Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #238
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Thu, 9 Jun 94 16:13:24 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #238, Volume #2                 Thu, 9 Jun 94 16:13:24 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (Greg Harewood)
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (Miguel Alvarez Blanco)
  [Q] X25 or HDLC solutions (Greg Wilkins)
  Re: future of Unixware (Wayne Schlitt)
  Re: One Stop Information (Darrel Hankerson)
  PCI Motherboards (Paul Quinn)
  X-Config (Christian Hutter)
  Re: Backspace problems (Werner Stein)
  Re: experience with double? ("Eric Jeschke")
  Re: PCI Motherboards (Michael Griffith)
  Personal Netware and Linux. (Don Macphee)
  Re: Need Help Compiling "Term" (Stafford A. Rau)
  Re: PCI Motherboards (Drew Eckhardt)
  Re: High-speed serial and Linux? (Ruedi Kneubuehler)
  Re: future of Unixware (Wayne Schlitt)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: gjh@ukc.ac.uk (Greg Harewood)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 94 12:58:19 GMT
Reply-To: gjh@ukc.ac.uk (Greg Harewood)

In article <2t71iv$p4k@virgo.cc.gatech.edu>,
Byron A Jeff <byron@cc.gatech.edu> wrote:
>In article <CquCMK.7KB@news.cis.umn.edu>,
>Shawn T. Amundson <sta@whale.micro.umn.edu> wrote:
>>Byron A Jeff (byron@cc.gatech.edu) wrote:
>>: In article <CqpB9r.6wB@news.cis.umn.edu>,
>><More stuff deleted>
>>: -Could we do the some except replace 
>>: -the ALT-F with the ESC keys?  
>>
>>: Or control. That's how joe does all its command input now. 
>>We could start with control, and add the ESC later.  Perhaps in the
>>total rewrite.
>
>Sorry Shawn. Inclusive OR, not exclusive. We could have both. See JOE
>already has flexible key bindings. It's possible to attach any key sequence
>we wish to the operation, and the use can change it if they like.
>
>BTW the escape key doesn't do anything in JOE know. It may be a good choice.

AAAARGH
Please, no nonnonoonn.
The escape key is the worst possible choice because it makes using the
function keys and keypad so much more difficult; PF1 for example returns
ESC O P. Even the cursor key sequences start with ESC.

I would favour a single key stroke for each submenu; for example exit
in DOS EDIT is ALT F X, ie Meta, File Menu, Exit. By using a single
meta key and then alphabetic sequences, it can be a little mnemonic, and
better still there is only one key to be relearnt for differnt keyboards;
the Meta key. It could be ALT under X, and PF1 on VT100 keyboards, and
we could always have, say, a fllback of control X. Shortcuts could still
be defined for particular layouts, eg F10 could enter Meta F X for you.

If we can base it on a menu system, even when there is no mouse present,
it provide a clear way of finding the command you want - WordPerfect
is not like that, for example - traditionally there is very little logic
to the key sequences.

The menu's should optionally pop up when using the keyboard method, so
that you can glance at them if you wish, but if you know the key
sequences then you don't need to. Finally, for ease of use on the keyboard,
there should be no more than two levels of menu. Print, for example, sould
have it's own top level menu, eg ALT P S for print setup, ALT P O for
printout (ie now, with defaults).

Finally, Yes, C++ should be used. I would suggest a good first stage
would be to prototype this userinfo on emacs or something.


Comments?

Greg

------------------------------

From: miguel@lucy.crs4.it (Miguel Alvarez Blanco)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: 9 Jun 1994 12:47:10 GMT

In article <2t71iv$p4k@virgo.cc.gatech.edu> byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) writes:
>In article <CquCMK.7KB@news.cis.umn.edu>,
>Shawn T. Amundson <sta@whale.micro.umn.edu> wrote:
>>: Well X does it (for serial rodents). Can't we do it too?
>>But X doesn't work _WITH_ selection, which I suggest this program should.
>
>Now that's a problem of a different color. How's it possible to implement
>mouse support in an application that's running in an xterm. It has no
>direct connection to the X server. I guess an Xterm would have to be considered
>non console access. Bummer.

  But surely xterm knows about the mouse. That's how cut&paste works. I
suppose it's through the X server, but shouldn't be the same problem as
with selection? You have a program controlling the mouse (selection/xterm)
and make LWPS know about how this program does it. Surely this would require
modifying xterm?

  Just a thought from a dumb user :-)

   Miguel

    Miguel Alvarez Blanco           |  "All that is gold does not glitter,
miguel@hobbit.quimica.uniovi.es     |   not all those who wander are lost."
Temporary address: miguel@crs4.it   |           Bilbo Baggins.


------------------------------

From: gregw@tansu.com.au (Greg Wilkins)
Subject: [Q] X25 or HDLC solutions
Date: 8 Jun 1994 02:16:03 GMT
Reply-To: gregw@tansu.com.au



I have checked LSM, but I cannot find any reference to a X25 or HDLC solution for
Linux.  Are there any out there?


===============================================================================
Greg Wilkins:Consultant for Object Oriented Pty. Ltd. (OOPL)|You're not Dorothy
       Site @Telecom, Customer Software Solutions Centre    |I'm not Toto!
       Snail:P.O. Box 1826,North Sydney,NSW.2089, Australia |And this
       Email:gregw@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (gregw@oose.com.au)|definitely is 
       Fax  :(+61 2) 3953225 or OOPL Office:(+61 2) 9565089 |not Kansas!
       Phone:(+61 2) 3953396 or OOPL Office:(+61 2) 9571092 |  -Fleischman
===============================================================================



------------------------------

From: wayne@backbone.uucp (Wayne Schlitt)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 14:20:56 GMT
Reply-To: wayne@cse.unl.edu

In article <rick.771073998@digibd> rick@digibd.digibd.com (Rick Richardson) writes:
> wayne@backbone.uucp (Wayne Schlitt) writes:
> 
> >So, it seems very likely to me that there are 300,000-600,000 Linux
> >users, and it is possible for there to be close to a million of them
> >out there.
> 
> You missed one source of users for SVR4.  Using information which
> is publically available, I estimate the size of the PC multiport
> serial market at $200M, or about 2 million ports/year.  70% of
> that is Unix (all flavors), or 1.4 million ports/year.  I don't
> know what the breakdown is after that, but lets be conservative:
> 
>       -SCO 80%        1,112,000 ports/year
>       -SVR4 20%         280,000 ports/year
>       -Linux 0%               0 ports/year



Hmmm....  I am sure you have better info on this market than I do,
seeing as you are involved in it, but....

* I had no idea that the _intelegent_ multi-port market was so
  _large_.  Obviously, you must be refering to only the cards that
  require special device drivers since you gave Linux 0%.  I know that
  people are buying Digiboards to run put in Linux boxes, it is being
  discussed right now in the Linux newsgroups.  They just they use
  the 16550 versions...


* I had no idea that the intelegent multi-port market was so
  _expensive_.  I bought a 4-port 16550 based multi port card for
  around $100, or $25 per port.   Your above calculations say that
  they cost around $100 per port.


* I had no idea that people use multi-port cards for just adding
  terminals.  I thought they added modems for uucp and faxes,
  printers, plotters, etc.  Strange as it may seem, I have a higher
  percentages of terminals (25%) hooked up to my home machines rs232
  ports, than where I work.  At work, there are _lots_ of rs232 ports
  being used, but only rarely is it to add terminals or modems used by
  people. 


-wayne

-- 
The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of
enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is
that he wants to believe.    -Voltaire

------------------------------

From: hankedr@mail.auburn.edu (Darrel Hankerson)
Subject: Re: One Stop Information
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 13:37:28 GMT

In article <1994Jun9.113655.16088@brtph560.bnr.ca> luthers@brtph8dd.bnr.ca (Luther Stephens P190) writes:

   I am new to Linux. I have read the faqs, a lot of the HOWTOs, etc.
   I was wondering if there was a "one stop" source of information
   on linux. Particularly a book that contains:
   1. Supported Hardware lists.
   2. General linux information (ftp sites, flavors,...)
   3. Installation guide.
   4. Linux/U*ix differences, and simularities.
   5. System Admin guide for linux.
   6. Programmers guide for linux.

The Linux Bible collects all of the HOWTO's and covers most of your 
request. I received my copy from Yggdrasil. The inside cover says:

  This book is a joint publication of 
  Linux Systems Labs, info@lsl.com
  and
  Yggdrasil Computing, info@yggdrasil.com

I'm new to linux, with some Unix experience. For me, the book is well
worth the $40.

--
--Darrel Hankerson hankedr@mail.auburn.edu

------------------------------

From: p_quinn@ECE.Concordia.CA (Paul Quinn)
Subject: PCI Motherboards
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 15:52:21 GMT


I'm about to purchase a new MB.  How does Linux work with PCI?  Are there any
problems?

Should I avoid PCI?  Is it worth buying 72pin simms?


--
________
Paul Quinn
p_quinn@ece.concordia.ca
Computer Science: Systems Architecture
Concordia University
Montreal, QC, CANADA
========

------------------------------

From: hutter@treveris.uni-trier.de (Christian Hutter)
Subject: X-Config
Reply-To: hutter@treveris.uni-trier.de
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 14:58:12 GMT

Hi there !
I have a problem configuring my X-Windows server
I use a TRIDENT TVGA9000 video-card with 512KB.
But I can't get the right numbers for the mode DB part of 
X-Config . Does anyone use this card and can help me ?
         
                               Thanks a lot !!
                                 Christian Hutter

mail to : hutter@treveris.uni-trier.de OR
          hutter@explorer.uni-trier.de 




------------------------------

From: stein@kri.Uni-Koeln.DE (Werner Stein)
Subject: Re: Backspace problems
Date: 9 Jun 1994 12:22:41 GMT

Robert Adams (adams@ms.uky.edu) wrote:
: I'm having some problems with my backspace key in programs with
: interactive prompts like ftp.  In my C-shell, backspace works
: fine, but in ftp, backspace produces ^H sequences.  I suspect
: this is a problems with agetty, but I don't know where to start
: to solve this problem.
: 
: -Robert
: adams@dcs.uky.edu
: University of Kentucky

A way to resolve this problem is to put the line
        stty sane 
in the startup file of your shell or type
        stty  echoe
        stty -echoprt
at the command line.

This works with my Slackware 1.2

        Werner
________________________________________________________________________
Werner Stein   e-mail: stein@min.uni-koeln.de   Phone: +49 221 470 3237
Min.-Petrogr. Institut  Universitaet zu Koeln   Zuelpicher Str. 49

------------------------------

From: "Eric Jeschke" <jeschke@cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: experience with double?
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 11:13:04 -0500

Reinhard.Schiedermeier@deejai.mch.sni.de (Reinhard Schiedermeier) writes:
:Compression is not that good, around 1.45 with large text files.
:Worse with executables.

Is there a way to enable/disable it on a partition-by-partition basis?

-- 
Eric Jeschke                      |          Indiana University
jeschke@cs.indiana.edu            |     Computer Science Department

------------------------------

From: grif@euterpe.ucr.edu (Michael Griffith)
Subject: Re: PCI Motherboards
Date: 9 Jun 1994 16:13:06 GMT

In article <Cr5039.GK9@newsflash.concordia.ca>,
Paul Quinn <p_quinn@ECE.Concordia.CA> wrote:
>
>I'm about to purchase a new MB.  How does Linux work with PCI?  Are there any
>problems?

Linux works fine on the PCI bus.  You still need to be careful about
flaky motherboards and unsupported cards, but my system runs great.

>Should I avoid PCI?  Is it worth buying 72pin simms?

No.  It will probably be the PC bus of the future.  

Yes.  Not only are they becoming increasingly common, they have the
nice feature of being 32 bits wide which means you can use them one
at a time (two at a time on a Pentium).
-- 
Michael A. Griffith (grif@cs.ucr.edu)
Department of Computer Science
University of California, Riverside


------------------------------

From: macphee@ENDOR.URI.EDU (Don Macphee)
Subject: Personal Netware and Linux.
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 00:07:24 GMT


   Ok... I have three computers. One I want to run Linux on, semi-exclusively
and two for DOS.  On the DOS side, I can get Personal Netware to share files
between nodes.  Can I:

a) Use the Linux box as a file server for the two DOS boxes?

b) Use the Linux box as a print/comm server for the same?

c) Do it transparently enough that I can fool Windows, and DOOM?

d) I want't to avoid running the UMDOS file system...


  Also, how good is thse current WINE/DOSEMU stuff?  Can I run Windows/DOS
apps under Linux?

-Don.

Please reply.

BTW This is being typed on a Linux box... :)
-- 
 __   __  _  _ __  __    _    __ ___ _   _ ___ ___  personal_09@ecl1.uri.edu 
|_ \ /  \| \| #  \/  |  / \  / _# _ | |_| | __| __| macphee@endor.uri.edu
|_) | () | .` # |\/| | / ^ \| (_# __| ._. | _|| _|  
|__/ \__/|_|\_#_|  |_|/_/ \_\\__#_| |_| |_|___|___| "I push the button!!!"

------------------------------

From: srau@ucssun1.sdsu.edu (Stafford A. Rau)
Subject: Re: Need Help Compiling "Term"
Date: 9 Jun 1994 15:57:02 GMT

Renan Llanes (llanesr@solix.fiu.edu) wrote:
: Alan Rovner (alanr@lacamas.pen.tek.com) wrote:
: : Hello, I'm trying to build term for a Sun Sparc and am a little confused
: : about the results so far.  I typed in 'make DO=install sun' and here's
: : what came out:

: : =======================

: : [lacamas:term115 {116}] !102
: : make DO=install sun
: : make AR="ar rc" RANLIB=ranlib install
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  main.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  serial.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  misc.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  link.c
: : link.c: In function `ret_fail':
: : link.c:212: warning: passing arg 3 of `add_ret_buff_str' makes pointer from integer without a cast
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  pty.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  compress.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  checksum.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  meta.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  statistics.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  sevenbit.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  spipe.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  lib.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  client.c
: : gcc  -O -DLOGIN_SHELL   -target sun4 -c  terminal.c
: : terminal.c:87: `N_TTY' undeclared, outside of functions
: : terminal.c:88: warning: excess elements in aggregate initializer after `newterm.c_cc'
: : *** Error code 1
: : make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `terminal.o'
: : Current working directory /home/lacamas/alanr/ps/term115
: : *** Error code 1
: : make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `sun'
: : [lacamas:term115 {117}] 

: : =================================

: : The killer here is N_TTY being undefined.  I've looked thru lots of include
: : files and can't find it anywhere.  Can someone point me in the right
: : direction please?

: : Thanks as usual for the help,
: : Al Rovner
: : alanr@lacamas.pen.tek.com


This may be an unnecessary point, but if your Sun is running Solaris,
than you need to 'make DO=install sol21'.  I was able to get term117
to compile on a SparcStation 10 as above.


--

Stafford A. Rau                       Senior Data Control Technician
srau@ucssun1.sdsu.edu                 Admissions and Records
srau%anr@sdsu.edu                     San Diego State University

------------------------------

From: drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
Subject: Re: PCI Motherboards
Date: 9 Jun 1994 18:43:31 GMT

In article <2t7f2i$f3o@galaxy.ucr.edu>,
Michael Griffith <grif@euterpe.ucr.edu> wrote:
>In article <Cr5039.GK9@newsflash.concordia.ca>,
>Paul Quinn <p_quinn@ECE.Concordia.CA> wrote:
>>
>>I'm about to purchase a new MB.  How does Linux work with PCI?  Are there any
>>problems?
>
>Linux works fine on the PCI bus.  You still need to be careful about
>flaky motherboards and unsupported cards, but my system runs great.
>
>>Should I avoid PCI?  Is it worth buying 72pin simms?
>
>No.  It will probably be the PC bus of the future.  
>
>Yes.  Not only are they becoming increasingly common, they have the
>nice feature of being 32 bits wide which means you can use them one
>at a time (two at a time on a Pentium).

This statement isn't correct - many of the 486 boards, and all
intel chipset based boards, use a 64 bit main memory subsystem,
meaning you still have to add the SIMMs in pairs.

I spaced this when I put together my PCI development system, and
was reminded of the fact the hardway, spending a few days and $590 
plus UPS red label getting a second 16M memory and another few days 
plus UPS red label swapping those two SIMMs for a matched pair with
the size detection bits jumpered the same way.

-- 
Drew Eckhardt drew@Colorado.EDU
1970 Landcruiser FJ40 w/350 Chevy power
1982 Yamaha XV920J Virago

------------------------------

From: pingu@satu.baboon.ch (Ruedi Kneubuehler)
Subject: Re: High-speed serial and Linux?
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 17:19:20 GMT

Joseph Kruckenberg (kruckenb@sal.cs.utah.edu) wrote:

: I am trying to connect a high-speed (56kb - 115.2kb) serial port to a
: Linux machine (from a partial-T1 DSU/CSU), and I'm wondering what
: options I have. I know Linux supports 16550-based boards, but is the
: 16550 going to be able to handle this kind of speed without dropping

you should use 16550A and enable the fifos with the setserial tool.

: characters or seriously loading down the CPU? Is anyone using the
: Linux for high-speed connections like this? If so, what are you using?

linux is able todo that. i have a ISDN modem connected to one of my serial
ports, to get my news by uucp. unfortunately my feed has connected his ISDN
modem to a terminalserver, that does not support speeds higher than 38400.
but anyway, i get reasonable speed. the first connects were made with
uucp-g, which was realy bad, i switched then to the uucp-t and uucp-e.
following part is from my xferstats. i got over 6000cps by zmodem upload.
the transfer was done with uucp-t.

scsing!news M (6/9-17:47:49) (C,17701,3) [ttyS1] -> 2449 / 0.044 secs, 55659 bytes/sec
scsing!news M (6/9-17:47:51) (C,17701,4) [ttyS1] -> 93 / 0.009 secs, 10333 bytes/sec
scsing!daemon S (6/9-17:47:53) (C,17701,5) [ttyS1] <- 1774 / 1.060 secs, 1673 bytes/sec
scsing!daemon S (6/9-17:47:55) (C,17701,6) [ttyS1] <- 226 / 0.764 secs, 295 bytes/sec
scsing!news S (6/9-17:48:32) (C,17701,7) [ttyS1] <- 133251 / 36.466 secs, 3654 bytes/sec
scsing!news S (6/9-17:48:34) (C,17701,8) [ttyS1] <- 201 / 0.545 secs, 368 bytes/sec
scsing!news S (6/9-17:49:08) (C,17701,9) [ttyS1] <- 120536 / 32.575 secs, 3700 bytes/sec
scsing!news S (6/9-17:49:09) (C,17701,10) [ttyS1] <- 201 / 0.476 secs, 422 bytes/sec
scsing!news S (6/9-17:49:36) (C,17701,11) [ttyS1] <- 92740 / 25.385 secs, 3653 bytes/sec
scsing!news S (6/9-17:49:39) (C,17701,12) [ttyS1] <- 201 / 1.719 secs, 116 bytes/sec

my hardware is a 386/40 with 8mb ram and a couple of mb disk.

--
        Ruedi Kneubuehler / Meisenweg 4 / 4802 Strengelbach CH
                  pingu@satu.baboon.ch (Linux Box)
        2:301/520 Fidonet / Baboon Bbs / 0041 62 528062
                Avoid hangovers, stay drunk.

------------------------------

From: wayne@backbone.uucp (Wayne Schlitt)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 04:29:52 GMT
Reply-To: wayne@cse.unl.edu

In article <8565@heimdall.sdrc.com> crbalsn@axpo5.sdrc.com (Jim Balson) writes:

> >On the other hand, there are probably _more_ Linux users than all the
> >SVR4 users combined.  Heck, there may well be more people running
> >Linux than any other version of Unix out there, including Xenix,
> >SunOS, SCO, etc.  Yggdrasil alone sold more CD's than Novell sold
> >copies UW over the last 6 months, and you can bet that a vast majority
> >of Linux users didn't get their copy from Yggdrasil.
> 
>       I prefer to argue about facts I can back up one way or thge other.
> Don't make claims such as this without proof.
> 


Well, you are right, I have no proof that more people run Linux that
SVR4.  On the other hand, I doubt that you can prove me wrong.  I
didn't, however, just make a random claim.  I do have some basis for
it.  A lot of it is circumstantial, but here it is anyway.


Right now, most of the Linux news groups have readership numbers in
the 100,000-150,000 range.  Now there is some room for doubt in the
accuracy of these numbers, and not everyone who reads these groups
necessarily runs Linux.  OTOH, not everyone who runs Linux reads these
groups.  So, there it is fairly safe to say that at _least_
100,000-200,000 people run Linux.

The Yggdrasil people have shipped well over 15,000 CD's since last
fall, and they are claiming that the Summer release will out sell UW.
Another CD company ran a special and got around 3,000 responses within
a couple of weeks.  There is currently about 4 different companies
that you can get Linux on a CD from.

Last winter the German magazine iX ran a survey and they estimated
that around 50,000 people ran Linux in Germany alone.

When discussions like this have come up before in the Linux
newsgroups, it has been clear that there is a _large_ number of people
who run Linux that have never heard of Usenet.  There are lots of
BBS's out there that have copies of Linux, and a lot of people get it
by copying it from other people who already have Linux.  Multiplying
the number of readers of the Linux newsgroups by a factor of 2-10 is
probably in order.


So, it seems very likely to me that there are 300,000-600,000 Linux
users, and it is possible for there to be close to a million of them
out there.



What are the numbers for SVR4?  Well, Sun probably sells the most with
Solaris on the Sparc.  Lets say 200,000 per year for the last 2 years.
(We will ignore all those people who have "upgraded" from Solaris to
SunOS 4.0.x, and those that have replaced previous boxes...).  Add in
UnixWares, and all the other little SVR4 companies, and you probably
get 500,000 to a million.

This total probably is more than any other version of Unix, including
SCO Unix or SCO Xenix.  So, my claim that Linux might be the most used
version of Unix is really about the same as my claim that there are
more Linux users than SVR4 users.



Ok, these numbers are only ball park figures, and even then they are
probably too close to call.


But, I _meant_ the claim to be provocative.  I _want_ Novell and us
SVR4 people to think about this seriously.  SVR4 is having a hard
enough time catching up to its predecessor (SVR3) in sales, but here
is this newcomer that is rolling along quite nicely.

Even if Linux _doesn't_ have more users today, unless Novell does
something quick, it will have within a year or two.  Novell only has a
year or so to do something to make UW start selling like hot cakes,
or Linux is going to do the same thing to UW that GNU Emacs did to
Unipress Emacs. 

Yeah, you remember.  About 8-10 years ago there was a big debate about
whether this new, freely available version of Emacs from GNU could
_possibly_ replace Unipress Emacs.  There were all the arguments about
how Unipress had a larger install base.  How Unipress had professional
programmers to support the software.  What would happen to all those
GNU Emacs people if Richard Stallman decided to stop working on Emacs.
How, without a sales, marketing and support department, GNU Emacs
would get nowhere.  How when you consider the cost of a typical
programmer, the added cost of the editor shouldn't even be consider
and that no real business would ever use a "free" editor.

I don't know if Unipress is still selling Emacs or not.  Even if they
are, they probably sell less than Lucid does of there modified and
commercialized version of GNU emacs.  In any case, Unipress is now
just a bit player in the Emacs world.


I really hope that in 8-10 years, that there will be other companies
selling versions of Unix other than the ones that are based on Linux
sources.  I can see it now.  Warnings from people about not buying
stuff from SVR6 because it is not compatible with Linux.  1/2 :->


-wayne


-- 
The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of
enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is
that he wants to believe.    -Voltaire

------------------------------


** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **

The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
