Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #376
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Tue, 5 Jul 94 03:13:19 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #376, Volume #2                 Tue, 5 Jul 94 03:13:19 EDT

Contents:
  Re: S3 Support - A bit lacking? (Bob Wilson)
  Re: Where can I get the POSIX standard? (Craig Milo Rogers)
  Re: How do I end a dip/ SLIP session (Frank Lofaro)
  Enscript / mpage available (Tim Bandy)
  How to change the priority level of a process in LINUX? (Z. Ding)
  Re: Where can I get the POSIX standard? (Chris Adams)
  Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing (ddelsig@uoft02.utoledo.edu)
  Re: Where can I get the POSIX standard? (Frank Lofaro)
  Re: Does PPP on Linux Route TCP/IP? (Johannes Stille)
  Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2) (Matt Austern)
  kill -9 ... NOT!! (James Logajan)
  Running Multiple SLIP Connections, One Machine (Eric Poole)
  Re: A sample of what's wrong with OS/2 TCP/IP (Eric Danforth Mudama)
  Re: How to change the priority level of a process in LINUX? (Claude Bocage)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bwilson@netcom.com (Bob Wilson)
Subject: Re: S3 Support - A bit lacking?
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 02:12:17 GMT

All you need to do is comment out jne :

of1280: cld
        lea     si,idf1280      ! Check for Orchid F1280 (dingbat@diku.dk)
        mov     di,#0x10a       ! id string is at c000:010a
        mov     cx,#0x21        ! length
        repe
        cmpsb
!       jne     nf1280

Brian Wellington (bwelling@wam.umd.edu) wrote:
: In article <2u6b9h$bke@serveur.cribx1.u-bordeaux.fr>,
: Niedner <niedner@petrus.cribx1.u-bordeaux.fr> wrote:
: >Brian Wellington (bwelling@wam.umd.edu) wrote:
: >
: >: >Could you share what you did, as my couple of hours playing with the
: >: >VGA clock registers failed to get me anthing other than standard VGA
: >: >with my S3 based Spea/V7 Mirage. I only have 40 Mbytes for Linux, so
: >: >rebuilding anything large may be a bit of a problem.
: >
: >: I have an Orchid Fahrenheit 1280 Plus/VLB, and was able to get 132x43 by
: >: editing setup.S, only changing the string searched for in BIOS, it's
: >: length and location (got those from DOSEMU getrom), and modified the
: >: Orchid Fahrenheit 1280 values.  It works in text mode, and is fine with
: >: X, but svgalib programs don't work (the screen has a bunch of black
: >: vertical columns, and dosemu really screws up when it's quit, and there's
: >: no way to fix it.   Any ideas?
: >
: >: Brian
: >
: >So, well, unfotunately - as a newbie - i wasn't able to learn anything from
: >your words... they seem to be mysetrious to me. But: i do have the same
: >problem (17" Monitor, S3 Board (miro 8s)). So please, please, could you
: >post a more _precise_ description of what you did, and perhaps add some 
: >hints what to change for other graphic boards ... I think anyone involved 
: >in this thread would be thankful.
: >
: >Thanks a lot in advance, Sven
: >

: If you have dosemu, use getrom to dump video bios to a file.
: Find the text string identifying the card, its offset in the file, and
: its length.  In /usr/src/linux/boot/setup.S, substitute these values for
: that of another card (such as a #9 GXE or Orchid Fahrenheit).  The code
: is commented, but remember to convert the values to hex.  The video modes
: must be added to the list near the bottom of the file, as do the 
: resolutions (this is also commented).  Then recompile the kernel and tell lilo
: to ask for a video mode, and it should work.

: Good luck...
: Brian


------------------------------

From: rogers@drax.isi.edu (Craig Milo Rogers)
Subject: Re: Where can I get the POSIX standard?
Date: 4 Jul 1994 13:44:42 -0700

In article <CFLATTER.94Jun30101025@laphroaig.nrao.edu> cflatter@laphroaig.nrao.edu (Chris Flatters) writes:
>The IEEE is responsible for the POSIX suite of standards.  The IEEE is an
>accredited national standards body and so the POSIX standards that have
>been approved so far are {\it de jure} standards and are not proprietary.
>If you want a copy, though, you will have to pay for one (the
>comp.standards.unix FAQ should have the necessary details).

[Note: I am not a lawyer, and the following does not constitute legal advice.]

        If the IEEE asserts the exclusive right to manufacture and
sell copies of its standards documents, ipso facto they are
proprietary standards, although they may not assert any proprietary
interest in implementations of the standard.  In contrast, the IETF
encourages the reproduction of its standards documents, thus IETF
standards are non-proprietary.  For-profit software vendors often have
proprietary standards and proprietary implementations.

        One can argue that since IEEE is a public body, its standards
should not be considered "proprietary".  However, if the IEEE does not
place its standards in the public domain, and in fact extracts income
from their publication in excess of reproduction costs, then it is
treating the standards as a kind of government-owned private property
instead of a public commons, and the proprietary designation is
applicable.

        Conclusion: it is perfectly correct and appropriate to refer
to POSIX as a propriatary standard so long as its issuing (owning)
organization limits reproduction of the standard.

                                        Craig Milo Rogers

------------------------------

From: ftlofaro@unlv.edu (Frank Lofaro)
Subject: Re: How do I end a dip/ SLIP session
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 02:42:45 GMT

In article <terryd.773372336@extro> terryd@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Terry Dawson) writes:
>imr@muppet.bt.co.uk (Ian M. Robertson) writes:
>
>>This may be obvious but i cant find it - I run a SLIP connection using dip. How do
>>I hang up the connection ?? . I ve tried killing the dip process but the line remains
>>active, I ve tried starting another dip like it says in some FAQ but the second dip
>>bombs out when it tries to set the port !. So far my ony success has been to remove the phone 
>>cable !!. 
>
>Either 'dip -k', or 'kill -9 <pid>' where pid is the process id (from 'ps')
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT KILL -9!

THAT CAN HOSE YOUR SERIAL PORT! AND/OR YOUR NETWORK ROUTING/INTERFACE TABLES!

Use kill or kill -1, only use kill -9 if you must!

(Sorry for shouting, but I and many others have seen this potentially 
dangerous advice many times, some quite recently. kill -9 gives a process 
NO oportunity to clean up. A SLIP connect needs a lot of cleanup. Such 
as killing the interface and switching the tty out of SLIP discipline. 
Without it, you can get really hosed.)

>of the running dip.
>
>Terry
>
>-- 
>--- Terry Dawson, terryd@extro.ucc.su.oz.au



------------------------------

From: timn8r@piranha.micro.umn.edu (Tim Bandy)
Subject: Enscript / mpage available
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 02:59:01 GMT

Is there a utility such as enscript or mpage to print multiple pages
on a single sheet of paper?  I have looked on several ftp sites for
each of these, but no such luck.  Anyone else interested?  I might
be persuaded to write one if no such utility exists.  I know that
enscript generates postscript code, so that much shouldn't be too
hard...

Tim Bandy

--
Tim Bandy (timn8r@mermaid.micro.umn.edu)
University of Minnesota
If you like my opionions, you may purchase them from me at cost + 5%

------------------------------

From: ding2@fulcrum.me.rochester.edu (Z. Ding)
Subject: How to change the priority level of a process in LINUX?
Date: 4 Jul 1994 23:55:17 -0400

Hi, Could someone tell me how to change the running priority level
of a process in the LINUX? 

Thank you.


John Ding

ding@me.rochester.edu



------------------------------

From: racerx@vespucci.iquest.com (Chris Adams)
Subject: Re: Where can I get the POSIX standard?
Date: 4 Jul 1994 23:16:34 -0500

In article <2v9sbq$34d@drax.isi.edu>,
Craig Milo Rogers <rogers@drax.isi.edu> wrote:
>       If the IEEE asserts the exclusive right to manufacture and
>sell copies of its standards documents, ipso facto they are
>proprietary standards, although they may not assert any proprietary

Uhm, do you have an ANSI compatible terminal?  That "standard" is also
generally available, at a price, from the standards body.  You can buy
it from other places, but you can also go to the bookstore and find a
book about POSIX.
-- 
Chris Adams
racerx@iquest.com
United States Space Academy Simulations Director and Trainer
"With friends like these, who needs halucinations?" - Buddy, 'Night Court'

------------------------------

From: ddelsig@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Subject: Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 19:07:18 GMT

In Article <9407040513.04@rmkhome.com>
rmk@rmkhome.com (Rick Kelly) writes:
>mibo@isi026.isi.kfa-juelich.de wrote:
>: In <Yi4QOjK00WB_8CTHYv@andrew.cmu.edu>, professor+@CMU.EDU (Leo L Turetsky) writes:
>: >Simple equation:  Linux = $0.00 < OS/2 = $100.00.
>
>: Maybe too simple. What does your university pay for Usenet access? To be fair
>: one should compare real cost. 
>
>: Linux on CD \approx DM 80.00 < OS/2 on CD = DM 99.00. The relation still holds,
>: but the difference is smaller.
>
>Actually, installing Linux from a CD = cost of Linux CD + cost of CDROM drive.
>
>This could end up being anywhere from $250 to $500.
>
>The cost of Linux on floppies is whatever your employer/school pays for
>net access plus whatever they paid you in terms of lost productivity.

HELLO!  I've been watching this thread with some amusement, and have seen some
bad logic used on both sides of the argument, but this one takes the cake!
I suppose next we will have to take into account how much the computer costs
us, for goodness sake!  I mean, you can't load linux without a computer.  And
how about the electric bills...

Look, nobody is going to go out and buy a CD-ROM drive just so they can install
linux.  Most people who will use this method either already have a CD drive, or
have many other uses for the drive as well.  It's like saying we must take into
account how much my car costs because I drove out to Kustom Komputers to buy
OS/2.  Irrelevant.  And the cost of net access is a sunk cost as well.  Whether
or not I'm downloading 2 Gig of linux apps, my university is paying.  And I'm
paying the same fees to the U. whether I get linux off the net or I use OS/2
I bought from a store.

It really is an exercise in futility to try and convince a reasonably 
intelligent person that the cost of linux is really pretty close to that of
OS/2.  It's free if you've got net access.  It's very cheap if you've got
access to a CD-ROM drive.  It's free if you've got a friend who has an 
installation.  Whether or not OS/2 is far superior, a little better, or worse
than linux in one respect or another is clearly the object of some debate.  The
fact that OS/2 costs considerably more than linux is not.

>
>-- 
>
>Rick Kelly  rmk@rmkhome.com  rmk@bedford.progress.com

Dave
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
     _/_/_/_/     _/_/        _/_/   _/_/_/_/       David M. Del Signore
      _/    _/     _/_/    _/_/       _/    _/      University of Toledo
     _/     _/    _/ _/  _/ _/       _/     _/          Toledo, Ohio
    _/     _/    _/  _/_/  _/       _/     _/ 
   _/    _/     _/   _/   _/       _/    _/      ddelsig@uoft02.utoledo.edu
_/_/_/_/     _/_/        _/_/   _/_/_/_/      suprdave@esserv01.eng.utoledo.edu
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````


------------------------------

From: ftlofaro@unlv.edu (Frank Lofaro)
Subject: Re: Where can I get the POSIX standard?
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 04:22:24 GMT

In article <2v9sbq$34d@drax.isi.edu> rogers@drax.isi.edu (Craig Milo Rogers) writes:
>In article <CFLATTER.94Jun30101025@laphroaig.nrao.edu> cflatter@laphroaig.nrao.edu (Chris Flatters) writes:
>>The IEEE is responsible for the POSIX suite of standards.  The IEEE is an
>>accredited national standards body and so the POSIX standards that have
>>been approved so far are {\it de jure} standards and are not proprietary.
>>If you want a copy, though, you will have to pay for one (the
>>comp.standards.unix FAQ should have the necessary details).
>
>[Note: I am not a lawyer, and the following does not constitute legal advice.]
>
>       If the IEEE asserts the exclusive right to manufacture and
>sell copies of its standards documents, ipso facto they are
>proprietary standards, although they may not assert any proprietary
>interest in implementations of the standard.  In contrast, the IETF
>encourages the reproduction of its standards documents, thus IETF
>standards are non-proprietary.  For-profit software vendors often have
>proprietary standards and proprietary implementations.
>
>       One can argue that since IEEE is a public body, its standards
>should not be considered "proprietary".  However, if the IEEE does not
>place its standards in the public domain, and in fact extracts income
>from their publication in excess of reproduction costs, then it is
>treating the standards as a kind of government-owned private property
>instead of a public commons, and the proprietary designation is
>applicable.
>
>       Conclusion: it is perfectly correct and appropriate to refer
>to POSIX as a propriatary standard so long as its issuing (owning)
>organization limits reproduction of the standard.
>
>                                       Craig Milo Rogers

But is it necessarily true that copying and redistributing the POSIX 
standard is illegal? The Linux CD-ROMs are not free, but you can 
copy them legally.

Can someone confirm that it either is legal or that it is illegal to 
copy the POSIX standard?

If it indeed is illegal (I would hope they aren't that fascist) would 
a complete paraphrase of it be illegal too?

Heck, I know of a few scanners and OCR machines, getting the POSIX 
standard scanned in is not an impossibility.

Please tell me if I would get sued, fined or sentenced to prison for 
doing such and posting it to an anonymous FTP site.



------------------------------

From: johannes@titan.westfalen.de (Johannes Stille)
Subject: Re: Does PPP on Linux Route TCP/IP?
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 12:13:21 GMT

In article <2v2l2f$2cv@noc1.mid.net> ssprengel@news.mid.net (Steve Sprengel - FEF) writes:
>I am also trying to get my slip-connected Linux box to route packets to
>and from our ethernet, with little success.      
>
>From various articles, I understand there are several conditions:
>
>1)  A kernel 1.1.20 or higher?  I have 1.1.23.

Not really necessary. I don't know what is needed for PPP, but with
SLIP, you could use a Linux machine as gateway to the outside world
since way before 1.0.

>2)  Packet forwarding turned on?  Yes.
>3)  My class-C ethternet registered with Internic?  Yes.
>
>However, there's another condition I'm suspecting must be the case...
>
>4)  Does the IP address given my machine every time I dial up my provider
>    have to be a DIFFERENT NETWORK than the rest of my ethernet? 

No.

>    For sake of discussion, let's say my registered class-C network address
>    is AAA.BBB.CCC.0, and the machines on my ethernet are AAA.BBB.CCC.10,
>    AAA.BBB.CCC.20, etc.  My concern is that my SLIP provider assigns me
>    an address of AAA.BBB.CCC.1 when I dial up, which is on the SAME NETWORK
>    as the rest of my ethernet.

This is a sensible solution.

[...]
>
>    Are things different in Linux/Unix/TCP/IP that magically allows two 
>    interface cards (a modem and a 3c509 in my case) to be routed between
>    but still have the same network address?  I suspect not, but would like
>    a definitive answer one way or the other.
[...]

Yes.
The Linux routing table contains references to the devices to use for
the routes. So your machine could even use the very same IP address for
both the Ethernet and the SLIP/PPP interface. BTW, at least for SLIP,
interface addresses don't really matter; I'm not sure about PPP.


[ For information only, if you want to understand things - this
paragraph should *not* be taken as advice how to actually set up things:
 You could use AAA.BBB.CCC.99 for your local SLIP interface and 1.1.1.1
as remote SLIP address and everything would work fine. The real rules
are: Your local SLIP address must be one of the addresses that are
assigned to you by the nic or whoever and routed to you by your
provider. The remote address doesn't matter at all as long as you have a
default route pointing to the SLIP device, only it must not be one of
your local addresses. ]



But you don't mention an important condition that just happens to be
fulfilled in you case:

Your SLIP/PPP provider MUST ROUTE your WHOLE registered class C network
over you SLIP/PPP link, and must not only route to the machine that is
directly connected to the link. If your provider tells you to use
routed for this, run a recent gated version instead.

        Johannes

------------------------------

From: matt@physics16.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2)
Date: 05 Jul 1994 05:52:09 GMT
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu

In article <Qi5Qlci00YUnQBTeU3@andrew.cmu.edu> Leo L Turetsky <professor+@CMU.EDU> writes:

> Why you like
> OS/2 really has no point in this argument. We are comparing the overall
> OS, not your uses of it.

I don't quite understand this comment.  How can you compare operating
systems without comparing their uses?  After all, operating systems
(and computers, for that matter) only exist so that people can do
things with them.  It's crucial to ask whether an operating system is
well suited to the tasks that people want to use it for.  If it is,
then it's a good operating system; if it isn't, then it's a bad
operating system.  It's really that simple.

Which, however, brings me to...

>  I really hate people who post angelic messages
> like this (they're all great, why all the fuss?) because all it is, is
> poorly designed flamebait.

I certainly hope I didn't convey the impression either that I thought
all operating systems are good (my actual opinion is closer to the 
opposite: every operating system I've seen has some very annoying
limits or misfeatures in one way or another), or that the choice of
an operating system is irrelevant.

My real opinion is that which operating system you should use depends
on what you want to do with it.  For my purposes, I think the best
choice is OS/2.  For other purposes, I'd use Linux instead.  (In fact,
OS/2 and Linux were the only operating systems I seriously considered
for my home system.)  And there are even some people out there,
strange as it may seem to some of us, whose needs are best served
by Windows 3.1.

"Angelic"?  I prefer to think of it as pragmatic: you choose the best
tool for the job, and you don't waste time pretending that every job
should be performed with the same tool.
--
       Matt Austern                       "Se non e vero, e ben trovato"

------------------------------

From: jamesl@jamesl.slip.netcom.com (James Logajan)
Subject: kill -9 ... NOT!!
Reply-To: jamesl@jamesl.slip.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 05:57:58 GMT

In article <1994Jul5.024245.15247@unlv.edu>, ftlofaro@unlv.edu (Frank Lofaro) writes:
> In article <terryd.773372336@extro> terryd@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Terry Dawson) writes:
> >imr@muppet.bt.co.uk (Ian M. Robertson) writes:
> >
> >>This may be obvious but i cant find it - I run a SLIP connection using dip. How do
> >>I hang up the connection ?? . I ve tried killing the dip process but the line remains
> >>active, I ve tried starting another dip like it says in some FAQ but the second dip
> >>bombs out when it tries to set the port !. So far my ony success has been to remove the phone 
> >>cable !!. 
> >
> >Either 'dip -k', or 'kill -9 <pid>' where pid is the process id (from 'ps')
>                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> NOT KILL -9!
> 
> THAT CAN HOSE YOUR SERIAL PORT! AND/OR YOUR NETWORK ROUTING/INTERFACE TABLES!
> 
> Use kill or kill -1, only use kill -9 if you must!
> 
> (Sorry for shouting, but I and many others have seen this potentially 
> dangerous advice many times, some quite recently. kill -9 gives a process 
> NO oportunity to clean up. A SLIP connect needs a lot of cleanup. Such 
> as killing the interface and switching the tty out of SLIP discipline. 
> Without it, you can get really hosed.)
> 

AGREED! I have also seen this very bad advice posted. NEVER user kill -9
on any process UNLESS IT REFUSES TO DIE OR IT IS AN EMERGENCY! Most daemons
and utilities trap the default kill signal (SIGTERM) and try to do
cleanup work before exiting. This is just general good advice for terminating
ANY program.

As a side note, attempting to kill a zombie process is a futile effort. If you
must, find its parent and kill it. That should clear up the zombie(s). You
should never see a zombie process listed that has parent process 1 (unless
the kernel has a bug :-)) [The reason is left as an exercise for the student.]


------------------------------

From: epoole@leotech.mv.com (Eric Poole)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Running Multiple SLIP Connections, One Machine
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 94 05:10:14 GMT
Reply-To: epoole@scoot.netis.com

Anyone know if it's possible to run multiple SLIP connections on one
machine?  If I have, say, 8 dial-in lines accessing the Internet
through one V.Fast SLIP line, that's really asking a lot even from a
V.Fast.  However, I can buy two V.Fast SLIP connections for way less
than the cost of a single 56K, so if I could get the system to sort of
share the load across two SLIP connections I'd be in good shape.

I've checked the NET-2-HOWTO and found nothing.  Any responses
appreciated, either here or via e-mail to epoole@scoot.netis.com, and
I'll summarize e-mailed responses.

 . . . . . ep


------------------------------

From: edmudama@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Eric Danforth Mudama)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: A sample of what's wrong with OS/2 TCP/IP
Date: 5 Jul 1994 06:39:43 GMT

In article <1994Jul4.145308.12349@uk.ac.swan.pyr> iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox) writes:
>In article <CsAIsz.IG9@cc.umontreal.ca> southiea@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Southiere Alain) writes:
>>   Just a point here. Does this linux distribution comes with a GUI ?
>>A friend of mine tried Linux a while back and with Xwindow, it was
>>near 80 mb ! (at least, that what he told me). That probably
>
>Yes but the 80Mb of Linux material includes about 10 compilers, Tek, a vast
>array of support tools and editors. If you add these to OS/2 you'll end with
>a much larger OS/2 package than 80Mb 8)

10 Compilers?  What would you possible need 10 compilers for?  Or even 5?
And Tek?  Tek is too arcane to be used by most mortals.  Also, what "vast
array" of editors are you refering too?  VI and EMACS?  What a prize.  I have
the OS/2 version of EMACS and it is only a few megs, plus Brief for OS/2.
These, coupled with EPM meet all of my editor needs.

One big difference between Unix and DOS is the availability of Word
Processors.  The first decent _Word Processor_ for UN*X that I have seen is
FrameMaker, which MIT just licensed for all of the campus workstations.
But, I don't believe a version exists for Linux, and Frame certainly wouldn't
give you the source to recompile... :-)

The fact that OS/2 provides the capability for me to run Word, plus all of
the EMX ported GNU apps makes it a superior operating system in my opinion.

Currently, my OS/2 system is about 100Mb, and this includes OS/2, TCP/IP+
NFS+X11R5, Brief, Emacs, GCC, MMOS/2, Crosstalk, Word, and a couple of
other things.  Quite modest, in my opinion.


-- 
_______________________________________________
Eric Danforth Mudama    Orion Instruments, Inc.
Technical Staff         Menlo Park, CA  94025
edmudama@mit.edu        (415) 327-8800

------------------------------

From: bocage@speedy.supelec.fr (Claude Bocage)
Subject: Re: How to change the priority level of a process in LINUX?
Date: 5 Jul 1994 06:54:20 GMT
Reply-To: bocage@speedy.supelec.fr (Claude Bocage)


use "nice"

Claude.

------------------------------


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