Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #367
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sun, 3 Jul 94 14:13:09 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #367, Volume #2                 Sun, 3 Jul 94 14:13:09 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Consumer standards (OS/2 vs. Linux discussed) (Leo L Turetsky)
  Re: ftape and Conner Backup Basics (Oleg Zabluda)
  Compressed linux on CD??? (christina.morwood@timber.com)
  Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2) (Leo L Turetsky)
  simple questions, not a beginner (Steve Kilby)
  >>>>Youngest linux user (Andrew Liles)
  Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2) (Jim Robinson)
  UPDATE: SWT Customer Service (Tim Bass (Network Systems Engineer))
  Re: >>>>Youngest linux user (Brian Stoler)
  Re: VP/ix for Linux? (tom payne)
  Re: dialup connections (Harald Milz)
  Re: How do I  end a dip/ SLIP session (Harald Milz)
  Re: ANNOUNCE: Slackware Linux 2.0 (Trevor Pendleton)
  X editors (Jason Van Patten)
  Re: Why won't my NN work?........ (bannazadeh arash)
  Re: How do I  end a dip/ SLIP session (Alan B. Evans)
  Re: OS/2 vs. Linux : Stop this discussion! (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR)
  Re: How do I end a dip/ SLIP session (Rob Janssen)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Leo L Turetsky <professor+@CMU.EDU>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Consumer standards (OS/2 vs. Linux discussed)
Date: Sat,  2 Jul 1994 00:35:09 -0400

Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.misc: 1-Jul-94 Re: Consumer
standards (OS/.. by Christopher Reynolds@pri 
> >Are you kidding? A disk costs .25 and to ship it to your house costs
> >2.00 at most. How much is a patch from OS/2 by mail? I highly doubt it
> >is 2.25.
>  
> Actually, IBM usually produces a new "correct service diskette" set.
> This set is usually about twenty disks. So, at your rates that's $45. 

And?
  
> >Many users jumped on the OS/2 bandwagon before they knew what was wrong
> >with it. Now it's too late and they must live with it. No one made the
> >argument that software is too buggy in the first place. You did. And
> >it's a dumb argument. Does this mean software should never be released?
>  
> Also, IBM will take OS/2 back and give you your money back. That sounds
> pretty fair to me. You can buy OS/2 for about $39. Try if for thirty
> days, and if you don't like it, take it back. How much more do you want?

Fine... do all the apps you buy? No.

-Leo

+----------------------------------------------------------+
| Leo Turetsky          |  1) leo@professor.pc.cc.cmu.edu  |
| Sigma Nu              |  2) professor@cmu.edu            |
| 1055 Morewood Ave.    |  Carnegie-Mellon University      |
| Pittsburgh, PA 15213  |  Sophomore, ECE\CS Double Major  |
| (412) 862-2963        |  Nugget: SPIN BHBHY, YAXY?       |
+----------------------esp---------------------------------+


------------------------------

From: zabluda@math.psu.edu (Oleg Zabluda)
Subject: Re: ftape and Conner Backup Basics
Date: 2 Jul 1994 05:00:46 GMT

Louis-D. Dubeau (hallu@boole.info.polymtl.ca) wrote:
: You can also use `mt /dev/nrft0 fsf <whatever>' to skip whatever
: number of archives. It works, I tried it.

Yes it works for tar archives. But it doesn't seem to work with
afio backups. Does anybody know why?

Oleg.




------------------------------

Subject: Compressed linux on CD???
From: christina.morwood@timber.com
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 04:05:00 +0000


Hello folks.

I was wondering if people would be interested in purchasing a CD
(packed with 600 megs worth of shareware) that also contained a FULL
compressed version of Linux? I believe the distribution is
Slackware, but I'll verify that first.  I receive any updates
made for this distribution directly from the author via satellite.

Since, I'm not too familiar with Linux, this version would be
compressed in it's separate directory on the CD.  It would not be
mountable, however, if you want to save money FTPing and time
from installing from floppy, this may be an alternative.

The cost for this CD would be somewhere around the $12-15US range
including shipping. This includes many utilities for OS/2, Windows,
plus all the recent shareware that's out there.  All files are no
more than 2-3 months old at any time.


Before I'd master this CD, I would appreciate any input or
comments.

Please email  sales@timber.com

Regards,

Christina Morwood


------------------------------

From: Leo L Turetsky <professor+@CMU.EDU>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2)
Date: Sat,  2 Jul 1994 00:35:57 -0400

Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.misc: 1-Jul-94 Re: OS/2 and Linux
discusse.. by Lulu t. lotus-eaters@twa 
> Leo L Turetsky (professor+@CMU.EDU) wrote:
> : Show me one OS/2 system that runs without PM; I mean never loads it at all.
>  
> OK... come on over next time you visit Northampton, MA.  I'll give you 
> instructions how to get here by email. :-).  There's no terrible mystery 
> to how to do this.  

Do you use this system? Or are you claiming it can just be done?

-Leo

+----------------------------------------------------------+
| Leo Turetsky          |  1) leo@professor.pc.cc.cmu.edu  |
| Sigma Nu              |  2) professor@cmu.edu            |
| 1055 Morewood Ave.    |  Carnegie-Mellon University      |
| Pittsburgh, PA 15213  |  Sophomore, ECE\CS Double Major  |
| (412) 862-2963        |  Nugget: SPIN BHBHY, YAXY?       |
+----------------------esp---------------------------------+


------------------------------

From: skilby@babbage.ece.uc.edu (Steve Kilby)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: simple questions, not a beginner
Date: 2 Jul 1994 05:12:58 GMT

Hello,
   Thanks to all who have helped with my previous questions.  I am 
running XDM with the following line in /etc/inittab:

xw:456:once:/usr/bin/X11/xdm -nodaemon

Whenever I log out of a session XDM resets as it is supposed to, but I
receive an error in /usr/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-errors.

XIO:  fatal IO error 32 (Broken pipe) on X server ":0.0"
      after nn requests (nn known processed) with 0 events remaining.
      The connection was probably broken by a server shutdown or KillClient.

Is this normal????  Second, root logins do not seem to pick up on the
resource DisplayManager*userPath, so how do you set root's path????

Finally, I have a SCSI drive.  The first partition on this drive was
formatted for DOS.  I inadvertently deleted the first partition.  There
were some files on the partition which I wished to save.  I restored the
partition with the same parameters it previously had.  The partition came
back with a DOS format but the files were gone.  Is there any to reclaim
them????

If you have a moment, I would really appreciate some help with these.
Please respond to smk@fore.com.

               thanks,
                   steven ....
--
smk@fore.com


------------------------------

From: ironman@news.gate.net (Andrew Liles)
Subject: >>>>Youngest linux user
Date: 2 Jul 1994 23:55:01 -0400

How about the youngest person who has setup his/her own linux box from 
scratch and configured everything all by [him,her]self.

I am 14 and I have setup my own linux box. Everyone else mentioned here 
was just uning their parents' machine and playing lousy games.  That's 
not all linux is good for, you know.  Teach these kids practical skills.

Just thought i'd drop in.


Andrew Liles

------------------------------

From: jimr@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Jim Robinson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2)
Date: 1 Jul 1994 17:19:30 GMT

In article <2v1ba6$jo2@bug.fi> dreamer@bug.fi (Marko Karppinen) writes:
>In article <2upnjh$8i2@spool.cs.wisc.edu>,
>Jim Robinson <jimr@shorty.cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>>Yeah, people don't seem to realize that OS/2 on floppy (2.0) was some
>>30 disks and that was just the OS and some dinky toy-apps.  Linux OS
>>itself needs 1 disk, but all those neat programs take up space, they
>>can't just appear magically on your drive.
>
>And that just isn't true. The probably most popular Linux distribution -
>Slackware Linux - uses two floppies to boot, one for the kernel and
>one for the barebones file system. OS/2 in this sense is essentially
>the same - in most cases you can fit a working system on two
>floppies.." 


Is it just that you came into the thread late?  Every person who has
commented on my above seems NOT to have read the previous posts on the
subject of OS/2 and Linux.  People were claiming that OS/2 was better
simply because you could load it off of NFS and CDROM, I said "Linux
can also do this" and went a step further with the above saying "and
you get a very complete system."  So why can't people read the entire
message? 

And the only GOOD response I got said "Well, it has WPS and REXX, and
some good mini-apps, and the OS/2 editor."  I agree, it does have
SOME good things, but by no means is it as complete as a linux
distribution in terms of working applications. 

So, in summary: OS/2 AND Linux can use a single or dual floppy to
install off of NFS or CDROM. OS/2 had 21 disks, Linux distributions
have 10 to 30.  Linux has more applications, and who gives a damn
about "which is better" if you like it personally?

Jim

------------------------------

From: bass@cais.cais.com (Tim Bass (Network Systems Engineer))
Subject: UPDATE: SWT Customer Service
Date: 3 Jul 1994 16:45:18 GMT


Full circle, I wanted to followup on my post on SWT Technologies - Marvin Wu.

I bought a P5/SCSI II system with a lot of bells and beeps (still want more!)

In the beginning there was a problem shipping.  I was not happy about it
and posted a warning.  All said and done, SWT has made good on all the promises
made and has been very helpful.  One of the nicest things about dealing with
SWT is how flexible Marvin has  been in tuning my configuration.  

For example:

I bought a cheap'o 8 bit ethernet card that died and crashed my system on big
local file transfers.  He sent me an SMC card (16 bit) immediately and it
works like a charm.

I'm still working on the monitor.  I've got a VueSonic 17.  It's okay, but I'm
looking at an NEC 17.  Marvin is patient with me on this.  Of course, it works
both ways, and I'm fair and reasonable with him.  

My experience with Computer Shopper vendors has been terrible.  Maybe their
getting to big, who knows?!  SWT is small and willing to help anyway they 
can.  I am about to buy more memory, maybe a writeable CD (Phillips), more
SCSI drives, (it never ends...).   My  vender of first choice is SWT.

Never perfect.....but better than any glossy ad vendor in Computer Shopper.

I just hope that as SWT grows, the service stays personal.  But we all know
that if you can find a small business that really cares, service AND price
is unbeatable.



------------------------------

From: sto2@netaxs.com (Brian Stoler)
Subject: Re: >>>>Youngest linux user
Date: 3 Jul 1994 15:23:43 GMT

Andrew Liles (ironman@news.gate.net) wrote:
: How about the youngest person who has setup his/her own linux box from 
: scratch and configured everything all by [him,her]self.

I did. Started 5 monthes ago at 14, now 15. Guess you win :)

--

- Brian Stoler
- sto2@netaxs.com
- brian@feith.com <- work

------------------------------

From: thp@corsa.ucr.edu (tom payne)
Subject: Re: VP/ix for Linux?
Date: 1 Jul 1994 17:17:19 GMT

Mike Jagdis (jaggy@purplet.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: * In message <RON.94Jun20130827@draconia.hacktic.nl>, Ron Smits said:

: RS> Beacuse of the ibcs2 compatibility I think it should be
: RS> possible to run the SCO version of VP/ix on a Linux box.

: Oh no it shouldn't :-).

: VP/ix is dependent on a fair number of kernel hooks not least the ones which 
: allow it to directly manipulate the ldt. It would not be trivial to emulate 
: all this junk.

:   No. Merge isn't going to be any better. Use dosemu. If you don't like it, 
: work on it. It'll be easier - trust me :-).

:                                 Mike  
:  

It is my impression (from a brief conversation with Locus founder
Jerry Popek) that Merge provides a virtual 386 in a manner similar to
the IBM virtual machine monitor, VM/370: user-mode instructions run
directly on the host machine, but privileged instructions fault and
are virtualized (faked) by the fault-handler software, e.g., console
writes are virtualized to an X-window. (A difficulty is that the 386
architecture has mode-sensitive instructions that are not priviliged,
i.e., that don't trap in user mode, so Merge uses a special loader
that tweaks occurrences of those opcodes into illegal opcodes, thus
forcing them to trap to a handler that untweaks the instruction and
virtualizes it.)  For background:
  -  "The Origin of the VM/370 Time-Sharing System," 
     R.J. Creasy, 
     IBM J. Res. Develop., Vol 25, No5.  
  -  "Formal Requirements for Virtualizable Third Generation 
     Architectures," 
     Popek and Goldberg, 
     Communications of the ACM, Volume 17, Number 7.

If my impression is correct, one can run DOS/Windows 3.1 (and possibly
even 4.0, when it comes out) directly on the virtualized 386, with the
software thinking that it is running on real hardware.  This provides
the ability to run all well-behaved Windows applications under Unix,
a major goal of the WINE project. 

Two questions arise:

  - What features of System V/386 does Linux lack that prevent it from 
    running Merge?

  - How hard would it be to add such virtual-386 capabilities to DOSEMU?



Tom Payne (thp@cs.ucr.edu)
University of Calif., Riverside




------------------------------

From: hm@seneca.ix.de (Harald Milz)
Subject: Re: dialup connections
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 12:39:13 GMT
Reply-To: hm@seneca.ix.de

Hans Petter Fasteng (hansp@oslonett.no) wrote:
: > Is there a tool developed for this kind of things, or do I have to start my
: > own little project?

Before you do that, it's much simpler to set up UUCP on all of your machines. 

-- 
Harald Milz                             office: hm@ix.de
iX Multiuser Multitasking Magazine      home:   hm@seneca.ix.de
Opinions are mine, not my employer's -- the answer is Forty-two


------------------------------

From: hm@seneca.ix.de (Harald Milz)
Subject: Re: How do I  end a dip/ SLIP session
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 12:41:25 GMT
Reply-To: hm@seneca.ix.de

Ian M. Robertson (imr@muppet.bt.co.uk) wrote:

: > This may be obvious but i cant find it - I run a SLIP connection using dip. How do
: > I hang up the connection ?? . I ve tried killing the dip process but the line remains

Try "dip -k". This isn't described in the man page of my old dip337. I hoped
this was fixed by now. 


-- 
Harald Milz                             office: hm@ix.de
iX Multiuser Multitasking Magazine      home:   hm@seneca.ix.de
Opinions are mine, not my employer's -- the answer is Forty-two


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 12:08:25 EDT
From: Trevor Pendleton <IO81149@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Slackware Linux 2.0

Please disregard last post.  This is what happens if you don't read the
README files.  :)


------------------------------

From: vanpatjm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Jason Van Patten)
Subject: X editors
Date: 3 Jul 1994 17:15:04 GMT

Hi -

        Wasn't exactly sure where to post this, so excuse me if this is the
wrong spot.  I found on sunsite.unc.edu a bunch of useful X based editors, in
particular, asedit and nedit.  What's even better is that some kind soul put 
the binaries up as well.  I have small problems with both and was wondering if
anyone had any clues.

ASEDIT: It only allows a save once in any given session.  If you try to save
again, it comes back with an error, and a message on the console appears 
concerning an illegal cp command.

NEDIT:  Saves files and does everything fine EXCEPT, when you dave a file, it
reverts the file's mode back to defaults ( -rw-r--r-- ) that you have set in
your .cshrc or wherever.  This doesn't bother me much, but if I'm editting a
script file that I've set executable previously, it wipes out the modes.

        I mailed the authors of both, but so far, nada.  Here's the kicker.
Both are motif based editors, and I _DON'T_ have motif.  (fvwm is wonderful)
So, my problem, is that I can't recompile the source, because I don't have
the proper lib's.  (Namely libXm.a)

        Has anyone used these and seen said errors?  If so, were you able to
fix them with a setting or did they require a whole recompilation (which I'm
supposing, but not looking forward to).  Let me know, via email please.  
Thanks.

                                                Jason


--
Jason Van Patten                  | If at first you don't succeed, keep |
Clarkson University               | on sucking till you do succeed.     |
vanpatjm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu  |                     - Curly Howard  |
                                  |                 (The Three Stooges) |
            ** Any opinions expressed here are actually
               yours, you just don't know it yet. **
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 18:30:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Why won't my NN work?........
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.help
From: axbannaz@seldon.cs.twsu.edu (bannazadeh arash)

mywu@cantor.math.purdue.edu (Ming You Wu) writes:
:      Does anybody know how to fix the following problem?
:      a) After I did fdisk(dos), my computer can't be started on hard
: drive, instead , the IBM PS/1 machine asks to enter boot disk each time
: I turn on it.
:       b ) I installed LILO in my computer(4M RAM, 250M hard drive),
: However, some error messge comes up when I reboot it, such as
: " I/O error", " unable to  read superblocks"
:
:    Thanks!
: please email to mywu@math.purdue.edu
:
Hi

for your problem a) i sugest that you low level format your HD and do
the partions (dos) and DOS intalations after that.

fot your problem b) i sugest that again low leve format your HD then
install linux.  since you have 4MB of RAM i sugest that you make swap
file for it. (8MB swap file ) in case you dont know this is it:

                mkswap -c /dev/hda1 8092; swapon /dev/hda1

check your linux documentation to what i wrote is right.

Arash.


------------------------------

From: aevans@kaiwan.com (Alan B. Evans)
Subject: Re: How do I  end a dip/ SLIP session
Date: 2 Jul 1994 21:09:05 -0700

Ian M. Robertson (imr@muppet.bt.co.uk) wrote:
: Hi,

: This may be obvious but i cant find it - I run a SLIP connection using dip. How do
: I hang up the connection ?? . I ve tried killing the dip process but the line remains
: active, I ve tried starting another dip like it says in some FAQ but the second dip
: bombs out when it tries to set the port !. So far my ony success has been to remove the phone 
: cable !!. 

: There must be a better way as I cant persuade the the cron daemon to do that :-)

: ( kernal 1.1.20  and the uri dip )

: Ta in advance
: Ian

: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:       imr@planet.bt.co.uk
:       ian@ajna.demon.co.uk
: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You are correct when you say it is not obvious. Some kind soul posted
it here a long time ago and that's how I found out. Use the -k option
of dip. This works on the client side (caller - not the one being called)

        dip -k

On the system I use it with, you need to be root to use it successfully.
It does it nice and cleanly on the client side. If your SLIP server is
linux also, it doesn't seem to clean up the processes, but it doesn't
keep you from initiating another SLIP connection again.

Alan Evans

-- 
You can reach me at @ :
Internet : aevans@kaiwan.com
ICBM     :   33 39'     North   Cruise  :   33 39' 37"  North
         :  117 59'     West            :  117 59' 54"  West

------------------------------

From: mah@ka4ybr.com (Mark A. Horton KA4YBR)
Subject: Re: OS/2 vs. Linux : Stop this discussion!
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 03:52:24 GMT

Leo L Turetsky (professor+@CMU.EDU) wrote:
: Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.misc: 1-Jul-94 OS/2 vs. Linux : Stop
: this .. by Martin Wiesenfeldt@dali. 
: > I think it's time to stop this thread! Both systems have their pros and 
: > cons, their virtues and limitations. Like many other people I use both 
: > systems in parllel, some tasks I can do better with the first system, 
: > other tasks better with the other one. 
: > If I was not satisfied with one system I could always erase it from my HD 
: > but never would than expect other people to do so, too!

: Did anyone ask for your opinion? I'm having fun... I suspect others are
: too. Don't ruin our fun at the expense of your sanity. Don't read the
: posts. Hitting the 'n' key is hard, huh?

: -Leo

Let's not start another flame-war thread, Leo.  The gentleman has a valid 
point.  Arguments such as this OS/2 vs. Linux [My OS is better than your OS;
My Dad can beat up your Dad; My car's faster/more babe-grabbing than your car.]
never accomplish anything except stroking the egos of those who feel they
must attempt to make themselves heard.  It is not an honest debate since it
is basically a religious issue and thus fails any logical analysis leading
to an unambiguous solution.  Martin is right here.  And yes, one can always
"hit the 'n' key", but then every now and then one is tempted to explore a
thread which has 79 responses in it... usually for a waste of time. :)  
These wars pop up every now and then and then peter out... no harm done 
except for a bit of wasted bandwidth.  If you really just want some good
arguments, take a trip over to some of the talk groups or some of the
advocacy groups!   That can keep one amused for weeks!  With the same
outcome, of course... no one is right, everyone is wrong.... :)

Regards,
Mark

--
"Linux!     Guerrilla UNIX Development     Venimus, Vidimus, Dolavimus."
============================================================
Mark A. Horton       ka4ybr             mah@ka4ybr.atl.ga.us
P.O. Box 747 Decatur GA US 30031-0747         mah@ka4ybr.com
+1.404.371.0291                     33 45 31 N / 084 16 59 W

------------------------------

From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen)
Subject: Re: How do I end a dip/ SLIP session
Reply-To: pe1chl@rabo.nl
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 15:28:18 GMT

In <terryd.773225680@extro> terryd@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Terry Dawson) writes:

>aevans@kaiwan.com (Alan B. Evans) writes:

>>You are correct when you say it is not obvious. Some kind soul posted
>>it here a long time ago and that's how I found out. Use the -k option
>>of dip. This works on the client side (caller - not the one being called)

>>      dip -k

>>On the system I use it with, you need to be root to use it successfully.

>Alan, this means that you do not have the 'dip' permissions set properly.
>dip should be suid root, ie, do:

>chown root dip
>chmod 6750 dip

>then any user should be able to 'dip -k', please also note that
>'dip -k' only works with newer versions of dip, older versions
>required you to 'kill -9 <pid>' them.

no No NO NOOOOOOO!

Why is it that people always think "kill" only works when you pass it
the -9 option??
This has been the cause of much trouble for lots of newbies.
Please don't spread such information all the time!

Once again: "kill <pid>" should work most of the time.
If it doesn't: try "kill -HUP <pid>"
Only if it still refuses to terminate, you can try "kill -9 <pid>".
Using this carelessly will cause nothing but trouble, like serial ports not
working afterwards.  This is because you deny the process you are killing
all possibilities to cleanly restore any changes it made.

Rob
-- 
=========================================================================
| Rob Janssen                | AMPRnet:   rob@pe1chl.ampr.org           |
| e-mail: pe1chl@rabo.nl     | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU     |
=========================================================================

------------------------------


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