Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #191
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Mon, 30 May 94 17:13:08 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #191, Volume #2                Mon, 30 May 94 17:13:08 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
  Re: Term114 Problem..HELP (Harvey J. Stein)
  How can I use ctrl/shft-keys with my cursorkeys (Ramon de Klein(0053312220))
  Re: Looking for Linux BBS Software (Rocco Caputo)
  Re: openGL for linux (Gary Lawrence Murphy)
  fax getty and data getty? (Jared Mauch)
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (Byron A Jeff)
  Re: 4 MB too little for linux (Florian Schmidt)
  ATI GU Turbo (Bill Heiser)
  Re: ATI GU Turbo (Helmut Geyer)
  Slackware CD-ROMs for sale (Patrick J. Volkerding)
  PD NFS-Client software for PC (under DOS) ... (H.P.Heidinger)
  Re: This SLIP ought to work! (Janne Sinkkonen)
  Re: Competitive upgrade! Linux Plus CD-ROM! (Carsten Whimster)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dlj0@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: 30 May 1994 10:49:23 -0400

In article <2sbcgs$g03@virgo.cc.gatech.edu>, byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) writes:
>In article <1994May28.080358.19377@softwks.osgo.ks.he.schule.de>,
>Klaus Fueller <klausf@softwks.osgo.ks.he.schule.de> wrote:
>>In all this thread I don't see an argument to use Andrew's ez as a
>>word-processor.  It seems to me very complete, easyly configurable.  Why
>>don't build a word processor on top of it.
>
>1) Because it only runs on X. There is a real need for a text mode system.
>   Not everyone has the resources to run X. My students will be major
>   users of a WP like this. They work from VT-320 terminals. They can't
>   run EZ. EZ can't be run over telnet remotely either. And face it
>   unless you're on Ethernet, running X apps remotely is a slow proposition.
>
True, and a reasonable consideration.

>2) Because it requires a minimum of 4.5 Meg of Andrew to run.
>
Do you think any full-featured WYSIWYG wordprocessor can get by with less?
Looked at WP lately?

>3) Because it's sometimes not intuitive. I pulled it up yesterday so that
>   I can argue from experience about ez. I liked the setup (easy), the
>   help (comprehensive), and the interface (easy to use). However I tried
>   to set a font on a line of text. After 15 minutes or playing, reading the
>   help, fiddling with the mouse and menus, I could not do it.
>
I managed it, and then set it up so my kids can do it automatically, for any
font you might want.  What's the problem?  What do you mean ` set a font on a
line of text'?  You mean change the font on an existing line?  Or changing to a 
new font?  Both are really quite easy.  Run ez temp.doc  to see.  The extension
is important, since the behavior varies with the extension.

>4) EZ doesn't have precise text layout control. While it does make it
>   easy to use, some folks have complained here that tight layout control
>   is a must.
>
For tight layout control, you have to use TeX.

>5) And a somewhat subtle point. Linux really needs a WordProcessing Product
>   that it associated with it. There is no native WP tool for Linux. Everything
>   else (EZ and WordPerfect for example) is borrowed. We need a tool that
>   is identified with Linux and can do simple to moderate WP tasks. EZ
>   can't fit that bill.
>
I don't buy this.  Much of the code is `borrowed'.  Even X is.  that does not
diminish linux in the least.  Also, ez fills the bill, at least for X users.
It may not come to you optimaly set up for what you need, but if you administer 
the system you can customize it any way you want, to do what you need.

David L. Johnson                             ID:  dlj0@lehigh.edu
Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015       Telephone: 610-758-3759 (office)
                                                        610-828-3708 (home)
MS-DOS: Just say No!

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Term114 Problem..HELP
From: hjstein@sunset.huji.ac.il (Harvey J. Stein)
Date: 30 May 94 18:58:35

In article <2s8284$qjs@news.umbc.edu> jtaylo4@umbc.edu (J.Erick
Taylor) writes:

   I've got Term114 setup and working with an Sgi, but I'm having one
   problem. I can run trsh -s <command> just fine, yet when i try and
   run an interactive trsh i.e. trsh with no parameters, it says it can't
   open pty, no permission match.  Then it get hung into a timeout loop, and
   i have to hang-up the phone to kill the remote term.
   So what do I need to do to run the interactive shell?

It sounds like the ptys don't have the proper permissions on the SGI.
Try using the test program on the SGI to see how things work.  As a
work-around, try using tredir + telnet.  For example (done on the
local side, which I assume is not the SGI):

tredir 4000 23
telnet localhost 4000

This should get you into the SGI.  Check the man pages for more details.

Good luck,
--
Harvey J. Stein
Berger Financial Research

------------------------------

From: ramon@via.sni.de (Ramon de Klein(0053312220))
Subject: How can I use ctrl/shft-keys with my cursorkeys
Date: 30 May 94 13:26:02 GMT

Hi there,

Does anyone know how I can distinguish Left and S-Left? I've created my
own keytable, which remaps C-left and C-right to F25 and F26. But now
I ran out of functionkeys, so I can't remap C-up, C-down, S-left, etc.
(F13-F24 are defined as shifted F1-F12). I'ld love to use these keys in
my Emacs sessions. My solution to remap shifted/controlled cursorkeys
to functionkeys isn't very elegant, but has anyone a better solution?

I'm using Emacs v19.24 with Linux v1.0.9 en kbd v0.97.

--

Keep on hacking,                        \\\//
                                        (o o)
Ramon de Klein                  +----ooO-(_)-Ooo----+
Th. de Keyserstraat 298         |  _                |
7545 AJ  Enschede               | |_)        |/     |
The Netherlands                 | | \amon de |\lein |
                                |                   |
Email: ramon.via@sni.de         +-------------------+

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.bbs,alt.bbs.unixbbs,comp.bbs.misc
From: troc@loreli.ftl.fl.us (Rocco Caputo)
Subject: Re: Looking for Linux BBS Software
Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 14:29:09 GMT

Has anyone tried the number I posted here earlier?  The system I'm posting
from, loreli.ftl.fl.us, is a Linux news/mail provider modeled after DOS
bulletin board systems.  Unfortunately, there's no way to telnet in or out.
Try calling 305.985.0883 in the United States to see what it's about.

--
-><- Signature.

------------------------------

From: garym@argos.rose.utoronto.ca (Gary Lawrence Murphy)
Subject: Re: openGL for linux
Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 17:12:23 GMT

> On 29 May 94 02:37:32 GMT, 1zezschw@rzdspc2.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Hans Georg von Zezschwitz) said:

HGvZ> If I assume right you are looking for a PD-SGI-compatible Graphics Library
HGvZ> then this might help you:

HGvZ> vogle (Freeware), vogl ("Beerware").

HGvZ> Their main ftp-server is "gondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au" (128.250.70.62)

HGvZ> Hope this helps,

VOGL should be somewhere on sunsite, and the X11 drivers work fine
with Linux.  What is VOGL?  A (small) subset of SGI's old GL library
for 3D graphics, with perspectives, wire-frame modelling, backface
elimination and the matrix operations.  The downside is the lack of
support for any fancy functions (textures, shading &c) and the speed
(which is fine for my purposes) could benefit from a re-write in
fixed-point math ... but, hey, half a GL package is better than none!


--
Gary Lawrence Murphy ------------------ garym@selavy.rose.utoronto.ca
University of Toronto ---------- 4 Taddle Creek, Toronto, Ont M5S 1A4
Human Factors, Industrial Eng ------------- fax/voice: (416) 978-3776
======================================== Where do purposes come from?

------------------------------

From: jared@m-net.arbornet.org (Jared Mauch)
Subject: fax getty and data getty?
Date: 30 May 1994 17:13:59 GMT

I want to have the following:

When i get data calls/uucp calls on my line the computer goes and sends
them a login prompt when they get connected, but when it comes
to a incoming fax, it will start receiving the fax.  I have X windows running,
and would like to know what sorts of things are already developed, or where
to look/find this stuff?

        - Jared


Jared Mauch  jared@m-net.arbornet.org
+1 313 572 8751         bbs: +1 313 572 7504

------------------------------

From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: 30 May 1994 13:15:39 -0400

In article <2scudj$2e8c@ns2.cc.lehigh.edu>,
DAVID L. JOHNSON <dlj0@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU> wrote:
>In article <2sbcgs$g03@virgo.cc.gatech.edu>, byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) writes:
>>In article <1994May28.080358.19377@softwks.osgo.ks.he.schule.de>,
>>Klaus Fueller <klausf@softwks.osgo.ks.he.schule.de> wrote:
>>[ Let's use EZ! Some points deleted.]
>>2) Because it requires a minimum of 4.5 Meg of Andrew to run.
>>
>Do you think any full-featured WYSIWYG wordprocessor can get by with less?
>Looked at WP lately?

I have. A full release of WP 6.0 for windows takes about 30 Meg. It's
an obscene amount of space for an app to occupy.

The point I'm making however is that the need is not for a full-featured
WYSIWYG WP. EZ does fit that bill. I'm talking about something text based
where you can drop in some text, lay it out on the page, change some 
attributes, and print it out. And having this application be effective on
displays down to and including terminals, and machines downto and including
386SX16's with 4MB of memory and 40 Meg HD. And don't say machines like this
don't exist because I have a lab full of them at work right now. My students
use them for their work and they really don't have any way to write papers.

There's no application for the low end, text based, novice (must be easy to
use) user.

>
>>3) Because it's sometimes not intuitive. I pulled it up yesterday so that
>>   I can argue from experience about ez. I liked the setup (easy), the
>>   help (comprehensive), and the interface (easy to use). However I tried
>>   to set a font on a line of text. After 15 minutes or playing, reading the
>>   help, fiddling with the mouse and menus, I could not do it.
>>
>I managed it, and then set it up so my kids can do it automatically, for any
>font you might want.  What's the problem?  

The problem David was that I couldn't do it. I followed the directions and it
didn't work. I consider myself an expert. I have patience. A novice user would
give up after 30 seconds, say it's a piece of crap and wipe the hard disk and
go to DOS/Windows and WP/MSWORKS/WORD. And then expect me to support it.

>What do you mean ` set a font on a
>line of text'?

1) I installed the auis621L0-wp app that's sitting on sunsite.
2) I started X and started EZ. Window came up.
3) I typed in some text. No problem.
4) I used the left button to select some text.
5) I hit the middle button to bring up the card stack. I looked at all the
   cards and there was no menu item for changing the font.
6) I pulled up the help and read the section on font selection. It basically
   outlines steps 4 and 5 above except it say that a font card should be
   in the stack.
7) I tried several combinations of the above steps. None work.

Being intuitive means that the application should work as I expect it to
work. EZ didn't do the job here. Especially after I read the help section
just to find out I was doing it right the first time.

>  You mean change the font on an existing line?  Or changing to a 
>new font?

The former.

>  Both are really quite easy.  Run ez temp.doc  to see.  The extension
>is important, since the behavior varies with the extension.

If it were so easy David, I should have been able to do it. I still stand
by my claim that it's non-intuitive in this instance.

>
>>4) EZ doesn't have precise text layout control. While it does make it
>>   easy to use, some folks have complained here that tight layout control
>>   is a must.
>>
>For tight layout control, you have to use TeX.

This is debatable. EZ's authors made choices about layout control. The fact
of the matter is that there should be variable levels of control from
"Computer - lay this text out as you see fit." to "Computer - Lay this text
out exactly as I specify.". EZ and [La]TeX are on opposite ends of the
spectrum. I'm saying that we need something that covers a bit of both ends
plus the middle. Covering all the bases as it were. That way novice users
can just have text laid out for them while experts can precisely place stuff
where they like. We plan to make an attempt at this.

>
>>5) And a somewhat subtle point. Linux really needs a WordProcessing Product
>>   that it associated with it. There is no native WP tool for Linux. Everything
>>   else (EZ and WordPerfect for example) is borrowed. We need a tool that
>>   is identified with Linux and can do simple to moderate WP tasks. EZ
>>   can't fit that bill.
>>
>I don't buy this.  Much of the code is `borrowed'.  Even X is.  that does not
>diminish linux in the least.  Also, ez fills the bill, at least for X users.
>It may not come to you optimaly set up for what you need, but if you 
>administer the system you can customize it any way you want, to do what you 
>need.

True. But consider the market I'm targeting: novice users. They place high
premium on Brand Name. If Linux doesn't have it's own word processor, it's
no use to them. I know this from experience. 

Most experts won't use this LWPS tools except for quick
bang-out jobs anyway. It fills a niche. I envision LWPS as a plug and play,
text based tool, like EZ is plug and play X based tool.

I really have nothing against EZ. It seems to be a fine product. But it doesn't
fill the niche of being a text-based, ultra easy to use, low resource, write
memos and letters to Mom WP that's designed for Linux in particular, and Unix 
machines in general.

We need both. It's not an either/or kind of choice. I keep explaining this
because I keep getting mail and posts saying that EZ does everything that
needs to be done. I'm not convinced.

In fact EZ will help LWPS because it obviates the need to write an X based
WYSIWYG WP. All that will be necessary is to have a conversion tool between
the file formats of the two tools. Then we'll be covering all the bases.

Let's plan on working together, not against one another.

BAJ
-- 
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel - And Using Linux!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

From: F.SCHMIDT@BIONIC.zer.de (Florian Schmidt)
Subject: Re: 4 MB too little for linux
Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 23:00:00 +0000

reply on user ed.duomo@lambada.oit.unc.edu
>
> Could this be improved upon? I thought linux was supposd to run
> smoothly with 4 MB. BTW, the only thing non-standard in my
> installation is that I'm using kernel 1.1.2 instead of the one that
> came with Slackware.

my linux runs smoothly with 4mb (of course not, when im recompiling the  
kernel on another vt). after startup, i have about 1meg of memory free  
(physical, not virtual). maybe there was am option in the slackware -  
setup, that you missed (like install for machines <= 4mb).





--
florian schmidt - der kaempfer gegen die rechtschreibung und fuer ungehemmte kommunikation
GMU -d+ -p+ c++ l u--- e* m--- s++/+ !n f? g+ w+ t+ r y?
## CrossPoint v3.0 ##

------------------------------

From: bill@bhhome.ci.net (Bill Heiser)
Subject: ATI GU Turbo
Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 17:41:02 GMT

I have been planning to upgrade my ATI GU/1mb (MACH-8) by replacing it with an
ATI GUP /2mb (MACH-32).  Would I be better off just jumping right to
the MACH-64 board (ATI GUP Turbo/4mb)??  I understand this is not
"officially" supported by Xfree86 2.1 ... but will it work?  Is it 
advisable to try this board, or should I just save my $$ and get
the regular GUP?

This would be for use with an NEC 4DS or 5FGe/5FGp (not sure which yet).

Bill

-- 
Bill Heiser:    bill@bhhome.ci.net,  heiser@world.std.com

------------------------------

From: geyer@polyhymnia.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Helmut Geyer)
Subject: Re: ATI GU Turbo
Date: 30 May 1994 19:03:32 GMT

Bill Heiser (bill@bhhome.ci.net) wrote:
:>I have been planning to upgrade my ATI GU/1mb (MACH-8) by replacing it with an
:>ATI GUP /2mb (MACH-32).  Would I be better off just jumping right to
:>the MACH-64 board (ATI GUP Turbo/4mb)??  I understand this is not
:>"officially" supported by Xfree86 2.1 ... but will it work?  Is it 
:>advisable to try this board, or should I just save my $$ and get
:>the regular GUP?

1) The Mach64 is not supported by XFree86 at the moment and ATI did not
  yet give any information on the new chip without non-disclosure agreement.
  So it's not clear whether it will be supported soon.
2) The GUP (Mach32) is a fast card. If you do not want to do high-performance
  graphics, you will not need the Mach64 (even if it is much faster)
3) If you need a high-performance card, get a S3 8/964 based card. It might 
  be a little slower than the Mach64, but they will be supported soon (but
  don't ask me what soon means)

        Helmut


--
==============================================================================
Helmut Geyer                                Helmut.Geyer@iwr.uni-heidelberg.de

------------------------------

From: bf703@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Patrick J. Volkerding)
Subject: Slackware CD-ROMs for sale
Date: 30 May 1994 20:22:30 GMT
Reply-To: bf703@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Patrick J. Volkerding)


Support the Slackware project, it's running out of $! ;^)

I have a limited number (10) of the latest TransAmeritech CD-ROM (with
Slackware Linux 1.2.0 and NetBSD 0.9) that I'd like to sell to help
pay my giant phone bill. I'd like to get $25 for these, including
shipping. A photocopied installation manual, and a month of free email
support is included in the deal.

I've also got a few copies of the disc with Slackware 1.1.1, if anyone's
interested in those.

First come, first served, and only while supplies last. Phone orders are
preferred: (218) 233-4349, but you can also use email with the subject
"CD OFFER". Ask for Denise when you call.

Hope I haven't been too commercial for you. :^)

I'll post again when the CDs are gone, so you may want to check for a
post like that before calling.

-- 
Patrick Volkerding
volkerdi@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu
bf703@cleveland.freenet.edu

------------------------------

From: hph@hphbbs.E.open.DE (H.P.Heidinger)
Subject: PD NFS-Client software for PC (under DOS) ...
Reply-To: hph@hphbbs.e.open.de
Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 01:09:49 GMT


  Hello NetWorld,

  Does anybody outhere know about NFS-Client software for a PC
  under DOS which is in the public domain?

  Any pointers are appreciated (Email please)


Regards, Peter  
-- 
####################===============================****************************
# H.P. Heidinger   # Call  : +49-201-287433 (data) *      ~~ HPHBBS  ~~       *
# Steeler Str. 121 #       : V22/32/42bis/FAX, 8N1 *    UseNet City-Router    *
# 45138 Essen      # E-Mail: hph@hphbbs.E.open.de  *    for Essen/Germany     *

------------------------------

From: sinkkone@cc.Helsinki.FI (Janne Sinkkonen)
Subject: Re: This SLIP ought to work!
Date: 30 May 1994 23:06:26 +0300

In article <940530000038@lambada>,
Steve McMahon <steve.mcmahon@lambada.oit.unc.edu> wrote:
>I'm trying to setup up a SLIP link between two computers connected by
>a NULL-modem cable. I made sure to compile the kernel with SLIP
>support. I had installed the latest Slackware on both machines, and
>added this new kernel (1.1.6). I also read the networking HOWTO
>several times and the manual pages of the relevant programs.

This must be 1.1.16? Get also the associated conf programs & utilities
(net*d, don't remember the number, 032 maybe).

>Contrary to what's in the HOWTO, this command never returns -- on both
>ends. So I decided to try dip.

Get dip337a-uri.

>Machine A was called a.my.com, with address 127.0.0.1, i.e. /etc/hosts
>has
>
>  127.0.0.1   localhost
>  127.0.0.1   a.my.com

Isn't 127.0.0.1 reserver for loopbacks? Try 128.something.

>and /etc/rc.d/rc.inet2 has
>
>  /sbin/ifconfig lo 127.0.0.1
>  /sbin/route add -net 127.0.0.0

DIscard the latter. DIP should take care of routing.

>Additionally, I hanged a getty of its end of the comm port by adding
>to /etc/inittab the following (it was already there, I just
>uncommented it):
>
>  s1:45:respawn:/sbin/agetty 19200 ttyS0

getty_ps is recommended, although I have used agetty for logins in
serial port without problems.

>Machine B was called b.my.com, with address 126.0.0.1. It's /etc/hosts
>and /etc/rd.d/rc.inte2 were adjusted to include the lines:

Put them into 128 both. Don't care about the names at first, just use
the ip addresses.

>DIP> mode SLIP
>
>Dip then went into the background, and I was was dropped to the shell
>in machine B:

This itself is ok.

Hope this helps.
--
Janne



------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin
From: bcrwhims@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Carsten Whimster)
Subject: Re: Competitive upgrade! Linux Plus CD-ROM!
Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 20:16:29 GMT

In article <2scugn$dsc@openlink.openlink.com>,
Roman Yanovsky  roman@btr.com <roman@btr.btr.com> wrote:
>       !!!! Attention, users of the Linux and BSD operating systems !!!!

[snip]

>To make it easier for you to compare our product to others, for a limited time
>we offer a COMPETITIVE UPGRADE for half the price!
>
>                        !!! HERE IS THE DEAL !!!
>
>Send us ANY OLD CDROM Software Title in ANY condition, and we'll mail
>the great Trans-Ameritech Linux Plus CDROM for ONLY $20.
>
>
>       New Release of Trans-Ameritech Linux Plus CD-ROM! 

[snip]

Sounds neat. The upgrade offer sounds like you can send in any old
CD-ROM you don't use any more, but I imagine it has to be a LINUX
CD-ROM?

Does anyone have any experience with these people? How are they? Is
the CD worth it ($20 or ~$40, I guess)? How is this compared to the
Walnut Creek stuff?
-- 
===================================================================
Carsten Whimster              --- EDM/2 Associate Editor
bcrwhims@uwaterloo.ca         --- EDM/2 Book Review columnist
                              --- TEAM-OS/2

------------------------------


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