Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #296
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Tue, 21 Jun 94 18:13:52 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #296, Volume #2                Tue, 21 Jun 94 18:13:52 EDT

Contents:
  Re: what sound-cdrom combination is good ?? (Brian McBee)
  Motif Owners: Xephem (Bob Kupiec)
  Re: S3 Support - A bit lacking? (Mark van Hoeij)
  Re: [Q] iBCS2 does not insmod (Eric Youngdale)
  Re: Linux.... On a Sparc? (Anthony L. Kimball)
  Re: Wordperfect for X-Windows (Brandon S. Allbery)
  Re: Wordperfect for X-Windows (Alan Cox)
  Re: NETWORK--Outbound TELNET ok but Inbound TELNET fails (Alan Cox)
  Re: What other notebooks does Linux run on well? (Erik Fortune)
  Setting the timezone? (James D. Levine)
  Need xephem_2.5 binary (Ed Rodda)
  Re: Only 7000 Linux boxes, Re: Multiport Bored ... (Bret Patterson)
  Compiling kernel (RYAN  Colin Patrick)
  Re: Multiport Bored and Linux (Was: future of Unixware) (Wayne Schlitt)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: brian@odot_aix2.isb.odot.state.or.us (Brian McBee)
Subject: Re: what sound-cdrom combination is good ??
Date: 20 Jun 1994 23:32:27 GMT

In article <2acc3e25@p27.f210.n2437.z2.fidonet.org>,
Eberhard Moenkeberg <Eberhard_Moenkeberg@p27.rollo.central.de> wrote:
>on 18.06.94 NGUYEN  SON TRUNG wrote to All in USENET.COMP.OS.LINUX.MISC:
>NST>    I am thinking of getting a CD-ROM drive and a Sound Card and have every
>NST> intention of using it within the Linux environment.  Does anyone have a
>NST> suggestion as to which combination would be good.  Should I get a Sony 33A
>NST> with a
>NST> SB  multiCD or a SB 16 + Creative Lab CDROM ??  I am looking for something
>NST> that works well in  Linux.
>Read /usr/src/linux/drivers/README.sbpcd and guess my advice. ;-)
>Speed, PhotoCD, MultiSession, maximum number of drives are the points.
>Greetings ... Eberhard

I'm using a Panasonic 562 hooked up to a Soundblaster Pro and am very 
satisfied. The only improvement I would make would be to get the 
Soundblaster 16 instead.

Brian

-- 
       Finger me for my PGP public key. Plan globally, attack locally.


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.windows.x.motif
From: kupiec@tigger.jvnc.net (Bob Kupiec)
Subject: Motif Owners: Xephem
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 00:05:29 GMT

If you have Motif on Linux, would you happen to have a binary of
Xepehem 2.5?  Or would you be able to compile it for me?

Both myself and many other Linux users would be grateful for this.

Please send email or ftp a copy to: ftp.jvnc.net, in
/priv/kupiec/incoming.

Thank You.

-- 
Bob Kupiec  (HAM: N3MML) Phone: 609-897-7319             JvNC (GES, Inc.)
Network Operations            & 800-35-TIGER x7319      3 Independence Way
Email: kupiec@jvnc.net    Fax : 609-897-7310            Princeton, NJ 08540

------------------------------

From: hoeij@sci.kun.nl (Mark van Hoeij)
Subject: Re: S3 Support - A bit lacking?
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 09:59:20 GMT

In article <CrIoDv.74t@madhouse.demon.co.uk>, andy@madhouse.demon.co.uk (Andrew Bray) writes:

>>The text-only tty just doesn't display very much information in
>>80x25, and looks downright funny on my 17 inch monitor.
> 
> Even funnier on my 21".  Its a shame I can't use X at a resolution
> higher that 1024x768

You haven't read Videomodes.doc

> to take advantage of this extra size
> (my card has 1MB RAM, and isn't upgradable).

Regards,
 Mark van Hoeij

------------------------------

From: ericy@cais.cais.com (Eric Youngdale)
Subject: Re: [Q] iBCS2 does not insmod
Date: 20 Jun 1994 12:09:20 GMT

In article <CrorLC.168@seneca.ix.de>, Harald Milz <hm@seneca.ix.de> wrote:
>I tried to play around with the iBCS2 emulator. As mentioned in the
>README, I'd expect to flawlessly run iBCS2 with 1.1.15 or later. However,
>all kernels from 1.1.15 to 1.1.19 didn't work with iBCS2 because insmod 
>complained about two symbols not being defined:
>
>root@seneca: /usr/src/ibcs> insmod iBCS 
>_strcmp undefined
>_file_systems undefined
>
>Oops. What have I missed?
>
>1.1.20 breaks the compilation of iBCS2, BTW, because three members of struct
>task_struct are missing in sched.h. This is the part of patch20.gz which 
>causes this:

        Yes, there were some changes which break iBCS2.  As I understand 
it, the concept of an "execution domain" was added, so all of these 
fields were put in one structure and thus you need to dereference a 
pointer to get to them.  If you need ibcs2, then for now you can stay at 
1.1.19, or you can fix it and send the patches (I have not gotten around 
to looking at 1.1.20 yet).

-Eric


-- 
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep.  But I have promises to keep,
And lines to code before I sleep, And lines to code before I sleep."

------------------------------

From: alk@et.msc.edu (Anthony L. Kimball)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Linux.... On a Sparc?
Date: 21 Jun 1994 05:00:03 GMT

I have a sparcstation at home running 4.1.3, and full source,
but you know, if I do a hack on it, it is wasted effort, since
I can't share it with anyone else except other sunos source licensees.
I've been thinking about getting rid of the sparc, and picking up a
pentium, simply because of Linux, but the loss of muscle would hurt.
I might be interested in working on an sbus sparc port of Linux,
say 20 hours/wk or so, if I were convinced that the PPC port was
not going to be a viable alternative before a sparc port could be
completed.


------------------------------

From: bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery)
Subject: Re: Wordperfect for X-Windows
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 11:39:05 GMT

In article <1994Jun20.232324.7639@jakesys.sol.net>, jake@jakesys.sol.net (Jake Buchholz) says:
+---------------
| Demo that I had (was a timed one, ran out last week) installed with a few
| errors (I suspect the bash incompatibility suggested earlier), but worked
| fine, except the "system font" (i.e.  the Row Col Page line at the bottom and
| several dialogs, etc.) seemed to be in a japanese font, not corrupted.
+------------->8

That's the incompatible SNF font provided (intended for ODT; SNF fonts are
rarely portable between servers --- and someone suggested a problem with
XFree86 with respect to SNF fonts as well).  If you replace the SNF fonts with
PCF fonts it works fine.

++Brandon
-- 
Brandon S. Allbery         kf8nh@kf8nh.ampr.org          bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org
Friends don't let friends load Windows NT.              Linux iBCS2 emulation

------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Wordperfect for X-Windows
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 10:45:52 GMT

In article <1994Jun20.222104.19857@taylor.infi.net> mark@taylor.infi.net (Mark A. Davis) writes:
>iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox) writes:
>
>>In article <1994Jun18.040135.28691@escape.widomaker.com> shendrix@escape.widomaker.com (Shannon Hendrix) writes:
>
>>>* old software that is no longer sold should be given to the public 
>>>  domain.  Locking old code away or destroying it is STUPID
>
>>Its not stupid. For most jobs the old stuff is far smaller faster and better.
>     ^^^^
>Are you agreeing with him or disagreeing with him?

Agreeing - but no company would do that because they'd never sell the new
stuff without stopping the old or actually having to _improve_ rather than
grow their software.

Alan


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: NETWORK--Outbound TELNET ok but Inbound TELNET fails
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 10:48:59 GMT

In article <2u5amr$lhu@hearst.cac.psu.edu> HZJ@ECL.PSU.EDU (Houzhi S Jin) writes:
>Hi, I am still having this problem (i.e., outbound TELNET or FTP works
>fine but the inbound TELNET or FTP fails.  The inbound TELNET or FTP
>will work for a few minutes after each outbound network access.)  I
>saw a few other people posted message saying thwy had the same problem.
>Have you guys solved this problem yet?  If so, what is the solution?

I've fold a load of people with misconfigured network routing that have this
problem. People who should be running gated but aren't, people who shouldn't
be running gated but who are, misconfigured campus routers all sorts.

Alan


------------------------------

From: erik@westworld.esd.sgi.com (Erik Fortune)
Subject: Re: What other notebooks does Linux run on well?
Date: 21 Jun 1994 12:14:24 GMT


In article <acc-corp.1122558098B@tigger.jvnc.net>, acc-corp@tigger.jvnc.net writes:
> In Article <GTAYLOR.94Jun13160704@god.ext.tufts.edu>,
> gtaylor@god.ext.tufts.edu (Grant Taylor) wrote:
> >A friend of mine is interested in getting Linux up on a notebook.
> >I've read the Hardware-HOWTO, and its notebook section is kind of
> >sketchy, and none of them looks like the sort he wants to buy.

I'm running Slackware 1.2 (with pcmcia mods from tsx-11 and the 1.1.8 kernel)
on an INSI ECHObook (aka Everex STEP Note).   I'm very happy with the
machine (*nice* machine) and with the ease of getting linux to run on it.

For more information about the ECHObook, you can:
    -  Take a peek in comp.sys.laptops 
    -  drop a note to erik@sgi.com 
    -  look for "Intelligent Notebook Systems Inc" in the advertisers index
       of any recent Computer Shopper
    -  call INSI at 1-800-588-INSI  (In CA, call (408)748-9781).

-- Erik

------------------------------

From: jdl@netcom.com (James D. Levine)
Subject: Setting the timezone?
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 05:31:09 GMT

This ought to be a no-brainer, but I'm not having any luck with my
documentation.

How do I set my local timezone in Linux?

I have been able to specify the correct time with "date -s" in PST (my
local timezone,) however all my applications are retrieving the date/time in
GMT.  

I would guess there is a fairly standard way to do this across Unixes, but I
now realize I've never done it outside of a platform-dependent installer.


James

------------------------------

From: ed@orca.wimsey.bc.ca (Ed Rodda)
Subject: Need xephem_2.5 binary
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 16:07:51 GMT

Hi,

Would some kind soul, who is in possession of the Motif libraries,
please compile the astronomy program xephem, version 2.5 and put the
binary into /pub/Linux/Incoming at sunsite.unc.edu. It can replace the
obsolete binary /pub/Linux/X11/Motif/xephem.tar.z (version 2.4b). The
source can be found at
nic.funet.fi:/pub/astro/progs/unix/xephem_2.5.tar.Z.

You would be doing a great public service.

BTW, there is source for an older version for ascii terminals called
ephem_4.28.tar.Z, located in the same directory at nic.funet.fi. There
is also a compiled DOS version available.

Thank you.

-- 

Ed                      ed@orca.wimsey.bc.ca

------------------------------

From: faustus@zilker.net (Bret Patterson)
Subject: Re: Only 7000 Linux boxes, Re: Multiport Bored ...
Date: 21 Jun 1994 01:48:23 GMT

: Have **YOU** registered **YOUR** Linux system??  I've registered mine.

How do you register your linux system. I've been useing linux for about
a year, reading newsgroups etc and have never heard of this.

I will happily register if it will help anyone out. 

--
=======================================================================
                  Bret Patterson <faustus@zilker.net>  
         For general information requests on Zilker Internet Park:
             info@zilker.net  [automated information response]
      Anonymous FTP from ftp.zilker.net       Voice line: (512)206-3850
Specific information requests can be mailed to: support@zilker.net
=======================================================================

------------------------------

From: ryan@ecf.toronto.edu (RYAN  Colin Patrick)
Subject: Compiling kernel
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 00:42:24 GMT

Help. I want to update the kernel and even simply compile some stuff under
linux but I cant' even make in through "make include". I think I have all the
approriate files: libc, gcc++,includes etc. but I think my problem lies in the
location of these file in relation to the gcc compiler. I figured that I could
modify these item appropriately in the Makefile but it wasn't that simple. Anyone know of a good -FAQ, or even if your could outline a tree structure that you are successfully using, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Colin P. Ryan
ryan@ecf.utoronto.ca


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware
From: wayne@backbone.uucp (Wayne Schlitt)
Subject: Re: Multiport Bored and Linux (Was: future of Unixware)
Reply-To: wayne@cse.unl.edu
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 04:37:57 GMT

In article <CrnJs8.HIt@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
> In article <WAYNE.94Jun16005205@backbone.uucp> wayne@cse.unl.edu writes:
> >In article <CrGLxI.Gux@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
> >> It is a totally useless point that Linux runs this-or-that database vendor,
> >> though it may make people feel good. What's important is that the database
> >> vendor supports Linux. And so far, of the major database vendors are.
> 
> >Most vendors support only SCO, and if you try to run their product on
> >any other version of Unix and have problems, well, gee, upgrade to SCO
> >is the solution.
> 
> As a dealer who faithfully sold Esix for years before picking up
> UnixWare, I don't think you really know how that corner of the
> marketplace worked.
> 
> [ but then goes on to say there are companies that do just what I
>   said they did and that he only cares about a few products... ]

All I can say is that I must have poked around a different corner of
the Unix marketplace than you...


> >Linux is certainly not going to be any worse off than say
> >Coherent or QNX.
> 
> Accurate, but hardly a raging endorsement. Note that QNX has a
> non-trivial amount of third-party support.

Hmm... So you are saying that you think that it is possible for Linux
to have a non-trivial amount of third-party support?



> >> IMO, the reason is that they figure someone who's about to spend >$10K
> >> on their database engine and 4GL, isn't going to piss around arguing
> >> that the OS cost $1500. When you add training, peripherals, wiring,
> >> networking, system design, customization, administration and maintenance,
> >> the difference between the cost of installing (unsupported by the DB
> >> vendor) Linux or (supported) UnixWare is insignificant.
> 
> >Yes, and this exactly the argument that was used to show that Unipress
> >would always dominate the emacs market over GNU emacs.
> 
> I can't believe you would use this silly and useless an analogy.

Nice ad Hominem..

> >Heck, this
> >argument was also used as to why PCs would never replace mainframes.
> 
> Merely because an argument has not worked in a totally different
> situation does not invalidate it here. If you can't refute it, please
> don't resort to this kind of desperation.

Followed by a nice ad Ignorantiam and another ad hominem.

In my opinion, these situations are not totally different and nothing
you have said so far has convinced me otherwise.  If you can not see
the similarities, let me know and I will email you a longer
description.

You are the one who is saying that Linux will "never be used by
someone who is willing to spend >$10k on a system."  It is up to you
to provide prove that this is true, I don't have to prove it false.
All I have to do is give evidence that your logic is incomplete or
faulty.


> >The flaw in this logic is that once you have brought something in,
> >whether it is Linux, OS/2 or UW, you have already made the really huge
> >investment in installation, training, etc.  In order to _keep_ this
> >investment, you will fight to get support on what you have.
> 
> Welcome to the real world. Applications drive the OS, not vice versa.
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> First you pick the applications/4GLs/necessary hardware and only then
> pick the right OS engine, based on the intersection of what's supported
> by the applications.

I don't know which world you live in, but in the world that I live in
but for the most part, _this_is_not_true_.  In many ways I wish what
you said was true, but for a vast majority of the time it isn't.


This is often true for first time buyers, or where the cost and the
benefits of the application can justify buying a complete new system.
Even then the customers often have (IMHO) wrong ideas about what will
be best and often won't change.  Things like "Well, DOS systems _must_
be cheaper", or "I only want Open Systems", or "If it isn't from IBM
we wont buy it", or "PC hardware must be cheaper" or "Mainframe
hardware must be more reliable", etc. 

For secondary purchase, most people look at only the applications that
already run on whatever OS and hardware that they have.  Only if the
functionality that they really want can't be found for that
combination or if the functionality/price ratio isn't high enough do
they start looking at changing either the OS or the hardware.  They
may also start looking to convince someone to do better on that
particular OS/hardware combination.

I don't know about you, but I don't want an Amiga on my desk because
it has the best paint program and a Mac because it has the best word
processor and a RISC box because it runs the database the best and a
PC because of the spread sheet.  I will choose one (or maybe a few) of
those programs as the one I am really interested in and I will make
compromises on the rest.  Actually, even this isn't true.  I will
choose one of these combinations of OS and hardware at some point in
the past, and make compromises until I can find something that
justifies switching everything to a new system.  Usually, this just
means switching hardware or the version of the OS.



This is where things like PCs, GNU Emacs, or Linux come in.  Because
they are much cheaper than the alternatives, they are brought in as a
low-cost item for non-critical applications.  The two areas that tend
to open new markets are when something has a much lower cost than
before, or when something has a new functionality that was never
available before.

Over time, people became comfortable with PCs and GNU Emacs and used
them for more critical applications.  I think that this may also be
possible for Linux.  


> >If a few programmers bring in Linux so that they can use it instead of
> >Desview/X, and then start spreading it around, it will eventually work
> >its way into more and more critical/important spots.  The database
> >might be just a small project that isn't critical at first, but after
> >a few years it is grown to the point that you are running dozens of
> >users on it.  The two person outfit that started on a shoe string can
> >turn into a thriving business that has never had time to replace that
> >Linux system with a "real" Unix.
> 
> Which is fine as long as they don't have to run "real" applications.

Why not?  People have been running stuff on unsupported systems for
years.  If it works for what they want to do and it is cheaper, then
there is little reason why they won't use Linux to run "real"
applications.  There are people today using Linux to run "real"
applications, and I think that that is fine.




-wayne
-- 
The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of
enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is
that he wants to believe.    -Voltaire

------------------------------


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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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