Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #369
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sun, 3 Jul 94 21:13:07 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #369, Volume #2                 Sun, 3 Jul 94 21:13:07 EDT

Contents:
  Re: LJ #3? (Phil Hughes)
  Re: [term] Boo-hoo! (David Fox)
  Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2) (Tim Cutts)
  Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2) (Tim Cutts)
  JOVE and other emacs-like editors for Linux (Davor Cubranic)
  Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing (Tim Cutts)
  M$ & the DOJ (spells + for Linux) (Dwight M Evers)
  Re: Did Xconfig fry my monitor? (Posting for a friend) (Brett G Person)
  Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing (David E. Fox)
  Re: What ETHERNET cards work with linux? (Marty Schultz)
  Re: 4 Questions i need help answering... (Beverly J. Brown)
  Re: LJ #3? (Paul J. Gans)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: fyl@eskimo.com (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Re: LJ #3?
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 21:46:31 GMT

Joseph W. Vigneau (joev@garden.WPI.EDU) wrote:
: Noticing the mention of the Linux Journal #4 in c.o.l.a., I was
: wondering, when was #3 mailed?  I haven't received mine yet...

This is a common question. LJ #3 was mailed "around" June 17.
I say around because it goes to a mailhouse -- part was mailed on the
17th, part was on June 20.  The international mailing was on June 17
except Canada which was June 15.  (Confusing, isn't it. :-) )

We have been publishing the table of contents of each issue in c.o.l.a
when the magazine is ready to go to the printer so you will see it about 2
weeks before we have magazines to mail.

Mailing in the US is by Third Class Mail so it could take from 1 to 3
weeks to get the magazine.  (The longest times seem to be in New York and
Georgia for some reason.)  We expect to be mailing Second Class before the
end of the year which should cut down the delay.  Canada is currently done
via printed matter-air rate which is fast (and very expensive).  As soon
as we have enough Canadian subscribers we will go to ValuePost. Other
non-US destinations are handled by ISAL (International Surface Air Lift).
What this means is that it is by air from the US to a single destination
within the destination country, surface from there. It has been taking
from 7-14 days.

If you order a back issue and pay $4 it is mailed either first class in
the US or will be put in our monthly ISAL mailing to non-US destinations.
If you pay $6 it will be sent air mail immediately.

Currently each issue is ready to mail around the 15th of the month prior
to the cover date.  For example, issue #4, the August issue, will be ready
to mail on July 15.  We will be slowly moving the dates back as we would
like it ready to mail around the 5th of the month.  But squeezing 10 days
out of a monthly schedule is a lot of work.

I hope that answers most of the general questions about mailing of LJ.
Note that the October issue will be a buyer's guide.  Besides our regular
distribution we will have a booth a Unix Expo where we will make the
magazine available.  If you are a consultant or have a Linux-related
product we feel it will be well worth your effort to get into that issue.
First time listings in the consultants directory are free, after that
$150/year. You can send your listing (name, company, contact info and a
few words about what you do) to linux@fylz.com.  To set up a 1-year
listing the best method is to FAX the info along with your credit card
data to (206) 527-3385 or mail it to Linux Journal, P.O. Box 85867,
Seattle, WA 98145-1867. It can be charged to a Visa, Amex or MasterCard.

Subscription questions can be e-mailed to subs@ssc.com or, to talk to a
human, (206) 527-3385 8-5PDT weekdays. Other questions can be sent to
linux@fylz.com.  Request advertising information by calling (206) 524-8338
or via e-mail to joanne@fylz.com.
--
Phil Hughes, Publisher, Linux Journal (206) 524-8338
usually phil@fylz.com, sometimes fyl@eskimo.com

------------------------------

From: fox@graphics.cs.nyu.edu (David Fox)
Subject: Re: [term] Boo-hoo!
Date: 03 Jul 1994 13:22:44 GMT

In article <2utkh3$fum@crl2.crl.com> bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan) writes:

]   Maybe the real reason behind the prohibition against widespread use of
] things like Gnu 'term' is that some people are taking unfair advantage of
] their internet-access providers systems, by logging-on as internet users
] but then proceeding to run multiple non-internet-related heavy-duty
] processes, in which case I would be just as pleased to see those abusers
] chased off internet-access providers' machines as the providers themselves
] would be. 

If this is a problem then the provider needs to reconsider their
billing policies.  If there is some activity they want to discourage
they should raise its price.
--
David Fox                                               xoF divaD
NYU Media Research Lab                     baL hcraeseR aideM UYN

------------------------------

From: tjrc1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Tim Cutts)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2)
Date: 3 Jul 1994 08:26:32 GMT

Leo L Turetsky <professor+@CMU.EDU> writes:

>Are you making a point? Emacs' full distribution is over 25 megs... ez is six.
>  
>> Also, if you are using (or not using, as the case may be) OpenLook as
>> a window manager then you are missing the point.  OpenLook, like the
>> WPS, is an OO (sort of) environment.  It does more than manage your
>> window borders and launch programs.

>Yeah, I use the libs, but the windows manager is useless. Libs and GUI's
>are different things.

Yes, in Unix.  Not in OS/2, so to compare, you're going to have to compare 
equivalent with equivalent; Presentation Manager with X plus some libs and
a window manager to give it the same functionality.  Can't you see that?
  
>> You also seem be missing the fact that OS/2 _also_ has extensive
>> character mode features, and can be booted using CMD.EXE (or 4OS2, or
>> even bash) as the shell.  There are quite a few character mode
>> applications out there that make no use of PM -- including most of the
>> gnu stuff.  Eliminate X and you still have Unix.  Eliminate PM and you
>> still have OS/2.  Where is the difference?

>Show me one OS/2 system that runs without PM; I mean never loads it at all.

Lots of people who only have 4Mb RAM.  Same probably applies to Linux (unless
people like taking naps waiting for X to do something... :-)

>> >> And a one disk installation of Linux can't really do anything, can
>it?  OK,
>> >> you could feasibly make a boot disk with a few TCP/IP clients on it,
>> >but you'd
>> >> have to remove so much stuff that it would be severely crippled.
>>  
>> >It can do plenty.
>>  
>> OK, come on now.  If we are going to have rabid flame wars here, you
>> are going to have to try harder.  The poster above made the point that
>> you really can't do much with a one-floppy unix system (or OS/2
>> system, for that matter).  He even went out of his way to admit there
>> might be a few things you _could_ stick on it -- telnet, etc...
>>  
>> You responded:  It can do plenty.
>>  
>> Plenty of what?  Come on now, _that's_ not advocacy.  Let's see some
>> effort ;)

>This is a lame post, I didn't see you do any advocating either.
>Physician heal thyself. You can have a bootabkle kernel on disk that
>will have full ethernet functionality and sound suppost and whatever.
>This kernel is about 250K which leaves about 1150K for apps. Sounds like
>plenty to me.

1150 k for apps?  Come on Leo, this is bullshit now.  On top of your 250k
kernel you will need:

libc:  623k  Not much is going to run without this is it?
bash:  300k (a smaller kernel if you can bear it)
etc/*: 359k (probably much less, but that's how big mine is)
a few basic bins:  like ls, getty, login, ps, tar, gzip: ~200k, probably more

Not much room for apps now is there?  I think you just about filled your
disk just getting a working system on it...

Tim.

------------------------------

From: tjrc1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Tim Cutts)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2)
Date: 3 Jul 1994 08:34:07 GMT

Leo L Turetsky <professor+@CMU.EDU> writes:

>Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.misc: 2-Jul-94 Re: OS/2 and Linux
>discusse.. by Chun Hsu@msu.edu 
>> GNU products are "packaged" with Linux only if you use one of the
>> standard distributions.  That does not make them any more a part 
>> of Linux as in OS/2.  GNU products are simply "available" in both
>> OS'es.  Live with it.

>Huh? Did you read this before you sent it? You said they are packaged
>with Linux only if you install Linux? We are comparing the OS/2
>distribution with a Linux distribution, not a Linux barebones. Thus, GNU
>comes with Linux. Thus, GNU does not come with OS/2. Where are you
>taking a left when you should be making a right?

Really Leo?  Are you comparing full distributions?  I believe you were
the one saying that you get an entire Linux distribution on one
floppy, and forgetting most of the equivalent packages...

Tim.

------------------------------

From: cubranic@whale.st.usm.edu (Davor Cubranic)
Subject: JOVE and other emacs-like editors for Linux
Date: 3 Jul 1994 08:34:57 GMT

I have recently read on some newsgroup or other a posting about Jove
editor being available for Linux, and saying how it was much better
than JED and other emacs-like editors available for Linux.  (I don't
remember if the post claimed Jove being better than Emacs, though.)

If somebody has a copy of that post, or can point me to the newest
version of Jove for Linux, please email me.  Actually, what I am
looking for is a good emacs-like, extendible editor that is not
as big a space-hog as emacs.  I'd like to be able to use cursor keys,
PgUp, PgDn, Home, End, etc.  Also, I haven't seen a Linux editor
letting you use Ctrl-arrow combinations, something I have gotten quite
used to in MS-DOS/Win world.  Is there one that can do such stuff?  
If you would like to share your experiences with such beasts or if 
you think I should forget about them and use The Real Think (tm) 
(only which one then: lemacs, emacs 18.x, 19.x???), then please email 
me.  If there is enough replies and interest, I'd be glad to summarize 
everything and post it here.  Oh, and please send in the ftp location 
if your editor cannot be found in archives such as sunsite and tsx-11.

Thanks a lot,

--
Davor Cubranic
cubranic@whale.st.usm.edu

------------------------------

From: tjrc1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Tim Cutts)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing
Date: 3 Jul 1994 08:41:12 GMT

vanpatjm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Jason Van Patten) writes:

>       I had an argument like this with a professor of mine here at Clarkson.
>I was pushing OS/2 and he, being the Unix buff that he is, was pushing Unix.
>He said to me "The best operating system in the whole world, is the one that
>makes _YOU_ (yeah, you.. look in the mirror, see the reflection?) happy.

Absolutely.  Couldn't agree more.

>       I personally put plugs in for _BOTH_ OS/2 and Linux.  I use OS/2 for
>it's superb DOS multitasking, and it's Windoze support (I hate Windoze, but
>can't live without Ami Pro :) ).  Linux on the other hand, provides me with
>all the services of Unix, right on my own PC.  Great for learning and 
>exploring.  But, because it can't do decent emulation, I won't devote both
>HD's to it yet.

That's exactly my situation too.  I do my real academic work with OS/2,
using it to run Word for Windows, Excel, Cricket Graph and a whole load of
other Windows programs.  I tried to use GNUPlot and TeX for a while, but
felt they didn't offer me enough ease of use.  I use Linux (with its great
term utility) for all my networking stuff, and general larking about.  I
love both OSs.  But they have very different fortes in my experience.

Tim.

------------------------------

From: evers@plains.NoDak.edu (Dwight M Evers)
Subject: M$ & the DOJ (spells + for Linux)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 22:29:00 GMT

        Just to recap what the DOJ will be looking into for the BIG GREEN 
monster,a s 'Open Computing' calls the gates machine, 7 magic area will 
be unserinvstigation...

1.      PREDATORY DISPARAGEMENT OF COMPETITORS

This just means that M$ would put up error messages on the screen or what 
have you to make you think there was software incompatability.

2.      EXCLUSIVE DEALINGS

Shutting out others to the market by keeping CPU makers in a contractual 
bind, like Intel an AMD.

3.      PREDATORIAL AND NONLINEAR PRICING

This refers to the high cost of other OSs trying to be Windoze compatible 
yet having PC makers/vendors only pay a measily $15 for a single license.

4.      PREDATORIAL PREANNOUNCEMENT

This is the one I love ;} M$ leads us all on to believe that 'Chicago' 
will be ready for showand tell on such and such a date and then only 
begins to tell everyone else that it won't really be out until some time 
in the later part of the decade. What this does is freezes the market for 
developers of other software.

5.      PRODUCT TYING

This is a hoot, but not all that new of a tactic. In order for you to be 
able to run everything they claim to work with product "A", they don't 
tell you that you have to also buy product "B", "C", and a whole slew of 
other "goodie$".

6.      INFORMATION TYING

This is just withholding info to developers so that they can't make 
products for themunless they sign a contract that locks them into 
slavery, or the hour wage equivalent.

7.      TECHNOLOGY TYING

I really love this little bit...Building Windoze on top of DOS instead of 
making it its own OS,like OS/2 (yes I use OS/2 and the BETA 2.99 is 
really kind of slick...It was only $15 on CD, less than what I paid for 
Summer '94 of Yggadrasil).

        So in essence I must say that the future of OSes out there will 
look very pleasing now that the DOJ has Billy-boy with his hands n his 
pockets. I predict a BIG turnaround in the software industry, at least at 
M$. I don't hate M$, Works is really nice, I just hate slick-Billy. 
Thumbs up Linus. keep the OS nice and 'free' and don't piss of Connie Chung 
and you won't be under investigation.

        By keeping the OS free and letting people dev applications for 
sale is a great idea. X has a much nicer interface than Windoze anyhow.

just my 2gig worth...

============================================================================
                        |       "...peace is a thing which a person
Dwight M. Evers         |           must be willing to fight for..."
evers@plains.NoDak.edu  |
        NDSU            |                       -Abe Lincoln
============================================================================
DOS is dead...                          CHOOSE 32bit!!!!

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.windows.x.i386unix
From: person@badlands.NoDak.edu (Brett G Person)
Subject: Re: Did Xconfig fry my monitor? (Posting for a friend)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 22:48:49 GMT


My bet would be that the monitor is just plains bad.  Last year I
instaled a gateway 2000 and crystalscan monitor in my father's
office. The monitor failed with the same symptoms you describe within
SECONDS of the first power on. It totally died two hours later. 



-- 
Brett G. Person
person@badlands.nodak.edu
North Dakota State University

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: root@belvedere.sbay.org (David E. Fox)
Subject: Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 20:13:46 GMT

Joseph W. Vigneau (joev@garden.WPI.EDU) wrote:

: Of course these companies exist. But it isn't the only method of
: getting Linux if you don't have net access.  There's  always FriendNet,
: SneaketNet, and FloppyNet!  Or do what one of my roomates did. He just

Yep - you can do this with Linux. You can't with OS/2 - at least not
legally. That's a crucial difference. (Would the OS/2 advocates be likely
to say "Congratulations - you're using OS/2 now" if I were to tell them I
got it off a pirate BBS? I think not.)

: -- 
: joev@wpi.edu, joev@hotblack.schunix.dmc.com     WPI Computer Science     Linux!
:     <a href="http://www.wpi.edu:8080/~joev"> Click Here! </a>
-- 
David Fox                       root@belvedere.sbay.org
5479 Castle Manor Drive
San Jose, CA 95129              Thanks for letting me change
408/253-7992                    magnetic patterns on your hard disk.

------------------------------

From: schultz@science.widener.edu (Marty Schultz)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Re: What ETHERNET cards work with linux?
Date: 2 Jul 1994 00:56:20 GMT

In article <2uv93a$cm1@opine.cs.umass.edu> crocker@opine (MATTHEW CROCKER) writes:
>More specifically does the 3COM EtherLink III 16-bit work?
>
 I have set up linux 1.0 with both 3c509 and 3c503 cards.
 Both are working fine.

Later,
-- 
Marty Schultz  (schultz@science.widener.edu)                     _
                                                                >#)
   THESE PRETZELS ARE MAKING ME THIRSTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!         (V)
                  - Seinfeld                                    ^^\\

------------------------------

From: bjb@shore.net (Beverly J. Brown)
Subject: Re: 4 Questions i need help answering...
Date: 3 Jul 1994 20:45:17 -0400
Reply-To: bjb@shore.net

In article <1994Jul1.172037.19208@wmichgw>,
31khoo@wmich.edu (Beng Teck Here...) wrote:
> I have 4 questions here that have arisen from my installation of Linux and i
> hope someone here can help answer them for me....
> 
> 1) I don't see how Seyon can do vt220/vt100 emulation... (or am i mistaken?)
> Can someone recomend a good vt220 emulator comm program. My xterm, and emulator
> doesn't seem to do the keyboard mapping correctly... any ideas?
> Also, Seyon doesn't do file transfers in kermit... :( any suggestions? I don't
> quite want to open an xterm and run kermit... 

Seyon will let you use any terminal emulator you want. It defaults to xterm 
but you can try using rxvt which is closer to a real vt100 than xterm is.

You should be able to put a line for kermit in your protocols file in your 
~/.seyon directory simliar to:

KERMIT_RCV="kermit -r"
KERMIT_SEND="kermit -s"

(You may need a place-holder for file-names in the above (%s maybe), I'm not currently 
booted into linux so I can't check. But the protocols file is very well 
commented and you should be able to foolow the examples that are in there.)


> 2) how do i set my printer to be the default printer when i lpr? The printcap
> has lp|panasonic and there is a spool file set up as panasonic. lpr -P
> panasonic works. however, i have to define the environ PRINTER as panasonic
> before it becomes default... any ideas to do this at startup? 

If you're using the csch or tcsh then add the following line to you .cshrc:
setenv PRINTER panasonic

I'm not sure what file to add to under bash.

> 
> 3) my gateway crystalscan 1024NI has the root window too big for my screen and
> as a result it scrolls with my mouse... any ideas what to put in Xconfig to set
> it up right? What resolution should be good?

1024X768 ?

> 
> 4) X windows does not run for me if selection is already running... It says
> device busy... I have to kill selection before i can run X. Any ideas how i can
> get both of them to run? It is a PS/2 style mouse.

I never had this problem but I don't have a PS/2 mouse either.


Beverly J. Brown
bjb@shore.net
beverly@datacube.com

------------------------------

From: gans@scholar.chem.nyu.edu (Paul J. Gans)
Subject: Re: LJ #3?
Date: 4 Jul 1994 00:54:22 GMT
Reply-To: gans@scholar.chem.nyu.edu

Phil Hughes (fyl@eskimo.com) wrote:

[discussion on lead time to get the linux journal deleted.]

: Mailing in the US is by Third Class Mail so it could take from 1 to 3
: weeks to get the magazine.  (The longest times seem to be in New York and
: Georgia for some reason.)  

My copy of #3 arrived in New York City about a week ago.  Sometimes
even the NY post office messes up and delivers on time for 
a change.... :-)  :-)

     ----- Paul J. Gans   [gans@scholar.chem.nyu.edu]


------------------------------


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