Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #264
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Tue, 14 Jun 94 10:13:11 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #264, Volume #2                Tue, 14 Jun 94 10:13:11 EDT

Contents:
  Re: future of Unixware (Vinod.G.Kulkarni)
  Wanted: dosemu / xdos hdimage files (I.W.Barker)
  Does WP demo work? (was:WordProcessing again) ("A.J.Scholl")
  Re: Linux stable enough for commercial products yet? (Alan Cox)
  Re: Latest in PC WEEK (May 30 Editorial) (Alan Cox)
  Re: One downsmanship (Was:Re: Linux vs *BSD (new twist)) (Charles Ian Walker)
  Using Linux for Internet gateway (Robert King)
  Re: Conner or Colorado Tape drives - OK with Linux (Jens Krauss (Steinfath))
  Two times INGRES, what's the difference? (Jan Willems)
  8 megs --> 16 megs ??!? (Bogdan Urma)
  Re: Can Adaptec 1542CF handle floppies? (Harald Milz)
  Re: Cobol for Linux (Harald Milz)
  Re: Do Digiboard intelligent serial ports work with Linux? (Harald Milz)
  Re: who wants POV for Linux ??? (Norbert Harrer)
  Re: future of Unixware (william.c.brown)
  Re: future of Unixware (Alan Cox)
  Pascal compiler for Linux? (Hans Vermeulen)
  Re: XDM (login problems) (Gernot M. FUCHS)
  Re: Multiport Bored and Linux (Was: future of Unixware) (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: Multiport Bored and Linux (Was: future of Unixware) (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: Need a easy-to-use menu shell for Linux (Chris Bitmead)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: vinod@annapurna (Vinod.G.Kulkarni)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: 14 Jun 1994 04:37:04 GMT

Any product, to be successful, requires
  -- A very good marketing support
  -- A good amount of advertising
  -- After sales support
  -- support from other peripheral vendors  etc.

Taking into consideration any big organisation like Novell, SCO, SUN
these are all available by default. 

For linux, NONE of these are available. It is perhaps IMPOSSIBLE to 
advertise for linux since the benefits of advertising neednot necessarily
go to advertiser.  (At least not at the scale expected.)  After sales
support is not possible easily - no one company can set up its offices
all over to support linux. 

In spite of so many deficiencies, you find so much of discussion going on  
about linux! Does it convey anything?

I believe it is just matter of time before we see linux as the major
base platform for unix! (At least for we Indians, linux is going to 
save much of foreign exchange by removing need for other unix and even
novell platforms.)

Vinod
Dept.of CSE
IIT Bombay INDIA.

------------------------------

From: cs5iwb@capel.uucp (I.W.Barker)
Subject: Wanted: dosemu / xdos hdimage files
Date: 14 Jun 1994 12:03:47 GMT
Reply-To: I.W.Barker@dcs.hull.ac.uk

Can someone who is prepared to email me a hdimage file for xdos or dosemu
please reply to this post by email. I'll then followup on a response.

Just the bare minimum to boot (ie a small hdimage with a valid MBR and a copy 
of the linux-dos .exe's and MS-DOS would be great). 
Make sure it's MS-DOS V6.2 (...for licensing etc.)

I can't create my own hdimage from a boot floppy because my PC does not have
a functional floppy drive - and before you ask, Linux got there via CD.

Thanks,
Iain.

I.W.Barker@dcs.hull.ac.uk


------------------------------

From: "A.J.Scholl" <A.J.Scholl@durham.ac.uk>
Subject: Does WP demo work? (was:WordProcessing again)
Date: 14 Jun 1994 13:00:54 +0100

Michael Will writes:

  stub@pce60.rz.tu-clausthal.de (Ulf Bartelt) writes:
  
  >Reuben Regucera (reubenr@netcom.com) wrote:
  >: It can be found in : ftp.wordperfect.com:/unix/demos/sco/sco.Z
  >: It is an 8M file, uncompress works, but the tar file is not
  recognized 
  >: by Linux or Sun.
  Because it probably is no tarfile at all, but a rather big
  executable? 
  
  just a wild guess :-) 
  
Hmm. This is a compressed tar file - I downloaded and untarred it
successfully. 

But it didn't work for me, for two reasons:

1) An error in the supplied shell script "demo.wp" - in line 54
there is a "'" missing at the end of the sed command. 

2) Having fixed that, I couldn't run the binary wpbin/xwp (it got
a segmentation fault). I'm running 1.0 kernel (with ELF/COFF
support) and XFree 2.0.

Has anyone got this to work???

Tony (a.j.scholl@durham.ac.uk)

------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Linux stable enough for commercial products yet?
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 10:43:11 GMT

In article <2tg0pf$eoa@apollo.west.oic.com> dillon@apollo.west.oic.com (Matthew Dillon) writes:
>    Personally, I would like to see better shared library support before
>    committing commercial development to linux.  The fixed-address shared
>    libraries currently in use have potential portability and address conflict
>    problems.
>
Never stopped iBCS2 libraries aka Interactive. Also PIC libraries on a 386/486
are _SLOW_. 

Alan


------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Latest in PC WEEK (May 30 Editorial)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 10:50:29 GMT

In article <1994Jun13.214516.4160@kf8nh.wariat.org> bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) writes:
>But modules don't link to the GNU C library; they link to the kernel, which is
>not LGPL'ed.  And the "API" is specific to the GPL'ed program in question (the
>kernel!) (compare GNU libmp), so it's not exempt from the GPL.  Or such is my
>understanding.

Thats also as I understand it , but as I've discovered before Lawyers live
in strange and different worlds. For reference btw the Linux syscall interface
is a) a standard API on the whole rather than part of just a GPL program
and b) has a note with the license saying explicitly that using the syscalls
doesnt make your program GPL'd.

ALan



------------------------------

From: iwalker@kaiwan.com (Charles Ian Walker)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: One downsmanship (Was:Re: Linux vs *BSD (new twist))
Date: 13 Jun 1994 23:07:59 -0700

In <DHOLLAND.94Jun13174252@scws9.harvard.edu> dholland@scws9.harvard.edu (David Holland) writes:


>hasty@netcom.com's message of Mon, 13 Jun 1994 05:24:08 GMT said:

> > And no, I am not going to tell you stories about 11/04, rt-11, gt40's,
> > pdp-10s, etc...

>rt-11 sucked. That's about all you can say...

rt-11 ran real well from paper tape with 16K memory and was truely a
Real Time OS.

Long live TECO


------------------------------

From: robking@actrix.gen.nz (Robert King)
Subject: Using Linux for Internet gateway
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 11:58:57 GMT


Has anybody used Linux as the OS for an internet gateway/server?

I'm on a team eveluating UNIX variants for our Polytech's proposed 
internet site and we've decided to recommend Linux running on a 486DX/2 
over SunOS, Solaris and NetBSD.  Basically Linux gives us the most bang 
for our buck, and it's a very small buck too :-)

Anyway, does anyone know of any internet sites running Linux that I can 
mail to?

Thanks.

P.S. I don't really know much about UNIX of any form and want to learn it 
by installing Linux on my PC under Boot Manager.  What's the minimum 
amount of space that I will need to have a working version.  I'd like to 
install X, but I don't have 90mb free just yet.
Also, what CD-ROM's is Linux available on and can I install it from the CD?
-- 
=======================================+======================================
Robert King                       NEW ZEALAND            robking@actrix.gen.nz
 COBOL: The only programming language to successfully compile "War and Peace"
=======================================+======================================

------------------------------

From: krauss@charlie.igd.fhg.de (Jens Krauss (Steinfath))
Subject: Re: Conner or Colorado Tape drives - OK with Linux
Date: 14 Jun 1994 11:46:47 GMT
Reply-To: igd.fhg.de

Hy all,

I want to buy such a tape drive. But I know, that you can only write
80MBs on such tapes physically. Dos software has abilities to compress
the data, so that you can get 250MBs on them. (I know gnu tar, wich compresses the data!) How much do YOU get on your floppz tape????
(sorry, the tape you put in your drive....)

ciao Jens

------------------------------

From: janw@cs.ruu.nl (Jan Willems)
Subject: Two times INGRES, what's the difference?
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 12:11:00 GMT


Dear netters,

        As a new user on an a large Ingres database system I wondered what
        the differences are between Ingres, the commercial product, and
        the free Ingres on my linux cd-rom (other than pure size).
        Have they evolved from the same source (like unix)? Can they still
        read each others databases? Is there any further reading on 
        similarities/differences between the two?

        Please respond to clear this up.
        Thanx,
--
-- Jan --                                            _
Jan Willems, Department of Computer Science,|      -0-0-
Utrecht University, the Netherlands,        |        |   
tel: +31-30-534114, e-mail: janw@cs.ruu.nl  |       \_/

------------------------------

From: bogdan@crl.com (Bogdan Urma)
Subject: 8 megs --> 16 megs ??!?
Date: 13 Jun 1994 23:48:30 -0700

   I've installed 8 more megs RAM to my 486/dx 33, to a previous 8, and so I
now have 16 megs RAM. Well, so far I haven't seen any speed increases, 
expecially
when compiling the kernel. It takes the exact same amount of time to
compile the kernel with 8 megs as it does with 16 megs of RAM. How come??
I realize that its using less of the swap space but shouldn't real RAM be
accessed faster than swap space? How does it work, and when will I start
to see any benefits from having added the extra 8 megs of RAM?

Thanks for your input,
Bogdan Urma
bogdan@crl.com

   Is it possible that I got a BAD 8 meg RAM module?? What's an exhaustive
way of testing that all my RAM is working correctly under Linux?

Thanks again!


------------------------------

From: hm@seneca.ix.de (Harald Milz)
Subject: Re: Can Adaptec 1542CF handle floppies?
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 07:14:50 GMT
Reply-To: hm@seneca.ix.de

Brad Block (bradb@bronze.coil.com) wrote:
: > Do most SCSI cards (specifically Adaptec 1542CF) handle floppy drives?  
: > If not, what does?

Adaptec use to place a '2' as the last digit of their adapters which do 
have floppy support. Those without have a '0' inplace. 

-- 
Harald Milz                             office: hm@ix.de
iX Multiuser Multitasking Magazine      home:   hm@seneca.ix.de
Opinions are mine, not my employer's -- the answer is Forty-two


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: hm@seneca.ix.de (Harald Milz)
Subject: Re: Cobol for Linux
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 07:17:34 GMT
Reply-To: hm@seneca.ix.de

Brandon S. Allbery (bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org) wrote:
: > In article <Cr81MC.AvH@seneca.ix.de>, hm@seneca.ix.de says:
: > +---------------
: > | Mackenzie StLouis (mstlouis@world.std.com) wrote:
: > | : > Does anyone know where I can get a Cobol compiler for Linux.
: > | I understand that the ACU COBOL compiler is available for Linux.
: > +------------->8

: > Not so far as I know.  ACU COBOL for SCO runs under the iBCS2 emulator,
: > however.

They do. You might want to contact:

Acucobol Deutschland GmbH
Otto-Hahn-Str. 9
D-61381 Friedrichsdorf
phone +49 61 75/30 28
fax   +49 61 75/14 29

The Acucobol compiler for Linux has been around for quite a while (longer 
than iBCS2 support), and I received a press release about this last autumn. 

-- 
Harald Milz                             office: hm@ix.de
iX Multiuser Multitasking Magazine      home:   hm@seneca.ix.de
Opinions are mine, not my employer's -- the answer is Forty-two


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: hm@seneca.ix.de (Harald Milz)
Subject: Re: Do Digiboard intelligent serial ports work with Linux?
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 07:18:47 GMT
Reply-To: hm@seneca.ix.de

Brad Block (bradb@bronze.coil.com) wrote:

: > Do Digiboad intelligent serial ports work witth Linux?  If not, are there 
: > any problems with the "dumb" ones?

As far as I know, Digiboard offers free drivers for their boards via FTP
(ftp.digi.com or so). BTW, Comtrol also offers free drivers. 

-- 
Harald Milz                             office: hm@ix.de
iX Multiuser Multitasking Magazine      home:   hm@seneca.ix.de
Opinions are mine, not my employer's -- the answer is Forty-two


------------------------------

From: upi@sztma.tu-graz.ac.at (Norbert Harrer)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: who wants POV for Linux ???
Date: 14 Jun 1994 07:44:10 GMT

>How many readers would be interested in an officially-compiled and
>supported version of POVRAY, with X-Windows support, for LINUX ???

I want it too !!!

--
 /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=*=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
 | Real Name:  Norbert Harrer             |   Technical University Graz    |
 | E-Mail:     upi@sztma.tu-graz.ac.at    |            Austria             |
 +----------------------------------------*--------------------------------+
 |    " Only a dead window is a good window ! "                            |
 |                                     (Confucius Microsofticus)           |
 \-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware
From: corey@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (william.c.brown)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 13:05:26 GMT

In article <2tilq0$3jt@reality.UUCP>, henryc@reality.UUCP (Christian Henry) writes:
> In article <CrAHAG.JGx@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>,
> william.c.brown <corey@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> wrote:
> 
> >> To tie this into Unixware, my grandmother was almost lured into buying
> >> it the other day.  $250 she doesn't have. I'll be sure to install
> >> Slackware for her when/if she gets a new machine. Nyah nyah nyah.. one
> >> less Unixware user to count.  ;)
> >
> >     Well make sure your grandmother has a good internet provider
> >     so she can get her kernel patches every 15 minutes just like
> >     all the other Linux users...
> 
> Thank god you're _not_ speaking on behalf of AT&T.  If you were, your
> implied "elitist" attitude would only hurt the company's reputation further
> than it might already have done in the past.
> 
> >/* -----                                                     */
> >/* Corey Brown  (WB0RXQ): 20m, 15m, 2m(146.82) 70cm(443.65)     */
> >/* AT&T NSD                                                  */
> >/* Alpharetta, Ga 30202                                              */
> >/* (404)750-8071                                             */
> >/*                   -----------------                       */
> >/* att!hustler.att.com!corey                                         */
> >/* attmail!wcbrown                                           */
> >/*                                                     ----- */
> 
> P.S.:  Is your ignorance of etiquette typical of AT&T employees (read:
> SHORTEN THE DAMN .SIG OR KEEP YOUR TRAP SHUT ABOUT MATTERS YOU OBVIOUSLY
> HAVE NO COMPREHENSION OF!)?
> 
> -- 
>  |  Christian Henry   //   North York, Ontario   |  e-mail:  henryc@io.org  |
>  |     ``...And I raise my head and stare into the eyes of a stranger''     |



        Jeeez Christian cool down. It was a joke... Can't you take
        a joke? BTW speaking of etiquette - STOP SHOUTING!!!

        Also, my .sig is fine, just because yours is 2 lines long
        does not mean that mine is to long.


        --Corey

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 11:47:41 GMT

In article <2tjc5g$4ma@bhairav.ee.iitb.ernet.in> vinod@annapurna (Vinod.G.Kulkarni) writes:
Not after sales support. Not in my experience. I've had great marketing demos
(doesn't windows NT run well on 35mm slides 8)) seen the adverts but try phoning
a bug report in.
>
>For linux, NONE of these are available. It is perhaps IMPOSSIBLE to 
Lots of people sell Linux support. Yggdrasil for one do both personal and
corporate support. You pay for your support though - thats a big part of the
GNU concept.

>I believe it is just matter of time before we see linux as the major
>base platform for unix! (At least for we Indians, linux is going to 
>save much of foreign exchange by removing need for other unix and even
>novell platforms.)

I can't speak for India 8). Most of what I see is a different market. It really
is a 'personal unix system' to many people. Software for slip client sides,
pop clients for Unix and stuff are much in the 'wanted' area, and the normal
pop servers and stuff are of much less interest. A lot of it is a different
target area.

Alan

------------------------------

From: vermeule@wi.leidenuniv.nl (Hans Vermeulen)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.development
Subject: Pascal compiler for Linux?
Date: 14 Jun 1994 12:20:23 GMT
Reply-To: vermeule@wi.leidenuniv.nl

Hello,

I am looking for a Pascal compiler for Linux.
Is there one out there? I don't like to use a pascal-to-c translator and gcc.
So, anybody got a clue? After all, there is modula-2/3, eiffel, fortran, ....,
so why no pascal?

Thanks in advance,

---Hans.

#------------------------------------------------------------------------------#
Hans Vermeulen, Scientific Programmer
Dept. of Computer Science, Leiden University, The Netherlands
P.O. Box 9512, 2300 RA  Leiden, The Netherlands
Fax: +31 71 276985, Voice: +31 71 277106
e-mail: Hans.Vermeulen@wi.LeidenUniv.nl
#------------------------------------------------------------------------------#



------------------------------

From: gfuchs@afm02.iac.tuwien.ac.at (Gernot M. FUCHS)
Subject: Re: XDM (login problems)
Date: 14 Jun 1994 08:17:06 GMT

: Gernot,
: I've had the same problem.  I recently upgraded from XFree86-1.3 to
: XFree86-2.1.1, grabbed the xdm-shadow package (yes, I run the shadow
: suite on my 486/33 at home), and while everything else seems to work under
: the new XFree, xdm is the one thing that won't.  It will not recognize
: any logins at all.  (I run the shadow-3.3.1 package, by the way).
: Hope someone has a solution.

I've received several mails, all pointing towards a problem with the
shadow passwd file. I'm not running shadow passwd file, and if my XDM
wants a shadow system, there should be no login possible for all the
users under XDM. However several users can login w/o any problem under
XDM and some only with an ASCII terminal calling their wm from there. So
i think the problem is not a shadow/non-shadow conflict.

-Gernot

PS: Sorry, i know this topic should belong to the *.help group, but i
    cannot access it temporarly and the *.misc group seemed to be the
    next place of choice to post this request...

**********************************************************************
Gernot M. Fuchs                      voice :         xx43-1-58801-4932    
TU - VIENNA                          email : gfuchs@email.tuwien.ac.at
Getreidemarkt 9/7/151               bitnet : gfuchs@awituw64.bitnet
A-1060                                 fax :             xx43-1-567813

Vienna University of Technology 
Institute of Analytical Chemistry - Nanolab
**********************************************************************




------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware
From: mark@taylor.infi.net (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Multiport Bored and Linux (Was: future of Unixware)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 12:21:33 GMT

bernard@cpio1.frmug.fr.net (Bernard Fouche) writes:

>In article <rick.771073998@digibd>,
>Rick Richardson <rick@digibd.digibd.com> wrote:
>>[bits deleted]
>>I estimate the size of the PC multiport
>>serial market at $200M, or about 2 million ports/year.  70% of
>>that is Unix (all flavors), or 1.4 million ports/year.  I don't
>>know what the breakdown is after that, but lets be conservative:
>>[some conservative figures deleted]
>>      -Linux 0%               0 ports/year

>My company bought about 10 boards from digiboard to use them over ISC
>and Dell Unix.  ISC has been bought by Sun, Dell Unix has been dropped
>by Dell, we do not want to develop under SCO, etc. There is now only
>Unixware that seems serious enough. But for how long ?

Don't overpredict here.  SCO, for one, has been around a LONG time and
they are not going anywhere anytime soon.  As much as Unixware is
interesting and low cost, SCO is still more stable, supports more
hardware, and have the most software written for it (under COFF/IBCS).

>Linux seems to be very near to be stable enough to run business
>applications on it. The only reason that we do not plan to quickly
>move to Linux is the lack of support from hardware manufacturers (like
>Digiboard) and major sofware house (that sells RDBMS).

That, unfourtunately, is a rather BIG lacking.  And to most commercial
sites, it is what holds back any Linux usage (for now).

-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.infi.net           |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware
From: mark@taylor.infi.net (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Multiport Bored and Linux (Was: future of Unixware)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 12:24:57 GMT

bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) writes:

>In article <1994Jun13.134758.13245@frmug.fr.net>, bernard@cpio1.frmug.fr.net (Bernard Fouche) says:
>+---------------
>| move to Linux is the lack of support from hardware manufacturers (like
>| Digiboard) and major sofware house (that sells RDBMS).
>+------------->8

>Joe Portman has Oracle 6 running under iBCS2 emulation; I have Unify 2000
>running; various others have Informix-SE running, and Informix-Online should
>work once Linux IPC has been rewritten to fix various problems with the
>message queue interface (among others).

Awesome, as predicted.  Precisely why I was screaming so loudly for COFF
for eons.  

>  Ironically, the biggest failure to
>date is dBASE IV... which should also be fixed when the IPC code is fixed.

"Who cares?"  :)  There are countless other Xbase products to try,
like Recital, Foxbase+, Qbase, etc....   From what I have heard, actual
Unix dBASE is slow, buggy, and expensive.

>Native support seems almost redundant.  It also seems unlikely, especially
>from the "first tier" RDBMS vendors.

Yes!  It would be redundant.  But perhaps those vendors who find their
software suddenly running reliably on Linux without porting it will be
interested in supporting it; especially if a market develops from it.
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.infi.net           |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: chrisb@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Chris Bitmead)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Need a easy-to-use menu shell for Linux
Date: 14 Jun 1994 17:05:15 +1000

bradb@bronze.coil.com (Brad Block) writes:

>I need a easy-to-use menu (shell) that will serve as a login shell for 
>guests.  Does anyone have such a thing?

If you just want something really simple use the select loop in zsh.
(I think this is also available in the most recent version of bash (Maybe
1.14)).

In your start up script for zsh you can put:

select var in edit compile run exit
do
                case $var in
                                edit) emacs ;;
                                compile) make ;;
                                run) read prog ; $prog ;;
                                exit) exit ;;
                esac
done
exit



------------------------------


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