Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #370
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Mon, 4 Jul 94 00:15:17 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #370, Volume #2                 Mon, 4 Jul 94 00:15:17 EDT

Contents:
  Linux-on-a-disk (Was OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2)) (Rick)
  Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2) (Rick)
  Re: DOOM For X? (Jason Van Patten)
  Re: How to set runlevels? (Marko Schuetz)
  Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing (Robert Sanders)
  HP LaserJet 4L setup solution (Wing Chung)
  [Need Xconfig for Fahrenheit 1200 + (Bad)] (Charles Browning Bus. Education)
  Re: Watching a user on an tty? (Dale Shuttleworth)
  Re: VP/ix for Linux? (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2) (Matt Austern)
  Re: Watching a user on an tty? (Scott Doty)
  Re: Consumer standards (OS/2 vs. Linux discussed) (Chun Hsu)
  Re: OS/2 vs. Linux : Stop this discussion! (Paul Stoffregen)
  Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing (Chun Hsu)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: pclink@qus102.qld.npb.telecom.com.au (Rick)
Subject: Linux-on-a-disk (Was OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2))
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 00:15:52 GMT

ajross@husc10.harvard.edu (Andrew) writes:

>One disk: should be easy enough to put together.  Post an image.

Andrew and a number of other posters have asked to see Linux fit on a
disk.  I don't have FTP access, so I can't put it on a site, but I have
such a beast.  Stick it in an 8Mb PC, reboot, and Linux loads into a
4Mb ramdisk.  Full kernel, comms software (UUCP, minicom, sz, rz),
networking (telnet, ftp, rlogin, nfsmount, SLIP, PPP, etc), text
procesing tools (head, tail, sort, wc, uniq, etc), elvis, perl, awk,
disk recovery software (mkfs*, fsck*, fdisk, bpe), and a partridge in a
peartree.  Slackware 2.0 comes with something similar.

I also have X on a disk.  Full server, networking, and a few local
clients.  Boot on a LAN connected PC and I have an X workstation.

Interested readers can roll their own with cramdisk-1.0.tar.gz,
available from an archive site near you.

Cheers,
Rick.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: pclink@qus102.qld.npb.telecom.com.au (Rick)
Subject: Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 00:18:04 GMT

tjrc1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Tim Cutts) writes:

>1150 k for apps?  Come on Leo, this is bullshit now.  On top of your 250k
>kernel you will need:

>libc:  623k  Not much is going to run without this is it?
>bash:  300k (a smaller kernel if you can bear it)
>etc/*: 359k (probably much less, but that's how big mine is)
>a few basic bins:  like ls, getty, login, ps, tar, gzip: ~200k, probably more

>Not much room for apps now is there?  I think you just about filled your
>disk just getting a working system on it...

I refer you to the post titled `Linux-on-a-disk'.

Rick.

------------------------------

From: vanpatjm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Jason Van Patten)
Subject: Re: DOOM For X?
Date: 4 Jul 1994 01:59:23 GMT

        Maybe not Microsoft, but the recent "OS/2 Professional" stated that 
IBM and ID are working closely to have a version of Doom for OS/2, sometime
in August.

        Just thought I'd throw that in :)

                                                        Jason
--
Jason Van Patten                  | If at first you don't succeed, keep |
Clarkson University               | on sucking till you do succeed.     |
vanpatjm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu  |                     - Curly Howard  |
                                  |                 (The Three Stooges) |
            ** Any opinions expressed here are actually
               yours, you just don't know it yet. **
 

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.admin
From: marko@hisplace.rhein-main.de (Marko Schuetz)
Subject: Re: How to set runlevels?
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 09:23:04 GMT

maxims@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Maxim Spivak) writes:

>How do I set runlevels? I tried to find some docs for it but couldn't 
>find any. (The init man page was a bit confusing...) Distributions: 
>Slackware & Yggdrasil.

Change:

# Default runlevel.
id:5:initdefault:

to:

# Default runlevel.
id:6:initdefault:

in /etc/inittab.

Cheers,
        Marko
-- 
---
       Marko Sch"utz / Koselstr. 7 / D 60318 Frankfurt / Germany
           marko@hisplace.rhein-main.de / Tel: +49 69 5971621

------------------------------

From: rsanders@mindspring.com (Robert Sanders)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing
Date: 02 Jul 1994 06:24:55 GMT

In article <Yi5643G00WB8MxF79B@andrew.cmu.edu> Leo L Turetsky <professor+@CMU.EDU> writes:

   > How is my operating system going to be faster than my PC?  I can't
   > claim to know many NeXTSTEP users -- it's not nearly as popular as

   You are correct. NeXTStep doesn't cut it on low end hardware... as a
   matter of fact... it doesn't even run on it. How can an OS make your PC
   faster... easy. NeXT does memory management and hd partitioning and ... 
   much better than Linux, OS/2, ... do and all of this adds up to more
   speed.

You said that NeXTSTEP ran "faster than the low end PC", which despite
your sensible preference for Linux over OS/2, is complete nonsense.
Don't distort yourself; let your postings shine in all their illogical
glory.  I didn't ask how NS could make my PC faster.  I know how Linux
can make my PC faster than it would be under NS, however.

Linux does memory management quite well.  HD partitioning?  Linux
partitions my HD well, too.  No modern OS can assume too much about
the HD; even the BSD FFS claims to know too much about disk geometry.
The safest assumption is that the disk (and each partition) is simply
a series of sectors indexed from first to last.

You show me concrete figures for your claims and I'll listen.
Otherwise, you're just another *.advocacy loon who just happens to not
have the trademark Amiga check.

  -- Robert

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: wing@research.canon.oz.au (Wing Chung)
Subject: HP LaserJet 4L setup solution
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 01:03:46 GMT

My orginal problem was to setup LJ4L to print ascii and postscript files.

The files that are to be created or modified are shown below.

--- /etc/printcap -----------------------------------------------------------
hp|laserjet text:\
        :lp=/dev/lp1:\
        :sd=/usr/spool/printers/hp:\
        :lf=/usr/spool/printers/hp/errs:\
        :if=/usr/spool/printers/hp/hp_text_filter:\
        :mx#0:\
        :sh:\
        :sf:

hpps|laserjet postscript:\
        :lp=/dev/lp1:\
        :sd=/usr/spool/printers/hp:\
        :lf=/usr/spool/printers/hp/errs:\
        :if=/usr/spool/printers/hp/hp_postscript_filter:\
        :mx#0:\
        :sh:\
        :sf:
--- ls -al /usr/spool/printers/hp -------------------------------------------
total 16
drwxrwxr-x   2 root     lp           1024 Jun 24 16:21 .
drwxr-xr-x   3 root     root         1024 Jun  8 11:50 ..
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     lp              4 Jun 24 16:19 .seq
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     lp           8189 Jun 21 19:11 errs
-rwxr-xr-x   1 root     root          141 Jun 21 18:58 hp_postscript_filter
-rwxr-xr-x   1 root     root           88 Jun 16 16:27 hp_text_filter
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     lp              3 Jun 27 17:20 lock
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     lp             27 Jun 24 16:19 status
--- /usr/spool/printers/hp/hp_text_filter -----------------------------------
#!/bin/sh
# Set HP LaserJet 4L for text printing
#
echo -ne \\033\&k2G
cat
echo -ne \\f
--- /usr/spool/printers/hp/hp_postscript_filter -----------------------------
#!/bin/sh
# Print postscript on HP using Ghostscript
#
/usr/bin/gs -q -dSAFER -dNOPAUSE -sDEVICE=ljet4 -sOutputFile=- \
   -sPAPERSIZE=a4 -r300 -
=============================================================================

I have noticed that when printing raw ascii, the printer may miss 3 lines 
at the bottom of every page. 

An alternative is to use aps-filter. YOu can obtain it from:

  site: ftp.germany.eu.net
  file: /pub/comp/i386/Linux/Incoming.EUnet/aps-23.tgz

The postscript printing part provided by aps-filter is very similar to
that shown above. When you print ascii, depending how you configured 
printcap, the program may choose to convert the ascii file to a 
postscript file and pass it onto ghostscript to print. Again, if
I choose the print ascii with a2ps to format the text into two columns,
the printer misses the left edge of the left column.


But anyways, I was only interested in printing postscript files. So
my problem is solved.


In addition, I also posted a message saying that I cannot set the mode
on one of my files to r-xr-sr-x (i.e. 's' in the mode). The following
may do the trick
        chmod 2555 <file>
        chmod a+r,a+x,g+s <file>
If you are using aps-filter, I believe it will take care of these little
things for you.


Thanks to all that helped me to setup my printer.



Best Regards

Wing

p.s. Meanwhile, I'll torture my poor little printer by printing the
     postscript files that I netfetch a few days ago, muhahahah  :-))
-- 
Wing Chung                                   wing@research.canon.oz.au
Canon Information Systems Research Australia Phone +61 2 805 2976
P.O. Box 313 North Ryde, NSW, Australia 2113 Fax:  +61 2 805 2929

------------------------------

From: browning@moe.coe.uga.edu (Charles Browning Bus. Education)
Subject: [Need Xconfig for Fahrenheit 1200 + (Bad)]
Date: 4 Jul 1994 02:49:24 GMT

I have been unsuccessful getting my Orchid Fahrenheit 1200 Plus/VLB to 
work with X.  I know it is a better video card than my Trident,but I am 
about ready to go back to the Trident.  If you have writen a successful 
Xconfig for the Orchid and a 14" monitor, I need you.  Will put your name 
in my will (ha).

Chuck

--
*****************************************************
*  Charles W. Browning *  browning@moe.coe.uga.edu  *
*     Augusta, GA      *      CIS:  72124,1146      *
*    706.855.9999      *     706.863.0065 (Fax)     *
*****************************************************

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin
From: dale@giskard.demon.co.uk (Dale Shuttleworth)
Subject: Re: Watching a user on an tty?
Reply-To: dale@giskard.demon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 01:16:17 GMT

Hi,

Roy Hann (rhh@tachy.uah.ualberta.ca) wrote:
: taylor@pollux (john taylor) writes:
: : The dump file can get huge quickly, and it is possible not to find the
: : password in the file. On the other hand, it is just as possible to find
: : passwords that have been typed in 10 to 15 minutes before the dump file
: : is made.  I am not a kmem expert, and speculate this method is system 
: : dependent.  Also, you would have to know what you were looking for, 
: : because the output is hard to comprehend.

: Once again, I have to shake my head and marvel at people who casually
: post everything from broad hints to explicit recipes for compromising
: system security.  Please DON'T!  I am begging now.

I dont mean to be rude but would you also suggest that people don't post
messages suggesting that people try:

su root

Of course not (I hope), if the system is correctly set up, all the user
will do is enter the wrong password (and generate a nice syslogd message
telling you they tried to do it).  Similarly, if your system is correctly
set up, cat /dev/kmem will return 'permission denied'.

If your /dev/kmem is world readable, you have put up a large sign saying
'The root password is <insert your root password here>'.

: I have heard the arguments that it won't get fixed if it doesn't get
: known about, but a would-be cracker can use the recipe _right now_.
: The fix may take weeks, months or even years to propagate.  In this
: environment (Linux) of all environments, the way to do it is quietly
: fix the problem, and get the fix included in the major distributions.
: If you can't do that, please just keep it to yourself.

This is not a bug, it is a feature, it is what allows programs like 'ps'
to work (unless you are using /proc).  If an ordinary user on your
system can cat /dev/kmem then your system is not correctly set up.  If
such a basic thing as this is not correct then I would expect to find
sufficient other holes to give me root in seconds anyway - have you
checked that telneting in and entering -pfroot as a user doesn't give
you a root shell? - If that one had been *quietly* fixed, thousands of
Linux boxes across the world would have been compromised by now.

Since you seem to be worried about fixes, here they are:

1) If you kmem is world readable then
 a)     chown root:kmem /dev/kmem
                OR, if you don't have a kmem group then
        chown root:root /dev/kmem

 b)     chmod 660 /dev/kmem
                OR, for the truly paranoid who don't use a kmem based ps
        chmod 600 /dev/kmem

2) If you have the telnet problem (also applies to gettys) then
 a)     get the security.tgz file from your local Linux archive and
        install the contents.  Also get the latest version of your
        getty (and check it has fixed the problem).  There may also be
        a fixed login program floating about as well (there was some
        discussion as to whether the problem was login, or the
        program which called it).

 b)     Look at limiting the ttys which root can log in from - this
        is not essential but is good practise.

To the best of my knowledge, the latest distributions incorporate both
these fixes.  (Well, the first one is hardly a fix, since I know of no
distributions which shipped with /dev/kmem world readable).

Since I disagree with your point of view, here is another error which I
have seen in several (admittedly older) Linux distributions.  Check
your device files, particularly /dev/hd* and /dev/sd*.  Unless you
have a rather peculiar setup (which you will know about) there is no
reason why these files should be readable by anyone other than root and
I'm not sure if even that is necessary.  While the fix should be obvious
to anyone with any unix experience (even the thick hackers described
below), I'll tell you anyway:

chown root:root /dev/hd* /dev/sd*
chmod 600 /dev/hd* /dev/sd*

: Most crackers that I have come across are actually kind of dumb.  They
: don't know what they are doing particularly, they are just following 
: a recipe, passed on by word-of-mouth, that started with one of the 
: rare ones who DID have some technical smarts.  Please don't help those 
: a**holes propagate their tricks, or give them any new ideas.

: I shall now descend gracefully from the pulpit and resume my seat.

If you can't keep up with the lastest security information, don't
allow people you don't trust access to the machine, either physically
or via a network.  Yes there are people who just try things they see
and I'm sure they make up the majority (75%), not talking about problems
will undoubtably stop these people.  I would also rather like to make
my system secure against the 25% who do know what they're doing, and
that unfortunately requires us to let each other know that there are
problems.  Linux in particular cannot support the security by obscurity
model since there is often no-one specific to complain to to get the
problem fixed.  Posting information about a hole on comp.os.linux.admin
or comp.os.linux.development is the Linux equivalent of submitting a
bug report.

                Dale.

PS:

: PLEASE: No shipments by courier from outside Canada; use regular mail.

I have never seen this in a .sig before, I think I might start including
something similar, just to confuse people :-)
-- 
******************************************************************************
*  Dale Shuttleworth                                                         *
*  Email: dale@giskard.demon.co.uk                                           *
******************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: mark@taylor.infi.net (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: VP/ix for Linux?
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 1994 01:51:08 GMT

rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) writes:

>In <1994Jul03.025247.14801@taylor.infi.net> mark@taylor.infi.net (Mark A. Davis) writes:

>>It is not my intention to batter DOSEMU.  I greatly appreciate the time
[...]
>You must have a very old version,

Getting older every day :)  Seriously, it is an older version.  I need to
shut up and go get it (except I pretty much have to upgrade everything
else along with it also).

> and/or have made errors during its installation.

That is doubtful, possible, but doubtful.

> The current (0.52) version is fast, runs many programs,
>and runs on many machines.

Now I am excited again.  If only I could decide which CD distribution to
buy and when....

>Of course, there are limitations (like "no protected-mode software")

Well, I am used to that limitation!  For the most part, it means MS-"Windows"
in enhanced mode....... no great loss!!!
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.infi.net           |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: matt@physics16.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2)
Date: 02 Jul 1994 06:44:40 GMT
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1994Jul1.222807.23508@Princeton.EDU> wgsohne@flagstaff.Princeton.EDU (Guido Sohne) writes:

> The difference is the reason why OS/2 *really* sucks and bites the dust.
> Unix has lots of functionality in the form of many useful little efficient
> programs like cut, tee, cat and many others (I have not named a good set of
> such little programs because I can't be bothered - if you want proof just
> express doubt and a Linux advocate will be happy to oblige). Unix has a
> great shell (the lowliest of them all sh is still miles above OS/2 command
> line). Using the command line under OS/2 hurts.

Well, actually Unix has many different shells, including sh, csh,
tcsh, ksh, and bash.  Fortunately, several of these shells have been
ported to OS/2.  So have cut, tee, cat, more, ls, mv, rm, cp, diff,
head, tail, tar, awk, perl, f2c, gcc, emacs, and pretty much all of
the other little (or, in the case of emacs, not so little) tools that
we've come to know and love from Unix.

You know, phrases like "sucks and bites the dust" really aren't all
that necessary or useful.  Unix does have a lot of very nice features;
so does OS/2.  One of the reasons I like OS/2 is that in fact it's
similar enough to Unix so that it's relatively easy to do ports of
useful Unix utilities.  It's possible to do useful work under both
operating systems, and it's not necessary to vilify people who have
chosen a different set of tools than you have.
--
       Matt Austern                       "Se non e vero, e ben trovato"

------------------------------

From: scott@tech.santarosa.edu (Scott Doty)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Re: Watching a user on an tty?
Date: 4 Jul 1994 03:13:51 GMT

Hello, all...

Dale Shuttleworth (dale@giskard.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> Roy Hann (rhh@tachy.uah.ualberta.ca) wrote:
> : Once again, I have to shake my head and marvel at people who casually
> : post everything from broad hints to explicit recipes for compromising
> : system security.  Please DON'T!  I am begging now.

[ snip ]

> : In this
> : environment (Linux) of all environments, the way to do it is quietly
> : fix the problem, and get the fix included in the major distributions.
> : If you can't do that, please just keep it to yourself.

[ snip ]

> have you
> checked that telneting in and entering -pfroot as a user doesn't give
> you a root shell? - If that one had been *quietly* fixed, thousands of
> Linux boxes across the world would have been compromised by now.

Even so, we can learn something from the way this was handled by
CERT.  The CERT advisory said only that there were vulnerabilities
with rlogind and telnetd -- the holes weren't described.

Like a good little SA, I grabbed the fixes and installed them. 
Since I didn't know how to exploit the hole, I had no way of
testing whether or not the hole was plugged.

As Dale points out, the problem was with login itself, or,
possibly, with the way login is called from other programs
(telnetd, rlogind, and getty) -- and only on certain Linux
distributions.  (As it turned out, our MCC-based system was safe.) 

My point is this:  had someone not disclosed the "-pfroot" hole in
the Linux newsgroups, I wouldn't have known whether or now we were
vunerable.  Don't get me wrong, I believe CERT is providing a good
service -- but you can't trust CERT to get it right every time. 
Not with Linux systems, anyway.

> Linux in particular cannot support the security by obscurity
> model since there is often no-one specific to complain to to get the
> problem fixed.

I agree, and I have to wonder:  did any CD-ROM vendors with the
"-pfroot" vulnerability distribute fixes?

 -Scott

------------------------------

From: hsuc@msu.edu (Chun Hsu)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Consumer standards (OS/2 vs. Linux discussed)
Date: 2 Jul 1994 06:52:23 GMT
Reply-To: hsuc@egr.msu.edu

Leo L Turetsky (professor+@CMU.EDU) wrote:
: > First of all, let me point out that no OS is even close to
: > being bug free.  Many OS/2 users have stated that OS/2
: > is extremely stable for them.  Others get Trap errors every
: > few hours.  Likewise, there are differing opinions on Linux.
: > I myself get occasion lockups from either tin or Openlook.

: But the problems in Linux are easily solved. Delete the OS and go to
: Windblows or something. Didn't cost anything.

The same can also be said of OS/2.  IBM has a return policy
on it.  I could have returned OS/2 2.0 & 2.1 if I wanted to.
You should have been able to also.

: > So, given that there are bugs in every operating system as well
: > as application software, who should pay for the patches that
: > are necessary?  I have never received a patch for free from
: > any software or hardware vendor.  It's doubtful that I am

: I get new drivers from SoundBlaster, ATI, and NEC continously. If you
: don't, complain.

Serious question, no flames:  how about software?

: > the only one.  So why set different standards for IBM and
: > OS/2?  If and when it becomes the norm in the software industry
: > to send free fixes, I will demand the same for OS/2.  When
: > you consider how low OS/2 is priced, it doesn't seem
: > reasonable at all to expect IBM to send 20+ disks to each user.

: It doens't seem reasonable to make users pay for a broken OS and then
: not fix it for them for free either.

Return it.  That's what return policies are for.  OS/2 was
broken for you, but not for many others.

: > For my $70 investment in OS/2 2.1, I expect technical support
: > for free.  I also expect that IBM will make patches available
: > and not try to profit from them.  I have been satisfied on
: > both cases.

: Are you kidding? A disk costs .25 and to ship it to your house costs
: 2.00 at most. How much is a patch from OS/2 by mail? I highly doubt it
: is 2.25.

I assume you are referring to IBM sending a single
patch for a specific problem, i.e., one diskette?

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard many OS/2
users say that they did indeed receive free patches by mail
when contacting IBM technical support.  Not the entire CSD,
just specific patches.  Come to think of it, IBM offered to send
a free patch by for a problem I had quite a while ago.  Since
I had ftp access, I told them it was unnecessary.  I do agree
that free patches for specific problems are reasonable.
Especially for things such as bad device drivers.  Can
any confirm whether or not IBM has an official policy
on this?

If that is what you meant all along, my sincere apologies for the
mistunderstanding.  I have wasted a lot of bandwidth arguing 
this point.

I don't agree that IBM should send entire CSD's for free.

: > Of course there is the argument that the software is too
: > buggy in the first place.  Somone earlier stated that OS/2
: > is "broken" and should never have been released.  Fine, vote
: > with your pocketbooks and "return" it.  If the product is
: > that bad, it will die a horrible death in the markeplace. 
: > Obviously, many user have already voted on OS/2, and the
: > results are pretty good. 

: Many users jumped on the OS/2 bandwagon before they knew what was wrong
: with it. Now it's too late and they must live with it. No one made the
: argument that software is too buggy in the first place. You did. And
: it's a dumb argument. Does this mean software should never be released?
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: -Leo

I agree.  Unfortunately, I confused you with another anti-OS/2
advocate who said that OS/2 should never have been released.
My apologies.

--
===========================================================================
 Chun Hsu                                     E-mail: hsuc@egr.msu.edu   
 Masters of Science
 Electrical Engineering                       Michigan State University
===========================================================================

------------------------------

From: paul@holmes.ece.orst.edu (Paul Stoffregen)
Subject: Re: OS/2 vs. Linux : Stop this discussion!
Date: 4 Jul 1994 03:20:40 GMT

In article <Ii56L1C00WB8MxF_tF@andrew.cmu.edu>,
Leo L Turetsky  <professor+@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>
>Did anyone ask for your opinion? I'm having fun... I suspect others are
>too. Don't ruin our fun at the expense of your sanity. Don't read the
>posts. Hitting the 'n' key is hard, huh?

Though nobody asked for my opinion either, I personally think hitting
'n' is a pain when a thread is so large and senseless as the OS2 vs...
thing has become.

Fortunately, I use trn, so I hit 'J'.

For those without threaded readnews, a pattern search followed by 'j'
would work, except that 'OS/2' has a forward slash.  Maybe typing
/OS\/2/ j  could wipe out the entire thread??  I'd try it, but I
already junked the entire thread.  Oh well.

------------------------------

From: hsuc@msu.edu (Chun Hsu)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing
Date: 2 Jul 1994 07:13:32 GMT
Reply-To: hsuc@egr.msu.edu

Leo L Turetsky (professor+@CMU.EDU) wrote:
: Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.misc: 1-Jul-94 Re: Linux better than
: OS/2 .. by Mike Dahmus@news.gate.ne 
: > >I
: > >did provide evidence, or where to look for it anyway. Only a complete
: > >idiot would disagree with the fact that NeXT drivers work when they are
: > >released as opposed to OS/2 drivers.
: >  
: > Another wild generalization, completely unsupported by fact. Leo, get a grip.
: > You're going to get a rep as the Brian Sturgill of the NextStep crowd.

: Should I be more specific? Okay. There is a driver that doesn't work for
: NS. Now you be general. All OS/2 drivers have some kind of bug. Your
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: generality doesn't seem to hold for all cases but on the whole there is
: a basis for it. My generality: doens't hold for all cases, but seems to
: hold on the whole. That's what generality means. Look it up.

Of course this is very possible, but on what basis do
you draw this conclusion?  It seems to me almost every
piece of software/driver has bugs.  Sometimes, it
takes a specific combination of events or hardware 
conflicts to bring them out.  IMHO, that's why there
are often contradictions in opinions on the stability
of software.

Do you really find it that hard to believe that many
users find OS/2 stable?  No flames intended.

: I want fixes that are free to everyone... not to people with FTP access.
: If I pay for software I expect it to be supported to me at no cost until
: it does what it was rpomised to do.

I certainly would not mind if this became the standard
in the software industry.  My impression was that most
companies are moving away from this if anything.  Didn't 
WordPerfect recently start charging for phone support or
at least consider it?

Ack!  I think I am starting to post too much.  Going
to have to resist the temptation to argue every point.
Ironic how I used to laugh at the NT vs OS/2 threads
in comp.os.os2.advocacy. :-)
--
===========================================================================
 Chun Hsu                                     E-mail: hsuc@egr.msu.edu   
 Masters of Science
 Electrical Engineering                       Michigan State University
===========================================================================

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