Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #164
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Tue, 24 May 94 13:13:17 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #164, Volume #2                Tue, 24 May 94 13:13:17 EDT

Contents:
  Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Bill Hogan)
  Re: A good NFS server ? (Martin Sohnius)
  Re: Who are you & what do you do w/ Linux? (The Graphical Gnome)
  Re: PCI or VL bus SCSI Host Adapters (Dave Hinz)
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
  Re: LAN vs. linux (Dave Hinz)
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (Peter Klein)
  Printing Woes... (Robert Wesley Bingler)
  Re: 3 instnaces of vaporware (Kelly Murray)
  Universal CD-ROM resells Linux 1.x (Charles Liu)
  Re: Linux Journal #2 Anybody get theirs yet? (Andrew Appel)
  Re: Wait'll you see the May 16th PCWEEK... (Brandon S. Allbery)
  Why Linux? (Caesar Wong)
  Is there a Linux 'mailtool'? (Schmid)
  Re: Installation hangs (Robert G. Smith)
  Re: SLACKWARE KERNEL - E2FSCK PROB. (David W. Berry)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan)
Subject: Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: 24 May 1994 01:24:55 -0700

Mike Suzio (msuzio@tiamat.umd.umich.edu) wrote:
: bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan) writes:

: >  As far as I am concerned, it is up to c.o.l.a. to announce anything 
: >they feel like announcing, but I do not think commercial software 
: >developers have any more _right_ to be announced in c.o.l.a. than they 
: >have to be announced in PC Week.

: Well, I think this is a sticky point.  I hate the commercialization of
: the Net as much as anyone.  I also respect the spirit Linux was written
: under - free software, with everyone having a right to get the source
: code. 

: However... I think Linux is still very much in it's infancy, and 
: fighting an uphill battle to become a mature, widely-used OS.  One of the 
: big things standing in the way is lack of software.  Even with the 
: thousands upon thousands of great *free* apps out there, Linux lacks 
: "killer" software.  One of the big things it lacks is a good editor (sorry, 
: Emacs fails the tests - if I can't sit my Windoze pals in front of it and 
: have them like it, it's not a "killer-app").  This is why I want to see 
: more quality software for Linux, commercial or not.  I just feel that in
: cases like this, it best serves the community to relax the standards and
: try to publicize *any* effort to make Linux a more appealing OS to the
: masses of people who are savvy enough to want to leave DOS/Windoze, but
: still need access to the apps they like.  I mean, this is like shooting
: down the effort to run SCO binaries because then people would run
: *commercial* software on our wonderful *free* OS!

 ...

  I agree, the question about which Linux ports to publicize in c.o.l.* 
is debatable; as I have said, I think that insofar as c.o.l.* is 
concerned, that decision rests with the people who administer c.o.l.a.

  I am of course only guessing, but I am beginning to suspect that Novell, 
at least, might be looking at this situation in somewhat the way I am.

  Let me imagine for a moment that I am running Novell...

  I tell my lawyers to study the GPL and report back to me.

  The lawyers come back and say:

                -----*-----

  Basically what the GPL says is, you can add to GPL'ed software but you
can't subtract from it, sir.
 
  If, for example, we write a DOS emulator or a Windows emulator that
depends on the GPL'ed software, we have to add our software _to_ the
GPL'ed software; we can give it away or we can charge a fee, but the whole
package -- GPL + DOS emulator + Windows emulator -- is covered by the
terms of the GPL, source codes included ... 

  You can add to it but you can't subtract from it?

  Yes, sir.

  Hmm. DOS and Windows -- aren't those Microsoft products?

  Yes, sir.

  Why should we want to write a DOS emulator or a Windows emulator -- 
what's the point?

  Not sure, sir.

  What the hell business are we in, any way?

  Networking products, sir, mainly.

  What do people need to use our networking products?

  An operating system that supports our networking products, sir.

  What about this GPL stuff, does it come with an operating system that 
can support our networking products?

  Yes sir, called Linux.

  Any good?

  Some of our people think so, sir -- but what is perhaps more 
significant, sir, is the number of former DOS+Windows _users_ who are now 
_running_ Linux.

  You mean that they are now both system administrators and system users?

  Yes, sir.

  Hmm, that is interesting.
 
  What about a DOS emulator and a Windows emulator?

  Under development, sir. 'dosemu' is pretty stable now and 'Wine" is 
coming on strong.

  SCO binaries?

  Almost there, sir -- the rate of change is incredible!

  Can we keep our networking products separate from the GPL?

  Yes sir, as long as they do not depend on any software that is covered 
by the GPL.

  But don't we already have that requirement covered!

  Yes, sir, obviously, sir.

  Hmm.

  OK, here's the deal.

  Gentlemen, we are going to start giving away operating systems that 
will support our networking products!

  Sir?

  You heard me right, gentlemen, we are going to give away operating
systems that support our networking products -- well, not exactly _give_
them away -- we will package the stuff real nice, maybe tweak it a little
bit, but basically we will be selling it at cost. 

  Just make damn sure our products run on it.

        -----*-----

  Why not?

  Only asking!
  
  Bill
-- 
  Bill Hogan
{bhogan@crl.com}

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.unixware,comp.unix.solaris
From: msohnius@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius)
Subject: Re: A good NFS server ?
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 13:36:25 GMT

Amancio Hasty Jr (hasty@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <Cq9Cp8.IEp@novell.co.uk> msohnius@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius) writes:
: >Craig I. Hagan (hagan@opine.cs.umass.edu) wrote:
: >: Martin Sohnius (msohnius@novell.co.uk) wrote:
: >: > Alan Cox (iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr) wrote:
: >: > : In article <Cq1HGz.8w1@hippo.ru.ac.za> csgr@cs.ru.ac.za writes:
: >: > : >[.. something about Linux and freeBDS...]
: >
: >: > : [.. something else about Linux and something about BSD in general...]
: >
: >: > Hey, you guys,  this whole thread is degenerating into a little
: >: > NFS-on-BSD discussion!
: >
: >: the point is to get people talking about what is a good nfs
: >: server. since linux isn't the best, people who need the
: >
: >The problem I was addressing is that this stuff is being CROSSPOSTED
: >to comp.unix.unixware.  Now, UnixWare is most definitely NOT a 
: >free operating system, and therefore has about the best NFS support
: >imaginable. :-)  (I think it originates from Sun, through the old
: >AT&T + Sun agreement.)
: >

: I don't mind to sound hard but isn't your statement a bit arrogant and
: ignorant. Corporate hype serves its purpose inside your company.


: Care to back up your statement with some hard facts?

: At any rate, I doubt that you will post back. 

I am not easily discouraged, as those people who actually follow
comp.unix.UNIXWARE will know.-)

My original statement, after I noticed that this was being crossposted,
was an enquiry as to why it is crossposted.  If you do crosspost to a
commercial Unix release's newsgroup, I am afraid you'll simply have to put
up with people who are, by popular demand, supporting their product in
this fashion, and who may be convinced that their product is the best
thing since sliced bread:-)  (BTW, know what smileys are?)

Also, the one place where corporate hype does NOT serve its purpose
is inside a company.  That's where one is critically evaluating one's
efforts all the time in order to improve the product.

UnixWare NFS comes from a company which is not exactly new to networking.

--
Martin Sohnius

Novell Labs Europe
Bracknell, England
+44-344-724031

(My opinions may not be those of Novell!)

------------------------------

From: rdb@ktibv.uucp (The Graphical Gnome)
Subject: Re: Who are you & what do you do w/ Linux?
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 08:26:04 GMT

OK, i'll bite.

I'm a 32 years old professional software engineer for a enginering company.

It all started about three years ago when I started to use Emacs and
TeX on a pc running dos. It turned out to be (almost) hopeless. I saw
on a BBS LINUX 0.95 disks. I downloaded it, tested it and used it.A
rare thing for me, becuase I reject a lot of software.

All the developers on he automation department use linux now, running
X. It is better then using e.g. telnet under dos. (We do our
development on a HP/9000 and use Xterm to connect to the HP.

The advantages of Linux (Multi tasking are clear). I can go on with
rendering nice pictures while looking busy.
 
I do not much development on LINUX, because of lack of time.

 
Happy Hacking The Graphical Gnome

=============================================================================
| Rob den Braasem    | "Before I sink into the big  | Voice : -31-79-531825 |
|                    |  sleep, I want to hear the   | Fax   : -31-79-513561 |
|                    |  scream of the butterfly."   | Mail  :               |
| "PABRAS"           |  J. Morrison                 |          rdb@ktibv.nl |
| KTI bv             |------------------------------| ----------------------|
| P.O. Box 86        | "I die when it's time for me to die. So let me live  | 
| 2700 AB Zoetermeer |   my life the way I want to."                        |
| The Netherlands    |   Jimi Hendrix                                       |
=============================================================================


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development
From: daveh@texlin.minmet.mcgill.ca (Dave Hinz)
Subject: Re: PCI or VL bus SCSI Host Adapters
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 15:28:13 GMT

James Soutter wrote:

: SCSI adapters on a PCI bus are supposed to be much better than SCSI
: adapters on an ISA bus because PCI supports 16 word burst most
: transfer.  This will also improve CPU throughput because less CPU
: cycles will be lost waiting for the SCSI controller to finish with the
: bus.

I phoned up several mail-order retailers the other day and learned from
one (Micron) that the PCI bus interface has some serious problems in
supporting SCSI-2 cards for 486 DX2-66 and 486 DX4-100 machines--they
resultantly don't offer any!  Gateway is in the same boat.

Can anyone tell me exactly what the problems are (timing?) and whether
there are any fixes in the works?

Dave H.
daveh@texlab.minmet.mcgill.ca


------------------------------

From: dlj0@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: 24 May 1994 10:21:24 -0400

In article <1994May24.002257.676@escape.widomaker.com>, shendrix@escape.widomaker.com (C. S. Hendrix) writes:
>Dominic Fraser (dominic@pepper.cuug.ab.ca) wrote:
>
>: I don't understand. Have none of you used the AndrewToolKit 'ez' 
>: wordprocessor?. I have used it for 5 months now with great success, my 
>: wife likes, it, I like it, my daughter uses it everyday. It produces 
>: exactly what I expect in a decent wysiwig Wp package and outputs in 
>: postscript, how much more could I ask?
>
I agree.

>Big problem with ez is that is it not WYSIWYG, thought it looks that
>way.  An ez document is formatted differently for each device it is
>currently being view on.  In the ez editor the look of the document,
>page breaks, and so on change every time you resize a window.  When
>you print, nothing is where it was in the ez window.  
>
A small bit of experimentation, and judicious choices of fonts, will allow
you to choose a window size that reflects printed line length.  

It certainly is WYSIAWYG.  And it's easy to use.  And, unlike doc, it works
and is responsive.

>A wordprocessor's screen should reflect what the document will look like
>when PRINTED.  So if after this line the window shows a page break,
>it should occur in that same place when printed.  That doesn't happen
>with ez.  You cannot set margins or control exactly where text will
>appear.
>
You can too.  You certainly can set margins.


>Of course, that may not be important to some but I often need to
>have tight control over output and ez will not do that.
>
For tight control, you need TeX.  Most word processors are not that accurate,
either.

>I would think that ez could be modified to handle things differently.
>
Yes, it can be,

>: For me, the discovery of ATK was the end of my mess-dos partition.
>
Do you have TeX, and a dvi printer engine?  I use eps to print ez doc's;
it's much better output and somewhat faster.  Just edit your atkprint file.

I think spending a little time figuring out how to set up ez will be a lot
less hassle than trying to write it over again.  It'll take years to get
its functionality.


David L. Johnson                             ID:  dlj0@lehigh.edu
Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015       Telephone: 610-758-3759 (office)
                                                        610-828-3708 (home)
MS-DOS: Just say No!

------------------------------

From: daveh@texlin.minmet.mcgill.ca (Dave Hinz)
Subject: Re: LAN vs. linux
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 15:48:38 GMT

Serguei Iourine wrote:
: Hi!
: I've just installed linux on my computer but I have some problems with
: connecting it to lan which runs novell software.
: Could anybody tell me if there is:
: LINUX EQUIVALENT of IPXPKT (which will wrap up a tcp/ip packet with Novell 
: stuff that gets stripped off at the server).

: Regards

I am not sure about your understanding of the problem.  I believe that
the ability to route the unix ip protocols is present in the Novell
software (perhaps at extra cost?) so that there is no need to
concern yourself with any modifications to Linux.  All our Unix TCP/IP
machines are currently networked through a Novell server and no
modifications were required at the Unix side.

Dave H.



------------------------------

From: klein@pc-klein.zxa.basf-ag.de (Peter Klein)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: 24 May 1994 11:07:21 GMT
Reply-To: peter.klein@zxa.basf-ag.de

In article <2rljpv$egt@virgo.cc.gatech.edu>, 
Byron A Jeff (byron@cc.gatech.edu) wrote:

[..]
: 3) Word Processing: I've finally figured out that outside of the expert class
:    that folks really only use computers to write documents. I can name
[..]
:    around have centered around complex issues like object based semantic 
:    models and SGML layout architecture. But at heart there are only 5 or
:    6 essential tasks that a WP needs to perform:

:    1) Getting text into a document (obviously)
:    2) Applying attributes to portions of the text (fonts, size, bold, italics)
:    3) Printing
:    4) The ability to include graphics
:    5) WYSIWYG
:    6) Simple interface for commands.
:    7) On-line and offline documentation
:    
[..]
: Comments accepted, flames ignored.

: Later,

: BAJ

Hallo,
I agree with your task list and I think the WP you are looking for is 
(almost) there. Recently I had a short look at the "ez"-editor (Ver. 7.0, 
ATK 6.2) of the Andrew-Toolkit. This so called "MultiMediaEditor" seems to 
meet at least 6 out of your 7 points. Even point 6, the simplicity of the 
user interface, may be reached by a wise configuration. The features of
ez are quite impressive. 

On the other hand, if you really need a full featured commercial WP:
With the (still alpha) ibcs2-extensions to the Linux kernel you should be
able to run WordPerfect 5.1 for SCO under Linux and X. I just tried a demo
version (from ftp.wordperfect.com) without problems. The ibcs2-patches 
should soon become part of the default kernel.   

Peter
--
=============================================================================
                                                  Peter Klein
                                                  Dep. ZXA/PP
                                                  BASF-AG
                                                  D-67056 Ludwigshafen
                                                  Germany

                                                  peter.klein@zxa.basf-ag.de
=============================================================================

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help
From: rwb3y@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Robert Wesley Bingler)
Subject: Printing Woes...
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 14:46:10 GMT

Hey,
        I am having trouble with printing.  I installed Slackware 1.2 a couple
weeks ago, and have had no difficulty printing until today.  I have been using
a printcap that simply sends everything to ghostscipt to print.

        lp:lp=/dev/lp1:sd=/usr/spool/lp1:sh:pl=63\
                :if=/usr/lib/mypsflt:

This has been working fine.  Unfortunately, everything has stopped working now.
When I send anything to the print it gets queued but won't print because the
status of the printer is reported as being:

        waiting for lp to become ready (offline ?)

The print job just sits there, refusing to go any further.  The printer device
isn't even responding correctly.  When I dump something to the printer it
reports:

        ls -l file > /dev/lp1
        sh: /dev/lp1: No such device

What in the world is happening?  The /dev/lp1 is there. Everything was great
until today.  I am using a Cannon Bubblejet 10ex.  The /dev entry looks like:

        crw-rw-rw-   1 root     lp         6,   1 Nov 30 14:30 lp1

Thanks,
Rob

==============================================================================
Robert Bingler       rwb3y@virginia.edu        Not to fear, Linux 1.0 is here.
"Look to the sky just before you die, it's the last time you will!" -Metallica
==============================================================================










-- 
==============================================================================
Robert Bingler       rwb3y@virginia.edu        Not to fear, Linux 1.0 is here.
"Look to the sky just before you die, it's the last time you will!" -Metallica
==============================================================================

------------------------------

From: kem@prl.ufl.edu (Kelly Murray)
Subject: Re: 3 instnaces of vaporware
Date: 24 May 1994 00:56:36 GMT

In article <2rs1aq$aeg@acme.gatech.edu>, gt8134b@prism.gatech.edu (Robert Sanders) writes:
|> ftlofaro@unlv.edu (Frank Lofaro) writes:
|> 
|> >What are 3 well known instances of vapor-ware?
|> >The Hurd, Debian Linux, and WINE!
|> >:) :) :)
|> 
|> Okay, smilies aside, only one of those is truly well-known, and
|> when you have access to BETA versions, only the true "release" is
|> vapor.  A Debian BETA is available from sunsite, WINE now runs
|> several programs and is available in new versions every week or so,
|> and the Hurd now runs (somewhat).
|> 
|> These things may be less than solid, but they're not vapor.

I guess that would put them in a liquid state? (Solid > Liquid > Vapor :-)

-Kelly




------------------------------

From: alte@rahul.net (Charles Liu)
Subject: Universal CD-ROM resells Linux 1.x
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 13:30:55 GMT

        Universal CD-ROM (tm) offers the following CD-ROM Titles. If you 
know some other place offers better price, please let us know, we will 
try to match. 

        The price does not include shipping and California sales tax (if 
applicable).  We accept Visa/MasterCharge Card.

        Universal CD-ROM (tm)
        1645 S. Bascom Ave., #7
        Campbell, CA 95008
        (408)369-9818
        Email: alte@rahul.net
=============================================================

LINUX 1.0  for  $19.95 + Shipping $3 + California Sales tax if applicable.

By InfoMagic, Linux CD-ROM new release in 4/94, is a double CD set 
containing the entire archives from sunsite.unc.edu and tsx-11.mit.edu.  In addition the disc contains the TAMU
1.0-A distribution and the complete GNU Source archive from prep.ai.mit.edu.

Important version numbers:

Kernel 1.0
Slackware 1.2.0.2
SLS 1.0.5
TAMU 1.0-A
Debian 0.91 Beta

The SLS bootdisks have been customized to allow
installation directly from the CD.



-- 
End of Note

------------------------------

From: aappel@panix.com (Andrew Appel)
Subject: Re: Linux Journal #2 Anybody get theirs yet?
Date: 24 May 1994 07:48:10 -0400

In <58@misty.suffolk.edu> cocco@misty.suffolk.edu (Vincent Cocco) writes:

>I do'nt know about everyone else who subscribed at the BCS MegaMeeting
>at UMASS Boston but I'm still waiting on My Linux Journal Mag.  I got
>the cancelled check a while ago but still no issue.  
>Anybody get there's yet?

>Vin Cocco
>Suffolk University

I am also waiting patiently.  I sent my AMEX # over a month ago.  The payment
showed up on my statement.  I still don't have a copy.

I have received reports of many people overseas having received their copies
already.  It amazes me how we can ship something overseas but can't get it
mailed locally.

I hope I see Issue 2 before Issue 3 hits the newstand!


------------------------------

From: bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery)
Subject: Re: Wait'll you see the May 16th PCWEEK...
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 11:34:37 GMT

In article <2rrkh3$43q@cancer.cssc-syd.tansu.com.au>, chrisb@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Chris Bitmead) says:
+---------------
| One thing that puzzles me is why Novell would want Linux anyway.  They own
| the "real" unix code i.e SVR4. Why would they need someone elses copy of
| unix to make it cheaper. Surely they can sell SVR4 for whatever price they
| want?
+------------->8

Not if they don't want existing SVR4 licensees to revolt...

AT&T USL was really good at p*ssing off its licensees.  Novell is trying not
to continue the tradition.

++Brandon
-- 
Brandon S. Allbery         kf8nh@kf8nh.ampr.org          bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org
The FUDs at Microsoft are shouting "Kill The Wabi!"

------------------------------

From: caesarw@agora.rdrop.com (Caesar Wong)
Subject: Why Linux?
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 11:26:09 GMT

What's the main differences between Linux and (free) BSD?  I'm in the process
of downloading Linux (Slackware) and have setup about half of the 50 or so
and started wondering why Linux is so popular..  I mean, isn't BSD more of
a standard that Linux?  So if BSD is free too, then there must be some
advantage to getting Linux..  What is it?

                                                -Caesar Wong

--
==============================================================================
  From the computer of    |  ImagiNation  | "Never attribute to malice
  Caesar Wong             |    Network    |  that which is adequately
  caesarw@agora.rdrop.com | MailBox 98008 |  explained by stupidity"

------------------------------

From: sg088sc@uni-duisburg.de (Schmid)
Subject: Is there a Linux 'mailtool'?
Date: 24 May 1994 12:12:26 GMT

Hi world,

im looking for an X11-mail frontend for Linux. Currently I'm
using 'pine' in an xterm but rather would use something
like the Sparc-'mailtool'.

If there is such a tool available somewhere, please tell me
(and where to obtain it).

thanks Ernst-Georg


------------------------------

From: rob@bip.anatomy.upenn.edu (Robert G. Smith)
Subject: Re: Installation hangs
Date: 24 May 1994 13:53:54 GMT

Steven Nygard (nygard@cpsc.ucalgary.ca) wrote:
: I am trying to install Linux on a 386-20 w. 8 megs of Ram, single serial 
: card with a 16550, a Maxtor XT-4170E (~157 Meg), and a Western Digital 
: WD1007A ESDI controller.

Please remember to keep your posts less than 70 chars/line so they
don't overflow.

: The installation disk works fine (for about 20 seconds) right up to the point
: where it checks for audio adapters.  My system has none, but the installation
: hangs at that point.  I have a feeling that it is having trouble with the ESDI
: hard drive.

Try the "bare.gz" boot image disk instead.  It has only the
hd drivers.  It solved the same problem for me.  Once you
get the system configured with gcc, of course, you can 
recompile with whatever drivers you want.

Rob Smith

------------------------------

From: dwb@netcom.com (David W. Berry)
Subject: Re: SLACKWARE KERNEL - E2FSCK PROB.
Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 16:33:31 GMT

In article <Cq27uI.J9D@ucdavis.edu> ez030933@othello.ucdavis.edu (Your Listener) writes:
>Hi, the boot-up e2fsck made me can not login the file sys 4-ever and
>I have to install the whole slackware 1.2 again.
>e2fsck give me :
>
>Please manually use e2fsck. ***** REBOOT ******
I would suggest trying the "single" option on the boot/lilo line
to force the machine to boot single user.  Once you're up single
user you can run fsck and reboot.

-- 

David W. Berry          dwb@netcom.com                  Greenwing Enterprises

------------------------------


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