Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #234
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Wed, 8 Jun 94 22:13:12 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #234, Volume #2                 Wed, 8 Jun 94 22:13:12 EDT

Contents:
  Re: future of Unixware (rodolfo@hal02.sarah.br)
  Re: future of Unixware (Paul JY Lahaie)
  Re: future of Unixware (Jonathan A Buzzard)
  Re: future of Unixware (Larry Pyeatt)
  Re: Sangband on Linux (Charles William Swiger)
  Re: future of Unixware (Richard M. Warner)
  Re: future of Unixware (Chris Flatters)
  Re: NFS ?  AFS ? (Alan Cox)
  Yggdrasil 1.1 - mount filesystem after upgrade (David Feldman)
  Re: future of Unixware (Doug Clinton)
  Re: future of Unixware (Bob Bagwill)
  News (Oystein Homelien)
  One downsmanship (Was:Re: Linux vs *BSD (new twist)) (Rob Masters)
  Re: future of Unixware (Roy Hann)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
From: rodolfo@hal02.sarah.br
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 13:16:44 GMT

>It would be great if the SDK included Motif.  What makes anyone think it
>does?  What vendor offers an SDK that includes Motif?  Better add another
>$150 or so to the UW price!  Or say you don't need Motif and subtract
>the same from the Linux cost!  Or show that UW's SDK includes.....
        What kind of commercial software (commercial-like software) I can
find to run under Linux ? I mean, good word processors (under graphical
environment), worksheets and DataBases ...
        I'm gonna run a BBS under Linux (nowadays I run Remote Access
2.01 under DOS), and I really like Linux, but I've found few packages
to run under commercial places (like the ones I stated above).
        Are there anything for Linux ?

Rodolfo Vaz
Sarah Kubitscheck Hospital
Brasilia - DF - Brazil

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
From: Paul_Lahaie@achilles.net (Paul JY Lahaie)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 14:46:27 GMT

In article <rick.771073998@digibd> rick@digibd.digibd.com (Rick Richardson) writes:

>We do get inquiries about Linux from time to time, but not enough
>at this point to cause the Sales droids to beat up on Marketing
>who would then beat up Engineering.  Right now, I suspect the
>hottest source of interest for Linux drivers in this company
>would be from our own engineering hacker types.  I think this is
>really indicative of the real world use of Linux today.

    We were looking into buying some DigiBoard cards to provide our service 
on, but at the time, we were being promised new and improved tty drivers 
(which are now in the development kernels, and seem to work fine -- knock on 
wood), therefore we didn't really have time to commit to developping some Digi 
drivers (Even though DigiBoard is nice enough to give developper reduced 
rates).  Since the DigiBoards were not supported for all operations at the 
time, we decided to go with something else:  A Xylogics Annex 3 terminal 
server.  Works fine, didn't require any driver support (execpt to get a daemon 
compiled and running).  We now have 32 ports with almost no system load, and 
even if we take the Linux system down, our PPP/SLIP links stay up.

--
pjlahaie@achilles.net

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
From: phyjab1@phyd4c7.caledonia.hw.ac.uk (Jonathan A Buzzard)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Reply-To: phyjab1@phyd4c7.caledonia.hw.ac.uk (Jonathan A Buzzard)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 14:53:24 GMT


--

>know what the breakdown is after that, but lets be conservative:
>
>       -SCO 80%        1,112,000 ports/year
>       -SVR4 20%         280,000 ports/year
>       -Linux 0%               0 ports/year

Rather over conservative me thinks, from the Harware-HOWTO

CONTROLLERS (I/O)
=================
 Accent ASYNC-4 4 port serial card
 BOCA ATI0
 Gw2760 EX SUPER IO CARD
 GW232c mini serial card
 PC-COMM 4-port card with 16550 uarts
 ShineCom Multi-User catd LCS-8880 (AST 4-port clone)

So if nobody under Linux uses multiport IO cards how come there are drivers for
some of them then?

JAB.

===============================================================================
Jonathan A. Buzzard,              
Physics Department,           Email:-
Heriot-Watt University,            phyjab1@caledonia.hw.ac.uk   InterNet
Edinburgh. EH14 4AS                phyjab1@uk.ac.hw.clust       JANET
United Kingdom.

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
From: pyeatt@CS.ColoState.EDU (Larry Pyeatt)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 18:48:05 GMT


In article <CFLATTER.94Jun8093134@laphroaig.nrao.edu>, cflatter@laphroaig.nrao.edu (Chris Flatters) writes:
|> 
|> Pet peeve mode on:
|> 
|> There is nothing special about /usr/bin/X11 or /usr/lib/X11.  They are
|> not standard locations for X11 software.  There is no standard location
|> for X11 software. 

I have to disagree here.  The normal place to find X11 files is /usr/bin/X11
/usr/lib/X11/ and /usr/include/X11.  These are the default settings, and 
constitute a de-facto standard.  Adhering to this standard makes system
administration much easier.  It is common and acceptable practice to make
/usr/bin/X11, etc. links to some other directories where X actually
resides.

|> Any X11 software that assumes that X11 is installed
|> in these locations as opposed to /usr/openwin, /usr/X386, /opt/X11R5
|> or whatever is broken.

This is totally correct.

-- 
Larry D. Pyeatt                   All standard disclaimers apply.
pyeatt@cs.colostate.edu           Void where prohibited.

------------------------------

From: Charles William Swiger <infidel+@CMU.EDU>
Crossposted-To: rec.games.roguelike.angband
Subject: Re: Sangband on Linux
Date: Tue,  7 Jun 1994 16:42:26 -0400

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.roguelike.angband: 7-Jun-94 Re: Sangband
on Linux by Alan Cox@uk.ac.swan.pyr 
> >there seem to be serious incompatibilities between the SAngband code and
> >ncurses.  The last version I tried this with was 0.8 ... perhaps I'll see
>  
> ncurses 0.8 is prehistory.

Peter's almost certainly referring to SAngband v0.8, not ncurses v0.8.

-Chuck


Charles William Swiger - WhiteLight Systems | "All the world's a stage, and"
============================================+ "we are merely players...."
AMS & normal mail:          infidel@cmu.edu |
NeXTmail: chuck@cswiger.slip.andrew.cmu.edu | "Semper ubi sub ubi."


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
From: rick@sjsumcs.sjsu.edu (Richard M. Warner)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 13:51:23 GMT

In article <2t1kii$nst@eccdb1.pms.ford.com> crawford@pt4427.pto.ford.com (William L. Crawford) writes:
>From: crawford@pt4427.pto.ford.com (William L. Crawford)
>Subject: Re: future of Unixware
>Date: 7 Jun 1994 11:10:10 GMT

>|> :   Linux                           Unixware
>|> :   =====                           ========        
>|> 
>|> :   $ 40.00 OS                      $190.00 (OS)
>|> :   $175.00 Motif (run + dev)       $ 89.00 (SDK)
>|> :   -------                         -------
>|> :   $215.00                         $277.00
>|> 
>|> Does Unixware come with Motif?  Is that the SDK you're talking about?  
>|> 
>|> I've seen a decent Motif package for Linux for $135.  Not much of a savings 
>|> though when you can't run many major commercial packages on Linux; but then
>|> of course, most people playing with Linux can't afford these commercial 
>|> packages in the first place so why plop down a few hundred dollars on an OS 
>|> they only want to tincker with...
>|> 
>|> Charles
>|>   
>|> 
>
>It would be great if the SDK included Motif.  What makes anyone think it
>does?  What vendor offers an SDK that includes Motif?  Better add another
>$150 or so to the UW price!  Or say you don't need Motif and subtract
>the same from the Linux cost!  Or show that UW's SDK includes.....

No, the SDK does not include Motif, the base package does; so the $190
quoted above is for the OS plus X11 plus Motif plus OpenLook.  So 
the above quotes are for equivalent systems - to some degree [ without 
quibblinga lot on specifics, UnixWare has IPX/SPX plus TCP/IP and that is a 
bigplus in some environments ].


>William L. Crawford                   |  Internet: crawford@pt4427.
pto.ford.com>PTO Systems, Ford Motor Co.           |  Phone: (313)323-0856
>Not an official spokesperson of Ford  |  Fax: (313)845-4440

- Rick Warner -

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
From: cflatter@laphroaig.nrao.edu (Chris Flatters)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: 08 Jun 1994 15:31:33 GMT

>>>>> "Lonnie" == Lonnie J Borntreger <67goat@vogon.nw.att.com> writes:

    Lonnie> In article <1994Jun7.193254.3183@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
    Lonnie> daveh@texlin.minmet.mcgill.ca (Dave Hinz) writes: 
    Lonnie> |> My feeling is that Solaris would be a better choice for SVR4,
    Lonnie> |> but maybe more expensive.  The Suntools are also nice
    Lonnie> |> and very straightforward to use--no nasty linked
    Lonnie> |> directories, etc.

    Lonnie> Excuse me!?  Solaris 2.3 (and 2.4 and maybe 2.1 and 2.2)
    Lonnie> doesn't have ANYTHING for X except for there specially
    Lonnie> compiled, linked, etc. version of X.  It is completely
    Lonnie> based on OpenLook 3.0 and exists completely under
    Lonnie> /usr/openwin -- no /usr/bin/X11 or /usr/lib/X11.  Try
    Lonnie> setting up ANYTHING on this and you'll discover what
    Lonnie> "nasty" means.  I've been trying to get fvwm (one of the
    Lonnie> easiest programs to set up anywhere, IMO) for the last
    Lonnie> several weeks, with no luck.

Pet peeve mode on:

There is nothing special about /usr/bin/X11 or /usr/lib/X11.  They are
not standard locations for X11 software.  There is no standard location
for X11 software.  Any X11 software that assumes that X11 is installed
in these locations as opposed to /usr/openwin, /usr/X386, /opt/X11R5
or whatever is broken.  How do you think people deal with multiple
X installations (R5 and R6, say)?

        Chris Flatters
        cflatter@nrao.edu

------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: NFS ?  AFS ?
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 19:52:57 GMT

In article <2t21fm$a64@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> sarr@citi.umich.edu writes:
>AFS would require a license from Transarc, and a substantial porting effort.
> Rumor has it that folks at MIT (which has a source license) are doing a
>Linux port (maybe just the client side) for their internal use.  If this is
>true then it is possible (this is completely theorizing) that Transarc will
>authorize a binary distribution, as they did for the Apollo port.

Tough - the GPL has other things to say if they want to do a Linux version.
Anyway the AFS _spec_ isnt a problem - you'd only need the license to use
their code.

Alan



------------------------------

From: dgf@netcom.com (David Feldman)
Subject: Yggdrasil 1.1 - mount filesystem after upgrade
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 18:43:47 GMT

Here is a problem I encountered with the summer 94 yggdrasil release...
I have /root, /home and /swap as separate partitions. During installation
of summer 94 (over the fall 93 release which worked fine) I did not re-fdisk
but I did new mkfs on /root and /home. After restarting the system, I got
errors trying to mount /home and a *huge* number of negative numbers printed
out when fsck "cleaned up" the filesystem. This symptom repeated after several
halt/reboot cycles. /home is 65M on my second ESDI drive. I then used fdisk
to kill /home and /swap on the second drive (during a fresh install cycle)
and re-made them with different sizes (gave a few meg from /swap over to 
/home, so that this would move the beginning sector number of /home). After
this I mkfs and now the problem is gone. I wonder if something in the old
filesystem structure of /home was confusing the new OS. Anyway, problem fixed
and no further symptions - it now runs great - so this is FYI only. 
Thanx yggdrasil for a nice package! Dave - dgf@netcom.com

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
From: dec@gsl.com (Doug Clinton)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Reply-To: dec@gsl.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 15:17:30 +0000

In article <Cr2EDx.9tK@rahul.net> alte@rahul.net (Charles Liu) writes:


>I am confused.  Does UW contain Motif ? At what cost ?

UnixWare 1.1 PE and AS include a Motif 1.2 runtime licence. This means
that anyone writing Motif applications for UnixWare can distribute
them to other UW 1.1 with no need to pay for a further Motif licence.

The UnixWare 1.1 SDK includes everything need to develop applications
for Motif 1.2. The SDK lists for, I believe, $99 in the U.S. (I'm not
sure what the UK price is at the moment).

Hope this clears up any confusion.

Regards,
Doug Clinton
Developer of UnixWare applications

--
Douglas Clinton,  Greycourt Software Ltd, London, England
Voice: +44 81 743 4578               Fax: +44 81 746 0982
dec@gsl.com                   (or dec@gcourt.demon.co.uk)
The only thing in life which is black and white is my cat

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware
From: bagwill@sst.ncsl.nist.gov (Bob Bagwill)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 19:13:07 GMT

Steve Pendergrast (pend@usl.com) wrote:
: Well, I don't know about hackers or academia, but a recent IDC survey
: (that was conducted using a reasonably scientific methodology, by the
: way) found that only 3% of all corporations were running Linux in
: 1993, and there was virtually no future planned introduction of Linux
: into others in 1994 (I think it was a percent or so).

I suspect that asking corporations whether they are running Linux, or
plan to introduce it in 1994, is like asking the corporate IS managers
whether they planned to buy desktop microcomputers to replace their
mainframes in 1982.  In many organizations, buying a PC was a
subversive act (not unlike buying UNIX a few years ago :-).

My impression is that people buy UNIXware to support an application,
while people get Linux to play with UNIX.  I wouldn't be surprise
if an organization learned about UNIX from Linux, then bought
UNIXware for the support.

--
Bob Bagwill
rbagwill@nist.gov

------------------------------

From: oystein@powertech.no (Oystein Homelien)
Subject: News
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 20:16:23 GMT

I have the following files in my /usr/local/lib/news directory.  This is
C-news.  The amount of disk space used is horrendous, even though I am
running expire on all groups on news older than 7 days.  This is not
happening on another machine (SCO) i have here.  Why are the files so big? 
What is the purpose of the different files?  What could be the reason why
the space occupied my spool/news and lib/news is so large?

total 21225
-rw-------   1 root     root         1127 Dec  7  1992 README.linux
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root         9506 Jun  8 20:30 active
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root         6879 May 10 17:29 active.old
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root        11012 Jun  7 16:03 active.times
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root         7891 May 10 17:29 active.times.o
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root      1135969 Jun  8 21:10 batchlog
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root          415 Dec  1  1992 batchparms
drwxrwxrwx   9 root     root         1024 May  8 20:42 bin/
-rwxr-xr-x   1 root     root         1082 Dec  6  1992 config*
-rw-------   1 root     root         1708 Dec  7  1992 crontab.sample
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root            0 Dec  1  1992 errlog
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root          237 May 16 17:53 explist
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root      4202967 Jun  8 20:57 history
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root          104 Jun  8 20:57 history.dir
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root      4243297 Jun  8 20:30 history.o
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root       449308 Jun  8 20:57 history.pag
-rwxrwxr-x   2 root     root        11724 Dec  1  1992 inews*
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root           27 Dec  1  1992 localgroups
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root     11521052 Jun  8 20:30 log
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root           13 May 10 17:34 mailname
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root           13 Dec  1  1992 mailpaths
drwx--x--x   2 root     root         1024 May 10 18:14 nntp/
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root           30 May 10 17:34 organization
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root            8 Dec  1  1992 postdefltgroup
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root           31 Dec  1  1992 readnews.ctl
-rwxr-xr-x   1 root     root          565 Dec  1  1992 readnews.help*
-rwsrwxr-x   1 root     root        15715 Dec  1  1992 setnewsids*
-rwxr-xr-x   1 root     root         1635 May 28 20:29 sys*
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root            0 May 10 17:39 watchtime
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     root           10 May 10 17:34 whoami

--
                              - - - - - - - - - -
  Oystein Homelien, Administrator @ PowerTech Information Systems AS Norway.
   InterNet: oystein@powertech.no -- WWW: http://www.powertech.no/~oystein/

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc
From: rdm@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Rob Masters)
Subject: One downsmanship (Was:Re: Linux vs *BSD (new twist))
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 08:08:04 GMT

In <hart.770900967@apanix.apana.org.au> hart@apanix.apana.org.au (Leigh Hart) writes:
>peter@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>-- Peter, who first used UNIX on an 11/70 that supported 65 users in 2MB RAM,
>>   and still supports Xenix systems that'll run 10 users in 1MB.

>-- Leigh, who first used UNIX on an 11/34 that supported 12 users in 128k RAM,
>   and still runs FreeBSD on a 386sx-16/6mb :-)
>--

Who first used UNIX on an 11/23 with 16 users in 128k Ram, runs FreeBSD on a
386sx-25/4Mb and /still/ supports a Xenix 286 system that handles 16 users 
in 1MB!

(Who knows where this will all end! ;-)

-- 
Rob Masters, Metapro Systems P/L.> rdm@metapro.DIALix.oz.au <std/disclaimer.h>
GAT d++(---)? -p+ c++ l++ u++ e+(*) m+(-)@ s/- n+ h++(---) f+ !g w+++ t+ r++ 
y++(*)  |"Then someone said `Its fabulous you're still around today
        | You've both made such a little go a very long way'" - Pet Shop Boys

------------------------------

From: rhh@tachy.uah.ualberta.ca (Roy Hann)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: 8 Jun 1994 19:16:09 GMT

Paul_Lahaie@achilles.net (Paul JY Lahaie) writes:
: [deleted]  A Xylogics Annex 3 terminal 
: server.  Works fine, didn't require any driver support (execpt to get a daemon 
: compiled and running).  We now have 32 ports with almost no system load, and 
: even if we take the Linux system down, our PPP/SLIP links stay up.

Yep, gotta love them Annexes (Annices/Annexen).  They cost $$$ but
they are worth every penny IMO.

========================================================================

Roy Hann
Senior Analyst, Information Systems        rhh@tachy.uah.ualberta.ca
University of Alberta Hospitals            (MIME-capable mail agent)
WMC 2C2.21, 8440-112th Street,     
Edmonton, Alberta                          Tel: (403)492-4367
T6G 0N4                                    FAX: (403)492-3090
Canada

PLEASE: No shipments by courier from outside Canada; use regular mail.
========================================================================

------------------------------


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