Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #233
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Wed, 8 Jun 94 19:13:13 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #233, Volume #2                 Wed, 8 Jun 94 19:13:13 EDT

Contents:
  Re: future of Unixware (Alan Cox)
  Re: Looking for Linux BBS Software (Steven Eric Rubin)
  Re: X-Windows sample programs (Remco Treffkorn)
  Re: [emergency] How to use virtual console in X (Alex Freed)
  Re: X-Windows sample programs (R.G.W. Kenyon)
  Re: Sangband on Linux (Peter Berger)
  Re: Ovservations and question from a dithered Linux novitiate (Dr. Albert Hybl)
  Re: future of Unixware (Steve Pendergrast)
  Need Lincoln/Omaha consultant (Alex Strasheim)
  Linux Security Installation. (Glynn Stanton....)
  SW Technology (Chad Kissinger)
  Re: Linux for the world? (Robert Ashcroft)
  Re: International Linux Association (ILA) - New (Robert Ashcroft)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 17:08:59 GMT

In article <8565@heimdall.sdrc.com> crbalsn@axpo5.sdrc.com (Jim Balson) writes:
>>Oh, sure, Linux doesn't do everything that UW does.  Lots of stuff is
>>still basically beta software or incomplete.  The support given by
>>Yggdrasil or Trans-Ameritech is not up to the quality of Novells.
>>Linux doesn't run very many commercial packages, and the ones that it
>>does run are mostly DOS programs under its primitive DOS Emulator.
>>

Like Oracle 6, or wordperfect for X windows - both work under Linux + 
the iBCS2 module.

>       Don't waste your breath trying to sell me on Linux, I have already used
>Esix, which offers everything Linux is striving for, but with an SVR4 kernel.
>After seeing Unixware, I can never go back to using Esix or anything similar.
>Besides, we were discussing Unixware, not Linux.

Excuse me I've used Esix and I take that as an insult. 
>       But, Wayne, Linux is not complete at $40.00. In case you haven't
>noticed, Motif is missing. Linux System Labs will sell you Motif for, ah, 
Sorry Motif ?? - oh yes how to waste gigabytes of memory I nearly forgot some
people use it. I've yet to find a motif application that uses shared libraries
and isnt static linked so Im not upset. Anyway the only useful motif application
is Mosaic !

>not using Unixware?". :-) Your last hope in arguing that Linux is more cost
>effective than Unixware is somehow obtaining a royalty free Motif from the
>OSF or writing your own Motif. Neither of these is going to be easy to do. :-)

There is a project underway to write a free Motif clone. There are loads of
alternative Motif libraries, and because motif itself is such a pain many
people use other kits like Tcl/Tk, or Object builder. I can get both of those
for Linux.

There are also projects underway to write a free windows emulator, to write
a free Novell server for Linux and a free Novell client for Linux. 

Alan




------------------------------

From: ser@anarky.tch.org (Steven Eric Rubin)
Subject: Re: Looking for Linux BBS Software
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 21:58:08 GMT

In article <770913893.AA03755@mcws.fidonet.org>,
Christoph Lameter <Christoph.Lameter@f961.n102.z1.fidonet.org> wrote:
>Volker Schuermann wrote in a message to All:
>
>RIP graphics one of the newest features of BBSes in the US. Mustang with
>their Wildcat BBS initiated it and they have also published free terminal
>software (RIPTERM) to be used when calling a BBS that supports RIPTERM.
>

Slight correction:  Mustang did not initiate RIP.  Its made by a seperate
company (they also wrote RIPterm).  Wildcat does however support RIP,
and Mustang software's Qmodem also has RIP emulation.
-- 
Steve Rubin                                               ser@anarky.tch.org
KARA-KLIV-KRTY/KSFO/KBAY-KKSJ                             ser@netcom.com        

------------------------------

From: remco@emc.rvt.com (Remco Treffkorn)
Subject: Re: X-Windows sample programs
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 17:34:38 GMT
Reply-To: remco@emc.rvt.com

R.G.W. Kenyon (R.G.W.Kenyon@newcastle.ac.uk) wrote:

: > Hi world,
: >   Do anyone know which ftp site I can get some X-windows sample programs
: > with source code provided for beginner? Those programs can demostrate
: > features appeared in X-windows such as several buttons, pop-up, scroll
: > bars in one windows. Don't be too complex for me to explore the mystrey
: > of X.
: > 
: >   Further, if I can get some, what procedures I should do to compile
: > those programs from the very beginning?
: > Thank you!

: Have you considered using tcl etc, i was advised that for small applications
: and beginners in X this was much more manageable?

: rich

Right! But I think the real solution is a visit to the local library/
bookstore. There are good books about X programming available.

They have answers about the procedures as well as sample source.


-- 

Remco Treffkorn, DC2XT
remco@emc.rvt.com
(408) 685-1201

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.admin
From: freed@europa.mv.us.adobe.com (Alex Freed)
Subject: Re: [emergency] How to use virtual console in X
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 17:51:14 GMT

In article <2t3p4e$3s1@ccu2.auckland.ac.nz> luke@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz (Luke Wilson) writes:

   From: luke@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz (Luke Wilson)
   Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.admin
   Date: 8 Jun 1994 06:40:14 GMT
   Organization: University of Auckland

   ziniuwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Ziniu "Michael" Wei) writes:

   >For non-X cases, I can switch virtual console using Alt-F<num>.  If I
   >run X, I can use Alt-Ctl-F<num> to swich AWAY from X, but when switch
   >BACK to the virtual console that starts X, I can only get the ascii
   >display.  How to get the X back?

   >Please send me mail.  I desperately need you help.  

   >Thank you.

   >--
   >Ziniu Wei               CEDAR, SUNY at Buffalo       ziniuwei@cs.buffalo.edu
   >Rule # 1:  Network *is* computer

   What version of the kernel are you using? I couldn't switch back to X
   either when I was using 99pl14 but now that I'm using 1.1.14 switching
   back is no problem at all (I still have an old kernel selectable from
   lilo and that still won't let me switch back to X).

   [This is with a standard Debian 0.91 beta distribution on a 4meg DLC40
   Cirrus 5426]

I'm affraid that's a wrong answer. If you switch back to the virtual console
that started X, you are supposed to get the ascii display. To get back into
the X display, do Alt-F<num> with the NEXT number after your HIGHEST virtual 
console.
-- 
 _______________________________________________________
| -Alex Freed (The opinions expressed are my own.       |                   
|               However everyone is entitled to them.)  |                   
| freed@adobe.com                                       |
 -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: R.G.W.Kenyon@newcastle.ac.uk (R.G.W. Kenyon)
Subject: Re: X-Windows sample programs
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 13:45:38 GMT


> Hi world,
>   Do anyone know which ftp site I can get some X-windows sample programs
> with source code provided for beginner? Those programs can demostrate
> features appeared in X-windows such as several buttons, pop-up, scroll
> bars in one windows. Don't be too complex for me to explore the mystrey
> of X.
> 
>   Further, if I can get some, what procedures I should do to compile
> those programs from the very beginning?
> Thank you!

Have you considered using tcl etc, i was advised that for small applications
and beginners in X this was much more manageable?

rich

------------------------------

From: Peter Berger <peterb@lm.net>
Crossposted-To: rec.games.roguelike.angband
Subject: Re: Sangband on Linux
Date: 8 Jun 1994 13:54:00 -0400

In article <1994Jun7.105708.6914@uk.ac.swan.pyr>,
Alan Cox <iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr> wrote:
>In article <2svo4n$og2@foxholly.lm.com> Peter Berger <peterb@lm.net> writes:
>>In article <2st1vd$j0o@ousrvr.oulu.fi>,
>>SAngband and Linux are not happy together.  The Linux BSD curses package is
>>broken beyond all recognition (which, by the way, is a good reason in and
>>of itself to switch to NetBSD :-).  I have tried to use ncurses instead, but

>No sounds more like a good reason to port the NetBSD curses set to Linux
>instead of the current heap. Theres a good job for someone who wants a
>constructive but not hideously technical project to contribute to Linux.

Agreed!  Are you volunteering ;-)?

>>there seem to be serious incompatibilities between the SAngband code and
>>ncurses.  The last version I tried this with was 0.8 ... perhaps I'll see
>
>ncurses 0.8 is prehistory.

Aaaargh!  I mean version 0.8 of SAngband!  Serves me right for not being
precise.

-- 
........................................................................
Peter G. Berger, Esq.  
Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh
Internet: peterb@telerama.lm.com  Phone: 412/481-3505  Fax: 412/481-8568

------------------------------

From: hybl@umbc.edu (Dr. Albert Hybl)
Subject: Re: Ovservations and question from a dithered Linux novitiate
Date: 8 Jun 1994 11:05:17 -0400

With thanks to Stephen Parkinson and Kurt M. Hockenbury for their
advice, I can now mount the ISO9660 and MSDOS file system.  All that
was required was to login as root, create two subdirectories and then
mount the file systems thus:
   mkdir /cdrom0 /msdos
   mount -t iso9660 /dev/cdrom /cdrom0
   mount -t msdos /dev/hda1 /msdos
By putting the line '/dev/hda1  /msdos  msdos  defaults' into
/etc/fstab, the msdos file system became automatically available
upon (re)booting.  I have the cdrom mounting command in a script
file that I execute whenever I want access to a cdrom.

  I described some difficulty I encountered installing WordPerfect 
on the msdos partition.  The WP subdirectory was pointing to the dos
root directory.  When I 'cd WP', 'DIR /w' said I am still in the root
directory.  Using Linux after mounting the msdos file systems, I
used "find" to search the /msdos directory tree.  Wow, it started
creating a tower of Babel by iteratively doing 'cd WP'.  It was
generating a never ending path to /msdos/WP/WP/WP/WP ... /WP ... /WP.
I'm still not sure how the problem occurred but my son used Norton
utilities to effect a velvet separation of the dos root directory
from the WordPerfect subdirectory.  He also used SpinRite to
rigorously test the DOS formated HD.  It showed that the surface
was perfect and that the "burst transfer rate" failed every time
it was tested.  I will exchange the HD.  I have been told that
SpinRite can only test a DOS formated HD.  Is there a comparable
testing tool that can be used to test Linux formated HDs?

  Now that I can browse the CDROM, I can look for DOCs, FAQs,
etc. that will, hopefully, help me setup an internal USRobotics
modem.  Perusal of the Serial-HOWTO file looked promising, however,
closer scrutiny shows conflicting advice.  References are made
to 'agetty', 'getty', 'getty_ps', 'mgetty' (in the inittab man
pages), 'uugetty' and 'uu_getty'; using or not using
'gettydefs' and putting information into /etc/default/gettyXXX
files.
   Perhaps most incomprehensible, to this new 486 user, are
the interactions of the IRQ interrupt signals.  Is there some
software that can produce a list of which hardware is using what
IRQ values?  Is there a Linux (or DOS) file with this information
accumulated in it?   Hopefully, trial-and-error is not the only way
to discover incompatible usage of the IRQ signals.  Some software
seems to have the IRQ value compiled in and to change it would
require recompiling.  It would be helpful if each software package
(drivers) log the IRQ values they use somewhere.  Do they already?
Should they?
  For example, in Serial-HOWTO, I read that in busmouse.h one
finds '#define MOUSE_IRQ 5".  I have a Microsoft Mouse
connected to COM1 (IRQ=4).  The QUE book "Upgrading and
Reparing PCs" says that IRQ 5 is for Parallel port2 (LPT2) and
since I don't have one, I set the SoundBlaster card IRQ to 5.
I have designated the modem as COM2 (IRQ=3).  Does that conflict
with something else?

Regards and Thanks,
Albert (Hybl@umbc.edu)


------------------------------

From: pend@usl.com (Steve Pendergrast)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.unixware,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: future of Unixware
Date: 8 Jun 1994 18:04:09 GMT

Sorry about the last accidental repost of Wayne's post.  Here is
my intended post.

Wayne Schlitt (wayne@backbone.uucp) wrote:
: The Yggdrasil people have shipped well over 15,000 CD's since last
: fall, and they are claiming that the Summer release will out sell UW.

Oh, that's a very unbiased way to assess things, ask the people who
sell a product whether it will be successful!

In 1990 most analysts claimed OSF/1 would overtake and bury SRV4 by 1991.

: Another CD company ran a special and got around 3,000 responses within
: a couple of weeks. ...

Responses or sales?  Marketing theory says that for every 100 responses
you get to an advertisement you might make 5 sales if you're lucky.

:  ... There is currently about 4 different companies
: that you can get Linux on a CD from.

And I'd bet all 4 versions are different.  What does the number of
companies have to do with it?  There's only one company making MS/Windows
CD's so I guess there must be more Linux than MS/Windows...nice logic.

: Last winter the German magazine iX ran a survey and they estimated
: that around 50,000 people ran Linux in Germany alone.

That's something like one out of every 350 adult Germans running Linux.  
Sounds fishy to me, what was their method of extrapolating those 
figures?  I doubt magazines use much in the way of scientific 
polling methods.  What kind of magazine is iX anyway?  Is it highly
speculative?  Is it run by free software proponents, or is it unbiased?
I can find some magazine somewhere on earth to say just about anything
I want...  (Bet I can find one somewhere that gives the number of
space aliens using Linux).

: <rampant mathematical speculation snipped>

: So, it seems very likely to me that there are 300,000-600,000 Linux
: users, and it is possible for there to be close to a million of them
: out there.

Seems unlikely to me, but keep reading and you'll see you're still
way off for other reasons...

: What are the numbers for SVR4?  Well, Sun probably sells the most with
: Solaris on the Sparc.  Lets say 200,000 per year for the last 2 years.
: (We will ignore all those people who have "upgraded" from Solaris to
: SunOS 4.0.x, and those that have replaced previous boxes...).  Add in
: UnixWares, and all the other little SVR4 companies, and you probably
: get 500,000 to a million.

I find it fascinating that you take into account "upgrades" in the case
of SVR4, while above you assume that every CD that gets sold by those
4 companies is a new sale of Linux.  Seems to me that an operating system
that gets rev'ed once a month would have a very high percentage of
"upgrades" too, no?  In fact, it could be that most of the Linux CD's
are upgrades, couldn't it?

The actual number of active SVR4 installations (yes, it takes into
account retired machines and upgrades) is at the high end of your
estimate (according to IDC research), a little over 1 million.
However, the average number of users per system is something like 5
in the case of SVR4, making the number of users on the order of 5
million.  I'd bet 95% of the Linux installations are single user, but
I admit I have no figures to back that up.

: This total probably is more than any other version of Unix, including
: SCO Unix or SCO Xenix.  So, my claim that Linux might be the most used

Actually, SCO Unix is a mighty big fraction of the total unix market right
now.  But SCO isn't SVR4 anyway so it's irrelavant to the current discussion.

: version of Unix is really about the same as my claim that there are
: more Linux users than SVR4 users.

Well, I don't know about hackers or academia, but a recent IDC survey
(that was conducted using a reasonably scientific methodology, by the
way) found that only 3% of all corporations were running Linux in 1993,
and there was virtually no future planned introduction 
of Linux into others in 1994 (I think it was a percent or so).  By contrast,
UnixWare was already in 5% of the corporate comp centers (even though
that was only the first year of the product), and that was expected to double
in 1994.  Solaris on SPARC was in something like 75% of the comp centers, 
and that was expected to grow a few percent in 1994.  So, you're looking
at something like 25 to 1 in favor of SVR4 over Linux in the corporation in
1993, with the balance actually widening in favor of SVR4 in 1994.

: Ok, these numbers are only ball park figures, and even then they are
: probably too close to call.

NOT!  All you can claim is that there might be a few hundred thousand
people who might be playing with Linux, but no hard figures 
are available.  Figures are available
for corporate users (the ones who pay money for products), and in that
arena it's a slam dunk for SVR4 and apparently will continue to be so.

: <snip>
: -wayne

//===================================================================\\
|| J. Stephen Pendergrast, Jr.      Software Engineer Consultant     ||
|| pend@summit.novell.com           Transaction Processing Systems   ||
|| AppWare Systems Group            Novell, Inc.                     ||
||                                                                   ||
|| OPINIONS ARE MINE ALONE.                                          ||
\\===================================================================//

------------------------------

From: astrashe@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Alex Strasheim)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Need Lincoln/Omaha consultant
Date: 8 Jun 1994 12:03:10 -0600


I need to get some things up and running with linux over the next couple
of weeks, and I'm having trouble making it all work.  I need someone to
help me out, for pay.  These are configuration problems, not programming 
ones.

I live in Lincoln, Nebraska, and I need someone who is either local or in
Omaha.

If you're interested, email me.

Thanks.
 

-- 
Alex Strasheim           PGP 2.5 key via finger        astrashe@nyx.cs.du.edu
                 http://nyx10.cs.du.edu:8001/~astrashe

------------------------------

From: stantgcl@aston.ac.uk (Glynn Stanton....)
Subject: Linux Security Installation.
Reply-To: stantgcl@aston.ac.uk
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 15:08:17 GMT


Im currently using SLS...and unsurprisingly want to upgrade!
What Im looking for is the most secure Linux installation.
I had email a while ago from someone telling me that a new TAMU release
has Tiger tools for security auditing etc. Is this out yet? and if so how good is
it?
And where can one get it?

Cheers.
Glynn.




------------------------------

From: kissingc@endives.eng.sematech.org (Chad Kissinger)
Subject: SW Technology
Date: 8 Jun 1994 17:10:51 GMT

I posted a question requesting any experiences dealing with Fintronic a few days ago.  The results were good.  Five people responded that they had bought preconfigured boxes from Fintronic and not one of them had a negative experience to relate.  From the conversations that I've had with Fintronic, I feel that they've dealt with me in a very professional manner.  So far I'm pleased.

        However, I want to cover all the bases before I spend my hard earned money.  So, I would like to hear from anybody who has dealt with SW Technology.

        Please include any positive or negative experiences.


                                Thank you in Advance

                                Chad Kissinger

------------------------------

From: rna@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ashcroft)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Linux for the world?
Date: 8 Jun 1994 20:56:10 GMT

In article <2t3r1j$nto@crl.crl.com>, Bill Hogan <bhogan@crl.com> wrote:
>Robert Ashcroft (rna@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
> [...]
>
>: I think Linux has great potential in developing countries.  It is free,
>: which makes it affordable ;-) it includes the source, which means that
>: there is technology transfer (and silences anyone complaining about the
>: evil imperialist west screwing over the third world) it runs on fairly
>: generic and cheap hardware so you are not tied to one of those evil
>: imperialistic, etc, companies, and so forth.
>
> [...]
>
>   I probably agree with most of this, but what does the idea that Linux
>"has great potential in developing countries" have to do with "and
>silences anyone complaining about the evil imperialist west screwing over
>the third world"? 
>
>   Is it your impression that Linux was created by evil imperialists from 
>the west?

(If someone were to be sarcastic on the net, would anyone notice?)

Of course not.  There is a perception in the developing world that the
industrialized world hogs all the technology in order to screw the third
world.  This, of course, is bullshit (companies in the first world hold
onto technology so they can profit from first-world consumers.  Profits
from the third world are at best a second-order effect).  Nevertheless,
technology transfer is a concern of the third world, and a very good
reason why they should embrace Linux and all GPL'd software, because the
technology (the source) is included with the product (the binaries).

You won't see Microsoft, or Sun or anyone else donating their source to
the thirdworld.

RNA

------------------------------

From: rna@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ashcroft)
Subject: Re: International Linux Association (ILA) - New
Date: 8 Jun 1994 21:08:53 GMT

Good idea.  Please post the details of where/when you will meet.

You should forward this information to Linux Journal.

RNA



In article <Cr2H56.B4B@rahul.net>, Charles Liu <alte@rahul.net> wrote:
>Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce
>Subject: International Linux Association (ILA) - New
>Summary: 
>Followup-To: 
>Distribution: world
>Organization: a2i network
>Keywords: 
>
>INTERNATIONAL LINUX ASSOCIATION (ILA)          June 8th, 1994
>
>
>I have registered and formed, on June 6th, 1994, the International Linux 
>Association (tm) abbreviated "ILA" (tm) in Santa Clara County, California.
>
>The mission is to contribute to bring Linux to the 
>main stream of computing, and provide values/benefits to members.
>
>The membership probably will include a set of a current major Linux CD-ROM 
>disc and one year subscription to Linux Journal.
>
>The local chapter in Silicon Valley will start to meet every third Monday 
>from June 20th, 1994.
>
>I welcome interested individuals, groups, companies to joint and support 
>this association, at this time, while Linux is ready to taking off, in a big 
>way, if we do it right.
>
>The chapters/affiliations at other locations will be formed/organized when
>we reach 5-10 members in that location.
>
>
>Contact:
>
>Charles Liu
>
>International Linux Association (ILA)
>1645 S. Bascom Ave., #7
>Campbell, CA 95008
>Phone/Fax: 408-369-9818
>alte@rahul.net
>-- 
>End of Note



------------------------------


** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **

The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:

    Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:

    Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
    nic.funet.fi				pub/OS/Linux
    tsx-11.mit.edu				pub/linux
    sunsite.unc.edu				pub/Linux

End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
