (Gustaf Neumann)
Subject: Re: Anyone assembling custom LINUX systems?
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 21:07:24 GMT

In article <EWERLID.94Aug10013228@frej.teknikum.uu.se> from [09 Aug 1994 23:32:28 GMT]
 ewerlid@frej.teknikum.uu.se (Ove Ewerlid)  wrote:
 |> In article <Cu9790.LEB@world.std.com> entropy@world.std.com (Lawrence Foard) writes:
 |>    >
 |>    >o  Pentium 90Mhz
 |> 
 |>    Not to much different than 486, it might not be worth the extra
 |>    money. Anyone have any bench marks for Linux?
 |> 
 |> We have a P90 system (PCI/48Mb DRAM (64bits wide)/512kb cache (WBack))
 |> and a vanilla i486DX2 @ 66 Mhz (IDE/16Mb(32bits)/256kb).
 |> 
 |> The P90 is 2.1 times faster wrt compiling the linux kernel.
 |> 
 |> The bandwidth to the DRAM of the P90 system is 4 times that of the i486 system.
 |> This gave me quite a boost as far as linking large binaries with
 |> lots of debugging info (6 Mb and larger). 

 Same experiences here on a SUPER PCI/VLB P54 90Mhz motherboard.
 On cpu-intense tasks (largish Prolog programs, typically 4MB memory) 
 i measure a speedup of 2.3 over a 486@66MHz
 
 -gustaf
--
Gustaf Neumann                     neumann@watson.ibm.com
Postdoctoral/Visiting Scientist    Tel: (914) 784 7086
IBM T.J.Watson Research Center, P.O.Box 704
Yorktown Heights, New York 10598


------------------------------

From: jaggy@purplet.demon.co.uk (Mike Jagdis)
Subject: Re: Multi-threaded linux-kernel
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 22:57:00 +0000

* In message <1994Aug8.223747.10645@kf8nh.wariat.org>,
  Brandon S. Allbery said:

BA> (Sam Oscar Lantinga) says:
BA> +---------------
BA> | Just out of curiosity, why is Viper going to be a whole
BA> | new kernel?  Why isn't it a patch, like all the other
BA> | great contributions?
BA> +------------->8

BA> You DON'T want to create a multithreaded kernel by patching
BA> a single-threaded
BA> kernel.  The results would be, umm, less than satisfactory.
BA> :-)  You want to
BA> redesign the kernel from scratch, or the need to deal with
BA> things like mutex
BA> locking will eat you (or the resulting kernel) alive --- and
BA> you also want to
BA> redesign the kernel to *use* multithreading, which usually
BA> requires a very different design.

Are you confusing threads with SMP here? Threads are not really a problem 
for the kernel as it is (although the user libraries would need mutex 
locking to make use of threads). It's only when you go to SMP architectures 
or allow preemption while in the kernel that you need to lock critical 
regions inside the kernel.

  Reading this thread (pun) it seems that people have a lot of background 
work to do before threads happen in Linux. So far no one has even agreed how 
memory works with respect to stacks etc. let alone considered the semantics 
of signals, files etc. in a threaded environment!

                                Mike  
 

------------------------------

From: M.S.Ashton@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Beeblebrox)
Subject: Re: a more "secure" su?
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 17:02:06 GMT

jasonh@chineham.euro.csg.mot.com (Jason Haar) writes:

>Jason Van Patten (vanpatjm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu) wrote:

>:      I say B.S.!  Does anyone know where I can get an su that DOES support
>: the 'wheel' group?  Email me your responses.. thanks so much.

>Try this:

>chmod o-rwx su #Stops everyone being able to run su
>chmod g+x su   #Ensures that the group can run su
>chgrp wheel su #Changes the group to wheel

That makes su not work for anyone but group wheel, which isn't the idea.
"Wheel support" implies that only group wheel can su root, but everyone else
can su to anyone else.
___
M.S.Ashton@dcs.warwick.ac.uk              M.S.Ashton@csv.warwick.ac.uk
C++ consultant and emacs support.         Mail me if you have any problems.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.hp.apps,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps,comp.unix.unixware
From: bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery)
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 16:11:00 GMT

In article <32acqaINNs1@ringer.syd.dwt.csiro.au>, peter@prospect.anprod.csiro.au (Peter Wiley - Poultry) says:
+---------------
| >| > customers that?  Get real!
| >| If you customers need now WINE, they can't use Linux. But what is in
| >| one year, in two years? Who knows.
| >+------------->8
| >
| >One year is beyond his event horizon.  This is akin to why so many U.S.
| >businesses cut R&D budgets "to help the bottom line"...
| 
| As for the comment about event horizons, get real. Just *try* telling a 
| potential client that there's some software that will do what they want but
| all they have to do is wait a year, well maybe 18 months well....
+------------->8

Fine.  What you removed from my message when you quoted it, probably so you
could again drag in the point I'd already answered as if it somehow had been
ignored, was the previous paragraph which said that if you need a solution
now, you give them one now --- and, at the moment, it's not Linux.

The point being ignored is that needing a solution *now* does not mean that it
is the only solution anyone should ever care about.

I work for a VAR.  I know when solutions are needed.  But if the solution
available *now* isn't really satisfactory, I'll still give it to them ---
while continuing to work on better alternatives.  Linux has the potential to
be such an alternative, and I'm not going to ignore its potential just because
some people can't see beyond *now*; *that* is ignorance.

Put another way:  where would UnixWare be if development on it had been
stopped (or never started) because "we need solutions now, not a few years
from now"?  If nobody's working on tomorrow's solutions today, they won't be
around tomorrow.  And it's tomorrow's customers (who may well also be today's
customers) that stand to lose as a result.

Certainly you can't ignore today to work on tomorrow; but you also can't
ignore tomorrow.  You're doing both yourself and your customers a disservice
if you do.

++Brandon

-- 
Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH         [44.70.4.88]             bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org
Linux development:  iBCS2, JNOS, MH

------------------------------

From: teffta@erie.ge.com (Andrew R. Tefft)
Subject: Re: [BUG] in cp (copy) on DOS fs.
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 23:59:33 GMT

In article <1994Aug10.122407.26071@dmu.ac.uk>,
Robert Logan <rl@dmu.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>Whoa - I appear to have found a major bug in Linux 'cp'.

Nope. Very *consistent* operation, but something that is confusing
to prior DOS users. You have to understand how the shell treats
wildcards. Most of us have been bitten at least once before we
understood.

>
>  cp /dosc/hold/xx.*

The shell expands "/dosc/hold/xx.*" and passes the resulting
list to the cp command. If you have two files, one gets copied
onto the other. If the last match (the shell lists them in alphabetical
order) is a directory, the previous files will silently get moved into
it. 

In those cases, cp is behaving exactly how you told it to.
Those are valid uses of cp (the -i option would have prevented
the disaster though).

Here's another case where it can bite you. If you use mcopy,
you might want to copy all files from A: to the current directory.
You do not do 'mcopy a:* .' but rather 'mcopy "a:*" .'. In this
case, if you forget the quotes, the shell tries to match the 
pattern a:*, and passes the resulting list of filenames onto
mcopy, followed by '.'. If there are no matches, the shell
will complain "no match" and nothing will happen. When you
put "a:*" in quotes, the shell does not expand it, and passes
it literally to mcopy. Mcopy then does the work to decide what
"a:*" means.

>buyer beware.

Exactly. It's tough to learn this the hard way, but take a good
look at how the shell expands wildcards. Liberal use of 'echo'
is good here. The important thing to remember is that the SHELL
expands the wildcards before starting up the program you're running.
This explains why you can say 'tar cvf test.tar *' and not include
test.tar in itself. 

-- 

Andy Tefft               - new, expanded .sig -     teffta@erie.ge.com

------------------------------

From: mah@ka4ybr.com (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR)
Subject: Re: Linux book(s)
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 23:53:37 GMT

Andy Oram (andyo@ruby.ora.com) wrote:
: A more intriguing project is a completely new book we're doing from
: scratch, with Matt Welsh (the head of the Linux Documentation Project)
: as a co-author.  We've been interested in Linux for a long time, but
: it takes quite a while to create a new book of value.  Now is really a
: little early to talk about it (I'm expecting it to be ready in
: January), but since you asked...  This book is an overview--I don't
: know if it will say anything new to regular readers of this group, but
: it will serve as a good introduction for otehr people who know UNIX
: but are new to Linux.


        ... and we all know what critter had better be on the cover of
        the Linux books, right?  :)

        Seriously, I think this is an excellent addition to the O'Reilly
        offerings... I use and recommend their publications often (dropped
        a bundle on it, but have now accumulated virtually everything 
        they publish!)  That they are releasing publications devoted to
        Linux is a major step forward, I think... very much like the 
        "SCO UNIX in a Nutshell."  

        -- Mark

--
"Linux!     Guerrilla UNIX Development     Venimus, Vidimus, Dolavimus."
============================================================
Mark A. Horton       ka4ybr             mah@ka4ybr.atl.ga.us
P.O. Box 747 Decatur GA US 30031-0747         mah@ka4ybr.com
+1.404.371.0291                     33 45 31 N / 084 16 59 W

------------------------------

From: mah@ka4ybr.com (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR)
Subject: Re: Which serial board?
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 00:00:30 GMT

Jim Michael (genepool@netcom.com) wrote:
: Help me decide what serial board to buy. Need at least a 4 port board w/
: 16550s. Have reference to an STB 4 port for $150, can obtain Boca 4 port
: locally for $80, and have been offered a Digiboard 8 port board for $350.
: Will use for terminal(s) and 14.4 modem. Thanks.

: Jim

        I use two of the STB-4COM cards and have been very happy with them...
        8 ports, 2 IRQs, dumb cards so no drivers to load, 4 16550s on each
        card, full modem line control.

        the $150 you quote is a bit high... I got mine from the following
        place... they might even be less elsewhere.

        Cost : $110.00 - including shipping in US
                PreRapture Solutions
                Steve Winter
                1806 Albany Street
                Durham, NC  27705-3134
                +1.919.286.1502

Hope this helps!
        - Mark
--
"Linux!     Guerrilla UNIX Development     Venimus, Vidimus, Dolavimus."
============================================================
Mark A. Horton       ka4ybr             mah@ka4ybr.atl.ga.us
P.O. Box 747 Decatur GA US 30031-0747         mah@ka4ybr.com
+1.404.371.0291                     33 45 31 N / 084 16 59 W

------------------------------

From: aeb@cwi.nl (Andries Brouwer)
Subject: Re: man 1.3 bug?
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 00:27:06 GMT

pit@lxs.baboon.ch (Peter Berger) writes:

: Just packed my non-formatted man-pages in /usr/man/man? and looked at one of
: the now packed man-pages (/usr/man/man1/groff.1.gz). man (v1.3, out of
: Slackware 2.0) did show the man-page as it should but there's one drawback.
: The resulting formatted man-page looks like that:

: /var/man/man1/groff.1.gz.gz

: That's not what I'd expect.. (/var/man/man1/groff.1.gz).

I am far away from any Linux machine, but have you tried man-1.4b.tar.gz?
(Found e.g. on sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/system/Manual-pagers.)

------------------------------

From: sols7520@mach1.wlu.ca (Serge Solski u)
Subject: HELP: Sony CDROM won't mount (Gateway 2000)
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 00:15:19 GMT


        The Sony CDROM in my Gateway 2000 P5-90 won't mount for runtime
operations. It works fine when I boot of the install disks (which is how I
loaded Linux), but doesn't work when I boot off the hard drive. I looked
everywhere for a FAQ or HOWTO that explains this, but there is no
information about this. When Linux tries to mount it, it gives "mount:
wrong fs type, /dev/cdu31a already mounted, /cdrom busy, or other error".
It does this during bootup, and when I try to do it manually.

        Anyone know how I can fix this? Did other Gateway owners have the
same problem? I'm using Infomagic's Slackware 2.0 CD package (verion
1.1.18). 

        Is there a special kernel I should be using, and how can I find it
then use it? I believe I have the correct kernel already, but....

        Much thanks for any help anyone can give me.


        -Mark
-- 
"Key chuckles. 'If Skinny Puppy, in terms of the movie _Alien_, is a
chest-burster, then Doubting Thomas is more of a face-hugger,' he informs,
as if that were an explanation."
                                                        -Keyboard, Jan '92

------------------------------

From: shauser@hookup.net (Steve Hauser)
Subject: Re: 3rd+ IDE Drives
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 00:41:36 GMT

In article <1994Aug9.201052.8174@vax1.mankato.msus.edu> hayden@vorlon.mankato.msus.edu (Robert A. Hayden) writes:
>This has been batted around a few times by others, but I haven't really
>seen a difinitive answer yet to this question and thought I'd try. 

>I have a VLB IDE I/O card that will support two strings of IDE drives (it 
>has two interfaces), with the second string being able to be assinged an 
>inturrupt and stuff similiar to as if you dropped in a second card.

>Is it possible to use a 3rd and fourth IDE drive (assuming no inturrupt
>conflict)?  If so, what patches or kernels are needed (I'm running 1.1.13
>with the IDE Performance patch)?  I haven't upgraded to a kernel >1.1.13 
>yet because I haven't had the need to, but that is a simple (in theory) 
>enough procedure.  NOTE:  This system DOES NOT have DOS installed on it, 
>so solutions cannot require DOS.

I'm using the atdisk2 patch to support two additional AT style hard drives.  
Although I have two separate controllers, it would be no different from your 
setup.  All you have to know is what IRQ the secondary controller is tied to.  
Be glad that you won't have to break out the soldering iron :-)

Actually, you could have more than 4 IDE/AT drives in your system.  All you 
have to do is add more controllers and hack them so they use unique I/O 
addresses and IRQs (if you don't mind cutting traces...).  By looking at the 
mods that atdisk2 does to the hd.c driver, it should be relatively easy to add 
a hd2.c etc. for more drives.

Of course this is only useful if you happen to have the hardware lying around 
(as I did).  A SCSI bus or bigger drives would certainly be better bang for 
the buck if you actually have to buy hardware.

------------------------------

From: takobet@clark.net (Timothy A. Kobett)
Subject: Motif - SWIM or Metro Link?
Date: 11 Aug 1994 03:23:02 GMT



--
Tim Kobett
takobet@clark.net


------------------------------

From: sujat@shasta.ee.umn.edu (Sujat Jamil)
Subject: Re: starting X automatically on installing linux distribution
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 00:36:57 GMT

In article <msuzio.776543033@tiamat.umd.umich.edu>,
Mike Suzio <msuzio@tiamat.umd.umich.edu> wrote:
>I think overall Linux could go a lot farther in these kinds of areas.  It's
>a great idea to at least keep in mind that a lot of the kludgy artifacts of
>Unix are just that - artifacts, and there are few reasons to stick to them.
>If someone tells me Unix sucks because "you have to use vi", I tell them to
>try pico.  If someone tells me that Unix sucks because "It has that shitty
>man feature, who can figure that out or get any useful information from
>it?" I point them to the "help" feature on our system, which took a day or
>two to write and seems to get people moving in the right direction.  
>

Exactly!  A lot of people think of Unix in terms of its UI, *not* its
internal capabilities--which is SO sad!  Unix memory management, file
managment, process management, network management (need I go on...) is
far superior to the so called user friendly systems!  I guess what's
so hard to get across is UI and internal power are (relatively)
orthogonal issues!  There's no reason why a *nix/X combination with an
abstraction layer (again look at HP-Vue, Suntools, or SGI desktop as
examples) can't be every bit as "friendly" as Windows or Macintosh.  

And if you want to, yearn to, or love to why you always have the
option of using a character based UI with all the grep, sed, awk, and
lex tools to your heart's content!

>What I'm trying to say is, all these UI issues have little or nothing to
>really do with Unix.  Is is user-unfriendly?  Hell yes.  Does it need to be
>that way?  Mostly not.  I'm a hacker, I love to be able to do things like
            ^^^^^^^^^^^

Hear hear! 

>complex command substitutions and arcane shell-incantations, but I also
>wouldn't mind comprehensible man pages and a nice system-administration GUI
>of some sort (yes, I know some of these are being written).

Yup!

>
>I'd like to see more people use Linux, mostly because I like to see people
>use their brains rather than veg on Windoze.  I also realize that there is
>a certain gap here that would need to be bridged to get the non-Unix savvy
>to get interested in what Linux can offer them.  Bridging the gap entails
>tossing away the mindset that "Unix is a manly OS, we don't need no steenking
>user-friendliness!  If you can't hack it, go away!".

Again, hear hear!  And once you get people hooked on the power of the
*nix/X environment (just think--running a program on one machine and
displaying on the screen of anonther-this simple concept is
mind-boggling to Windows/Mac users!), they'll never want their old
simple environments again.  But, and it's a big BUT, the introduction
to the *nix environment needs to be gentle, not sudden.  And it should
be the user who decides what level of abstraction they want to stay
at, instead of it being shoved down their throats! 

>
>Anyway - Id like to see people take a long look at the flak Linux/Unix gets
>from the DOS weenies, and see if maybe we can't take some steps to address
>these "problems"...  I put the word in quotes, because a lot of these
>things just don't need to be this way.  If we never had to manually edit a
>system config file again, it would still be Unix, and still be cool,
>right?
>
>Friendly disagreement welcome.  Flames to /dev/null, I don't need the
>hassle.
>

No disagreement.  I heartily agree with every word in
your posting!


Sujat
--
*******************************************************************************
Sujat Jamil                                             Electrical Engineering
Graduate Research Assistant                             University of Minnesota
******************************sujat@shasta.ee.umn.edu**************************

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit,alt.os.linux
From: sgh@cbvox1.cb.att.com (Scott G. Hall)
Subject: Re: linux - where can I get the latest?
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 00:37:48 GMT

In article <1994Jul7.222235.6001@intellistor.com>,
Saul Pliuskonis <pliuskon@intellistor.com> wrote:
>I am looking for the latest linux (whatever it might be),
>and also any FAQ files for linux.

The horse's mouth:

Linux Systems Labs
18300 Tara Dr.
Clinton Twp, MI  48036
313-954-2829
800-705-7383 (North America)

They have CD-ROM and Floppy versions -- the floppy version is usually
more up-to-date.

Also notice the cross posting of this article and the followup-to.
You can find a lot in the comp.os.linux.* hierachy -- and FAQ's in
the comp.os.linux.misc area.

-- 
- sgh           We don't play golf to feel bad... We play bad golf to feel good!
                        - Leslie Nielson "Bad Golf Made Easier"

------------------------------

From: mraja@satelnet.org (mraja)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.powerpc,comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: NeXTStep BETA on PPC?
Date: 11 Aug 1994 00:45:13 GMT

In article <32ap52$628@sunsic.si.univ-compiegne.fr>
ldebraux@hds.univ-compiegne.fr (Laurent Debraux) writes:

> 
>  For what i know, at this time it's not possible to use NEXTSTEP
>  on PPC, but who knows if it is possible, if we use an ORANGE CARD ?
>  And is it possible to use LINUX with such a card
> 
 Well.....from what I have heard. Developers already have NeXTStep
running on PPC....but dont really know if they are gonna release it.
I *heard* that on some WWW site...i think..i might be wrong.

Moazam A. Raja
mraja@satelnet.org
mraja01@solix.fiu.edu

------------------------------

From: brian@xp.psych.nyu.edu (Brian Watts)
Subject: Re: SLIP routing problems
Date: 10 Aug 1994 19:26:39 GMT

To: brian@xp.psych.nyu.edu
Subject: Re: SLIP routing problems
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development
In-Reply-To: <32av7o$djc@cmcl2.nyu.edu>
Organization: Some Psych
Cc: 
Bcc: 

Apologies for a false alarm....

I recompiled the kernel with :
IP forwarding/gateway : y
And SLIP works pefectly now.  I hadn't realised that the default
was NOT to forward IP packets.

Sorry for the waste of band-width.

I'm still curious as to why dip doesn't configure the interface
correctly though...

Brian

------------------------------


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