Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #157
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Mon, 23 May 94 00:13:09 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #157, Volume #2                Mon, 23 May 94 00:13:09 EDT

Contents:
  CD purchase benefits linux project? (Darrel Hankerson)
  Re: InfoMagic CD-ROM -- how to order? (Charles Liu)
  Re: Simple (OO)DBMS (archerdave@delphi.com)
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (Byron A Jeff)
  Re: 3 instnaces of vaporware (Brandon S. Allbery)
  Re: Can I run a DOS app. in Linux? (David Holland)
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (Byron A Jeff)
  Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Bill Hogan)
  Re: CD purchase benefits linux project? (Adam J. Richter)
  Re: 3 instnaces of vaporware (     job)
  Linux booting root from HD.. Solved. (x93christia1@wmich.edu)
  Re: 3 instnaces of vaporware (Frank Lofaro)
  Yggdrasil CDROM for Sale! (Edward Baichtal)
  Virtual consoles > 12? (Jon Freivald)
  Pipes don't work in crontab (Paul Bingman)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: hankedr@mail.auburn.edu (Darrel Hankerson)
Subject: CD purchase benefits linux project?
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 01:58:58 GMT


Do any of the CD purchases directly benefit the linux project (in the
way that purchase of FSF CDs benefits GNU)?

I've examined the docs, but please flame me in the right direction if
I've missed something. I've installed a minimal version from diskettes
some time ago. It appears that folks on c.o.l.m like Yggdrasil.

--
--Darrel Hankerson hankedr@mail.auburn.edu

------------------------------

From: alte@rahul.net (Charles Liu)
Subject: Re: InfoMagic CD-ROM -- how to order?
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 02:10:33 GMT

In article <1994May20.134904.10314@news.wrc.xerox.com>,
Bruce Bigby <brucebigby@aol.com> wrote:
>
>What is InfoMagic CD-Rom?
>
>Bruce

We, Universal CD-ROM (tm)  resells InfoMagic's Linux publication.  
Following gives some information:

LINUX 1.0  for  $19.95 + Shipping $3 + California Sales tax if applicable.

By InfoMagic, Linux CD-ROM new release in 4/94, is a double CD set 
containing the entire archives from sunsite.unc.edu and tsx-11.mit.edu.  In addition the disc contains the TAMU
1.0-A distribution and the complete GNU Source archive from prep.ai.mit.edu.

Important version numbers:

Kernel 1.0
Slackware 1.2.0.2
SLS 1.0.5
TAMU 1.0-A
Debian 0.91 Beta

The SLS bootdisks have been customized to allow
installation directly from the CD.


-- 
End of Note

------------------------------

From: archerdave@delphi.com
Subject: Re: Simple (OO)DBMS
Date: Sun, 22 May 94 22:24:33 -0500

Hi Andrej!
 
I have posted to other threads extolling the vertues of OBST 3-4 an OODBMS
from the STONE project at FZI.DE! Yes nextdoor in Germany!
 
It's main use is as a persistent store for C++ in a software development
environment (ie. STONE).
 
You can use C++ front end or the tcl/tk one tclOBST.
 
Get it from ftp.fzi.de! There is a mail list as well. See the readme in
direcory /pub/obst3-4 or somthing like that.
 
There are also postscript li files of documentation and reports in a /doc
directory.
 
As I said in annother thread- I use it and I like it!
 
Dave Archer archerdave@delphi.com

------------------------------

From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: 22 May 1994 22:28:47 -0400

In article <1994May22.135359.8130@pepper.cuug.ab.ca>,
Dominic Fraser <dominic@pepper.cuug.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>I don't understand. Have none of you used the AndrewToolKit 'ez' 
>wordprocessor?. I have used it for 5 months now with great success, my 
>wife likes, it, I like it, my daughter uses it everyday. It produces 
>exactly what I expect in a decent wysiwig Wp package and outputs in 
>postscript, how much more could I ask?
>
>For me, the discovery of ATK was the end of my mess-dos partition.

I think use is an overstatement for me. I've played with it and it's
a step in the right direction. However it doesn't completely fill the gap:

- It's X based only - the problem with this is that many of us do not
  have the facilities to run X adequately. I'm living on a 4 MB ram 386DX40
  with 120 Meg HD and I'm struggling to get my new S3 card running. X
  is dog slow for me because of swapping. It's not a viable option.

  Also I work in an environment where I have students using Linux over
  VT-320 terminals. Since there is no text mode WP available, they're
  out of luck.

- Michael Johnson says in another post that it took awhile for him to get
  used to it. He knows (just by commenting on ease-of-use) that a WP that's
  somewhat hard to grasp will have severe problems in the market it's trying 
  to serve.

- Perception: ez is clearly a part of the Andrew Toolkit. Linux needs its own 
  clearly identifiable WP program that gets distributed in the distributions
  along with the system. It should operate out of the box, not depend on
  any particular system config, be easy to use, and be good.

There is still a niche to be filled and LWPS should it come to being could
possibly fill that niche.

I will make an effort to set up and use ez the week so I can get a grasp of 
the kinds of features it has. I'm planning on pulling from a lot of existing
products as it is.

Later,

BAJ
-- 
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel - And Using Linux!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

From: bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery)
Subject: Re: 3 instnaces of vaporware
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 01:48:17 GMT

In article <2rotke$l0i@uuneo.neosoft.com>, dlogue@news.neosoft.com (Dan Logue) says:
+---------------
| Am I missing something here? I am currently running Debian Linux just fine.
| Is this a private joke... if so it's very well done.
+------------->8

Someone doesn't know the difference between beta-test-release and unreleased.

++Brandon
-- 
Brandon S. Allbery         kf8nh@kf8nh.ampr.org          bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org
The FUDs at Microsoft are shouting "Kill The Wabi!"

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Can I run a DOS app. in Linux?
From: dholland@husc7.harvard.edu (David Holland)
Date: 22 May 94 21:53:26


rob@pe1chl.ampr.org's message of Fri, 20 May 1994 22:09:11 GMT said:

 > There are limits, but dosemu can run many graphic DOS programs.  I have
 > an ET4000 card and all viewers for DOS run under dosemu.
 > 
 > Of course, if you have X you better use XV to view pictures...

Doubtful. qpeg in dosemu runs a good sight faster than xv. (In fact,
it's pretty scary: on my 386SX, it decodes and displays jpegs faster
than it can display its menu.) On the other hand, qpeg seems to cut
corners in color quantization.

--
   - David A. Holland          | "The right to be heard does not automatically
     dholland@husc.harvard.edu |  include the right to be taken seriously."

------------------------------

From: byron@cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: 22 May 1994 22:49:18 -0400

In article <2roqh7$l69@hydrox.cs.umd.edu>,
Hui-Hui Hu <hdesiato@cs.umd.edu> wrote:
-In article <2rmhsp$hmq@virgo.cc.gatech.edu>,
-Byron A Jeff <byron@cc.gatech.edu> wrote:
-[..]
-
->In article <2rlpbb$ifp@e4310h01.lerc.nasa.gov>,
->Lisa Henn <schenn@lerc.nasa.gov> wrote:
-[..]
->>>1) The lemming syndrome: novices need to be able to be part of a group
->>>   that share similar software. 
-
->>I agree.  I think it's because they like to feel like there is plenty of 
->>support for them if they get stuck.
-
-Linux's lifeblood is basically the net, so.. having a detailed manual
-page that is suitable for printout as well as on-line help should have
-to do it. What kind of support does WP have? I always dove into
-the stupid boxes of manuals to.. but online help was sufficient for me..

Two points I'd like to point out.

1) Many Linux users don't have net access.
2) The kind of support I'm talking about is walking down the hall to the
   next cubicle and asking how to do X. The lemming syndrome works as long
   as all the folks in an area have the same tools (which is a likely
   scenario).

-
->>>3) Word Processing: I've finally figured out that outside of the expert class
->>>   that folks really only use computers to write documents. 
-
->>Absolutely!  And, as you allude to later on, most users write documents with
->>simple layouts:  tabs to format it left-to-right, carriage returns to format
->>it top-to-bottom, lines drawn with the _ key or using an underline font,
->>WYSIWYG.  If they get fancy, a table.  Do you include tables in your essential
->>task #4, "The ability to include graphics"?
-
-If we're going to use WP as an example, I'd make a category, "graphics box".
-Sort of like the stuff in *roff. Include an encapsulated postscript file,
-or an image - all this would be written out in some sort of format, I guess,
-like TeX (here I'm shooting out of the hip, I don't use TeX much).

Postscript. Even more universal than TeX.


-
->>There's one more thing I would add based on my observations of WordPerfect
->>users:  a spell checker.  I suppose an interface to ispell would work dandily.
-
-What might be cool is linking the word processor into 'net resources,
-if available: sort of how lynx's online help is a hypertext link to
-the author's site. That would save on local space, and be pretty flexible
-on updates and so on. How about a dictionary "webster" function that fires
-a link to the webster server at MIT or something?

Again you're assuming that everyone has net access. We have to think about
the lowest common denominator and that definitely includes netless
folks. We can consider these as options however.

-
->>I would say that a key to a _popular_ WP is that it performs average WP
->>tasks and not much else.  That way, it focuses on those average tasks and
->>makes them VERY straightforward for your average user.  This is (part of)
->>why (imo, of course!), WordPerfect is such a popular package.
-
-Ahh, this IMHO should be changed to "Does average tasks, easily" but
-is also robust enough to include a lot of other features. The features
-should be available, but shouldn't bother users.

Agreed with the caveat of not being bitten by the featuritis bug. Build
the core functionality, get it out, add extensions later. User extensibility
will be a feature.

-
-I agree with this. |
-                   v
->>We could do one better by making the average tasks straightfoward but 
->>(somehow) make more complicated tasks readily accessible for those who want
->>to venture that way.  (That's my big complaint about WordP--it doesn't do
->>anything more complicated than a memo easily).
-
->Well that an arguable point since we have ultra sophisticated tools already
->for doing complicated tasks. Balancing power/complexity with simplicity/
->ease of use is a tough task. I'm thinking for this we err to the latter and
->just KISS (Keep It Simple Silly!).
-
- Seems like your editor is already complicated enough to give up on 
- that point :)

Not really. I see the WP task as such:

1) Input text (obviously)
2) Use the mouse to select portions of text for operations.
3) one of the mouse buttons will popup a commands menu
4) The mouse is used to select the approriate command.
5) On-line context sensitive help would be available at all times.

That's about it. Commands would include:
- Selecting a font and other attributes.
- Cutting and pasting.
- Printing.

Seems like a really simple model. We of course can add complexity but
I think this is the extent of the core functionality.

->>>   Most importantly JOE doesn't intimidate folks with hard to use
->>>   interfaces or massive complexity. Type joe and start typing. Doesn't
->>>   get much simpler than that. 
-
-Yea. No commands like in VI or WordStar just to start typing: just a blank
-screen like WP.
-
->There are a lot of crazies that use vi. I'm one of them! 
->However it's suicide to show it to a novice user.
-
-I use VI way too much, but I use maybe 4 "features": insert, delete, search,
-and save :)
-
->I haven't read your whole post so you may have seen what I was talking about
->in the WYSIWYG section. This is an implmentation detail. Files should be
->saved in such a format. The user would never see it unless they edited with
->a tool that didn't understand the tags (like vi).
-
-Erm. I prefer again WP: special colours to mark italicized text and so on.

Exactly. LWPS would use that exact model. However if the file is saved
as a printable ASCII text file with ASCII tags then it's possible to edit
the file with vi, mail it without running uuencode, posting, etc.

-Much faster, easier to implement than WYSIWYG, and maybe when you have
-something like "print preview", just link a PostScript viewer to the result,
-like ghostscript with svgalib. I'm concentrating on simplicity and
-ease of implementation, I guess, but I also usually prefer that to
-a slow WYSIWYG interface where it takes a while to redraw the line..

We're in sync.

-
->Exactly. The WYSIWYG interface will show some pretty representation of
->attributed text and not the tags. All I was saying is that when files are
->saved it's completely in text. So that you could mail it without encapsulation
->etc. Just like PostScript and TeX/LaTeX it would a be completely printable
->ASCII representation.
-
->Yesterday I had to destroy a Linux installation (like committing suicide!)
->because I couldn't answer the simple question "Show me the Word Processor."
->from a novice (who happened to own the machine).
-
-Ow. :)
-
-I was thinking, maybe Rich text format might be suitable, to save the
-representation as. Not sure.

Maybe. I'm pretty flexible about the actual content, My concern is that
we don't use non printable characters.

-
->Well I'm thinking along the lines that PostScript (with GhostScript) is
->one of the few truely portable and convertible printing formats. Since it's
->so universal we should start with it as the standard. Besides with the
->pbm set of tools we can convert almost any graphics format that exist into
->any other.
-
->Not exactly a clipboard I don't think. Just some kind of tool where a user
->can create graphics without having to run X (where Xpaint can easily do 
->the job). Also we need a way to get all those DOS/Mac clipart kinds of
->graphics into our system.
-
-Right, but I think this should be a seperate program. (I dunno of
-any paint program for SVGALIB.. :(.. but it should be able to
-read in .gif,.jpg, etc as a graphics file and convert?)

Yup. The conversion tools already exist. All we need is some application
where we can draw a pretty picture and save it without having to run X.
Essentially Xpaint using the SVGALIB instead of X.

-
->BTW I just thought of another display mode: VGA graphics in a VC. It'll
->fill the niche of having true WYSIWYG without having to run X. Just build
->an interface right on time of the SVGA libarary.
-
-Yea. You need to differentiate between this and true WYSIWYG! v
->True. That's why I said above that atrributes should be stored as text
->only. So if you wanted to go info vi and edit you can. Our WP would
->show the text in some kind of highlighted format so you can pick out
->attibutes graphically (much like WordP changes the color of attributed
->text in early versions).
-
->For the next sentence I need a name for "our system".
->I Christen this project the Linux Word Processing System!
->(LWPS for short. Pronounced: lips!)
-
-Nah, that'd imply that there are no other word processors. :)
-
->Also unlike WordP where when the last attributed character is deleted the
->attribute sticks around, in LWPS when the last attributed character goes
->away, the attribute is removed also.
-
->>>      text: The most important thing is that the app computes the amount of
->>>            space each character takes and only show an appropriate number
->>>            of character for each line. 
-
->>>   6) Simple Interface for commands: solution is to use the mouse when at
->>>      all possible. 
-
->Exactly. And I'm talking about having that type of interface for anything
->that has a mouse. So our console version will take mouse events and allow
->for selection, cut, paste, and menus. The X version will do the same. For
->terminals we'll have to find a way to emulate the effect (by some combo
->of control keys, arrows, and the like). I use all three (console,X,terminal)
->all the time so being able to edit a document with all three with a rather
->simple interface is important.
-
-Question for Linux programmers: how do you tell where the mouse is?
-Curious, I've never done any mouse programming.

rodents actually send delta info. It's up to the application to keep track of
where things are.

-
->You brought up another cogent point: documentation. For LWPS to work it'll
->need not only on-line docs and man pages, but a full documentation set
->like the LDP has been producing and both a paper and on-line tutorial.
-
-See my point about hypertext links?

Yes I do. However if we go that way then we need a way to do it all
local to the machine.

-
->Popups are a more likely senario for command and attribute selection. The
->pull-ups on the help should probably stay. I like the fact that you can
->have help up and continue to work. Yes it would have to be expanded and
->the mouse should be able to select help topics. But I don't think that
->help should be a popup because usually a user would like to perform some
->action while help is still up.
-
-Maybe popup windows in an X version.

Exactly.

-
->>>      Also arrow and control key commands should be available so that
->>>      terminal users can still work.
-
->ALT is nice but it's not everywhere. Something like CTRL-A would be more
->appropriate because it works on each of the 4 display interfaces we've
->talked about so far (console text,console SVGA,X, and terminal). Since
->ALT is not accessible on all it'll be hard to be consistent.
-
-Yea. Your choices are basically a control-something and a meta (escape)
-something.. Or you could be really obnoxious in VI and beep and
-have a wannabe-menu with just an escape key.

CTRL and ESC are pretty consistent across display platforms. We'd have to
use some combo of these two. It's an essential but not high priority
because this is the interface of last resort.

-
-Oh well. I like the ideas. I'm hungry to get coding! (coincidentally
-I was just about to start hacking on joe a few minutes ago..)

Do I smell a voulenteer? Send me mail and we'll talk some more.

BAJ
-- 
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel - And Using Linux!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

From: bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan)
Subject: Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: 22 May 1994 20:10:07 -0700

Kenneth L Fowler (klfowler@metronet.com) wrote:
: In article <2rkb55$1pq@crl2.crl.com>, Bill Hogan <bhogan@crl.com> wrote:
: >
: >  I very much object to seeing "commercials" on the net!
: >
: >  If anyone is free to post commercial advertisements on the net then
: >everyone is free to post commercial advertisements on the net! 
: >
: >  "The Net" is like a school: people come here to communicate with other 
: >people interested in learning about related things.
: >
: >  We do not give salespeople free access to our classrooms.
: >
: >  Why do we not give salespeople free access to our classrooms?
: >
: >  Should we give salespeople free access our classrooms?
: >
: >  Should we give salespeople free access to our newsgroups?
: >
: >  Think about it.
: >
: >BH    

: We do give salesmen free access to our classrooms.  Have done so for years.
: Forty years ago we were regularly "given" free pencils and rulers which
: just happened to carry advertising.  We were required to cover our
: text books with brown paper wrappers which (guess what) were printed with
: the advertising of local merchants.  Advertising in schools is nothing
: new.  If we had been offered free television/satelite hookups, we would
: have taken them, too. ...

  I did spend the first few years of elementary school in Catholic schools
and I do remember a canvas backdrop festooned with advertisements on the
stage in the basement auditorium in one of these schools, but that is not
what I mean by giving salepeople free (i.e., unfettered) access to all 
our classrooms all the time.

  As I have already said elsewhere, as far as I am concerned, c.o.l.a. 
can announce any products they want to announce any time they want to.

  What I object to is the idea that the internet is a free advertising
medium on which commercial salespeople can "announce" they want to
publicize any time they want to because if one is free to do that then are
free to do that; if all commercial salespeople are free to post
solicitations then before long the internet will be choked with
advertising and the educational potential of the internet will go the way
the educational potential of network television went -- down the toilet. 

  Cheers,
   Bill
-- 
  Bill Hogan
{bhogan@crl.com}

------------------------------

From: adam@adam.yggdrasil.com (Adam J. Richter)
Subject: Re: CD purchase benefits linux project?
Date: 22 May 1994 19:34:44 GMT

In article <HANKEDR.94May22205859@mallard.mail.auburn.edu>,
Darrel Hankerson <hankedr@mail.auburn.edu> wrote:
>
>Do any of the CD purchases directly benefit the linux project (in the
>way that purchase of FSF CDs benefits GNU)?
>
>I've examined the docs, but please flame me in the right direction if
>I've missed something. I've installed a minimal version from diskettes
>some time ago. It appears that folks on c.o.l.m like Yggdrasil.

        I am not aware of any Linux CD distributor that donates
directly to FSF, but here is what Yggdrasil does:

                1. We buy manuals from the Free Software Foundation
                   and resell them.
                2. We give $1 per copy of The Linux Bible the Linux
                   Documentation Project, $2 for direct sales.
                3. We set aside $5 per copy of Motif for the
                   development of a free Motif clone or subset by
                   a team that we are assembling in Protvino, Russia.
                4. We offer authors of free software on our release a
                   free copy, actively advertising this offer to free
                   software authors.
                5. We allow yggdrasil.com to be used for free software
                   mailing lists and various other projects that need
                   an internet node.
                6. We have occassionally provided "stay home from
                   work" money for device driver development that has
                   been integrated into the standard distribution.
                7. We occassionally solicit donations for the Free
                   Software Foundation. 
                8. Of course, we contribute bug fixes and enhancements.

-- 
Adam J. Richter                     -      --------------   "Free software for
Yggdrasil Computing, Inc.             \  /                   the rest of us."
adam@yggdrasil.com                     || g g d r a s i l
4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205    ||  Computing Inc.    (408) 261-6630

------------------------------

From: jdbogan@kimbark.uchicago.edu (     job)
Subject: Re: 3 instnaces of vaporware
Reply-To: jdbogan@midway.uchicago.edu
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 03:07:18 GMT

In article <1994May22.221717.4600@unlv.edu>,
Frank Lofaro <ftlofaro@unlv.edu> wrote:
>What are 3 well known instances of vapor-ware?
>The Hurd, Debian Linux, and WINE!
>
>
>:) :) :)
>
well, it seems then that the wine i've played with doesn't exist.  funny; i've
never used LSD.  
it's out there (wine), just not prominately displayed.
john


-- 
jdbogan@midway.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

From: x93christia1@wmich.edu
Subject: Linux booting root from HD.. Solved.
Date: 22 May 94 23:12:28 EDT

Thanks to all who mailed me and replied about my problem with running Linux
.97, I have since gotten a copy of the root and boot images from the MCC 1.0
distribution of Linux 1.0.4 ... THanks again, there is no more need to send
me mail for now..


------------------------------

From: ftlofaro@unlv.edu (Frank Lofaro)
Subject: Re: 3 instnaces of vaporware
Date: Mon, 23 May 94 03:07:55 GMT

In article <2rotke$l0i@uuneo.neosoft.com> dlogue@news.neosoft.com (Dan Logue) writes:
>Frank Lofaro (ftlofaro@unlv.edu) wrote:
>: What are 3 well known instances of vapor-ware?
>: The Hurd, Debian Linux, and WINE!
>            ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Am I missing something here? I am currently running Debian Linux just fine.
>Is this a private joke... if so it's very well done.
>
>Dan

Please, no flames, it was a joke.
Seriously, I have never seen an announcement, and I just today saw a post 
saying Deboan Linux didn't exist, so ... 



------------------------------

From: edwardb@netcom.com (Edward Baichtal)
Subject: Yggdrasil CDROM for Sale!
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 03:14:06 GMT

If anyone was thinking of purchasing the Summer 1994 CDROM from Yggdrasil,
I'm selling my copy for $35.00.  It comes with a 94 page user manual, and
a 3.5" boot floppy.  I just have no use for it, right after I bought it too.
It does work, and I was able to install Linux from it with no problem at all.

I'd prefer to sell to someone in the bay area who can pick it up from me.
-- 
Edward Baichtal                              "... too jaded to 
edwardb@netcom.com                            question stagnation"

------------------------------

From: jaf@jaflrn.Morse.Net (Jon Freivald)
Subject: Virtual consoles > 12?
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 21:04:42 GMT

I've messed around and played with the number of VC's available.
Everything (so far) works great, except, how do I get to a VC that's
greater than 12?  i.e., currently I'm running 13, and X uses 13 quite
nicely, but if I switch to any other, I can never figure out how to
get back... :(  Any hints?

Jon
-- 
Jon Freivald ( jaf@jaflrn.Morse.Net )
PGP V2 - 22A829/40 DA 9E 8E C0 A1 59 B2  46 3B 73 81 2B 7B 83 1F
Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it.

------------------------------

From: paul@edgewood.portland.or.us (Paul Bingman)
Subject: Pipes don't work in crontab
Date: 23 May 1994 03:37:25 GMT

If I put a line in /usr/spool/cron/crontabs/root that says:

0 2 * * * /var/adm/somejob | /bin/mail root

then /var/adm/somejob will run, and root will get an empty mail, but none 
of the output of /var/adm/somejob will be in the mail.

You can see an example of this on page 186 of O'Reilly's _Essential 
System Administration_, and some wizards I've talked with about this say 
that it works on other kinds of systems.
-- 
paul

------------------------------


** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **

The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:

    Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:

    Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
    nic.funet.fi				pub/OS/Linux
    tsx-11.mit.edu				pub/linux
    sunsite.unc.edu				pub/Linux

End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
