Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #259
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Mon, 13 Jun 94 11:13:12 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #259, Volume #2                Mon, 13 Jun 94 11:13:12 EDT

Contents:
  Re: ML for Linux? (Matthias Wagner)
  Re: Can Dosemu run DOOM? (Alan Cox)
  Re: Latest in PC WEEK (May 30 Editorial) (Alan Cox)
  Re: Latest in PC WEEK (May 30 Editorial) (Alan Cox)
  Re: Why Linux? (Alan Cox)
  928 S3-Chip has Bug? (lauer@mpi-sb.mpg.de)
  Re: I'm in LOVE ... with Linux (Alan Cox)
  Re: Why Linux? (Paul)
  Re: How do you connect a UPS to a Linux box to shutdown when power-fails (B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk)
  XDM (login problems) (Gernot M. FUCHS)
  Re: Linux vs *BSD (new twist) (Scott Telford)
  Re: Why Linux? (Gary Paul Gortmaker)
  Re: Why Linux? (Bill Hogan)
  Re: Which sound card + cdrom to buy ? (Ketil M. Malde)
  Re: Can Dosemu run DOOM? (Edward Haymore)
  Re: Linux stable enough for commercial products yet? (Mark van Hoeij)
  Re: PCI Motherboards (BRYAN GARNETT COPE)
  Re: Using CD-ROM recorder with Linux (Phil Hughes)
  Re: Which LINUX is best for my laptop??? (Phil Hughes)
  Re: future of Unixware (Aleksey Y. Romanov)
  Linux and UltraStor 34F SCSI Controller (BRYAN GARNETT COPE)
  Re: i saw chicago! (Leo L Turetsky)
  Re: i have an idea: comp (Leo L Turetsky)
  Re: i have an idea: comp (Leo L Turetsky)
  Re: Why Linux? (Paul)
  Re: Why Linux? (Alan Cox)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: wagner@rohan.informatik.uni-ulm.de (Matthias Wagner)
Subject: Re: ML for Linux?
Reply-To: wagner@rohan.informatik.uni-ulm.de
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 09:50:28 GMT

In article 94Jun10114739@laphroaig.nrao.edu, cflatter@laphroaig.nrao.edu (Chris Flatters) writes:
>>>>>> "Deron" == Deron McAndrew <dmmcandr@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
>
>    Deron> Does anyone know where I can get hold of either binaries or
>    Deron> adapted source for an ML compiler for Linux?  I tried
>    Deron> yesterday to get SML/NJ to compile, but I just don't know
>    Deron> enough about the flags field for the exec stuct as defined
>    Deron> in /usr/include/linux/a.out.h (if I've piqued your
>    Deron> curiosity, you can get SML/NJ from research.att.com ).
>
>There is a Linux port of SML on ftp.dcs.glasgow.ac.uk.
>
>       Chris Flatters
>       cflatter@nrao.edu
>

I am *very* interested in getting this SML - linux port. But if I try to ftp
it from ftp.dcs.glasgow.ac.uk via an anonymous/ftp login I get:

        530 User anonymous access denied.
        Login failed.

What do I have to do? Were you able to ftp it that way?

        -mw

------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Can Dosemu run DOOM?
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:31:27 GMT

In article <2tamlh$jia@solaris.cc.vt.edu> dlacroix@guilder.bevd.blacksburg.va.us (David La Croix) writes:
>Any idea when and where I can get it????     Does it use svgalib?  'cause
>I'm sure any X version wouldn't be fast enough.

Download wt sometime. Run the x and the svgalib versions. Compare the speed
and remember this is the worst possible case situation for Xshm v svgalib.

Now eat your words 8) - The MIT SHM extension is fast

Alan

------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Latest in PC WEEK (May 30 Editorial)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:32:56 GMT

In article <2tau1r$n0h@news.u.washington.edu> tzs@u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
>lilo [Dances With Geeks] <lilo@slip-5-16.ots.utexas.edu> wrote:
>What do you mean "only among lawyers"?  I doubt that there are many lawyers
>who think loadable modules are derivative works.

A loadable module is simply a piece of kernel code that got linked slightly
later rather than earlier. It depends totally on Linux and it's calling all
sorts of internal routines. 

Alan



------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Latest in PC WEEK (May 30 Editorial)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:34:14 GMT

In article <Za4tH5K.jbriscoe@delphi.com> jbriscoe@delphi.com writes:
>Is there anything to prevent Torvalds or anyone else who's released a
>program under the GPL from accepting bucks from Novell to write a commercial
>version reusing whatever parts of his code that he likes?  In other words,
>does releasing a program under the GPL prevent the author from selling
>a later version as an ordinary commercial product?  Just wondering.

His own parts he can do this with. But nobody elses bits. I've done something
similar with my own parts of the IPX code so that someone else uses it for
something and contributes back all the RIP query routing extensions and 
stuff.

Alan


------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Why Linux?
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:39:52 GMT

In article <pO0PHbC.dysonj@delphi.com> John Dyson <dysonj@delphi.com> writes:
>No rug has been pulled out from FreeBSD -- we are making many new improvements
>and rewriting large sections of the code.  We are building on an existing,

In a sense a rug has been pulled. Without CSRG the FreeBSD/NetBSD community
have to stand on their own two feet. With IPng for example while Sun have
SIPP working under SunOS I doubt they'll give it away to the FreeBSD crowd
so there will new work to be done and new tasks to be assembled.

Linux has already proved that you don't need a major university development
team behind one of these projects.

>It is interesting sometimes how people gather impressions and stick to them.

I know - even when the networking is 100% rock solid (its pretty close in most
areas now) the rest of the world will still say Linux Networking, oh yes oh dear

Alan


------------------------------

From: lauer@mpi-sb.mpg.de
Subject: 928 S3-Chip has Bug?
Date: 13 Jun 1994 11:14:21 GMT
Reply-To: lauer@mpi-sb.mpg.de

Hi,
I've heard something about a bug in the 928 S3 Chip.
Has anyone more information?

Thanks in advance
-Thomas






------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: I'm in LOVE ... with Linux
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:47:34 GMT

In article <2tchl1$t7r@styx.uwa.edu.au> cjcason@yarrow.wt.uwa.edu.au (Christopher Cason) writes:
>can anyone tell me if a file system created with, say, FREEBSD or SCO can be
>read by Linux ? say I have an external HDD which I want to carry to a SCO
>machine ??? (or vice-versa.)
>
If your Linxu kernel is built correctly you can read SYS5 1K file systems. 
SCO can also work with S51K as can all SYS5.3/SYS5.4 systems

Alan


------------------------------

From: paul@myrddin.isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul)
Subject: Re: Why Linux?
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 11:59:48 +0000

In article <1994Jun13.103952.5653@uk.ac.swan.pyr>,
Alan Cox <iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr> wrote:
>In article <pO0PHbC.dysonj@delphi.com> John Dyson <dysonj@delphi.com> writes:
>>No rug has been pulled out from FreeBSD -- we are making many new improvements
>>and rewriting large sections of the code.  We are building on an existing,
>
>In a sense a rug has been pulled. Without CSRG the FreeBSD/NetBSD community
>have to stand on their own two feet. With IPng for example while Sun have
>SIPP working under SunOS I doubt they'll give it away to the FreeBSD crowd
>so there will new work to be done and new tasks to be assembled.
>

While that last point is true the first point is totally irrelevant.
FreeBSD has NEVER been supported by CSRG and the fact that CSRG is
no longer going to be releasing code is neither here nor there.
The fact that it is based in BSD-Net2 is totally irrelevant as far
as ongoing work is concerned. FreeBSD has ALWAYS had to stand on its
own two feet and has done a very good job of it in my opinion.

FreeBSD is about as affected by the demise of CSRG as Linux is although
it is true that the remaining people at CSRG have been very co-operative
with all the BSD ventures. This is likely to continue though in any case and
we do have close links with many of the .

>Linux has already proved that you don't need a major university development
>team behind one of these projects.

See above, so has FreeBSD which never had one either.

>
>>It is interesting sometimes how people gather impressions and stick to them.
>
>I know - even when the networking is 100% rock solid (its pretty close in most
>areas now) the rest of the world will still say Linux Networking, oh yes oh dear

Unfortunately that is likely to be true. One of the advantages of ordered
releases is that buggy code doesn't get officially released until it's ready
for prime time so when it does finally work it's not tarnished by opinions
of the earlier code.
-- 
  Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member.
  Intelligent Systems Laboratory, ELSYM ,University of Wales, College Cardiff
  Internet: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk,  JANET(UK): RICHARDSDP@CARDIFF.AC.UK

------------------------------

From: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: How do you connect a UPS to a Linux box to shutdown when power-fails
Date: 13 Jun 1994 11:00:12 GMT

In article <2tg7qj$cr2@bronze.coil.com> bradb@bronze.coil.com (Brad Block) writes:
>Say I have a Linux box and I want to connect a UPS to it.  How do I do 
>this?  I mean if the power fails, I want the UPS to tell Linux to 
>shutdown and to warn the other users of what is happening.  Then I want 
>to have the UPS boot the computer back up when the power returns.

See powerd docs with the SysVinit package.
--
    \\   ( )   No Bullshit!   | Email: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk
 .  _\\__[oo       from       | Phones: +44 21 471 3789 (home)
.__/  \\ /\@  /~)  /~[   /\/[ |   +44 21 627 2171 (voice) 2175 (fax)
.  l___\\    /~~) /~~[  /   [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37
 # ll  l\\  ~~~~ ~   ~ ~    ~ |         A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91
###LL  LL\\ (Brian McCauley)  | More: finger bam@wcl-rs.bham.ac.uk

------------------------------

From: gfuchs@afm02.iac.tuwien.ac.at (Gernot M. FUCHS)
Subject: XDM (login problems)
Date: 13 Jun 1994 12:45:38 GMT

i'm sorry if this was mentioned previously already, but i've some
problems with certain users to logon my machine using XDM. they simply
get 'login incorrect' though they can login w/o problems with an ASCII
telnet session. This problem is independent of the group entries of the
users. 

Any help would be appreciated, thanx in advance ...

-Gernot

**********************************************************************
Gernot M. Fuchs                      voice :         xx43-1-58801-4932    
TU - VIENNA                          email : gfuchs@email.tuwien.ac.at
Getreidemarkt 9/7/151               bitnet : gfuchs@awituw64.bitnet
A-1060                                 fax :             xx43-1-567813

Vienna University of Technology 
Institute of Analytical Chemistry - Nanolab
**********************************************************************




------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
From: s.telford@ed.ac.uk (Scott Telford)
Subject: Re: Linux vs *BSD (new twist)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 12:55:08 GMT

In article <2ta8jr$ii9@nkosi.well.com>, gonzo@magnet.mednet.net
(Patrick J. Volkerding) writes:

> In article <2t9jo2$gek@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>,
> Peter da Silva <peter@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> wrote:
> >In article <me.771084458@tartufo>,
> >Michael Elbel <me%dude.pcs.dec.com@inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com> wrote:
> >>Does it? I'm pretty sure, it doesn't. I distinctively remember that the
> >>/etc/DIRCOLORS file holds the actual escape sequences to use.
> >
> >What if you have more than one terminal?
> 
> Then you can use $HOME/.dir_colors to override the file in /etc.

So you assume users always use the same (type of) terminal? Sheesh.
-- 
Scott Telford, Edinburgh Parallel Computing Centre,        <s.telford@ed.ac.uk>
University of Edinburgh, Mayfield Rd, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK. (+44 31 650 5978)
-- "We do want to tour again, we will tour again" - Kate Bush, Munich, 1980. --

------------------------------

From: gpg109@huxley.anu.edu.au (Gary Paul Gortmaker)
Subject: Re: Why Linux?
Date: 13 Jun 94 13:36:52 GMT

iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox) writes:

>I know - even when the networking is 100% rock solid (its pretty close in most
>areas now) the rest of the world will still say Linux Networking, oh yes oh dear

...and so the rest of the world can sit back and chew their nails while I sit
connected via a SLIP link from my home Linux box to my work Linux box, which
is then conected to this NNTP host. I'm happy.

As the Monty Python crowd would say to the critics:

        "I fart in your general direction.... now go away or I shall taunt 
         you a second time!"

<grin>

Paul.

------------------------------

From: bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan)
Subject: Re: Why Linux?
Date: 13 Jun 1994 06:45:54 -0700

John Dyson (dysonj@delphi.com) wrote:
: Daniel Leeds <dleeds@MCS.COM> writes:
:  
: >Dwight M Evers (evers@plains.NoDak.edu) wrote:
: >: Bill Karwin (Contractor-MM) (bkarwin@cup.hp.com) wrote:
: >: : Caesar Wong (caesarw@agora.rdrop.com) wrote:
: >: : : What's the main differences between Linux and (free) BSD?
: >
:  

 [...]

: No rug has been pulled out from FreeBSD -- */we/* are making many new
: improvements and rewriting large sections of the code.  */We/* are
: building on an existing, proven platform.  NIH (not invented here) is
: NOT one of /*our*/ mottos, and if the BSD code base is good (which it is),
: */we/* are not going to rewrite it just because it is not something that
: */we/* did ourselves. ... {my emphases} 

 [...]

  With Linux, nobody gets to speak in first person plural.

  There is only us.

  And that, to me, is am important difference.

  <BH
-- 
  Bill Hogan
{bhogan@crl.com}

------------------------------

From: ketil@ii.uib.no (Ketil M. Malde)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Which sound card + cdrom to buy ?
Date: 13 Jun 1994 13:57:33 GMT
Reply-To: ketil@ii.uib.no

>>>>> "D" == Dragon Fly <viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> writes:
In article <1994Jun9.173751.4908@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Dragon Fly) writes:

A few comments, and a question or two:

    D> 2. SCSI CDROM drives are two-three times more expensive than
    D> IDE ones. Some nice CDROMs like e.g Mitsumi are only IDE. What
    D> to do ?  Go along and buy SCSI CDROM for $300-$400 while there
    D> is Mitsumi for $117 ?

Sure about IDE?  I think those non-SCSI cdrom-drives use proprietary
interfaces (like on the soundblaster)  Remember that scsi is a pretty
nice feature if you want to add another harddrive, tape streamer etc
etc.  Still don't see why a scsi cdrom should cost a lot more though.

    D> 3. I actually have "super I/O card" on my system which supports
    D> up to 2 IDE HD drives. Can I plug Mitsumi CDROM into it?

I should think not - among other things, ide supposedly does not
support drives larger than ~500mb -- and CD's are larger.

    D> 4. GUS sound card can be upgraded for about $50 to include
    D> support card for CDROM (e.g. Mitsumi). Is this way OK ?  Does
    D> it mean I would be only able to play music and that's it ?
   
Make sure you know what interface it uses, and that the cd and
soundcard are compatible.  Apart from that, it should work as good as
any other cdrom.

I am currently contemplating a soundcard myself, and I have looked a
little at Orchid SoundWave, featuring 16bit cd-quality ample/playback,
wavetable synth, scsi-interface and on-board DSP, selling for ~$200
mail order.

Does this card work with linux?  It seems to have a host of emulations
- will it work emulating something else?  Can I use the DSP for fun
things?  

I need some advice on this, as it sounds like an intriguing piece of
hardware, but if the linux-support is missing, I'll probably go for
the Advanced Gravis US...


--

 + Ketil Malde                        In real life:  ketil@ii.uib.no ;
 + Nuke The Whales!  Pave The Earth!  And Honk If You Love Unicorns! ;

------------------------------

From: haymoree@et.byu.edu (Edward Haymore)
Subject: Re: Can Dosemu run DOOM?
Date: 12 Jun 1994 21:19:56 GMT

Rob Janssen (rob@pe1chl.ampr.org) wrote:
: dlacroix@guilder.bevd.blacksburg.va.us (David La Croix) writes:
: 
: >Any idea when and where I can get it????     Does it use svgalib?  'cause
: >I'm sure any X version wouldn't be fast enough.
: 
: Now, exactly *that* you shouldn't have said...   Light the flamethrower, guys!

From what I've heard, it'll be using a capability of X to create a section
of memory to use as a bitmap for the screen.  DOOM will update the screen
by writing to memory instead of the standard X calls.

Looking forward to playing DOOM while the kernel compiles (after I upgrade
from my 8 megs, of course :-) ...

--
Ed Haymore
ed@byu.edu

------------------------------

From: hoeij@sci.kun.nl (Mark van Hoeij)
Subject: Re: Linux stable enough for commercial products yet?
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 13:51:51 GMT

In <CrAp1s.M20@rahul.net> alte@rahul.net (Charles Liu) writes:


>Per Section 1.7.4, page 21, the recently published The Linux Bible: "As 
>far as stability and robustness are concerned, many users have reported 
>that Linux is at least as stable as commercial UNIX systems."

It's much more stable than AIX (is that a compliment?).

Mark van Hoeij


------------------------------

From: bgc@eos.ncsu.edu (BRYAN GARNETT COPE)
Subject: Re: PCI Motherboards
Date: 13 Jun 1994 14:08:54 GMT

In article <zxmgv07.771266652@studserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de> zxmgv07@studserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Will) writes:
>In <Cr5039.GK9@newsflash.concordia.ca> p_quinn@ECE.Concordia.CA (Paul Quinn) writes:
>>I'm about to purchase a new MB.  How does Linux work with PCI?  Are there any
>>problems?
>See a great deal of information in 
>sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/PCI-HOWTO
>
>>Should I avoid PCI?  Is it worth buying 72pin simms?
>I would recommend PCI - and if you do use PCI you have to use 72pin simms anywy.
>

This is not true. I just bought a PCI motherboard which uses 30-pin SIMMs.
It also has VLB, ISA, and PCI slots. I'm very happy with it so far.

Bryan

-- 

Bryan Cope
bgc@moose.ncsu.edu
bgc@vnet.ibm.com


------------------------------

From: fyl@eskimo.com (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Re: Using CD-ROM recorder with Linux
Date: 11 Jun 94 01:38:58 GMT

Phil Howard (phil@zeus.fasttax.com) wrote:
: Is there any information about using a CD-ROM recorder with Linux?
: I scanned a whole collection of FAQS for the keyword "record" and
: had zero matches.  It appears the subject is not discussed by any
: of these (including how-to's).

The people in the booth next to Linux Journal were selling CD-ROM
mastering software.  It ran on Suns and MS-DOS.  At the end of the three
days they came over to our booth and commented on how much more traffic we
had in our booth than any of the other booths in the area.  Then he asked
if I thought they should port their software to Linux.  

They seemed pretty interested.  Unfortunately I forget their their name.
Something like DCA or DSA.  I expect they are in the Uniforum products
directory and a few calls to them would be helpful.
--
Phil Hughes -- usually fyl@fylz.com, sometimes fyl@eskimo.com

------------------------------

From: fyl@eskimo.com (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Re: Which LINUX is best for my laptop???
Date: 11 Jun 94 01:40:42 GMT

x93oh1@wmich.edu wrote:
: Hi to all.  I would like to know that which Linux is best for my computer.

: I have  Austin 486sx 25mhz laptop with dual scan color, 4mb memory, 127 hdd.


I loaded the Slackware distribution onto a 486 Laptop I have and it worked
fine.

--
Phil Hughes -- usually fyl@fylz.com, sometimes fyl@eskimo.com

------------------------------

From: romanov@alex.nacto.lkg.dec.com (Aleksey Y. Romanov)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: 13 Jun 1994 14:21:18 GMT

In article <2tbs2u$fu2@u.cc.utah.edu> terry@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert) writes:

>Larger numbers of ports are generally attached using annex hardware, at
>about $30 per port where it it starts to be cost effective.  There
>is nearly no better soloution for a massive number of ports (like 256)
>than putting them on the other end of an ethernet; eventually you
>simply run out of IRQs.

There is another option: to have a 486 box per each 16-32 serial lines and
mount /usr and home directories over NFS from common server. It will
definitely required some tweaking with login process, but IMHO it definetely
worth the efforts.

>                                       Terry Lambert
>                                       terry@cs.weber.edu

Aleksey




------------------------------

From: bgc@eos.ncsu.edu (BRYAN GARNETT COPE)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Linux and UltraStor 34F SCSI Controller
Date: 13 Jun 1994 14:39:10 GMT

UGH! Ok, I hate to do this because I am seeing a lot of questions
along these lines lately, but unfortunately I haven't seen an
answer yet! I am trying to install LINUX on a new system which I 
have just put together. It contains the UltraStor 34F SCSI-2 
controller and a 540MB Conner SCSI-2 drive and an NEC 3xi triple
speed SCSI-2 CDROM drive. 

When I attempt to boot the LINUX install disk, the SCSI devices
are not recognized. Because of this, I am unable to fdisk of
install the kernel. 

I downloaded the LINUX install from sunsite about 1 month ago. 
The SCSI-Howto says that this particular controller should be 
supported, so I am confused as to why I am having trouble. Is
there a special install disk for UltraStor SCSI devices? Am I
missing something simple? 

Thanx in advance for any/all help! 

Bryan

-- 

Bryan Cope
bgc@moose.ncsu.edu
bgc@vnet.ibm.com


------------------------------

From: Leo L Turetsky <professor+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: i saw chicago!
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:19:01 -0400

Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.misc: 12-Jun-94 Re: i saw chicago!
by Andrew Grillet@purplet.d 
>  I dont need equations to dash off a letter to the tax man, or bank manager.

So your needs are simplistic. So what?

>  After 8 years intermittent use I still cant remember how to use emacs
>  And I cant use VI even with the documentation in front of me.

After 8 years of intermittent use a monkey can learn to use emacs and
vi. This in no way demonstrates that Linux, UNIX, HP/UX, Sun, NeXTSTeP,
Xenix, etc... are bad operating systems. Since we're on a Linux bboard
I'll keep my argument to Linux examples but I'd like you to know that
NeXTSTeP comes with emacs, gcc, and gdb on the CD and NeXTSTeP is not
free (shows that these programs must be worthy of at least something for
those of us that aren't monkeys). Emacs 19.25 is more of an operating
system than DOS not only is but can hope to be. Emacs can do almost
everything. Because you can't use it doesn't mean it's bad. There are
plenty of things I can't do in Emacs but that only impresses me more.

>  IMHO the BEST PROGRAM EVER WRITTEN was MS WORD 5.0

Its lame. When I used DOS I didn't even use it. It's written for an
idiot and makes sure that only an idiot can use it. Besides that, it's
page layout procedures are terrible and it handles graphics like it has
two left hands.

>  Nothing else comes near it for ease of use and speed, but it would be
>  even better if it put ROFF codes in the document - would anyone pay 
>  me to write this? 

I wouldn't pay you to walk my dog, but so what? You have obviously
demonstrated that you are NOT a programmer and because you feel that
Emacs is difficult to understand, so what? I have a 400 page document
that I load into Emacs quite often. When I do a search in Emacs the
results are instantaneous; when I used to load this document into Word
6.0 for Windows it would take at least ten minutes to load, format, and
convert (from simple text) and then searches were no where near
instantaneous, they were as far from instant as one can get.

Finally, Word costs what? 400.00? Who's got that kind of cash for a
program that has one use? How much are gcc, gdb, TeX, and Emacs? 0.00!
Find me a C compiler for DOS/Windows that has more features than gcc.
While you're at it find me a C compiler that works on as many operating
systems as gcc (including DOS, Linux, NeXTSTeP would be just fine
actually but I don't think you'd succeed with even just three OS's).

This is a Linux bboard. I.e. for people with non-simplistic needs where
DOS doesn't cut it. The fact that you can't use Emacs and all you want
to do is write letters to your bank implies you have simplistic need
where DOS is king. The moral of the story is, don't rip on things that
are free until you've written something better.

-Leo

+----------------------------------------------------------+
| Leo Turetsky          |  leo@professor.pc.cc.cmu.edu     |
| Sigma Nu              |  Carnegie-Mellon University      |
| 1055 Morewood Ave.    |  Sophomore, ECE\CS Double Major  |
| Pittsburgh, PA 15213  |  "There can be only one! SigNu!" |
| (412) 862-2963        |            SPIN VBHY?            |
+----------------------esp---------------------------------+


------------------------------

From: Leo L Turetsky <professor+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: i have an idea: comp
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:22:28 -0400

Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.misc: 12-Jun-94 Re: i have an idea: 
comp by Andrew Grillet@purplet.d 
>  Meanwhile after four weeks of blood sweat and tears, I still cannot 
>  print anything on a dumb ASCII printer on a parallel port (Actually

So what? after eight years of use you can't use Emacs or vi either.
What's four weeks compared to eight years?

-Leo

+----------------------------------------------------------+
| Leo Turetsky          |  leo@professor.pc.cc.cmu.edu     |
| Sigma Nu              |  Carnegie-Mellon University      |
| 1055 Morewood Ave.    |  Sophomore, ECE\CS Double Major  |
| Pittsburgh, PA 15213  |  "There can be only one! SigNu!" |
| (412) 862-2963        |            SPIN VBHY?            |
+----------------------esp---------------------------------+


------------------------------

From: Leo L Turetsky <professor+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: i have an idea: comp
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:25:22 -0400

Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.misc: 13-Jun-94 Re: i have an idea: 
comp by Lars Wirzenius@cc.Helsin 
> >  where ever it got near the points I was unsure of!
>  
> That's why it's called the ALPHA-1 version.
>  
> (The SAG is not supposed to be shown to people who need help.  Not yet.)
>  
> >  I hope this has been fixed now. 
>  
> I'm working on it, but don't hold your breath.

Why don't you ask Lars how you can help instead of hoping it's been fixed?

-Leo

+----------------------------------------------------------+
| Leo Turetsky          |  leo@professor.pc.cc.cmu.edu     |
| Sigma Nu              |  Carnegie-Mellon University      |
| 1055 Morewood Ave.    |  Sophomore, ECE\CS Double Major  |
| Pittsburgh, PA 15213  |  "There can be only one! SigNu!" |
| (412) 862-2963        |            SPIN VBHY?            |
+----------------------esp---------------------------------+


------------------------------

From: paul@myrddin.isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul)
Subject: Re: Why Linux?
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 14:36:23 +0000

In article <1994Jun13.115950.29424@cm.cf.ac.uk>,
Paul <paul@myrddin.isl.cf.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <1994Jun13.103952.5653@uk.ac.swan.pyr>,
>Alan Cox <iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr> wrote:
>>In article <pO0PHbC.dysonj@delphi.com> John Dyson <dysonj@delphi.com> writes:
>>>No rug has been pulled out from FreeBSD -- we are making many new improvements
>>>and rewriting large sections of the code.  We are building on an existing,
>>
>>In a sense a rug has been pulled. Without CSRG the FreeBSD/NetBSD community
>>have to stand on their own two feet. With IPng for example while Sun have
>>SIPP working under SunOS I doubt they'll give it away to the FreeBSD crowd
>>so there will new work to be done and new tasks to be assembled.
>>
>
>While that last point is true the first point is totally irrelevant.
>FreeBSD has NEVER been supported by CSRG and the fact that CSRG is
>no longer going to be releasing code is neither here nor there.
>The fact that it is based in BSD-Net2 is totally irrelevant as far
>as ongoing work is concerned. FreeBSD has ALWAYS had to stand on its
>own two feet and has done a very good job of it in my opinion.
>
>FreeBSD is about as affected by the demise of CSRG as Linux is although
>it is true that the remaining people at CSRG have been very co-operative
>with all the BSD ventures. This is likely to continue though in any case and
>we do have close links with many of the .
>

that last sentenced should have continued: ...developers within the BSD
community and if anyone gets SIPP for a BSD system there's a good chance
it'll be made available to FreeBSD.

-- 
  Paul Richards, FreeBSD core team member.
  Intelligent Systems Laboratory, ELSYM ,University of Wales, College Cardiff
  Internet: paul@isl.cf.ac.uk,  JANET(UK): RICHARDSDP@CARDIFF.AC.UK

------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Why Linux?
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 14:27:37 GMT

In article <1994Jun13.115950.29424@cm.cf.ac.uk> paul@myrddin.isl.cf.ac.uk (Paul) writes:
>In article <1994Jun13.103952.5653@uk.ac.swan.pyr>,
>Alan Cox <iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr> wrote:
>>In a sense a rug has been pulled. Without CSRG the FreeBSD/NetBSD community
>>have to stand on their own two feet. With IPng for example while Sun have
>>SIPP working under SunOS I doubt they'll give it away to the FreeBSD crowd
>>so there will new work to be done and new tasks to be assembled.
>While that last point is true the first point is totally irrelevant.
>FreeBSD has NEVER been supported by CSRG and the fact that CSRG is
>no longer going to be releasing code is neither here nor there.

Oh it is someone within the FreeBSD team is going to have to write all
the new IPng protocols and they wont have 10 years of existing code to
just step out and use. 

>Unfortunately that is likely to be true. One of the advantages of ordered
>releases is that buggy code doesn't get officially released until it's ready
>for prime time so when it does finally work it's not tarnished by opinions
>of the earlier code.

It also doesn;t get fixed. There have only been one set of official Linux
releases everything else is ALPHA/BETA

Alan


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