Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #363
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sun, 3 Jul 94 03:13:20 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #363, Volume #2                 Sun, 3 Jul 94 03:13:20 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Word Perfect (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: Wordperfect and other Dos questions (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing (Robert Sanders)
  Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2) (Guido Sohne)
  Re: Compressed linux on CD??? (Steve DuChene)
  Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing (Orc)
  Linux MH 6.8.3 under libc-4.5.x (Brandon S. Allbery)
  Re: Only 7000 Linux boxes, Re: Multiport Bored ... (David H Dennis)
  Re: <q> PhotoCD and LinuX (Steve DuChene)
  Slackware 'pkgtool' & 1.1.24 bug!!!! (Bogdan Urma)
  Re: [Q] Where can I buy a BocaBoard BB2016 ? (David H Dennis)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mark@taylor.infi.net (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Word Perfect
Date: 1 Jul 94 02:37:25 GMT

jaggy@purplet.demon.co.uk (Mike Jagdis) writes:

>The X version is a 4MB binary of which the typical RSS is seems to be around 
>2-2.5MB after initial start up.

The X version of SCO Unix WordPerfect is a 6MB binary.

>  This is, of course, a damn good reason why WP should compile a Linux 
>version if they wish to sell to desktop systems as most of that size 
>consists of the X library code which would be better coming from the sahred 
>library :-).

It is a good reason, but it won't happen.  They don't even HAVE a shared
library version for SCO (which I would like, since I use the shared Xlib,
Xmotif, and other shared libraries now).  It is likely they don't have
shared library versions in order to maintain the highest compatibility (at the
cost of memory).
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.infi.net           |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: mark@taylor.infi.net (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Wordperfect and other Dos questions
Date: 1 Jul 94 03:03:25 GMT

simmonr5387@cobra.uni.edu writes:

>I have 2 questions for you all: and forgive me if they are redundant:

>1) Everyone is talking about XWordPerfect and using the sco version of the
>program on linux boxes so a) what is the cost of this package

About $295 for a single SCO license from your favorite Unix vendor. This
is the same retail price as all other versions of WordPerfect.

>and b) has it
>occurred to anyone to call wordperfect and ask them to recompile it in a fomat
>that will not require the use of an emulator on Linux Boxes, and if so

Sorry, but it will not happen.  I don't want to sound negative..... so let's
focus on the positive!  It will run Under Linux!!

>C) is it
>really a pain to get it to run on linux boses? (ie is it worth the effort?)

From what I was told by one who did it: "No".  Your only main hurdle is
the font formats.

>2) The only thing that is preventing me from completely ditching dos are the
>wide variety of alpplications

Like Unix DBase, Unix Lotus 123, Unix WordPerfect, Unix FrameMaker, Unix
CorelDraw, Unix Grammatik, Unix FoxPro, etc  (granted, the list is no where
near as long as for MS-"DOS", but then these are also multi-user, secure
aware, multi-tasking, multi-processing compatible, multi-display, networkable,
etc.... under Unix).

>that are available for dos, exspecially games
>such a Simcity2000, so is there an emulator that will allow you to play these
>without restarting the machine into another environment,

There is a Unix version of Simcity2000.  It is for Sun, currently.  They
MIGHT be convinced to make a suitable X86Unix version.

>if I go to linux Im
>gonna slip line it into the net and the idea of haveing to reboot every time I
>want to kick some but at the latest gavme is not very appealing. Coments,
>suffestions and anything but flames are appreciated 

Perhaps "there is more to life than games"?  Or "get a Nintendo"?  It is
quite difficult to have "killer" games under a real OS because the program
can't easily take over the entire machine and do any thing it wants
(as is the case with MS-"DOS") (including throwing out most of the OS).
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.infi.net           |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: rsanders@mindspring.com (Robert Sanders)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing
Date: 1 Jul 94 03:21:09 GMT

In article <oi4jPv600WB5QmzcdV@andrew.cmu.edu> Leo L Turetsky <professor+@CMU.EDU> writes:

   Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.misc: 30-Jun-94 Re: Linux better
   than OS/2 .. by Robert Sanders@mindsprin 
   > NeXTSTEP is very cool, granted, and I'm sure it's a dream to develop
   > under (and to work under, for that matter), but it's hardly small or
   > especially fast, and the driver support isn't nearly as good as
   > Linux's.  You can't even run it on a 386sx, for chrissake.

   Umm, no. It's not slow... it's probably twice as fast as your average
   486 PC. Driver support is incredible and continues to grow. Why would I
   want to run anything on a 386sx?

How is my operating system going to be faster than my PC?  I can't
claim to know many NeXTSTEP users -- it's not nearly as popular as
Linux -- but I know one who switched to Linux because NeXTSTEP was
much more sluggish than Linux on the same box, and I know another
NeXTSTEP user who's running Linux on an old 4 MB 386 box to do ftp and
mail, and to route between his PPP link and his ethernet.  He
obviously needed to run *something* on a 386, and diehard NeXT fan
though he was, NeXTSTEP obviously didn't cut it on lower end hardware.

Linux does.

  -- Robert

------------------------------

From: wgsohne@tucson.Princeton.EDU (Guido Sohne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS/2 and Linux discussed (Re: TCP/IP: The reason I dumped OS/2)
Date: 30 Jun 94 16:35:23 GMT

In article <PCCARVE.8.000B9D4F@crsgi1.erenj.com>,
>
>Am I reading this correctly?  One ordinary 3.5 inch floppy disk will
>let me install enough of Linux to get a fair impression of how it works?
>I'm limited to news here, but if you'll mail me the ftp site and any
>instructions necessary for this one disk install I'll try it when I get
>back to school in the fall.  My school address is:
>pcarver@physics.rutgers.edu

As always there are preconditions. For the single disk version to give you
a fair impression of how Linux works you must have a NFS server, exported
to you, one of the later kernels etc. 

What the single disk version would do is to mount a remote system via NFS
and do a chroot to it. You would then have access to remote files and
programs and could run X. I have a single disk which I carry around with me
when school is in session and my Linux machine is on the network. I go to
any cluster with PCs having 8M memory (they are networked) and simply
insert the floppy and reboot. Presto - I am running X Windows and have
acces to all the files on my personal machine. Very impressive.

School is not in session and my machine is off the net for the summer and
in storage :(. It hurts, believe me, it really hurts. When we start up
again e-mail me and I will help you achieve this too. It requires a lot of
technical knowledge to set up but once done its easy to use and reuse.

After I'm done with my X session I reboot and the computer gets off its
high and hits the ground hard.

--
Guido
>
>Paul
>
>PS.  I'm using Win 3.1 now, I've just ordered the OS/2 Beta so I would
>be glad to give Linux  vs OS/2 a completely objective apraisal.
>
>
>>Entirely fair my foot. Show me a disk that can install basic OS/2 on
>>your hard drive without inserting anither disk. Linux base is one disk.
>>X is an addon app. Emacs is entriley unnecessary. OpenLook is unneeded.
>>I don't know much about perl and sc but I've been using Linux for a few
>>months and haven't run into them once,... so...
>
>>-Leo
>
>>+----------------------------------------------------------+
>>| Leo Turetsky          |  1) leo@professor.pc.cc.cmu.edu  |
>>| Sigma Nu              |  2) professor@cmu.edu            |
>>| 1055 Morewood Ave.    |  Carnegie-Mellon University      |
>>| Pittsburgh, PA 15213  |  Sophomore, ECE\CS Double Major  |
>>| (412) 862-2963        |  Nugget: SPIN BHBHY, YAXY?       |
>>+----------------------esp---------------------------------+
>
>

------------------------------

From: s0017210@cc.ysu.edu (Steve DuChene)
Subject: Re: Compressed linux on CD???
Date: 3 Jul 1994 05:18:19 GMT

Patrick J. Volkerding (gonzo@magnet.mednet.net) wrote:
: In article <16d.30061994.0405.0NCB789E@timber.com>,
:  <christina.morwood@timber.com> wrote:
: >I was wondering if people would be interested in purchasing a CD
: >(packed with 600 megs worth of shareware) that also contained a FULL
: >compressed version of Linux? I believe the distribution is
: >Slackware, but I'll verify that first.  I receive any updates
: >made for this distribution directly from the author via satellite.

: 1. I don't have a satellite. ;^)

: 2. Everything in Slackware is already compressed, except for the various 
: index files that are usually only a couple of K apiece. If you compress 
: them again, they'll probably actually grow in size. 

        Pat:    Perhaps this person seen the *.tgz extensions on the files
        and figured since they were not *.zip files they weren't
        compressed!
        Also as far as point #1 Maybe she is getting her distribution
        direct from Mr. Slackware!  :-) I think he has a satellite!
-- 
| Steven A. DuChene   sduchene@cis.ysu.edu  or  s0017210@cc.ysu.edu      
| Youngstown State University  | Computer Science / Math / Mech. Eng.
|They all laughed at Albert Einstein. They all laughed at Columbus. 
|Unfortunately, they also all laughed at Bozo the Clown. 

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: orc@pell.com (Orc)
Subject: Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 03:37:51 GMT

In article <Qi5QRB200YUnIBTZ0w@andrew.cmu.edu>,
Leo L Turetsky  <professor+@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>[...] but show me people who use
>Linux everyday, with no other OS, and don't have Internet access.

   Try fingering pell.com, just for grins.  Can't do it, can you?
Now why don't you shut up and stop inciting flamefests?

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ orc@pell.com
                  \/

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.mail.mh
From: bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery)
Subject: Linux MH 6.8.3 under libc-4.5.x
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 01:07:58 GMT

Well, I have now built a (non-shared) MH which can be built under libc-4.5.x.
Unfortunately, I have to start over :-( because I wiped some patches and then
discovered I needed them anyway...

I will *try* to come up with reasonable shared library support, but as a
separate project; people want libc-4.5 compatible patches now.  I'll try to
have coherent pre/post-patches by the end of the long weekend.  Proper shared
library support may make a Debian release possible again.  (There's no way to
be compatible with the Debian source package guidelines with the post-patch
nonsense... and precious little chance with it; Debian thinks it has the One
True Way to build source packages, but UCI doesn't necessarily agree...)

++Brandon
-- 
Brandon S. Allbery         kf8nh@44.70.4.88               bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org
Friends don't let friends load Windows NT (tnx Sun)    A Linux iBCS2 developer
  The Witness (the Universe's biggest practical joker) is at it again... who
  else would pit the U.S. soccer team against Brazil on the Fourth of July?!

------------------------------

From: dhd@netcom.com (David H Dennis)
Subject: Re: Only 7000 Linux boxes, Re: Multiport Bored ...
Date: 1 Jul 94 03:41:25 GMT

It seems to me that the people who say that Linux drivers are unlikely to
be made on pure commercial grounds are unlikely to be correct.  They are
confusing DRIVERS with PRODUCTS.  

If I could reasonably project 100 additional purchases of my $ 100 [wholesale]
product, that would give me $ 10,000 in additional sales.  With a 50% margin
on costs, that would be a $ 5,000 additional profit.  If this just required
the release of information to Linux people and an hour or so of clarifications,
I'd say this would make a lot of sense.  If I wanted to do my own driver
and worked a week or two to do it, I'd probably say that I roughly broke
even.  I think most real-world companies would consider the investment so
minimal that supporting Linux would be worth a shot.

If you asked this company to develop a special PRODUCT for Linux, they
would - quite rightly - laugh in your face.  But asking them to support
Linux isn't that costly or unreasonable.

D

------------------------------

From: s0017210@cc.ysu.edu (Steve DuChene)
Subject: Re: <q> PhotoCD and LinuX
Date: 3 Jul 1994 05:49:56 GMT

Eberhard Moenkeberg (Eberhard_Moenkeberg@p27.rollo.central.de) wrote:

: Hello Tim Bass and all others,

: on 27.06.94 Tim Bass wrote to All in USENET.COMP.OS.LINUX.MISC:

        Stuff Deleted here...
        
: You are reflecting on "XA format" CDROMs.

: Some drives can handle it, others not.

: Some drives handle it transparently, some need to get switched
: into an other mode and some more things.

: Currently, the only driver capable of the latter method is
: sbpcd, the driver for the Matsushita/Panasonic drives.

: Greetings ... Eberhard

        Sounds like Eberhard is justifiably proud of his driver! :-)
        Kind of like Bill Gates saying the only software that runs
        Windows apps is MS Windows! :-)
-- 
| Steven A. DuChene   sduchene@cis.ysu.edu  or  s0017210@cc.ysu.edu      
| Youngstown State University  | Computer Science / Math / Mech. Eng.
|They all laughed at Albert Einstein. They all laughed at Columbus. 
|Unfortunately, they also all laughed at Bozo the Clown. 

------------------------------

From: bogdan@crl.com (Bogdan Urma)
Subject: Slackware 'pkgtool' & 1.1.24 bug!!!!
Date: 1 Jul 94 03:54:26 GMT


     I've just come across a VERY VERY weird problem with the
new 1.1.24 kernel, and possibly earlier 1.1.xx kernels. It has
to do with the 'pkgtool' program in Slackware 1.2.0.x. 

Problem: 
        When I run pkgtool and choose remove packages from the
menu, a list of all installed packages comes up. Well here's the weird
thing: While moving the cursor with the up and down keys to select packages
to remove, the program crashes and exits!! The up and down keys, which
work normally anywhere else, seem to send weird characters in remove section
of pkgtool. If you have a new kernel and Slackware 1.2.0.x, please try this
and let me know if it happens to you too. Scroll up and down a few times
in the remove part of pkgtool and see if the program crashes.

Please try this at home !

Thanks,
Bogdan Urma
bogdan@crl.com

------------------------------

From: dhd@netcom.com (David H Dennis)
Subject: Re: [Q] Where can I buy a BocaBoard BB2016 ?
Date: 1 Jul 94 03:59:05 GMT

[The following FAQ is my typical response to anyone asking questions about
the BocaBoard whose answers are included herein].

BOCA-FAQ
Installing a Boca 16-port serial card (Boca 2016) with Linux
Release 3.0 : 30 June 1994

This FAQ is being maintained by David H Dennis, dhd@netcom.com, to try and
help any other individuals who may have acquired a BocaBoard, stared at it
and found out that it didn't seem to do anything.

Richard Shetron (multics@hermes.acm.rpi.edu) contributed additional
information to this FAQ effort.  His new business should be an excellent
source for Boca cards and related products.  You should also mail him
if you are interested in continued development efforts for support of
the card; he is planning patches to the kernel to allow multiple cards
in one system.

Manufacturer of the Boca 2016 was previously suspended to fix an
unspecified problem.  Production has now been resumed with a card
that fixes some bugs in the original design.  My present card has
now worked flawlessly on my (currently) four modem system for about
two months.

A couple of people have asked for information on the smaller Boca 2004
and Boca 2008 cards.  According to the Serial FAQ, these cards do not
have modem control, and are thus unusable if you want to attach modems
to your system.  Since it's such a good deal (about $ 235), I strongly
recomment purchase of the 16-port card.  Since the cables are a healthy
percentage of the board's cost, I'd recommend getting the 16-port card
with as many cables as you need now, and then expanding it as necessary.

The information here was obtained by begging many people for help.  
Unfortunately, I have forgotten their names due to a pressing need
for disk space on my Netcom account.  :-(  Nonetheless, I thank them
very much for their assistance when things looked blackest.  This is
my way of paying some of that back.

At the end of this document, there is additional information on cabling,
and some comments on Boca customer service and availability.

WHAT DO YOU NEED TO DO TO INSTALL A BOCABOARD?

In outline, the following:

1 The board itself and its manuals

2 Your Linux source tree

3 Patience

Here's the basic procedure:

RECOMPILING THE KERNEL

The first step is to change your kernel so that it knows you have a BocaBoard.
Unfortunately, this is not a part of the configure script; you must go in and
modify the source by hand.  This consists of putting the following line at
the beginning of linux/drivers/char/serial.c:

   #define CONFIG_BOCA  1

You can then recompile your kernel using the instructions included with the
source tree.  I recommend running the new kernel from a floppy until you're
very sure it works; otherwise, the procedure for getting back your system
is mind-numbing at best.

There is an alternative for those who don't want to dig into their kernel
internals.  I'm putting this second because I cannot verify that it works.
But, contributed by stephie@hermes.acm.rpi.edu (Stephanie Gilgut) via 
the aforementioned Richard Shetron, here it is:

In /usr/src/linux (kernel build area), edit config.in.  Add the line 

   bool 'BocaBoard Serial Interface support' CONFIG_BOCA y

Place the line in the section for character devices.  Do:

  make clean
  make config

Answer the BOCA question yes; it should default to yes.  Then do

    make dep

Then compile your kernel as normal.

At least to me, digging into my kernel and re-compiling it was quite a 
stressful venture!  Relax; as long as you copy it to a floppy, your new
kernel is completely harmless.  It won't bite!  Honest!  :-)

INSTALLING THE CARD

The default address on both the card and the Linux software for the
configuration is 0x100; leave that alone.  The card probably won't
work with Linux at all if you try changing it.  Set the IRQ on the card to
Linux' default of 12.  If you want to change the IRQ, you will have to
search for "BOCA_FLAGS" in the file.  You will find lines like this:

        { BASE_BAUD, 0x100, 12, BOCA_FLAGS },   /* ttyS16 */
        { BASE_BAUD, 0x108, 12, BOCA_FLAGS },   /* ttyS17 */
        ...

You can change the IRQ from 12 by changing the 12 to any number.  I have
not tried this, however.  

TELLING LINUX ABOUT YOUR CARD

Once you have compiled your new kernel, switch off the machine and install
the card.  Then, turn your machine on with the new kernel floppy in the
drive.  If the installation succeeded, you should hear all sorts of 
strange stuff about 16550 UARTS being connected to ttyS16-ttyS32.  The
system will then come up normally.

The odds are pretty good that you don't actually have entries in /dev
for those lines.  Remember that they start at 16 and go on to 32.  If
you look at the source code, you'll see why; support for other cards
is included in the code for lower line numbers.  Creating them is
pretty simple, once you know the trick.

> To create entries for dial-out lines (where you call out), type:

    mknod /dev/cuaxx c 4 N

n = 64 + <line number>.  The 'c' indicates that your device is a character
special file, such as a terminal.  'b' special files are disk drives and
similar devices.

For example, to create the first couple of lines on your board, type:

    mknod /dev/cua16 c 4 80
    mknod /dev/cua17 c 4 81
     ...

> To create dial-in lines (where users call you), type

    mknod /dev/ttyxx c 5 n

where N is the same as described above.  For example, to create the first
couple of lines on your BocaBoard, type:

    mknod /dev/tty16 c 5 80
    mknod /dev/tty17 c 5 81
      ...
  
Richard Shetron tells us that we should be able to use

    MAKEDEV /dev/tty16
    ...

Since I had only made the first four ports (because I only have four
phone lines right now), I decided to try this out.  Unfortunately, the
command doesn't exist on my system; whether it works for you is
probably distribution-dependent.

You may note that we say "/dev/tty16" instead of "/dev/ttyS16".  This is
VERY IMPORTANT; for the exact reason, see the end of the FAQ.

It is recommended that you create both dial in and dial out lines for
each port, so that you have maximum flexibility.  It turns out to be
very handy to call another line of your system by activating one of your
lines as dial-out and calling your main number.  I've done this already
and it works great!  It's most useful for checking how things look "on
the other side of the fence"; I used it to find out how my software looked
at 2400bps.  (It's slower than the Linux console.  A LOT slower, in fact).

Once you've finished with this, you can add entries to your inittab file
in the same way as you would for a standard ttySx entry, and the modems
or terminals should come up!

COMMENTS ON BOCA BOARD PERFORMANCE AND SERVICE

When I originally bought my card, I had to use a special box with it
that basically served as an adapter between the BocaBoard cabling system
and the typical DB-25 (25-pinn serial) cables you have for your modems.
This box is no longer available.

Richard Shetron <multics@hermes.acm.rpi.edu> is now a Boca dealer and
is probably your best source for buying a new card.  He is also
willing to make up cables for Boca Card owners.  A typical modem cable
will cost about $ 8.50.  Drop him a line for current pricing and more
information.  He is also selling Boca cards for what look like very
competitive pricing, at least after a glance at his preliminary price
sheet.  Others have told me that a company called Black Box sells
similar cables for less, but Richard definitely does seem to be the
vendor of choice for the board itself.

Only one port of my first Boca 2016 worked.  I called Boca, expecting to
hear a long string of questions and advice.  When they said, "Linux?
What's that?" I feared the worst.  However, upon hearing my actual problem,
they cheerfully told me that the card was defective and I should send it
back; full 5-year factory warranty, 30-days exchange.  I was struck by how
cheery the lady was.  It was as though they were expecting the worst, and
very kindly making the most of it!  

I had my hardware guy exchange the card.  Unfortunately, the cards were
back-ordered and they took about two more weeks to give me my new card.
I have to say that I was quite annoyed at this, since I was anxiously
chomping at the bit to get this thing up and running.

Some people have problems with ports past the first eight.  I have tested
my card up to port 11 and all the ports appear to be working.  Boca Research
quality control may be lacking; I would recommend that people with troubles
with the card call Boca and deal with them directly.  I suspect that if I'd
exchanged the card directly through the factory I would have had better
service than through my dealer.  The factory people were all quite nice
and eager to please.

Right now, I have only four phone lines. I bought the 16-port card for
two reasons: Because it has modem control, unlike the smaller ones,
and in anticipation of future expansion.  My replacement Boca card has
worked flawlessly since then and so far I am very happy with it.

If you want to check out Linux performance with the card, or take a
look at my original Internet-oriented BBS software, you can reach my
BBS/Internet service provider at (818) 997-7500.  Equipment used to
run the system: 486DX2/66; 20mb RAM; 2-1.8GB Quantum hard drives;
Cirrus Logic video card; NEC 4FG monitor; SMC Ultra Ethernet card;
Sun 3/60 workstation with 12MB RAM, 19" color monitor and 1.2GB hard disk

If you've found this FAQ helpful, or if you have more information to add,
I'd enjoy hearing from you.  My current electronic mail address is
dhd@netcom.com.  If that bounces, also try david@amazing.com, which is my
Linux box.

LINUX BUG?  Bizarre problem with 'who' and getname()

I have had one major problem using the card with Linux, and it's been
confirmed by at least one other person.  The 'who' command often does
not pick up people who are logged in through the BocaBoard's ports.
As a general rule, you'll have one user logged in to the board and it
will work fine.  Once another user logs on, his ID takes the original
user's position in the who.  Or sometimes someone will log in and
not appear in the who at all.

This is due to a quirk in the workings of the structure that contains
who information; only two characters are allocated for the port name.
The solution is to create ports in the form "/dev/tty16" instead of
"/dev/ttyS16" - in other words, remove the 'S' and things will work fine.
My thanks to [people whose names I will have to dig up] for contributing
this information.

------------------------------


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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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