Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #563
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sat, 6 Aug 94 20:13:08 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #563, Volume #2                 Sat, 6 Aug 94 20:13:08 EDT

Contents:
  Re: How to connect four CDROM drives? (Karl Eichwalder)
  Re: Linux book(s) (Juergen Sahlberg)
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (J.J. Paijmans)
  Possible bug in rpc.nfsd (Paul Makeev)
  Re: source of TCP/IP (was I hope this wont ignite a major flame ...) (Wallace Roberts)
  Re: Mild warning about slackware installed users. (Stan Orrell)
  Re: Mild warning about slackware installed users. (Robert P Glamm)
  Re: X-Windows True color support? (Matt Judson)
  Re: source of TCP/IP (was I hope this wont ignite a major flame ...) (Michael L. VanLoon)
  Re: source of TCP/IP (was I hope this wont ignite a major flame ...) (Michael L. VanLoon)
  Re: source of TCP/IP (was I hope this wont ignite a major flame ...) (Russell Nelson)
  Re: How to connect four CDROM drives? (Jon Stockill)
  Re: source of TCP/IP (was I hope this wont ignite a major flame ...) (Wallace Roberts)
  Re: Mild warning about slackware installed users. (Patrick J. Volkerding)
  Re: Doom on SGI -- wow! (William Devine II)
  SEMINAR: Intro. to Linux, 8/9/94, by ILA (Charles Liu)
  Re: LINUXNET/NeighborNET... another idea... (Anthony Lewis)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin
From: karl@pertron.central.de (Karl Eichwalder)
Subject: Re: How to connect four CDROM drives?
Reply-To: keichwa@gwdg.de (Karl Eichwalder)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 11:28:18 GMT

6 Aug 1994 06:30:07 GMT, Luke M Kaven (lmk6@crux1.cit.cornell.edu) wrote:

Before Eberhard starts shouting again ;-)

> Although I know now that one can use the various SoundBlaster
> cards as an interface to the Panasonic CR562B CD-ROM drive,
> I would like to know what interface I must use to connect
> multiple drives.

... you may look at

        /usr/src/linux/drivers/block/README.sbpcd

If this README isn't there -- you first have to grap the Linux kernel
source and unpack the gzip'd tarfile.

OK, in the README we are still missing some nice sketches how to make
the appropriate cables and how to plug more than one or two -- not to
mention 16 -- drives in a standard Linux box ;-)

--
                        | keichwa@gwdg.de             |  ____   _ o
                        | karl@pertron.central.de     | ___  _-\_<,
Karl Eichwalder         | 2:2437/209                  |     (*)/'(*) 

------------------------------

From: sahlberg@ham.fe.uni-bremen.de (Juergen Sahlberg)
Subject: Re: Linux book(s)
Date: 6 Aug 1994 20:55:32 GMT
Reply-To: sahlberg@fe.uni-bremen.de

Hello Linuxers,

Yes it's true, there is a real landslide going ahead from D*S to Linux. 
It is the first time german user have the chance to join in a major free 
software project and distibute it all over the county. There is a 
Linux-Net arising these days. As the number of internet accounts do grow 
exponentially each month over here and due to the currently relaxed german 
(better European Union) telecom laws there will be loads of Linux support 
sites around. One of these is the german iX magazine (market leader in 
german speaking countries).
Linux is great, and many colleagues and friends start using it at home !
It's the firtst time, that you get a real UNIX-alike operating system to 
work on limited hardware for free.
I'm going to drop SCO-ODT soon if iBCS support does work for my 
simulation programs and if there is WP-6.0 and perhaps a good spreadsheet 
and a database around I'll also get rid of MS-D*S and WIND++S on my 
system !

Thanks a lot Linus (and all Linux workers),
Juergen

--

Dipl.-Ing. Juergen Sahlberg     <sahlberg@fe.uni-bremen.de>
Universitaet Bremen, FB 4, Badgasteiner Str.1, D-28359 Bremen, Germany
PHONE +49 421 218-2267 (voice)  +49 421 218-3912 (fax)

------------------------------

From: paai@kub.nl (J.J. Paijmans)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.hp.apps,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: 6 Aug 1994 20:34:44 GMT

In article <1994Jul31.164649.29655@midway.uchicago.edu> goer@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
...
>cations.  This is why many (most?) Linuxers keep DOS or OS/2 partitions
>on their disks.  Why run WordPerfect for Unix when you get a much better
>version under plain old DOS?  And, unless you like old-fashioned ASCII-
>based typesetters (TeX, e.g.), that's pretty much it for Unix - with the
>situation being even graver for off-mainstream Linux.

Funny thing is: I always laughed at those Troglodytes that used TeX,
flashing first my Ventura, then my Amipro and finally my Word4Windows
as the way the future went...  ... only two or three months ago I
REALLY had to do a lot of desktop- publishing with three or four
different people on as many operating systems. Tell you what: after
working for more than eight years with the WYSIWIGs I mentioned above,
I finally had to admit that for getting work done, LaTeX was the
thing. Only I had to experience Unix first.

...


>We all have to face facts that Unix is going nowhere in the popular mar- 
>ket.  And neither is Linux.  
> 

Just you wait until people need to do some serious work... :-)


Hans Paijmans

-- 
Copyright Hans Paijmans 1994. Niets hierboven mag geheel of
gedeeltelijk worden geciteerd buiten de nieuwsgroep(en) waar het
oorspronkelijk is geplaatst.  Nothing of the above may be cited
outside the newsgroups in which the message originally was posted.

------------------------------

From: Paul Makeev <mac@glas.apc.org>
Date: 06 Aug 94 02:17 GMT+0400
Subject: Possible bug in rpc.nfsd

After some time, rpc.nfsd process becomes accessible by any user in the
system. Hes/she can kill it. What is it? This feature is very annoing.
I use Linux 1.1.38 now, but this feature started in 1.1.37.
Is it a bug in 1.1.37 or in rpc.nfsd, or my setup is wrong? (Hmm, last
seems to be the answer).

SY, Paul.

------------------------------

From: robertsw@agcs.com (Wallace Roberts)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: source of TCP/IP (was I hope this wont ignite a major flame ...)
Date: 5 Aug 1994 16:59:07 -0700

michaelv@iastate.edu (Michael L. VanLoon) writes:
>robertsw@agcs.com (Wallace Roberts) writes:

        [ ...yet another snip happens... ]

>>if you're writing (or fixing) a device driver, you are expected to have
>>the h/w manuals handy.  comments are unnecessary if you have the device
>>manual & understand the h/w.  this is the expected level of competence
>>for a programmer writing or fixing a device driver.
>
>In other words: real hackers don't need comments, because they can
>figure it out from the magic numbers.

"if you can't stand the heat of the kitchen..."

besides, complaining about the dearth of comments in free device-driver
code smacks strongly of looking a gift horse in the mouth, not to
mention whining.

>Yup, that's a real strong argument.  Sheesh!  Even Microsoft writes
>their code better than that... (Yes, I do know.)
=================================^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
you've viewed microlimp code?  do the lobotomy scars still show?

"beware the power of the darkside."

gears,
ye wilde ryder
--
robertsw@agcs.com | 86 cr250 "dirt devil"    83 v65 magna "animal"
"E Pluribus Unix" | 79 it250 "mr. reliable"  84 650 nighthawk ">> for sale <<"
"Criminals (especially tyrants) prefer unarmed victims."
"Ignorance can be cured; stupidity, on the other hand, is hereditary."

------------------------------

From: sao@thales.nmia.com (Stan Orrell)
Subject: Re: Mild warning about slackware installed users.
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 19:28:23 GMT

Rusty Carruth (rusty@indirect.com) wrote:
: We recently installed linux on a machine to set it up as our
: Later, I happened to be noodling around while waiting for other stuff,
: and noticed 3 users which had been installed - gonzo, snake, and pit
: (or was that hell?).  Anwyay, they all 3 had no passwords assigned.

: I'd suggest that anyone wishing to not let others log on to their
: linux box be sure to check for (and delete or otherwise modify)
: any accounts which might get installed with permissions you don't 
: like.

: Of course, this goes for ALL new installs of any Unix or unix clone...

One should also look for a script called gonzo, which if run will create
the same 3 users with no passwds.  I have forgotten where it is, but it
is there, I think in dir called scripts in src's but on our system it 
had world execute perms.  So make sure it's gone also.  

There is another which will chmod on /etc/passwd to world write.  Grep 
for passwd in that dir.  I think the whole dir should be rm.

sao@nmia.com  Stan Orrell

------------------------------

From: glam0001@gold.tc.umn.edu (Robert P Glamm)
Subject: Re: Mild warning about slackware installed users.
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 19:15:39 GMT

>We recently installed linux on a machine to set it up as our
>DNS for external use (to allow our domain to become activated).

>Later, I happened to be noodling around while waiting for other stuff,
>and noticed 3 users which had been installed - gonzo, snake, and pit
>(or was that hell?).  Anwyay, they all 3 had no passwords assigned.

>So, a reminder which may or may not be useful:

>I'd suggest that anyone wishing to not let others log on to their
>linux box be sure to check for (and delete or otherwise modify)
>any accounts which might get installed with permissions you don't 
>like.

>Of course, this goes for ALL new installs of any Unix or unix clone...

Of course, if you monitor the installation & do it package by package,
you can skip adding the fake users satan, gonzo, & snake, and avoid
all the trouble in the first place... ;)

Bob Glamm
glamm@msi.umn.edu

------------------------------

From: wbrimley@obelisk.uucp (Matt Judson)
Subject: Re: X-Windows True color support?
Date: 4 Aug 1994 22:42:15 GMT

>TSE FU WING (s901879@acs.csc.cuhk.hk) wrote:
>:   I need to view a 24-bit true color picture on Linux system. I have
>: a Tseng Lab ET4000 24-bit true color SVGA card. Can someone tell me
>: that is it possible to do this (i.e. all the 16.7M true color can be

There are svgalib viewers (e.g. spic) that support true-color viewing
on the linux console...

Hope it helps

-- 
New from Pepperidge Farms: Pimpleton Squeezles...
Jesus Saves           Gretzky rebounds and SCORES

------------------------------

From: michaelv@iastate.edu (Michael L. VanLoon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: source of TCP/IP (was I hope this wont ignite a major flame ...)
Date: 6 Aug 94 05:05:15 GMT

In <31ujob$e9d@oscar.agcs.com> robertsw@agcs.com (Wallace Roberts) writes:

>michaelv@iastate.edu (Michael L. VanLoon) writes:

>>In other words: real hackers don't need comments, because they can
>>figure it out from the magic numbers.

>"if you can't stand the heat of the kitchen..."

That's really about the worst application of that analogy I've seen.
"If you can't stand really poorly written code, don't use it."
Thanks, I won't.

>besides, complaining about the dearth of comments in free device-driver
>code smacks strongly of looking a gift horse in the mouth, not to
>mention whining.

Not when there's much better free software out there.  I'm not saying
that *all* of Linux is badly written -- obviously it's not -- this is
just one snippet of code.  But I can't believe someone is actually
wasting their time defending a piece of code that is obviously badly
commented, will be difficult to maintain, and just plain defies most
good coding standards.

>>Yup, that's a real strong argument.  Sheesh!  Even Microsoft writes
>>their code better than that... (Yes, I do know.)
>---------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>you've viewed microlimp code?  do the lobotomy scars still show?

Yes, I have worked with MicroSoft source.  Scary.

And, funny thing is, the name I gave my NT workstation is "Lobotomy"
(the machine at one of my three jobs -- my other jobs are on unix
machines, thank God).  My hard drive partions on Lobotomy are
DainBramage and BadTrip.  Ironic that you would bring that up... ;-)

But, the key point is, they know how to abstract properly, and they
document well.  Seems like the only way to do things if there's more
than just one person (potentially) working in the same code.

>"beware the power of the darkside."

Oh, don't worry... my *own* computer at home has 600MB of unix, and
not a byte of Microsloth on it.  And that will never change. :-)

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 Michael L. VanLoon                 Iowa State University Computation Center
    michaelv@iastate.edu                    Project Vincent Systems Staff
  Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free Un*x for PC/Mac/Amiga/etc.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

------------------------------

From: michaelv@iastate.edu (Michael L. VanLoon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: source of TCP/IP (was I hope this wont ignite a major flame ...)
Date: 6 Aug 94 05:19:07 GMT

In <31ukgh$eao@oscar.agcs.com> robertsw@agcs.com (Wallace Roberts) writes:

>deeken@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Hannes Deeken) writes:

>>Sure, you can figure out what these number means, if you have
>>the manuals.

>isn't that what i wrote?  "you are expected to have the h/w manuals
>handy."

Why do you assume a hardware manual should be necessary to maintain
already functioning code?  If I had to look up everything all the
time, it would make me very unproductive.  How do you tell if the
magic numbers are linux-specific or hardware-specific?  And, if
they're not hardware-specific, then I shouldn't need a hardware manual
to figure that out.

>the numbers used in masking usually are cumulative, i.e., each bit has a
>meaning.  do you expect the guy writing the driver to spell out each bit
>for you, then inclusive or them all together so you won't have to hurt
>yourself?

Uh, yes.  I think that's what he was asking for.  Why does that seem
so hard?

Take a look at the NetBSD hardware register headers some time.  It's
really not that tough to do, and it sure makes reading (and adding to)
the code much easier.  Why should I have to keep remembering whether
CCRO was 0x22 or 0x23, when I can just use CCR0?

>>Ever heard of the '#define' directive available with the C preprocessor?

>ever hear of the "death of a thousand #define's?"  if you #define each
>bit's meaning, then or them all together, things can get unwieldy in a
>hurry:

>rx_status &= (PWR_BIT | TST_BIT | OH_BIT | HS_BIT | DTR_BIT | RXD_BIT | TXD_BIT | BUTT_BIT);

What's so bad about that?  How many times are you going to need a line
like that?  How about a little formatting:

  rx_status &= ( PWR_BIT | TST_BIT | OH_BIT  | HS_BIT |
                 DTR_BIT | RXD_BIT | TXD_BIT | BUTT_BIT );

Don't look so bad to me.

>mere mortal.  you are not worthy to lick the sweat from my balls.

Yet, it sounds like it would be more satisfying than reading your
code. ;-)

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 Michael L. VanLoon                 Iowa State University Computation Center
    michaelv@iastate.edu                    Project Vincent Systems Staff
  Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free Un*x for PC/Mac/Amiga/etc.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

------------------------------

From: nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: source of TCP/IP (was I hope this wont ignite a major flame ...)
Date: 05 Aug 1994 16:29:47 GMT

In article <31od8d$15l@fw.novatel.ca> hpeyerl@sidney.novatel.ca (Herb Peyerl) writes:

   Donald Becker (becker@cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov) wrote:
   : Errr, I guess you haven't read any of the Linux source.  Hint: I wasn't
   : worried about at least one of those organizations.

   As far as I can tell; Linux Ethernet device-drivers were written in
   Write-Only-C.  There are no comments in the surrounding code that in any
   way indicates exactly what "0x3c00", "0x0a", "0x00c0" actually mean. To
   people without docs (usually these are the people who are trying to fix
   the code) the above is completely meaningless.

So?  Fix it if you think it's a problem, and submit it to Linus.
Hackers write code, they don't whine about other people's code.

--
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>    http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St.      | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX)  | What is thee doing about it?
Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin
From: jon@ops-wing.demon.co.uk (Jon Stockill)
Subject: Re: How to connect four CDROM drives?
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 19:36:56 +0000

Luke M Kaven (lmk6@crux1.cit.cornell.edu) wrote:
: Dear folks,

: Although I know now that one can use the various SoundBlaster
: cards as an interface to the Panasonic CR562B CD-ROM drive,
: I would like to know what interface I must use to connect
: multiple drives.  Since it is advertised that Linux will
: support four drives on one controller, I believe that this is
: meant to work.  But there is no mention in any documentation
: that I have found how to hook up (up to) four drives.  ** PLEASE,
: we are sincerely in need of advice on this matter.  **

AFAIK you just need a drive cable with connector for as many drives as you
have got, & you set the jumpers on the back of the drives to the required
ID.

--
=========================================================================== 
|   ___   _                                                               |
|    |   (_'                        Internet : Jon@ops-wing.demon.co.uk   |
|  ._|on ._)tockill                 Fidonet  : Jon Stockill (2:250/308.1) |
===========================================================================


------------------------------

From: robertsw@agcs.com (Wallace Roberts)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: source of TCP/IP (was I hope this wont ignite a major flame ...)
Date: 5 Aug 1994 17:12:01 -0700

deeken@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Hannes Deeken) writes:
>robertsw@agcs.com (Wallace Roberts) writes:
>
>>if you're writing (or fixing) a device driver, you are expected to have
>>the h/w manuals handy.  comments are unnecessary if you have the device
>>manual & understand the h/w.  this is the expected level of competence
>>for a programmer writing or fixing a device driver.
>
>Sure, you can figure out what these number means, if you have
>the manuals.

isn't that what i wrote?  "you are expected to have the h/w manuals
handy."

>But it takes you magnitudes longer to understand a
>piece of source if you have to lookup every number in a manual.

ok, follow closely; it may get a little deep for you.

the numbers used in masking usually are cumulative, i.e., each bit has a
meaning.  do you expect the guy writing the driver to spell out each bit
for you, then inclusive or them all together so you won't have to hurt
yourself?

>Ever heard of the '#define' directive available with the C preprocessor?

ever hear of the "death of a thousand #define's?"  if you #define each
bit's meaning, then or them all together, things can get unwieldy in a
hurry:

        rx_status &= (PWR_BIT | TST_BIT | OH_BIT | HS_BIT | DTR_BIT | RXD_BIT | TXD_BIT | BUTT_BIT);

ugh.

>Attitudes like yours are normally found in old programmers working
>on IBM mainframes and hacking /370 assembler or JCL.

sounds like you speak from close personal experience.

>>"if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch..."
>
>Well... maybe you should follow your own advice...

mere mortal.  you are not worthy to lick the sweat from my balls.

gears,
ye wilde ryder
--
robertsw@agcs.com | 86 cr250 "dirt devil"    83 v65 magna "animal"
"E Pluribus Unix" | 79 it250 "mr. reliable"  84 650 nighthawk ">> for sale <<"
"Criminals (especially tyrants) prefer unarmed victims."
"Ignorance can be cured; stupidity, on the other hand, is hereditary."

------------------------------

From: gonzo@magnet.mednet.net (Patrick J. Volkerding)
Subject: Re: Mild warning about slackware installed users.
Date: 6 Aug 1994 20:00:26 GMT

In article <Cu4orD.FML@thales.nmia.com>,
Stan Orrell <sao@thales.nmia.com> wrote:
>Rusty Carruth (rusty@indirect.com) wrote:
>: We recently installed linux on a machine to set it up as our
>: Later, I happened to be noodling around while waiting for other stuff,
>: and noticed 3 users which had been installed - gonzo, snake, and pit
>: (or was that hell?).  Anwyay, they all 3 had no passwords assigned.

In my opinion, this whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion. 
I'd like to point out a few things:

1. This package is *not* installed by default.
2. During (or before) its installation, it warns the (apparently asleep 
   at the wheel ;^) sysadmin that installing it will create three sample
   accounts with no initial passwords. (Some have suggested adding default
   passwords, but I think this makes it worse since the accounts then 
   *look* protected, but anyone who bothers to read the docs can find out
   the default passwords. Sometimes I think only hackers read the docs...)
3. Installing the package also tells you how to get rid of the accounts. 
   Here's the text displayed:

    Sample users "gonzo", "snake", and "satan".

    NOTE: These sample users will be created without passwords. Be sure to
    assign passwords to them after rebooting. If you decide you want to
    remove them later, you can remove a user (and the user's home
    directory) with this command:

    userdel -r user
               ^^^^ Where this is the account to remove.

Excuse me, but how much more idiot proof is a Un*x clone supposed to be?

>
>One should also look for a script called gonzo, which if run will create
>the same 3 users with no passwds.  I have forgotten where it is, but it
>is there, I think in dir called scripts in src's but on our system it 
>had world execute perms.  So make sure it's gone also.  

All it does is attempt to cat the entries to the /etc/passwd file. Of 
course, this won't work unless you're running as root.

>
>There is another which will chmod on /etc/passwd to world write.  Grep 
>for passwd in that dir.  I think the whole dir should be rm.

This isn't true - no installation script attempts to modify the 
permissions on /etc/passwd. Even if one did, again, it wouldn't have any 
effect unless it was run as root. Removing /var/adm/scripts is completely 
unnecessary, and will prevent proper upgrading in the future.

Do you worry if you see a script like this left by a user in /tmp?

#!/bin/sh
cd /
rm -rf *

I think a book on system administration is in order for some people...

Pat

------------------------------

From: wdevine@pvcea.pvamu.edu (William Devine II)
Subject: Re: Doom on SGI -- wow!
Date: 5 Aug 1994 20:29:56 GMT

Where can i find the Doom binaries for SGI's?
I got one and i want to play doom on a real machine!

thanx!
william

------------------------------

From: Charles Liu <alte@rahul.net>
Subject: SEMINAR: Intro. to Linux, 8/9/94, by ILA
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 20:12:58 GMT



ILA International Linux Association Seminar:


Topic: Introduction to Linux, by Randy Hootman

Time: 6:30 - 8:30 p.m., August 9, 1994 (Tuesday)

Location: 4701 Patrick Henry Drive, Building 17, Santa Clara. (off Great 
          America Parkway)

Cost: $5

Display/Sale:  Various Linux CDs, Books, Linux Journal
==================================================================

Content:

   I. Brief History of Linux

  II. System Features

 III. Software Features

      A. Basic commands and utilities

      B. Text/Word Processing

         1. vi

         2. emacs


       C. X Window System

       D. Networking
 
       E. Telecommunications

       F. Interfacing with other operating systems

          1. DOS

          2. MS-Windows

          3. OS/2

        G. Other applications

  IV. Differences Between Linux and other operating systems

   V. Hardware Requirements

  VI. Linux Resources

      A. Online documentation

      B. Books and publications

      C. News groups

      D. Internet mailing lists

 VII. Installing Linux

      A. Linux Distributions

      B. Preparing for Linux Installation

      C. Installing Linux

         1. Partitions

         2. Swap space

         3. File systems

         4. Software

         5. Booting

            a. floppy disk

            b. LILO

VIII. Linux Tutorial / Demo

  IX. X Windows Tutorial / Demo   

   X. Advanced Topics




-- 
End of Note

------------------------------

From: ziggy@village.instaview.com (Anthony Lewis)
Subject: Re: LINUXNET/NeighborNET... another idea...
Date: 6 Aug 1994 20:10:43 GMT

dylan@sycamore.aix.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com wrote:
: Christopher M. May (cmay@titan.ucs.umass.edu) wrote:
: : Bill Kress (kress@kentrox.com) wrote:
: : : I agree.  Radio has a bunch of problems, and I think I'd feel
: : : most comfortable with a system that required no government
: : : licensing (and therefore could not be shut down).

: : Well, I didn't let anything deter me from finding out what I could 
: : about packet.  Apparently there are some hams out there who think 
: : there is a future for people who wish to use the open air to 
: : communicate for free.


: : There is equipment listed there (GRAPES modem) which is supposedly 
: : capable of 128k bps connections. The costs tend to escalate, especially if you
: : don't already have a ham-radio setup.  The costs, however are not
: : out of the range of the "serious hobbyist"

: etc.
: How about ISDN-2? This is certainly now widely available (in England,
: at least) and the charges aren't extortionate. I think you get more
: than one 64kbps channel per ISDN line, plus a 16kbps channel.

: --
: #include <disclaimer.h>


: Internet: dylan@vnet.ibm.com  | JANET: dylan%vnet.ibm.com@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay




        My two cents worth:
                I would say that radio is the best way to go, even
though it is simi-controlled by the government, the phone system is 
stiffly controlled by the corporations...In a pinch, one could even
voliate the rules of a govenment in power at the time, where you cant
really control your own destiny with the phone company. Besides, the
movement in radio is to unrestrict the bandwith more and more..

                                Ziggy


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