Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #237
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Thu, 9 Jun 94 10:13:11 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #237, Volume #2                 Thu, 9 Jun 94 10:13:11 EDT

Contents:
  Re: [slackware] what happened to dvilj2p? (Michael Byrne)
  One Stop Information (Luther Stephens P190)
  Re: One downsmanship (Was:Re: Linux vs *BSD (new twist)) (Peter da Silva)
  Re: Reading BBC Micro disks under Linux (Ashley)
  Re: THANKS : SUIT for Linux (Remco Treffkorn)
  Re: future of Unixware (Peter Klein)
  /dev/ftape (Oystein Homelien)
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (Byron A Jeff)
  Re: Not on PS/2s you don't! (Re: Linux game development) (C. McNiel)
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (Byron A Jeff)
  oups (Lussier Jean-Francois)
  Re: Reading BBC Micro disks under Linux (Patrick McTiernan x8738)
  Re: Linux mailing lists (was Re: New Linux BBS under developement!) (Kevin Sanders)
  Re: future of Unixware (Paul JY Lahaie)
  Re: future of Unixware (Paul JY Lahaie)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: byrne_mike@mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Michael Byrne)
Subject: Re: [slackware] what happened to dvilj2p?
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 01:18:56 GMT

In article <2t1ovu$kbl@crl2.crl.com>, bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan) wrote:

>  I agree with this writer that dvilj2p is a fine tool for printing 
> .dvi files on PCL4.5 printers; although my original Slackware 1.1.1 
> distribution has become somewhat "hybridized", I still have dvilj2p and I 
> would not dream of parting with it!


I found a copy of dvi2ljxx on ftp.uu.net.  The source will compile to
several laser jet engines.  

------------------------------

From: luthers@brtph8dd.bnr.ca (Luther Stephens P190)
Subject: One Stop Information
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 11:36:55 GMT


I am new to Linux. I have read the faqs, a lot of the HOWTOs, etc.
I was wondering if there was a "one stop" source of information
on linux. Particularly a book that contains:

1. Supported Hardware lists.
2. General linux information (ftp sites, flavors,...)
3. Installation guide.
4. Linux/U*ix differences, and simularities.
5. System Admin guide for linux.
6. Programmers guide for linux.

If this happens to exist, I would be thrilled. I would still be thrilled
if I could get it down to 1-3 books. Thanks for your time.

Luke Stephens
luthers@bnr.ca

------------------------------

From: peter@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
Subject: Re: One downsmanship (Was:Re: Linux vs *BSD (new twist))
Date: 9 Jun 1994 06:51:01 -0500

In article <Cr2JxG.9v5@metapro.dialix.oz.au>,
Rob Masters <rdm@metapro.DIALix.oz.au> wrote:
>Who first used UNIX on an 11/23 with 16 users in 128k Ram

I don't believe this. Not concurrently. The 11/60 with 256k at the Math/Stat
department bogged down to unusability at 8. And that was version 6, though
it did have csh and vi on it.

------------------------------

From: esvfh@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Ashley)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.acorn.tech
Subject: Re: Reading BBC Micro disks under Linux
Date: 8 Jun 1994 00:45:26 +0100

In article <8295@merlin.ukc.ac.uk>,
        arg4@ukc.ac.uk (A.R.Gundy) writes:
>Do a little experiment
> 1) Format a disc to MS DOS 1.44Mb using RISC OS 3.x
> 2) Format a different disc using MS DOS on a PC or under emulation
> 3) Save a big file to both discs..
>    The Arc formatted one makes a lot of noise and is much slower (at least
>    on my machine)
>They both seem to work OK though... what's the difference? (anyone??)
>

The PC formats discs in a slightly different way - a technique is used
which skews the sectors slightly. The idea is, if you are reading sectors
sequentially, say you get to the last sector in one track and want to move
to the next. The Acorn machine formats the disc so all the first sectors in
all the tracks are in line. Moving to the first sector on the next track
involves waiting for the disc to rotate round almost a whole revolution
since moving the head from one track to the next takes time. The PC skews
the sectors so they are not in line, so it is possible to go from the last
sector in one track to the first sector in the next track without waiting.

Errr... this might explain it better:

Acorn method:
Track 1: 0---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---0---1---2--...wraps round!
Track 2: 0---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---0---1---2--...

PC method:
Track 1: 0---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---0---1---2--...
Track 2: --0---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---0---1---2...

It is easier to write formatting code for the first method, which is
probably why the Acorn machines use it. If you look at a disc (easier on
the old 5.25" format!) you will see a little hole in the disc cover. If you
turn the disc round inside, you will see a little hole in the disc. There
is one of these holes per revolution of the disc, and this is detected by
the disc drive optically, and is used by the software as a marker.

Sorry this isn't a great explanation - I'm tired! I think Acorn recommend
you format PC discs on a PC anyway...

Cheers,

Ash.
-- 
Ashley Ward -
esvfh@csv.warwick.ac.uk
ashley@dcs.warwick.ac.uk
Mumble mumble mumble .... thank you!

------------------------------

From: remco@emc.rvt.com (Remco Treffkorn)
Subject: Re: THANKS : SUIT for Linux
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 01:35:18 GMT
Reply-To: remco@emc.rvt.com

MATTHEW TIPPETT (9208033h@levels.unisa.edu.au) wrote:
...
: There has been an official port to linux by the author(s) at
: the University of Virginia.  The port is at

: sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/X11/devel/suit.tpz
...

I downloaded it, but it does NOT compile! Some header files are missing.
After I got those from an 'official' release, it compiled but seg faults.

Also, there does not seem to be any docs included.
There are precompiled libraries, I will try those next.
... Just did, seg fault. This package seems to be obsolete now.
Maybe it worked with older libraries?


-- 

Remco Treffkorn, DC2XT
remco@emc.rvt.com
(408) 685-1201

------------------------------

From: klein@pc-klein.zxa.basf-ag.de (Peter Klein)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: 9 Jun 1994 12:05:26 GMT
Reply-To: peter.klein@zxa.basf-ag.de

In article <2t516p$6vl@bird.summit.novell.com>, 
Steve Pendergrast (pend@usl.com) wrote:
[..]
: : Last winter the German magazine iX ran a survey and they estimated
: : that around 50,000 people ran Linux in Germany alone.

: That's something like one out of every 350 adult Germans running Linux.  
                                         ^^^
No, it means that about one out of every 1200 adult Germans run Linux.
(btw, I don't know if this is true)    

Peter
--
=============================================================================
                                                  Peter Klein
                                                  Dep. ZXA/PP
                                                  BASF-AG
                                                  D-67056 Ludwigshafen
                                                  Germany

                                                  peter.klein@zxa.basf-ag.de
=============================================================================

------------------------------

From: oystein@powertech.no (Oystein Homelien)
Subject: /dev/ftape
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 13:18:57 GMT

How do I create /dev/ftape with mknod?

--
                              - - - - - - - - - -
  Oystein Homelien, Administrator @ PowerTech Information Systems AS Norway.
   InterNet: oystein@powertech.no -- WWW: http://www.powertech.no/~oystein/

------------------------------

From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: 9 Jun 1994 08:15:57 -0400

In article <2so60v$1g8@sirius.cs.pdx.edu>, Mike Harvey <mike@cs.pdx.edu> wrote:
-byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) writes:
-
->-Telling a novice user that all he has
->-to do is hit ESC and arrow around to do anything he wants will surely
->-make him think before canning Linux because it is way too complex.
                 ^ twice
->-For the word processing part of it anyway.
-
->Ah but your rodent adversion is showing here Shawn! [example deleted]
-
-Agreed, most people WILL use the mouse if available.  But, if not, it
-should still be easy to use.  I like the idea of 'ESC' (or equivalent)
-to bring up a window, then arrow keys to navigate.  There are probably
-plenty of windows machines out there with 4Mb and a 386 which *could*
-run Linux, but not X windows.  They will remain DOS/windows machines
-unless LWPS runs easily and intuitively in text mode.

Thanks Mike. The machine I have at home (and that I'm typing at now)
is the machine you describe. 386-40, 4MB, 160 Meg of HD. It is however
a Linux box. And I can run LaTeX on it. however that will not satisfy
the WordProcessor user.

-
->-I might suggest, however, that this project might be suited better for
->-coding in c++.  -I've been coding in it for a couple of months and 
->-think that the modularity of it is quite outstanding.  It would make
->-it easier to do this, I think.  This would mean scrapping some of
->-the joe code, but most could be easily converted to a c++ type of
->-thing.  Ideas?
-
-Actually, I've hacked out a simple text-editor in C++, consisting of
-a "Text" class implementing basic buffer operations, and a simple C
-front end which handled file and console I/O.  It was much easier than
-working in C, and is almost readable :-)  I have converted several
-programs from C to to C++ and its not that difficult, though I'd
-prefer starting clean.

Well I think we'll get there. I still contend that having a quick to build
possibily throw-away prototype is a good idea. Gets it out quickly and
let's folks have an opportunity to check it out.

Besides I've been looking for a reason to learn C++.

- [ Several cogent points shown by Mike. Refer to his article. ]

Get it out first. Rewrite in C++ later. 'kay?

->While c++ has many useful features, the one problem here is that ALL of
->the existing code is written in C. I don't think there is going to be
->much new code at all and writing it in c++ without converting all the other
->code won't buy much. Probably a better path is to do the patchwork on
->the 1st release or two (just to get it out quickly) then looking to do
->a complete rewrite further down the line.
-
-Sounds reasonable.  If it is to be moved to C++ in the future, better
-to plan for it now, though, especially with regard to data structures
-and function profiles.  OTOH, if the basic text engine were rewritten
-in C++ first, might that make the extensions easier to implement?  I
-would tend to favor that approach.  Also, future rewrites would be a
-simpler process.

Mike, the way I envision it, for the first pass we won't be writing much
of anything. Our prototype is a paste and glue operation of existing sofware.

Let's keep discussing how to build from scratch. However we really need to
start implementing the prototype now.

Later,

BAJ
-- 
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel - And Using Linux!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

From: cmcniel@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (C. McNiel)
Crossposted-To: rec.games.programmer
Subject: Re: Not on PS/2s you don't! (Re: Linux game development)
Date: 7 Jun 1994 21:02:41 -0500

bj@hatch.socal.com (Brendan Jones) writes:

>In article <2sj971$ltm@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM> sullivan@thresher.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>>[Long arguments about Dos, Windows, OS/2, and why each is better for
>> developing videogames deleted. ]
>>
>>Considerer that Linux could actually make a pretty good game development
>>platform: [...]

>I agree Linux would be a good gaming platform, but unfortunately you have
>to worry about configuration problems.  For example, Linux doesn't even
>run on PS/2s, which already knocks a large number of potential users out
>of your market.  (PS/2s store the config on a section of the hard disk
>rather than in CMOS memory - Linux is hardwired to use CMOS).


>I haven't tried to run Linux on PS/1s but It'd be a safe bet that
>they can't run Linux either...  More people who can't run your program... :(


I'm currently running Linux on a PS/2 55sx with the MCA ESDI drive and It has 
so far performed flawlessly.  The secret is the new ESDI drivers that are still
under development (seem real stable so far).  I hope to soon release a boot/root disk with updated a1..a3 slackware disks that will allow for an installation 
onto an ESDI PS/2 machine. (several problems with the original slackware 
distirbution concerning device names, and assumptions the install scripts make
about your system ect....)


Craig McNiel
University of Iowa
User Consultant


------------------------------

From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: 9 Jun 1994 08:22:55 -0400

In article <CquCMK.7KB@news.cis.umn.edu>,
Shawn T. Amundson <sta@whale.micro.umn.edu> wrote:
>Byron A Jeff (byron@cc.gatech.edu) wrote:
>: In article <CqpB9r.6wB@news.cis.umn.edu>,
><More stuff deleted>
>: -Could we do the some except replace 
>: -the ALT-F with the ESC keys?  
>
>: Or control. That's how joe does all its command input now. 
>We could start with control, and add the ESC later.  Perhaps in the
>total rewrite.

Sorry Shawn. Inclusive OR, not exclusive. We could have both. See JOE
already has flexible key bindings. It's possible to attach any key sequence
we wish to the operation, and the use can change it if they like.

BTW the escape key doesn't do anything in JOE know. It may be a good choice.

>: [popup menus on a toolbar with popup attibutes over text]
>Sounds like a good idea.

>
><More Stuff deleted>
>: -: The basic game plan on the board is to instrument JOE with mouse support
>: -: (from the selection code), menu support (from the dialog code), and QS
>: -: support (so that it can read, manipulate, and write QS tagged text). Then
>: -: connect it for preview and printing using GhostScript (unless of course 
>: -: a PostScript printer is available).

>: -By enabling joe with mouse support, that will entail 'shutting off' 
>: -selection temporarily. 

I don't know the mechanics. I know that X and selection can share a serial
mouse, so there has to be some way to do it.

>
>: Well X does it (for serial rodents). Can't we do it too?
>But X doesn't work _WITH_ selection, which I suggest this program should.

Now that's a problem of a different color. How's it possible to implement
mouse support in an application that's running in an xterm. It has no
direct connection to the X server. I guess an Xterm would have to be considered
non console access. Bummer.


>
>So perhaps we can state right now that we could break this into two
>stages?  
>
>       1.  Patchwork to get something that works sort of how we would
>           like it to.
>
>       2.  A rewrite of all the code, perhaps in c++, to get a 
>           seperate full-fledged word processor out.
>
>We can probably put #2 into to the (not so distant?) future and 
>precede with number one.

That's the way I see it.

>
>So can you send another outline via the mailing list, and the list of 
>people that are on it and have volunteered coding time?  

Will do sometime today (thursday). But right now I gotta go.

Later,

BAJ
-- 
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel - And Using Linux!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

From: lussierj@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Lussier Jean-Francois)
Subject: oups
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 01:05:22 GMT

I there... Well let me get to the point as quickly as possible:

I installed Linux (Slackware, Infomagic CD) 2 days ago.... and made a
dumb mistake. Really really dumb mistake. I'm new to Linux (and Unix)
and to the bash shell. I wanted to have tcsh instead of bash (i know a
bit about the c-shell) so i loaded /etc/passwd in emacs and, (dumb mistake)
changed the root entry so that tcsh would load instead of bash. And that's
where i made the mistake: typo. I typed tsch instead of tcsh. AAAA!. Linux
won't let me log in a root because it can't fint "tsch". Duh.

I can't edit passwd again since i'm not root. I can't copy tcsh as tsch
since i don't have write access.I tried to reinstall Slackware, but it
won't overwrite passwd.

Short of reformatting my hd, is there a way to correct that mistake?

Please e-mail any answers... *sigh*
-- 

                Jean-Francois Lussier


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.sys.acorn.tech
From: pgm@beech.swindon.gpsemi.com (Patrick McTiernan x8738)
Subject: Re: Reading BBC Micro disks under Linux
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 12:23:26 GMT

I can confirm that sector-skewing is the major difference between disks formatted
under RISC-OS and DOS. This is one of the main reasons why a lot of BBC format
disks used to be very slow; of the numerous DFS for the BBC range, a large
proportion didn't use a sensible sector-skew. (As a sideways-RAM user, I tried
most of them).

Of course, we still have to ask why the Linux drivers can't read badly-skewed
disks, unless of course they have an absurdly short time-out or even more
exotic features which rely on a particular skewing scheme ( I believe this has
been done on some systems).

Some of the older DOS options under RISC-OS had an even worse problem than just
skewing sectors. Unfortunately, the precise FS involved escapes my memory; but I 
remember that the result was that it was ESSENTIAL to save the first file to be
saved on the disk using the emulator, rather than the FS, otherwise the disk
would become completely unreadable by either Archimedes or PCs. Thank goodness
that things have moved on since then. I trust that Acorn now do use a nice
sector skew, but I have no RISC PC to try it on. Any contributions along this line
gratefully received.. :-)

The opinions expressed here are entirely personal, and do not reflect those of my
company (except by coincidence).

------------------------------

From: kevin@sparc.SanDiegoCA.ncr.com (Kevin Sanders)
Subject: Re: Linux mailing lists (was Re: New Linux BBS under developement!)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 94 16:50:37 GMT

In article <2sefqr$lh@smurf.noris.de> urlichs@smurf.noris.de (Matthias Urlichs) writes:
>In comp.os.linux.development, article <CqK56q.2Bz@oea.hacktic.nl>,
>  dan@oea.hacktic.nl writes:
>> 
>> Why not create a mailing list, if one doesn't already exist on, niksula.hut.fi.
>> 
>Several other mailing lists have dropped off niksula because it's
>overloaded. Besides, always having to add the stupid X-Mn-Key: header
>seems a royal pain in the *censored* to me, especially when there are
>a lot of free mailing list handlers around which don't need stupidities
>like that.

I will be posting an announcement to c.o.l.a. shortly, but FYI the
BBSDEV list has (as of today) moved due to the problems at niksula
(and the original list maintainer could not continue the list).
To subscribe to the new list, send the following message in the
BODY of your mail to listproc@beacons.cts.com:

        subscribe bbsdev Your Name

To send messages to the list, address them to bbsdev@beacons.cts.com.

And BTW, I always hated the X-Mn-Key thing too.

-- 
Kevin Sanders                     | Voice:  (619) 485-3972
AT&T Global Information Solutions | FAX:    (619) 485-XXXX
17095 Via Del Campo               | Email:  kevin@sparc.SanDiegoCA.ncr.com
San Diego, CA  92127              |

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
From: Paul_Lahaie@achilles.net (Paul JY Lahaie)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 12:32:32 GMT

In article <2t516p$6vl@bird.summit.novell.com> pend@usl.com (Steve Pendergrast) writes:

>Well, I don't know about hackers or academia, but a recent IDC survey
>(that was conducted using a reasonably scientific methodology, by the
>way) found that only 3% of all corporations were running Linux in 1993,
>and there was virtually no future planned introduction 
>of Linux into others in 1994 (I think it was a percent or so).  By contrast,
>UnixWare was already in 5% of the corporate comp centers (even though
>that was only the first year of the product), and that was expected to double
>in 1994.  Solaris on SPARC was in something like 75% of the comp centers, 
>and that was expected to grow a few percent in 1994.  So, you're looking
>at something like 25 to 1 in favor of SVR4 over Linux in the corporation in
>1993, with the balance actually widening in favor of SVR4 in 1994.

     Where I am currently stationed, we have about every kind of computer 
imaginable (Macs, Power Macs, XTs, ATs, 386s, 486s, Suns, etc...).  We have 1 
SVR4 machine (Dell UNIX), no UnixWare machines and no Solaris machines.  We do 
have quite a bit of SunOS machines though.  And other computing centres I have 
run across, they usually avoid Solaris like the plague (same as UnixWare).  
Up to now I have yet to play with a Solaris machine, and have played with 
UnixWare once.  On the other hand, I've used SCO quite often and Linux even 
more often (I've seen more Minix machines than UW & Solaris machines).

--
pjlahaie@achilles.net


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
From: Paul_Lahaie@achilles.net (Paul JY Lahaie)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 12:34:31 GMT

In article <2t55dp$od3@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> rhh@tachy.uah.ualberta.ca (Roy Hann) writes:

>: [deleted]  A Xylogics Annex 3 terminal 
>: server.  Works fine, didn't require any driver support (execpt to get a daemon 
>: compiled and running).  We now have 32 ports with almost no system load, and 
>: even if we take the Linux system down, our PPP/SLIP links stay up.

>Yep, gotta love them Annexes (Annices/Annexen).  They cost $$$ but
>they are worth every penny IMO.

   Yep great machines, unfortunately, docs are pretty sparse and quite 
useless, and support is $$$ also :-(

--
pjlahaie@achilles.net


------------------------------


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