Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #322
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Mon, 27 Jun 94 16:13:19 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #322, Volume #2                Mon, 27 Jun 94 16:13:19 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Do drivers exist for these PCI cards? (Alan Krantz)
  Re: Looking for GNU-SQL (GSQL) for Onyx (Roy Hann)
  Re: BT445S explodes & takes out HD (Bob Kupiec)
  Re: SLIP sessions HANGING (Roy Hann)
  Re: Only 7000 Linux boxes, Re: Multiport Bored ... (randy hyde)
  Re: Umsdos+Swap (Danny Gould)
  Re: Why won't my NN work?........ (Martin Schulze)
  WORM drives and linux (Brian Quandt)
  Re: BT445S explodes & takes out HD (Bao Chau Ha)
  Re: Why cannot xterm use -bg option in .xinitrc ? (Harvey J. Stein)
  Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing (Tim Cutts)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: atk@agua (Alan Krantz)
Subject: Re: Do drivers exist for these PCI cards?
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 15:39:44 GMT

Drew Eckhardt (drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu) wrote:

: The NCR53c810 based PCI boards work fine with the ALPHA Linux 
: driver, although features are currently a little lacking - one SCSI 
: command at a time, no synchronous negotiation, although scatter/gather is 
: supported.        Other than that, the driver appears solid.  The usual 
: DOS ASPI/CAM, 32 bit windows, OS/2, WinNT, and SCO unix
: drivers are available.  A FREE BSD driver is in alpha test,
: and NeXTstep driver is purportedly available.  The NCR53c810
: based controllers surpassed both the Adaptec 2940 and 
: Buslogic BT-946 boards in C't magazine's DOS performance
: tests.  The NCR53c810 boards are also the cheapest of all 
: three, with one vendor (Technoland) having them for $70 
: in quantity 1.

Does anyone know where a NCR53c810 board can be purchased (thumbing through
computer shoppers didn't show much). Also, the FreeBSD driver was undergoing
beta testing as of last week.

atk

------------------------------

From: rhh@tachy.uah.ualberta.ca (Roy Hann)
Subject: Re: Looking for GNU-SQL (GSQL) for Onyx
Date: 27 Jun 1994 14:05:24 GMT

dbrow42@rfc.comm.harris.com (David C. Brown) writes:
: I get the message .. QUEL > SQL.  Nevertheless, let me repeat ...
: 
: Can anyone point me to the GSQL that seems to be required by Onyx?
: I'd like to try to get SQL and 4GL working with Ingres89 

Since you won't be deflected from your chosen path, try contacting
Michael Koehne at kraehe@bakunin.north.de for further information.

========================================================================

Roy Hann
Senior Analyst, Information Systems        rhh@tachy.uah.ualberta.ca
University of Alberta Hospitals            (MIME-capable mail agent)
WMC 2C2.21, 8440-112th Street,     
Edmonton, Alberta                          Tel: (403)492-4367
T6G 0N4                                    FAX: (403)492-3090
Canada

PLEASE: No shipments by courier from outside Canada; use regular mail.
========================================================================

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.periphs.scsi,sci.electronics
From: kupiec@tigger.jvnc.net (Bob Kupiec)
Subject: Re: BT445S explodes & takes out HD
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 18:11:18 GMT

In <1994Jun26.134651.22059@tigger.jvnc.net>, kupiec@tigger.jvnc.net writes:
>Well, what else can I say?  I heard a small "pop" sound and the smell
>of fried electronics. :-( The BT445S complained that the fuse was blown
>upon startup.  The diags LED was constantly flashing, indicating the
>same failure.
>
>Upon closer inspection, it looked like a cap and resistor got fried on
>the board.  It looks like these were protecting the SCSI bus.
>
>It seems like my Micropolis [4110S] HD is also dead.  It won't spin up when
>power is applied to it.

I did some poking around on both the BT445S card and the MC4110S.
Here's what I found:

On the BT445S:
o SCSI pin 26 (TERMPWR) is shorted to GND on SCSI BUS.
o SCSI pin 26 seems to connect to the failed resistor and cap.

On the MC4110S:
o SCSI bus is *NOT* shorted out.
o Fuse on 4110S mainboard is blown.  This fuse leads to pin 26 (TERMPWR)
  on SCSI bus.

My CDROM:
o Condition unknown.  I'm not sure if this got hit too.

Questions:

TERMPWR:  The resistor packs are on the card and on the HD.  The setup
is like this:   computer --- BT445S --- CDROM --- Hard Drive
                          (terminated)           (terminated)

I have removed the application of TERMPWR from the CDROM to the BUS.
The HD DOES apply +5 to the SCSI BUS.
The BT445S also DOES apply +5 to the SCSI BUS. (I think?)

Is setup OK?  Can I remove the +5 to SCSI bus from the HD?  My friend
has this same setup, shall I warn him before his card blows up?

Thanks!
-- 
Bob Kupiec  (HAM: N3MML) Phone: 609-897-7319             JvNC (GES, Inc.)
Network Operations            & 800-35-TIGER x7319      3 Independence Way
Email: kupiec@jvnc.net    Fax : 609-897-7310            Princeton, NJ 08540

------------------------------

From: rhh@tachy.uah.ualberta.ca (Roy Hann)
Subject: Re: SLIP sessions HANGING
Date: 27 Jun 1994 14:13:42 GMT

bill@bhhome.ci.net (Bill Heiser) writes:
: I am running [trying to run] essentially a full-time SLIP connection to
: my Internet Service Provider (ISP) using a Microcom FAST 28.8 modem.  The
: modem at the other end is a Microcom ES 28.8.  I have recently started having
: troubles with the SLIP session HANGING.  The carrier doesn't drop, but
: individual sessions using the SLIP session hang.  Most susceptible seems
: to be INBOUND TELNET.  I'll be in the middle of typing something or receiving
: a screen of text, and it will just stop, "never" to continue.  The other day
: I also experienced this type of thing during a download of an 800kb file using 
: Mosaic.

I appear to be having the exact same problem with PPP (in fact I just
booted OS/2 to type this just in case it happens again!).  I can 
_usually_ up-/down-load monster files, but I can't count on it, and
anything interactive like an rlogin or a telnet is pretty much
guaranteed to lock up after a few minutes.  If I flip to another
virtual terminal though, the line is still up and I can start another
rlogin and it works for a while too.

========================================================================

Roy Hann
Senior Analyst, Information Systems        rhh@tachy.uah.ualberta.ca
University of Alberta Hospitals            (MIME-capable mail agent)
WMC 2C2.21, 8440-112th Street,     
Edmonton, Alberta                          Tel: (403)492-4367
T6G 0N4                                    FAX: (403)492-3090
Canada

PLEASE: No shipments by courier from outside Canada; use regular mail.
========================================================================

------------------------------

From: rhyde@cuda.ucr.EDU (randy hyde)
Subject: Re: Only 7000 Linux boxes, Re: Multiport Bored ...
Date: 24 Jun 1994 21:01:20 GMT

>>>>
        All I can say is "right on!"  Given this no-risk-taking, no-one-else
is-doing-it, play-it-safe-at-all-costs approach to research and development,
such companies are ready targets for leaner, meaner, more speculative 
companies willing to take a calculated risk and thus reap the rewards 
commensurate with such risks whilst the "business-as-usual" crowd will wake
up one day and wonder what happened to their market share.

.. Lots of examples which don't apply to the Linux community

        In summary, "bogosystems" numbers notwithstanding, the market does 
exist... it currently tends to be a "hacker" environment because of a LACK of
equipment and software vendor support... however, even at that, Linux is 
appearing in more and more "behind the scenes" real-world applications, from
network routers to automated instrument monitoring to terminal servers (a
386 running Linux with two 4-port cards and an ethernet card is cheaper than
an 8-port serial sbus card for a Sun workstation and performs better!)

.. more stuff deleted..

        To specifically address the issue of 7,000 registered Linux sites,
let's perform a quickie potential cost/benefit analysis exercise right here.
        Installed base:                         = 7,000 systems
        Potential market (of base)      5%      = 350 systems.
        Board retail                            = $300.00
        Estimated total revenue (5 % of Market) = $105,000.00
        Estimated cost of goods sold    50%     = $52,500.00 
                (if you can't sustain this, get out of the business!)
        Breakeven point expenditure for R&D     = $52,500.00
So, we have $52,500.00 available for developing the Linux-specific software
drivers.  Anyone in net-land willing to spend a month or two (I know this
is a high estimate of the time involved, bear with me!) of their time
for $52,500.00?
<<<<<

Linux users have a very myopic view of the world.
Okay, I'm sorry, the few who are posting messages like the above have the
myopic view.  Not to mention, there is very little marketing sense here.


As an example, let's liberally assume there are 50,000 Linux boxes out there.
Quite honestly, the installed base is of no interest to most card manufacturers.
Indeed, the "exponential growth" (easy when there is a small installed base, btw)
is of no interest.  The numbers above suggest that the card manufacturer has
a potential market of 5% of the installed base.  This is crazy.  Now I've long
forgotten whether this thread was complaining about support for ethernet cards
or for multiport serial cards, but the end result is approximately the same,
there is insufficient market to get excited about it.  Why?  Consider my
revised numbers:

Installed base:         50,000 systems (not *users*, which could be higher).

Potential market:  tiny, tiny fraction of installed base.  Why?  Because 99%
of the Linux market is single-user non-networked.  Of the remaining 1%, not
everyone will buy the card from the manufacturer.  Let's say they get 20%,
or 0.2% of the installed base (a number I feel is *very* high).  That gives
us 100 cards.  But 100 vs. 350 cards is not the issue.  We're talking about
the *installed* base here.  Quite honestly, most of the installed base already
has all the hardware it's going to get.  Existing users have already purchased
a solution they're happy with, or they've given up and have gone to another
system.  I can't imagine there are a large number of people sitting around
saying "Gee, I'll put together this system and *wait* for some nice company
to write a driver for me."  I'm sure there are *some* people out there doing
this, but not very many.

No, traditionally sales of things like multiport cards are made at the same time
the user purchases an entire system.  Most people are not hackers.  They do not
run an operating system because it's "cool".  They do so because it solves a
problem for them.  If Linux does not currently solve that problem, they will not
purchase a Linux machine and wait for a solution to invent itself.  Therefore,
the board manufacturer has to consider future sales which could use their
particular device and the amount of competition they face in the marketplace.

Your $52,500 figure doesn't include some mundane things like advertising,
overhead, maintenance, and *God help us*, PROFIT.   Quite frankly, if I was
a company selling boards in the DOS/Windows/UNIX market, and additional 350
boards would be meaningless to me in the long run.  Perhaps the good will
achieved by throwing money away on such devices ("Gee, if they wrote a driver
for Linux they're probabaly willing to spend $$$ on any future OS I'm interested
in; this is a good sign.") would be worth it, I don't know.

>>>>
        So, Marketeers, take the numbers to your finance guys; substitute
your own margins and estimated market penetration estimates; work it out;
TAKE A LITTLE RISK!; or roll over and die like so many coroporations have
done... just don't complain about "unfair competition" to me... I'll be
buying products for myself and my clients from companies that have shown
me they have a clue as to what engineering, competition, and marketing are
really about - the customer!
<<<<

Many companies have died because they took unnecessary risks.  The fact that
some company has lost your one sale, or the sale of 350 boards to the Linux
community, means nothing to them.  As for the competition, if there really
is competition for this kind of stuff, what are we arguing about?

Finally, you, like so many people, seem to think that the customer is king.
Forget it.  This is a marketing slogan, nothing else.  The company is king.
And if it is public, the shareholders are king.  The only reason the
customer gets any consideration at all is because this is often good for the
company.  However, they cannot keep everyone happy, so they have to choose
the largest segment of the market.  Alas, Linux is not that group.

>>>>
        I apologise for the length of this post, but perhaps it will 
provide some ammunition to throw at the highly paid corporate risk-takers
who are afraid to do so.
<<<<
I will forgive you if you will forgive me :-)

------------------------------

From: dgould@helix.nih.gov (Danny Gould)
Subject: Re: Umsdos+Swap
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 01:52:39 GMT

In article <2udgqb$ovs@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> rostam@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Eugene Mesgar) writes:
>John Bryan (jhonsrid@drealm.drealm.org) wrote:
>:  
>: Btw, the youngest linux user I know is 15. Is that some kind of record?
>:  
>
>I started Linux when I was 14, Now I am 15. I installed it about 5 months
>ago.. I love it..
>
>-em

I know people that just turned 14 that probably beat you out by a few
months.  I didn't start running it till I was 15, and not 24hr/day for my
SLIP connection till recently (I am 16).  I am sure that there are younger
users, as I have been using other UNIces since I was 13.


-- 
Danny Gould   N3HCH   Supercomputer/Internet Addict
Montgomery Blair High School    UNIX sysop
CapAccess, DC Area Public Access Networking Project Youth Council Co-Pres.
LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.help
From: joey@infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)
Subject: Re: Why won't my NN work?........
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 11:18:27 GMT

tsurikov@phakt.usc.edu (Michael Tsurikov) writes:


}       I just recently helped set up Linux Slackware 1.0.8 on a 386
}with 8MB RAM and 120MB HD.  Everything seems to run fine... except for
}the NN news reader that I installed from ftp.cdrom.com (release 6.4.18).
}When I type 'nn' at the prompt, NN gives the message "nnmaster has not
}updated database in 214528 hours" [I think the number changes], and then
}"No News".  Another program, TRN, which I know should also be a news-
}reader, gives another message -- "no default: Unknown host."  "News server
}no default unavailable, try again later."

For nn you have to run nnmaster periodically or run in daemon mode and
send him a signal periodically.

First can be done by this entry in nn's crontab:

--
#run nnmaster to update databases periodically
51,23 * * * *   /usr/local/lib/nn/nnmaster -O 14 -e

# run nnmaster to expire articles after they have been expired
47 4 * * * /usr/local/lib/nn/nnmaster -F ""

#run nnmaster to check databases once per week
0 3     1-31 *  6       /usr/local/lib/nn/nnmaster -C

#save copies of old active files
0 0 * * *       /usr/local/lib/nn/back_act
--
This will cause a library of databases in /var/spoo/nndb/* to ...

I'm not sure, but maybe trn needs an NNTP-Server which you might not
set up correctly. Perhaps it also needs a specific server. A "strings
trn|more" should help examining this.

Joey

-- 
\  Martin Schulze * Artillerieweg 55a * 26129 Oldenburg * 77 805 84 \
 \  joey@infodrom.north.de                     Line 0 & Fax: 777 884 \
  \  2:2426/2060.4    Gimme the Future with a modern Girl  - Meatloaf \

------------------------------

From: quandt@cs.umr.edu (Brian Quandt)
Subject: WORM drives and linux
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 1994 05:11:54 GMT

Can I create an ISO9660 (hsfs)  type disk using linux and a WORM
drive.  That is does linux have support for worm drives?  I've
seen some mention of the support within the code (scsi drivers).
But does it work (hate to spend $10 a pop to find out that it does not).
Let me know if anyone already does.

thanks

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.periphs.scsi,sci.electronics
From: habaoch@eng.auburn.edu (Bao Chau Ha)
Subject: Re: BT445S explodes & takes out HD
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 18:36:45 GMT

In article <1994Jun27.181118.8245@tigger.jvnc.net> kupiec@tigger.jvnc.net (Bob Kupiec) writes:
>Questions:
>
>TERMPWR:  The resistor packs are on the card and on the HD.  The setup
>is like this:   computer --- BT445S --- CDROM --- Hard Drive
>                          (terminated)           (terminated)
>
>I have removed the application of TERMPWR from the CDROM to the BUS.
>The HD DOES apply +5 to the SCSI BUS.
>The BT445S also DOES apply +5 to the SCSI BUS. (I think?)
>
>Is setup OK?  Can I remove the +5 to SCSI bus from the HD?  My friend
>has this same setup, shall I warn him before his card blows up?
>
I don't think the HD should apply TERMPWR to the SCSI bus, especially
with Buslogic SCSI host adapters.  I believe that you will have
internittent problems, or at least I did until Buslogic Tech Support
told me to remove the HD's TERMPWR from the SCSI bus.

Bao

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Why cannot xterm use -bg option in .xinitrc ?
From: hjstein@sunset.huji.ac.il (Harvey J. Stein)
Date: 27 Jun 94 17:19:46

In article <1994Jun26.024024.5037@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>
viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Dragon Fly) writes:

   I'm customising X-windows and I have run
   onto the following puzzle:
   I can run xterm (or xclock or whatever else)
   with -bg <color> option (background color)
   from other xterm without any problem. However when I try
   to use the very same option, say, when running
   xterm (or xclock) from .xinitrc or from twm manager,
   they kick me off saying that that -bg option is
   illegal !!!  So the only way I can change the
   background color in xterm is by running it from
   other xterm or put the color as default in app-defaults/XTerm
   file. Why is it ?

You could also put the color as your default in your .Xdefaults file.

Good luck,

--
Harvey J. Stein
Berger Financial Research

------------------------------

From: tjrc1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Tim Cutts)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux better than OS/2 for net surfing
Date: 27 Jun 1994 15:56:02 GMT

bill@msi.com (Bill Poitras) writes:

>Colin Dunn (dunnc@ucsub.Colorado.EDU) wrote:

>: I have always wondered about the talk about "OS/2 demanding more of the
>: hardware" than Windows 3.1. After all, Windows also "multitasks" (though
>: it uses an inferior algorithm to do so). Windows also hits on video cards,
>: sound cards, etc. And on my system, which I hand-picked out of decent
>: components, I still get a lot more crashes in OS/2 than in Windows 3.1.
>: I wish this weren't so; I would prefer OS/2's multitasking any day.

>I would say that most of your crashes are poorly debugged device drivers.  
>However, OS/2 isn't without bugs.  That is why they release service packs 
>and bug fixes.

>I usually don't see crashes (I occasionally see a few).  Most of them 
>involve running DOS programs.  And I more often get a hung console, than 
>a crashed system.  So I usually can let any file transfers complete 
>before I hit C-A-D, which syncs my file systems and reboots.

>: >What crash protection ? We all know it's a bad joke. In theory, OS/2 can
>: >eliminate lots of crashes. Problem is when a PM app crashes it can bring 
>: >down the system.

>But it doesn't always.  In fact for me that's rarely the case.

>: Not to mention DOS/Windows applications that bring down the entire system.
>: I saw one OS/2 system in which running the DOS version of Telix would
>: cause the whole system to lock up tight -- so tight it required a hardware
>: reset. Then, of course, OS/2's Workplace Shell and .INI files got screwed
>: up, and the system got less and less stable every day.

IMO, Workplace Shell and Presentation Manager iare the cause of a lot of
OS/2's 'crashes'.  I am in agreement with Bill - it's the console hanging,
often due to a bad PM program.  Linux has precisely the same 'problem' - you
get a complete console lockup if something does an X server grab and doesn't
let go again.  In both operating systems you can log in remotely to fix the
problem, or at least shut down cleanly, as long as you have a telnetd running.

PM is fundamentally flawed in that internally it is almost identical to MS
Windows as far as its API is concerned, and this is  probably the root of a
lot of its problems.

Just because your console locks don't assume the OS has crashed.

Tim.

------------------------------


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