Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #371
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Mon, 4 Jul 94 03:13:10 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #371, Volume #2                 Mon, 4 Jul 94 03:13:10 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Adaptec AHA 1522A (Paul Stoffregen)
  Re: Only 7000 Linux boxes, Re: Multiport Bored ... (Bill Hogan)
  Re: AMD 486 66/2, ANy known probems (Michael Finger)
  HTML Linux stuff? (Mark Metson)
  Re: Compressed linux on CD??? (John Bryan)
  Linux Counter thoughts (John Bryan)
  Re: DOOM For X? (news@uncc.edu)
  Re: Can a DOS virus harm my linux partition? (Dmitry Irtegov)
  Re: [term] Boo-hoo! (Eric J. Schwertfeger)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: paul@holmes.ece.orst.edu (Paul Stoffregen)
Subject: Re: Adaptec AHA 1522A
Date: 4 Jul 1994 03:46:06 GMT

In article <1994Jul2.195321.1197@light-house.uucp>,
 <whome!light-house!las@planix.com> wrote:

>Sorry if this is an F.A.Q., but is the AHA-1522A supported under Linux?
>
>It is the cheapest SCSI I can lay my hands on at the moment, and I'd like
>to make sure it works fine.

Disclaimer: This was my experience.  Your milage may vary.

I installed linux on a system with the cheapo adaptec 152x or somesuch.
It is supported, but there was no ROM on the card, so the kernel
didn't detect it.  Not sure which model it was, but it was the cheapest!

In other words, my experience is that it will work, but not right out
of the box.  You've got to pass some parameters to the kernel before
it starts (which the slackware disks let you do).  To do this, you've
got to read the SCSI.howto (which isn't all that user-friendly, but
it's a heck of a lot better than what I'd be able to write).

Once you get it installed, it won't recognize the card when it
boots (hope your main bootable hard drive isn't scsi), so you've
got to use the floppy to boot, typing the cryptic parameters
as well as something such as root=/dev/sda1 or somesuch until
you figure out how to get lilo to do this automagically, which
again isn't documented in the most desirable means for new users.

I'm fairly good with man pages, cyrptic documentation (lilo & scsi),
and I recall spending only a couple hours to figure this out,
but I doubt many users new to linux/unix would solve this problem.

If you get stuck, you could always send me some e-mail (paul@ece.orst.edu),
though I should warn you that the system in question is now back
to only MS-DOS until about October or so, at which time I'll 
probably have to resolve this problem once again.  I'll bet I
threw out the three pages of scribbled notes I made during this process.

------------------------------

From: bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan)
Subject: Re: Only 7000 Linux boxes, Re: Multiport Bored ...
Date: 2 Jul 1994 00:32:00 -0700

David H Dennis (dhd@netcom.com) wrote:
: It seems to me that the people who say that Linux drivers are unlikely to
: be made on pure commercial grounds are unlikely to be correct.  They are
: confusing DRIVERS with PRODUCTS.  

: If I could reasonably project 100 additional purchases of my $ 100 [wholesale]
: product, that would give me $ 10,000 in additional sales.  With a 50% margin
: on costs, that would be a $ 5,000 additional profit.  If this just required
: the release of information to Linux people and an hour or so of clarifications,
: I'd say this would make a lot of sense.  If I wanted to do my own driver
: and worked a week or two to do it, I'd probably say that I roughly broke
: even.  I think most real-world companies would consider the investment so
: minimal that supporting Linux would be worth a shot.

: If you asked this company to develop a special PRODUCT for Linux, they
: would - quite rightly - laugh in your face.  But asking them to support
: Linux isn't that costly or unreasonable.

: D

  Yes!

  And this is also true at the system-integration level.

  I know a guy who sells systems for one of the best PC system vendors
around who is chafing at the bit to be in a position to be able to put a
"Linux Inside" sticker in their ads! 

  I am shopping around for my next sytem, and I was attracted to this
particular vendor because I was really impressed by the amount of
technical info they pack into their ads, so I just called them one day and
asked them if they sold Linux systems. 

  "Wow!", the guy says, "Linux! I sure wish we did! I hear all kinds of good 
things about Linux and more and more people are asking me that question, 
but..."

  So, we get into a long conversation.

  He agrees that the rapidly-increasing demand for Linux will present them
with an opportunity to increase the amount of hardware they sell per unit
time at next to no associated cost to them if he will take it upon himself
to install Linux (which he says he has been itching to do anyway) on a
platform that makes sense for them to sell. 

  But to do that he needs information -- and he needs in a form that he can 
use.

  I put a selection of Linux FAQ's and HOWTO's on a floppy and mail it to
him. 

  (I think that is interesting: the FAQ's and HOWTO's are not only a key
part of the the Linux/user interface, they may become at an even more
important part of the vendor/Linux interface.)

  I will call him back pretty soon (I still don't know what I want and I
figure it should take him about as long to get his bearings on Linux as it
took me -- i.e., since neither one of us had Unix experience, a couple of 
months). 

  I urge people to do this at all levels.

  You want to know if X runs on Linux?

  Call X, Inc. and explain to them that you are dying to buy an X but you
have to be sure it runs on Linux. 

  If it does, thank them, buy it, and make sure you write down "Linux" 
where it says "system" on the registration card.

  If it doesn't, just say "Oh, that's too bad, maybe you should think 
about that, bye-bye!".

  I think you will be surprised how interested people are in finding new 
markets for their products.

  I agree with Dennis, this is definitely a win-win proposition.

  Bill
  
-- 
  Bill Hogan
{echo "Subject: get bhogan@crl.com" | mail pgp-public-keys@pgp.mit.edu}

------------------------------

From: mfinger@gill.micro.umn.edu (Michael Finger)
Subject: Re: AMD 486 66/2, ANy known probems
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 04:36:22 GMT

In article <1994Jul1.223715.859@ritz.equinox.gen.nz> grantma@ritz.equinox.gen.nz (Matthew Grant) writes:
>Hi there,
>
>This question should be in the help group, but I would like to see a ggod
>discussion on these chips.  I know they are mentioned in the hardware howto,
>but I really want to push the chip, and the cost of the equivalent Intel
>part is expensive.
>
>I know to steer clear of early AMD 486dx/40s, but is there any problems with
>the 486DX 66/2?  I have just heard there is a register set bug with all AMD
>chips.  Are there any problems with Bus masters lkie the AHA 1542B?  

  I do not use any SCSI controllers, but my AMD 486 DX2/66 works like a champ,
  for a lot less then and Intel ones.  So as far as the AMD chips, I have never
  had a problem, for both a 386 dx/40 and a 486 dx2/66.

> 
>I have not seen any thing mentioned in the newsgroups about AMD processors,
>so I want to make sure that they work 100% with Linux.  My uptimes with my
>486DLC have run to 12 days, but it refuses to work with the Adaptec.
>

  I don't run my box continuously, but have for 8-12 hours doing things
  ranging from compiles (kernel and other) and xv, with no probs.

>Cheers,
>
>Matthew
>-- 
>    _/  _/   __/   _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/  _/  _/_/  _/  _/     Matthew A. Grant
>   _/_/_/  _/  _/   _/     _/   _/_ _/  _/_   _/  _/    1 Domain Tce, Chch. NZ.
>  _/  _/  _/_/_/   _/     _/   _/_/_/  _/    _/_/_/   (03) 338-4287
> _/  _/  _/  _/   _/     _/   _/  _/  _/_/  _/  _/  grantma@ritz.equinox.gen.nz      

Later,
Mike

------------------------------

From: gpurdy@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Mark Metson)
Subject: HTML Linux stuff?
Date: 4 Jul 1994 01:35:22 -0300
Reply-To: gpurdy@fox.nstn.ns.ca

Does anyone know of HTML documents relating to Linux? I am thinking of doing
up hyper-media version of the GNU license, what-is-Linux, how to get Linux,
stuff like that; maybe with builtin links to FTP-able versions so someone
could get right into setting up linux from WWW. Any such docs already around?

Blessed Be. -MarkM-

--
Mark Metson              How many mystics does it take to bring Peace on Earth?
gpurdy@fox.nstn.ns.ca    Only one - but each one has to do it for themself.....
===============================================================================
This posting is 'software for wetware' placed under version 2 of the GNU public
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===============================================================================

------------------------------

From: jhonsrid@drealm.drealm.org (John Bryan)
Subject: Re: Compressed linux on CD???
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 22:34:37 +0000

Steve DuChene (s0017210@cc.ysu.edu) wrote:
: Patrick J. Volkerding (gonzo@magnet.mednet.net) wrote:
: : In article <16d.30061994.0405.0NCB789E@timber.com>,
: :  <christina.morwood@timber.com> wrote:
: : >I was wondering if people would be interested in purchasing a CD
: : >(packed with 600 megs worth of shareware) that also contained a FULL
: : >compressed version of Linux? I believe the distribution is
: : >Slackware, but I'll verify that first.  I receive any updates
: : >made for this distribution directly from the author via satellite.

Hmm, could this possibly be the same Christina that was involved in the JANA
thing?

Worth thinking about :-)

------------------------------

From: jhonsrid@drealm.drealm.org (John Bryan)
Subject: Linux Counter thoughts
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 22:21:55 +0000

Looking at what certain companies have said about the popularity of
linux based on the 'only true' user numbers (the linux counter),
it seems to me that the counter, - although a good idea is now doing 
more harm than good by itself. It seems that it is all too easy for 
potential commercial or shareware software developers to just say 'Oh 
no, there are only 7000 linux users, we can't develop for that size 
market', than phone Infomagic, Morse, Yggrassil etc and ask how many 
linux cd's they have sold. It is reasonable to assume that many people 
who buy cd's are upgrading their systems, some use net access and more 
have neither cd drives or net access and rely on sneakernet, but the 
numbers of cds sold is still *massively* more than the number of people 
on the linux counter.
 
I propose then, a cd counter to be posted with the linux counter, and that
they both be posted in linux.announce. Simple sales numbers from the linux 
cd vendors would suffice. The way I see it, no-one could really be 
disadvantaged from this. The vendors would begin to sell more copies as 
users rise and interest grows. The big companies get their cash, the end 
users get commercial software if they want it and still have a huge range 
of software if they don't. With the current interest in running sco binaries 
under emulation, there is little doubt that people *want* Wordperfect for
Linux, and any company that could port a wysiwyg word processor at a
reasonable price could make a killing.
 
Whenever there is a message saying "Please register your linux box",
then are tens of replies saying "How do I register?". This is one 
problem, but much larger than this is the fact that there are many 
times as many people using linux with no access to the net than there 
are on it. I cite me as an example. 
 
I have no ftp access, only mail and news, and first got linux from 
a bbs, (this was an early 0.99). When I learned that there were many 
people using linux I started reading the linux news groups. I learned 
of more bbs's in England that carried linux, - for instance Purple 
Tentacle, - who produce quite a good free distribution themselves. Now, 
I know 5 people (that I can count offhand,) who I introduced to linux, 
who run it regularly, (more often than another os) and have no net 
access. Three of these people have cdrom drives, and these three all 
have linux cds. However, the other two don't, and sneakernet is the way 
we pass new kernels, packages, patches etc around.
 
What I am trying to say is Linux *does* have an unknown userbase, and
probably will until someone with money does a questionnaire for a 
representative cross-section of the computer literate population. Even 
THEN only a single country will have been quantified. Instead of quoting 
our 'rock hard' figure of 7000, why can't we just say "40,000 linux 
cd's have been sold in the last year" or whatever the figure is.
 
If anyone thinks this is a negative message, - sure, go ahead, but
I am trying to help, and this has been bugging me for weeks. I 
suppose I could produce a usercount based on numbers of cds sold by the 
various linux cd vendors if anyone wanted me to and the companies would 
give me the information. Another thing that *might* help would be one 
simple question when buying a linux cd. "Have you purchased a linux cd 
before sir/madam?" If the cd companies got together, they could produce 
numbers which, although STILL not the whole truth, would be both more 
accurate and as close to the real truth it is possible to get with a free
operating system like Linux. How many users really is what still counts 
when wondering whether to develop software a the system. 
 
I don't want this message to produce unnecessary heat, but if something
constructive comes out of this despite all the flame which this is 
undoubtably going to get, then I would be very pleased.
 
Anyway, thank you everybody who made linux what it is today, may it remain 
free forever and happy third birthday, (for lack of any better date.) Cheers.



------------------------------

From: news@uncc.edu
Subject: Re: DOOM For X?
Date: 4 Jul 1994 01:25:23 -0400

In article <1994Jul3.181714.63189@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu>,
Jean Liddle <jliddle@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu> wrote:
>Unlikley.  This wouldn't be id's style, to pander to Microsoft;s
>Monopolistic practices.  

What does this have to do with porting DOOM to an extremely high-volume
platform?  A wise man once said... "Ethics are one thing.  Money is 
something else altogether..."

>Their organization is quite democratic,
>and appears to lean heavilly toward the hacker ethic.  

I will grant you this.  Refer to the CGW article on DOOM II: Hell on Earth.

>They have
>vowed never to do work for a well know Japanese video game giant
>because of the way Wolfenstein 3d was mutilated.  I suspect they
>have the integrity to tell Microsoft where to go if they were so
>foolish as to try and disallow Id to port their own software to the
>platforms of their choice.

Where did the conspiracy theory creep in?  In no previous posting was
it suggested that MS was preempting DOOM for any other platform; the
remarkably higher volumes involved in the Win market make it more 
attractive, that's all.  You've seen too many Oliver Stone political
movies.

[interesting theory on WinDOOM wad incompatibility deleted]
>Again, while easy enough to do I suppose, this doesn't really seem like
>Id's style.  I would be very surprised (and disappointed) if they went
>this route.
>
>Perhaps someone from Id would care to comment / clarify on all of these
>rumours flying around?

Jean, if you had seen the appropriate issue of PCWeek, or had gone
to COMDEX Spring-Atlanta (I went... it was amazing) you would have
seen either the screenshots or the demo in action.  Apparently, MS
sent several top-notch programmers over to iD with a beta copy of
their WinG graphics library.  It essentially allows for an off-screen
image build into a buffer, then a very-high-speed blit into the
appropriate display area through a fast scaling routine.  It works.

In addition to the Jaguar port of DOOM, the Win project is apparently
moving beyond the tech-demo stage.  The Linux port is reportedly a
pet (i.e. low-priority) project of an unnamed iD staff member.

Trevor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trevor A. Fiatal------------------------Computer Engineering, UNC-Charlotte
tafiatal@uncc.edu-------------------Project Mosaic PC Network Administrator
"System error: Volume /earth is full.  Please delete anyone you can."

------------------------------

From: fat@cnit.nsk.su (Dmitry Irtegov)
Subject: Re: Can a DOS virus harm my linux partition?
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 05:50:13 GMT

In article <dhdCs8vu9.8qr@netcom.com> dhd@netcom.com (David H Dennis) writes:

>I believe that DOS and Linux partitions are considered separate drives by
>the operating system, so unless the virus called the hardware directly it
>would not be able to tamper with Linux data; the OS would not be able to "see"
>it.

There are many boot viruses, that do "raw" disk access via BIOS.
Many of these viruses copy themselves to boot sector, and save original
boot sector somewhere in data section of the disk. Some of them also mark
saved boot sector as bad in the FAT's.

I easy can imagine a stupid virus of this kind, than doesn't check partition
type. On DOS partitions it will work OK; on UNIX or OS/2 HPFS it will
destroy system data.

Also, master boot viruses, a la Mikelangelo, can do harm to partition 
structure. Once in the past we've used DOS and ISC UNIX on same HD drive, 
switching them by fdisk. Somebody (I still have no idea, who would be he/
she) systematically infected this computer by Mikelangelo. Every time we 
founded it very easy: when you switch from DOS to UNIX, virus boots DOS 
again. 

You see: fdisk changes "faked" copy of partition table, given by virus, but 
virus boots system according to it's own copy of the table. 

>A virus that called the hardware directly would be rather dysfunctional
>due to the wide variety of hardware used on PCs (SCSI versus IDE drives,
>for example).  You'd have to have some particular grudge against people
>who used DOS and another operating system on one computer to want to
>write such a virus.

You don't need to access raw disk via hardware. In real mode you easy can do 
it via BIOS. Remember, DOS isn't an "Operating System", it is a "Disk 
Operating System", that is, a set of memory-resident routines, generally for
disk access. If these routines do not see some parts of the disk, it doesn't
mean YOU (or virus) couldn't access them. Even if DOS partitioning sceme
takes int 13, you have several tricks to find original ROM int 13 handler.

And virus athor doesn't have to have some particular grudge agains non-DOS
users, he just can be too lasy or too stupid to properly check FS type.

Cheers,
Fat Brother.

P.S. If you has any comments, reply to fat@cnit.nsk.su or fat@nw.cnit.nsk.su.
My NNTP config is broken :-(

------------------------------

From: eric@pandora.Las-Vegas.NV.US (Eric J. Schwertfeger)
Subject: Re: [term] Boo-hoo!
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 23:12:48 GMT

Bill Hogan (bhogan@crl.com) wrote:
:   It is my understanding that, although there is some initial increased 
: load associated with using a multi-way serial hookup such as Gnu 'term', 
: that increased load soon migrates back down to the calling system.

As it was explained to me a long time ago about a similar program (How many
term users are ex-users of DNET?), programs like term use a ptty for each
command session, and there are a limited number of ptty's on a system.

Fortunately, shortly thereafter, UNLV moved away from a mainframe
environment to workstations, thus eliminating the ptty shortage.

Oh, I could be wrong, it may not be ptty, but I think it is (virtual tty's).
 

------------------------------


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