Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #558
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Fri, 5 Aug 94 20:13:12 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #558, Volume #2                 Fri, 5 Aug 94 20:13:12 EDT

Contents:
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (Carlyle George)
  Re: LINUXNET... an idea... (Christopher M. May)
  Re: Linux book(s) (Andy Oram)
  Re: Format DATs? (Paul Lew)
  Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????) (Jorg Vogler)
  re: STREAMS  (was I hope this wont ignite ...) (Vernon Schryver)
  Free Motif GUI and API (clone) for Linux (jaakola@cc.helsinki.fi)
  Re: PCI Video card comparison test ? (Michael Will)
  Re: WordPerfect for LINUX (Mike Jagdis)
  Commercial Software available for Linux (was: WABI vs. SoftWindows?) (Michael Will)
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (Michael Will)
  Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows? (Michael Will)
  Re: IBSC (Keith Smith)
  Re: How do you read the c.o.l.* groups? (Michael Will)
  Re: QIC-02 Driver (Rob Janssen)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: carlyle+@pitt.edu (Carlyle George)
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: 5 Aug 1994 20:13:21 GMT

cu30>
>
>                       Carlyle  --- Proud Unix(exp Linux) student who is
>                               willing to learn inorder to become more
>                                       productive.
(exp Linux)
should be translated as especially Linux


------------------------------

From: cmay@titan.ucs.umass.edu (Christopher M. May)
Subject: Re: LINUXNET... an idea...
Date: 4 Aug 1994 05:35:41 GMT


Organization: University of Massachusetts at Amherst
Distribution: 

Christopher Preston (cs323116@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au) wrote:
:  
: If someone could post an approx figure on the price of setting up 
: something like the gear mentioned previously in this thread ( 'modem' 
: transceiver etc ) that would be great 
: ( I guess $US might be a common demoninator, but $AUS is fine :) ).

: I have already posted a similar question in rec.radio.ametuer but had no 
: response.


ftp to hydra.carleton.ca and look in /pub/hamradio.packet
for hispeed.006.  This file has the info you want.

--

-Chris May, Computer Science, University of MA, Amherst
-       Technical Assistant, P.C. Maintenance Lab


------------------------------

From: andyo@ruby.ora.com (Andy Oram)
Subject: Re: Linux book(s)
Date: 5 Aug 1994 17:03:48 -0400

> Last night, at a meeting of the Washington, DC Linux Users Group,
> someone mentioned that O'Reily is about to publish some volumes on
> Linux. Anyone else know about this?

Right now, we're just working on putting out Olaf Kirch's Network
Administration Guide.  I've been reviewing and editing it for several
months.

A more intriguing project is a completely new book we're doing from
scratch, with Matt Welsh (the head of the Linux Documentation Project)
as a co-author.  We've been interested in Linux for a long time, but
it takes quite a while to create a new book of value.  Now is really a
little early to talk about it (I'm expecting it to be ready in
January), but since you asked...  This book is an overview--I don't
know if it will say anything new to regular readers of this group, but
it will serve as a good introduction for otehr people who know UNIX
but are new to Linux.

Here are some excerpts from our upcoming October catalog:

        O'Reilly & Associates heard about Linux in September 1992.
        Several of our staff are now using it.  We have also reviewed
        and edited some of the books produced by the Linux
        Documentation Project, thus contributing to this valuable
        public resource.  And now we are publishing the first book in
        a new Linux series: the Network Administrator's Guide, written
        for the Linux Documentation Project by Olaf Kirch (see
        interview in this issue).

                . . .

        The Network Administrator's Guide

        Why would we publish this book?  After all (by agreement with
        the author) our editorial contributions are going into a free
        version that is being released on the net.  The overriding
        reason for our publishing it is that we see it as our kind of
        book.  It's what we'd want to produce if we contracted with an
        author to write about Linux.

        But publication in an attractive, widely-distributed volume is
        also good for the Linux community.  It provides a book that
        many people would like to own, and makes the information more
        widely available.  And it lends legitimacy to the fine
        creation of these hard-woorking programmers.

======================================================================
Andy Oram  O'Reilly & Associates, Inc.                   andyo@ora.com
           90 Sherman Street, Cambridge, MA 02140-3244  (617) 499-7479
           USA                                      fax:(617) 661-1116
======================================================================


------------------------------

From: paullew@crl.com (Paul Lew)
Subject: Re: Format DATs?
Date: 4 Aug 1994 20:40:39 -0700

: : --
: DAT never have to be formatted. Just use them...

Unless one is using backup software from NovaBack.  Have tried their
version for OS/2 and it "required" formatting the tape before use.

Of course, I have switched to something more sane since then.


------------------------------

From: jv@speedy.looneytunes (Jorg Vogler)
Subject: Motif for Linux (cheaper than $149 ????)
Date: 05 Aug 1994 20:06:12 GMT

Hi folks,

I wonder whether there is any Motif 1.2.? distribution available which is
cheaper than the SWiM and Metro Link.

Thanks

Joerg

(jv@wg.com)
--

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
From: vjs@calcite.rhyolite.com (Vernon Schryver)
Subject: re: STREAMS  (was I hope this wont ignite ...)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 14:01:21 GMT

In article <Cu0w8x.923@seas.ucla.edu> michel@lightning.seas.ucla.edu (Scott Michel) writes:

> ...
>Most x86 System V's use Lachman's TCP/IP package (I know that SCO
>and Interactive did) which is based on top of Streams. But there
>are some optimizations that Lachman did to make it faster. And there
>are numerous stream buffer parameters that can be tuned.
>
>Keep in mind that Streams was designed to implement the ISO 8 layer
>model, and not the IP 4 layer. It was also designed to allow
>flexibility in configuring multiple protocols (like ISO requires).
>
>Yes, most implementations of sockets on top of streams are hideous, but
>it should have been possible to rewrite sockets in terms of the TLI
>package (which I don't think is going on). Conceptually sockets and TLI
>implement the same thing.


The inventor of "streams" is reported to have said something like
"shouted, STREAMS is something else."

System V STREAMS are a nice porting environment.  It's far easier to
port STREAMS code from one system to another than BSD protocol switch
code , which is justification for DKI/DLPI using STREAMS (but not the
reason for using STREAMS; that has to do with politics).  STREAMS were
emphatically not "designed to implement the ISO 8 layer model" (was that
an intentional slip?  It's great!)   STREAMS were designed for not just
network stuff--read the old AT&T "STREAMS Primer."  My first experience
with STREAMS was writing what I suspect was the first commerical
implementation of UNIX STREAMS tty code.  It shipped years before either
AT&T or Sun shipped theirs, and was completed about the time the Lachman
TCP/IP was started.

Unfortunately, all of those put and service functions and the generic
nature of the stream head and scheduler ensure that STREAMS are never
as fast as sockets.  I think you can make "page flipping" and "hardware
checksumming" work with STREAMS (two primary techniques for fast
networking), but I doubt it is possible to make a "squashed STREAMS
stack" without doing fatal violence to the fundamental ideas of STREAMS.
The fastest TCP/IP implementations are based on sockets, not STREAMS,
and they run 2 to 20 times faster (yes, twenty, as in Gbit/sec).

It is extremely difficult to implement sockets on top of STREAMS.  The
years of bad results were not just because they didn't care, but because
it is very hard.  The models differ in critical respects.  It is simply
false that "conceptually sockets and TLI implement the same thing" unless
you stand so far back that you think COBOL and C are the same.

If you want "flexibility in configuring multiple protocols (like ISO
requires)", (another neat slip!) then the greatest variety of network
protocols is in BSD socket stacks.  If you want many choices in TCP or
TP4 vendors, STREAMS best, but if you want many different protocols in
one system and not just TCP and OSI, it's hard to beat the BSD source.


Vernon Schryver    vjs@rhyolite.com

------------------------------

From: jaakola@cc.helsinki.fi
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.motif
Subject: Free Motif GUI and API (clone) for Linux
Date: 6 Aug 94 00:16:38 EET

Slackware 1.something installation docs mention the OI package, which is
some sort of Motif clone. However, when I ftp'd the files in June the OI
files were missing and now the Slackware 2.0 docs don't even mention it!
What has happened to OI? Isn't it freely available any more?

My aim is to have a Motif look-and-feel environment. And after a few
weeks I would like to try developing apps to the Motif API. Is it
possible to achieve these goals free?
--
Juhani Jaakola, jaakola@cc.helsinki.fi

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: michaelw@desaster.student.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Will)
Subject: Re: PCI Video card comparison test ?
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 08:56:58 GMT

cma@sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr (Claude MARTIN) writes:
>I have a Pentium/PCI with a Viper Diamond video card, 
>which I would like to change for another video board.

>1. Could someone give me some advise about a good PCI video card, 
>   supported by Linux, and which enables me to
>   work with my 17" monitor (2 Mb on video card) ?
>   I did not find any comparison test on this subject.

>2. Which of the following chipsets would be the best
>   for my previous given configuration :
>       - Tseng Labs ET400/W32
Not supported in accelerated mode as far as I know.

>       - ATI Mach 32
A fine card - I use the ati-gup-pci with 2M VRAM on my 17"-monitor at 
1152x900x256 at 62Khz/66.5Hz (if my monitor is displaying the right freq.)

The S3-cards should work too, but take care if you have a board with the
buggy saturn-chipset rev. 2 - it might not work very well. 

I suggest reading the PCI-Howto at sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/linux/docs/HOWTO.

Cheers, Michael Will
-- 
. .         Michael Will <michaelw@desaster.student.uni-tuebingen.de> 
 .      cs-student in Tuebingen, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar-System, [...]

------------------------------

From: jaggy@purplet.demon.co.uk (Mike Jagdis)
Subject: Re: WordPerfect for LINUX
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 23:17:00 +0000

* In message <19940804.14D3488.3C3D@beattie.demon.co.uk>,
  Shaune Beattie said:

SB> I haven't got the start of this thread so not quite sure
SB> what it is about.
SB> but a simple question, will wordperfect for unix/x work with
SB> linux/xfree? i presume there is no reason why it shouldn't...

You need the iBCS emulator from tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/ALPHA/ibcs2

                                Mike  
 

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.hp.apps,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps
From: michaelw@desaster.student.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Will)
Subject: Commercial Software available for Linux (was: WABI vs. SoftWindows?)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 09:18:44 GMT

Enough of all this gibberish...

...why not make a list with all available commercial software for linux?

If you know of any, please mail me. I will summarize. 

At the moment I only know of development-stuff like
        Smalltalk/X (available for free for educational use as far as I know)
        Motif

Please contribute via Reply  -  Cheers, Michael Will
-- 
. .         Michael Will <michaelw@desaster.student.uni-tuebingen.de> 
 .      cs-student in Tuebingen, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar-System, [...]

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.apps
From: michaelw@desaster.student.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Will)
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 09:32:44 GMT

tjrc1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Tim Cutts) writes:
>chrisb@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Chris Bitmead) writes:

>Unix is almost *too* configurable.  For experienced users this is a
>boon, but for new users the array of options is bewildering, and
>usually not at all obvious.

>If a Windows user thinks 'how do I do this?' they can just click on
>that friendly word 'Help' in the menu.
Or comfort themselfes with the idea that they cannot do that at all. The 
"window-manager" of ms-windows really kills my nerves each time I am forced
to use that.

>/home/fred$ help
>help: not found
Fault of the systemadministrator, he could install a help-program. I have
a fairly simple helppage coming up when I type help. Besides:
C:\> HELP
COMMAND NOT FOUND

>/home/fred$

>If the shell is bash, they might get the absurdly terse syntax help
>for the common commands, I admit.  This mentions info, so our newbie
>tries it, and gets a screenful of garbage because their TERM variable
>(which they've never heard of), is set to a default that their
>terminal can't cope with.
Fault of the system-admin. You can setup your system properly so it has
the right things in the dotfiles. I add a new user with 
        useradd -m username
and it gets the dotfiles from /etc/skel. 

you have to configure your dos-system correctly too - if you mess up the
autoexec.bat and config.sys (especialy when using quemm386 or something
messy like that) the novice would be troubled too. When I was programming
in Clipper on ms-dos I dumped the attempt to use ms-windows because I had
to reboot at least every hour instead of only every second hour :-)

>There you go.  All this takes 10 minutes of the help desks time, and
>would have been completely unnecessary in DOS, Windows, Mac or OS/2.
>Wait until you have worked on a Help Desk (which I have), and see what
>the users think is most complicated.  I had to give help on DOS,
>Windows, Mac, SunOS, and MVS while I had that job.
That shure is troublesome. But if you give your users a nice tool like
an easy editor (pico which comes with the PINE-package is nice for a 
beginning) you can keep down the complaints. For the casual users which
do not want to mess with computer-grammars because they do not need 
the knowledge very much a good menue will do, too.

>Just think back to when you first sat at a Unix prompt.  I bet you
>were completely at a loss what to do.
Yes. but that was a lousy setup SCO via modem and I had no manuals. 
When I was first looking at a DOS-Prompt I where lost too. 
Unix is more complicated, but the system-administrator can offer so much more.
It is much more stable. 

Cheers, Michael Will
-- 
. .         Michael Will <michaelw@desaster.student.uni-tuebingen.de> 
 .      cs-student in Tuebingen, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar-System, [...]

------------------------------

From: michaelw@desaster.student.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Will)
Subject: Re: WABI vs. SoftWindows?
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 09:39:00 GMT

ericy@cais.cais.com (Eric Youngdale) writes:

>In article <31l8tj$5t2@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
>>Just think back to when you first sat at a Unix prompt.  I bet you
>>were completely at a loss what to do.

>       I remember.  It took me 10 minutes to figure out how to log out.
hehe, me too. I tried logoff, quit, bye, hangup, and finally type an excuse
to the screen that I would now hangup the phone. (I had no idea the sysadmin
could not see anyway) - if I had typed "exit" or "logout" it would have worked,
but anyway. After hanging up the line I get logged out anyway.

I tried every command I knew and nothing worked, so I tried nonsense like
"nn" and whoops - what is that strange pattern on the screen? and how to
get ridd of it again? 

Cheers, Michael Will
-- 
. .         Michael Will <michaelw@desaster.student.uni-tuebingen.de> 
 .      cs-student in Tuebingen, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar-System, [...]

------------------------------

From: keith@ksmith.com (Keith Smith)
Subject: Re: IBSC
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 94 19:45:22 GMT

In article <31njhi$jcu@aurora.engr.latech.edu>,
Alex Ramos <ramos@engr.latech.edu> wrote:
>Mike Jagdis (jaggy@purplet.demon.co.uk), quoted out of context, wrote:
>
>> Not a big deal at all. Get the iBCS emulator from tsx-11.mit.edu
>> /pub/linux/ALPHA/ibcs2, install SCO, SVR4, SVR3, ISC, Wyse V etc. 
>> applications just as you would expect - then run them.
>
>>   It's a *long* time since anyone reported a bug with the emulator (although 
>> I *know* there is some esoteric junk still unimplemented). If it wasn't 
>> having to repsond to the alpha kernel changes it would probably be beta by 
>> now.

It won't run BBx/4
It won't run Uniplex.
It won't run a MicroEMACS port of mine.
It won't run LPI-RPGII

The first guy will buy you a re-boot.
The second just vomits
The Third hangs the keyboard.
Lessee, That about covers all the things I need.. :)

I think I'll wait for the BETA.  BTW I tried both the supplied libc_s
and sco's libc_s...  Wish I had time to help the iBCS folks, Maybe when
it is a little closer.  It did run several test programs I compiled, but
it doesn't work with my SCO ASCII window library (Which ported with a
'make' onto 'native' linux).  Comparing iBCS to Say Linux 0.2, I'd say
it shouldn't be too long before there are some decent binary
compatabilities out there.
-- 
Keith Smith aka Digital Designs                 keith@ksmith.com
5719 Archer Rd.                    Free Usenet News and Internet Mail Services
Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201         All 28K/14K Modems  (910) 423-4216/7389/7391
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...         14K-V.32/28K-V.34/28K-V.34

------------------------------

From: michaelw@desaster.student.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Will)
Subject: Re: How do you read the c.o.l.* groups?
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 09:41:10 GMT

las@light-house.uucp writes:
>: I use nn and the space bar.
when I have a lot of time - me too. but usualy I just go through it scanning
for keywords in the subject like "PCI", "NCR" or whatever I took interest in
the last time I had time :)

Cheers, Michael Will
-- 
. .         Michael Will <michaelw@desaster.student.uni-tuebingen.de> 
 .      cs-student in Tuebingen, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar-System, [...]

------------------------------

From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen)
Subject: Re: QIC-02 Driver
Reply-To: pe1chl@rabo.nl
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 16:42:46 GMT

In <bh.940804214251@spad.eng.auburn.edu> bh@eng.auburn.edu (Brian Hartsfield) writes:

>I have had my Linux stuff down for a while and am now ready to start it back
>up again, but I can't find by QIC-02 driver for Linux I had and can't
>seem to find it again on any of the ftp site.

>Where can I get the QIC-02 driver from?

The QIC-02 driver is now in the standard kernel.

Rob
-- 
=========================================================================
| Rob Janssen                | AMPRnet:   rob@pe1chl.ampr.org           |
| e-mail: pe1chl@rabo.nl     | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU     |
=========================================================================

------------------------------


** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **

The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:

    Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:

    Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
    nic.funet.fi				pub/OS/Linux
    tsx-11.mit.edu				pub/linux
    sunsite.unc.edu				pub/Linux

End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
