Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #156
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sun, 22 May 94 22:13:08 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #156, Volume #2                Sun, 22 May 94 22:13:08 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Wait'll you see the May 16th PCWEEK... (David Barr)
  Re: patch 3 to linux v1.1 (Robert G. Smith)
  Re: Who are you & what do you do w/ Linux? (Robert Ashcroft)
  Re: 3 instnaces of vaporware (Dan Logue)
  Re: Fortran ? (Bruce Wielinga)
  Re: URGENT: Linux Security Fixes (Martin Olesen)
  Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Russell Nelson)
  Re: InfoMagic CD set - WOW! (Mario Gutierrez)
  Re: Beware: Just Computers (Bill Hogan)
  Re: Linux Journal/Free Software Journal? (Phil Hughes)
  Re: NEC 3xi CDROM cant boot Linux1.0(Yggdrasil 1.1) (Adam J. Richter)
  Re: Wixvax Communications (Richard Shetron)
  Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (David Holland)
  Re: Help selecting good SCSI disk (Thomas M Buccelli)
  Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Bill Hogan)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr)
Subject: Re: Wait'll you see the May 16th PCWEEK...
Date: 22 May 1994 19:54:58 -0400

In article <jrimmer.52.0013E8A7@netcom.com>,
Jason Rimmer <jrimmer@netcom.com> wrote:
>I'm no expert on the GNU license, and I know it's been beaten about here in 
>reference to earlier PCWEEK articles, but what the HECK is going on?

It means that if Novell made any modifcations or additions to any GPL-
licensed code (kernel, utilties, etc), you should be able to contact
Novell and get the diffs.  If Novell wrote any new programs that aren't
based on GPL-licensed code, then they're still property and copyright
of Novell.

--Dave
-- 
"Gopher is the Model T of the Information Superhighway.  It's small,
trusty, underpowered, modified to do things it was never designed to
do, and available in every color of OS, as long as you like text" - me

------------------------------

From: rob@bip.anatomy.upenn.edu (Robert G. Smith)
Subject: Re: patch 3 to linux v1.1
Date: 22 May 1994 23:57:44 GMT

Kaidi Weng (kweng@garnet.acns.fsu.edu) wrote:

: Does anyone have problem with patch3 for linux v1.1?  I tried to patch
: it against v1.1.2, it gave me config.in.rej.  I don't know what to do
: with it.  Then when I try to do "make config", it doesn't know what
: to do with *'s, and quits when it reaches CONFIG SCSI, gave some error
: about if..else.

: ...I want to patch my v1.1.2 up to v1.1.12, may be I'm
: out of luck?  Please help an uneducated linux user.  Thanks in advance.

Start with an unmodified v1.1.0.  Put your patches
in a directory, say "/usr/src/linux1.1_patches".  Then:

   cd /usr/src/linux      (i.e. the directory with your 1.1.0 source)
   zcat /usr/src/linux1.1_patches/patch{?,1?} | patch -p1

That's all there is to it.  You can use "patch -p0" if you
are located in the "/usr/src" directory but this occasionally has given
some people problems.  Patch 12 requires a correction to
allow the "rarp" code to compile and link properly.  This
has been posted to the newsgroups recently.

An alternative is to download v1.1.12 from

   linuxftp.caltech.edu:pub/Linux/patched-kernels
 
A little easier but maybe not as satisfying.   

Rob Smith

------------------------------

From: rna@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ashcroft)
Subject: Re: Who are you & what do you do w/ Linux?
Date: 23 May 1994 00:30:28 GMT

In article <Cq7IBz.8Ds@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>,
william.c.brown <corey@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> wrote:
>> I know there is some interest at the GSB to use Linux boxes as mail
>> servers.  Right now they have a Sparc IPX (or maybe a Sparc 2, I'm not
>> sure) handling all the MBA mail, of which there is tons.  All the benchmarks
>> I have been able to run show 486DX2/66 clearly superior to Sparc 2 and
>> IPX on integer problems, so I suspect that a 486 would do this job as
>> well if not better (I'd be interested to hear what people say about this).
>
>       While I'll agree that a 486/66 or 586/[60,66] will out perform
>       a Sparc II in some tests, but the Sparc still walks away from
>       Intel in terms of floating point performance.

Yes, but not all that much better, considering difference in price, etc.
Check out the benchmarks in /pub/aburto on ftp.nosc.mil.
There are a few Pentium results there too, and they are very respectable
vs Sparc II.  Wait till they have compilers optimized for Pentiums running
at 100MHz and greater.

And, getting slightly further off the subject, Sparcs are well below
Dec Alphas and HP PA-RISC machines.  Finally, the latest IBM PowerPC
workstation (Powerstation 250) also blows away the Sparc family from
what I've read.  And the Decs and the HPs and the IBMs don't cost all
that much more.  I'd be interested, in fact, to know how the
Apple PowerPC 8100 would do on some of those benchmarks running on
some compilers optimized for the chip.

RNA

------------------------------

From: dlogue@news.neosoft.com (Dan Logue)
Subject: Re: 3 instnaces of vaporware
Date: 23 May 1994 00:33:18 GMT

Frank Lofaro (ftlofaro@unlv.edu) wrote:
: What are 3 well known instances of vapor-ware?
: The Hurd, Debian Linux, and WINE!
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Am I missing something here? I am currently running Debian Linux just fine.
Is this a private joke... if so it's very well done.

Dan

------------------------------

From: wielinga@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au (Bruce Wielinga)
Subject: Re: Fortran ?
Date: 23 May 1994 00:46:21 GMT

dave duling (duling@hippo.niehs.nih.gov) wrote:
> Is there an F77 compiler for Linux ?
Yes, there is (Although Paul would argue with me). Look at sunsite in 
devel/fortran at libf2c-0.9.2.tar.gz. It contains a program to convert
fortran 77 to c and a script called f77 which converts fortran 77 to
object code and works like a fortran compiler.
--

Bruce Wielinga
wielinga@physics.uq.oz.au
Ya! Useless Material objects for me! 


------------------------------

From: olesen@math.uiowa.edu (Martin Olesen)
Subject: Re: URGENT: Linux Security Fixes
Date: 22 May 1994 07:35:22 GMT


In article <2rmpvl$8qs@news.u.washington.edu>, olsenc@maxwell.ee.washington.edu (Clint Olsen) writes:
|> In article <Cq69q5.J4q@pe1chl.ampr.org>, Rob Janssen <pe1chl@rabo.nl> wrote:
|> >In <1994May20.231021.12439@gdsnl.gds.nl> jeroen@gdsnl.gds.nl (Jeroen van Gennip) writes:
|> What are you, some sort of fucking textbook author?  Share your
|> knowledge with the rest of the community or be roasted!
|> 
|> I know the answer to the meaning of life, but I'll leave it as an
|> exercise for you.  It's EASY.
|> 
|> -Clint

 Well it's 42. I thought everybody knew that :-)

   Martin Olesen
   olesen@math.uiowa.edu


------------------------------

From: nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Subject: Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: 23 May 1994 00:38:43 GMT

In article <1994May22.204329.6360@cs.cornell.edu> mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh) writes:

   If large companies such as Novell begin to depend upon the efforts of
   volunteer programmers to produce a commercial operating system, they
   have two choices: a) Put pressure on us to develop what they need; or b)
   To take development into their own hands and obsolesce the work that we
   have done. 

OR to pay you to develop what they need.

   The point is that developing free software does _not_ mean being poor.
   If you'd bother to observe some real-life examples of free software's
   success in the marketplace I think you'd realize that.

Big, broad grin from *this* quarter.

--
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>      ftp.msen.com:pub/vendor/crynwr/crynwr.wav
Crynwr Software   | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St.      | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX)    | Quakers do it in the light
Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.

------------------------------

From: masc1266@saturn.sdsu.edu (Mario Gutierrez)
Subject: Re: InfoMagic CD set - WOW!
Date: 21 May 1994 04:33:12 GMT

Heinz Wolter (heinz@focus-systems.on.ca) wrote:
: In article <1994May14.040731.274@bhami.wimsey.com> bhenning@bhami.wimsey.com (William Henning) writes:
: >I am extremely pleased with their service too. I ordered the CD's on Monday,
: >and received them on Thursday or Friday (I did not check my mail Thursday).
: >I have not tried the CD's yet, but they sound very good...
: >
: The CD is wonderfull. For any Torontians (or close by), the University of
: Toronto Bookstore sells the April 2-disk set for $CAN27.95. The CD contains
: many distibutions of which I installed (actually upgraded) the Slackware 
: trouble free. UT bookstore also sells Linux Journal! (so I picked up
: four copies of Vol 1 - anybody looking for a historical item ? I have 
: 3 immaculate copies still in the plastic wrap...The Infomagic is best bang
: for buck I've seen yet. The only drawback is that there is no "live" image
: to mount and run off, but the sunsite ans tsx dumps more than make up for it.
: I think TransAmer and others offer live mountable images but who wants a 300k/s
: disk ? -heinz


------------------------------

From: bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan)
Subject: Re: Beware: Just Computers
Date: 22 May 1994 18:09:52 -0700

Chang-Hsun Jon Huang (ch5372@eehpx3) wrote:
: Please don't buy any linux products from Just Computers.
: Mark Brownsen is a nasty person. Decide for yourself.
: Here is what he wrote: ...

 Chang-Hsun,

 From the undeniable fact that the jerk who wrote the material you posted
is a nasty person it does not follow that I should not buy any Linux
products from Just Computers! 

 The material you posted does not suggest to me that its author intended
to represent himself to be an employee of said company, which leaves the
apparent address-of-origin in the header on the material you posted as the
only connection between said company and the views expressed in the
material you posted. 

 I do not know anything about the mechanics and logistics that govern the
movement of material over the net, but I know enough about computers to
have little doubt that almost anything can be made to appear to come from
almost anywhere -- and no doubt at all about the existence of people who
get their kicks by figuring out ways of doing that sort of thing. 

 But if the essence of prejudice -- pre-judice, to judge in advance -- is
a tendency to jump to conclusions, then I think we all need to take
special care not to be led into the same error by our eagerness to appear
to be opposed to it. 

 Respectfully,
  Bill

-- 
  Bill Hogan
{bhogan@crl.com}

------------------------------

From: fyl@eskimo.com (Phil Hughes)
Subject: Re: Linux Journal/Free Software Journal?
Date: 22 May 94 14:30:13 GMT

Robert Ashcroft (rna@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: I got my first issue of Linux Journal today, issue 2.  Quite nice, though
: I am looking forward to seeing how it changes in issue 3.

: One thing I wonder is whether a more broadly based journal might make
: more sense.  Call it the Free Software Journal, or the Free Unix Journal
: or something.  I'd be interested in reading more than just about Linux,
: though that is definitely the focus of my interest.  I'd appreciate
: hearing about the latest in BSD, GNU, and so forth.

: Is there already a publication that caters to such an audience?

: How do other people feel about this?

When we (myself and a few friends in Seattle) were first talking about
starting a magazine it was to be a Free Software Journal.  When we got up
to about 6 people with regular meetings on the idea we quickly realized
that "free" was somewhat arbitrary.  If the magazine was to support the
needs of computer users it really needed to be "best value journal" or
something along those lines.  A non-free (either in the
monetary or redistribution sense) program might be a better answer.
For example, there is a package called the $25 network from Imodes that
offers DOS PC-PC connectivity for $25.  It doesn't get any press because
it doesn't cost enough.

We realized that to do a magazine that would be unbiased it would need to
be like the Consumer Reports of software.  That would mean no advertising.
Also, the potential market is huge making the startup cost huge as well.
And it would be hard to finance because it could only depend on magazine
sales for income.

I proposed the Linux Journal idea to the group because it seemed to make
sense to me.  I expected everyone to tell me I was crazy.  Instead,
everyone saw it as a really good alternative.

While I understand the ideas behind a more general magazine from
a reader's point of view, there is one other really important reason for
magazines such as Linux Journal to exist and keep their focus.  That is
for advertising.  The Linux community is relatively small (compared to the
computer market).  Advertising rates in focused publications can be much
lower per qualified reader than for the general magazines.  For example,
you could run an ad for your Linux-based product in Byte magazine but your
ad gets lost among all the others and most Byte readers are not interested
in Linux.  This is a benefit to both the advertiser and the reader of the
magazine.

This concept is not unique to Linux Journal or even computer magazines.
Today you see lots of small publications with 2000-50,000 circulation
addressing a very select group of people.  In Seattle we have everything
from a kayaking magazine to a coffee magazine (both of which are printed
by the same company as the new printer we have selected for Linux Journal.
:-) )

As we expand (meaning getting more advertising so we can afford to print
more pages -- we are currently at 48 pages/issue) we will probably add a
column that tells of major events in free software but don't expect us to
cover non-Linux software in any depth.  If the need is really there
someone (possibly us) will start another magazine.

For those interested in a status report on Linux Journal #3, it is
currently in the final stages of layout, will go to the printer in one
week.  It will be mailed starting on June 14.  If you get your subscriptiion
order to SSC (206-527-3385 or fax to 206-527-2806) by June 10 your
subscription will start with this issue.

This is the last of our 2-month issues that we did to get our schedule
caught up.  In the future, expect each issue to be mailed around the
middle of the month prior to the cover date.

For those who need more info on Linux Journal, you can e-mail
linux@fylz.com.
--
Phil Hughes -- really phil@fylz.com, publisher of Linux Journal

------------------------------

From: adam@adam.yggdrasil.com (Adam J. Richter)
Subject: Re: NEC 3xi CDROM cant boot Linux1.0(Yggdrasil 1.1)
Date: 21 May 1994 17:59:48 GMT

In article <2rlhun$5k@yggdrasil.com>,
Adam J. Richter <adam@adam.yggdrasil.com> wrote:
In article <1994May20.144513.3299@eisner>,
Saul J. Rosenberg <rosenberg@eisner.decus.org> wrote:
>Problem:
>    Unable to boot Linux 1.0 from NEC 3Xi triple speed CDROM
[...]
>Notes:
>    The backpage of the Yggdrasil booklet does not list the NEC drive.
>    The Adaptec 1510 SCSI controller is listed as experimental.

        The 151x/152x is still listed as "experimental" because it
failed to work on at least one of the CDROM drives that we tested it
on.

        There isn't much that I can do for you directly, but it may be
helpful for you and others in choosing a *supported* scsi controller
to see the results of our SCSI controller testing with the Summer 1994
boot floppy:

=======================================================================
        Boot test: Using the Yggdrasil Plug-and-Play Linux Summer 1994
boot diskette, boot an aluminum-plastic Yggdrasil LGX Fall 1993 CD.
The test machine was an 8MB Cyrix/TI 486slc (33MHz?).

        "PASS" in all capital letters indicates a configuration that
did not work with the base Linux 1.1.0 kernel, but works on ours
due to some modification noted at the bottom of the chart.  "Fail"
cases also failed with the base 1.1.0 kernel.


                                     CDROM DRIVE
                        NEC-cdr84dj     Texel dm3024    Texel dm3021
SUPPORTED

Ultrastor 14F           PASS[1]         PASS[1]         PASS[1]
Future Domain TMC850    pass            pass            pass
        (with bios)
Future Domain 1680      pass            pass            pass
Adaptec 1542B           pass            pass            pass
Adaptec 1542CF          pass            pass            pass
Bustek                  pass            pass            pass


EXPERIMENTAL

Trantor T128[2]         pass            pass            pass
Adaptec aha1522         PASS[3]         PASS[3]         fail
ProAudioSpectrum16      fail[4]         fail[4]         fail[4]
ProAudioStudio16        fail[4]         fail[4]         fail[4]
Seagate ST02            fail            fail            fail
Always in2000           fail            fail            fail


[1] As in previous Yggdrasil releases, the order in which SCSI the
    presence of SCSI controllers is checked has been modified so that
    the presence of an Ultrastor controller is check for first.  If an
    Adaptec or Future Domain 16xx is check for first, as is the case in
    all other Linux distributions (in spite of my postings and emails
    about this), the Ultrastor controllers will not be detected.

[2] The Trantor T128 will probably be listed as "supported" in the next
    release, but I want a little more data first.

[3] The timeouts in the Adaptec 152x had to be extended by a factor of
    6 to make it work with the NEC cdr84dj.  The Texel dm3024 only
    passed after a ROM upgrade.  Perhaps such a ROM upgrade might be
    available for the older Texel dm3021.  I sent the diffs to Juergen
    Fischer, and I expect the change to find its way into the standard
    linux kernel distribution.

[4] The MediaVision cards sometimes work and sometimes don't.  You can
    get different results by repeating tests with the same hardware.
-- 
Adam J. Richter                     -      --------------   "Free software for
Yggdrasil Computing, Inc.             \  /                   the rest of us."
adam@yggdrasil.com                     || g g d r a s i l
4880 Stevens Creek Blvd., Suite 205    ||  Computing Inc.    (408) 261-6630

------------------------------

From: multics@hermes.acm.rpi.edu (Richard Shetron)
Subject: Re: Wixvax Communications
Date: 23 May 1994 01:34:36 GMT

In article <2ra37b$39i@finzi.ccinet.ab.ca>,
Kevin B. Fluet <kevin@valis.ampr.ab.ca> wrote:
>Richard Shetron <multics@hermes.acm.rpi.edu> writes:
>
>>[This may not be Linux-specific, but Linux is an ideal OS for getting the
>> most out of multiport serial boards. --mdw]
>
>Hmm, I don't know about this one...
>
>>902   BB2016 6ft 10 conductor Modem cable (male only).
>>      signals: DCD, DTR, CTS, SG, RxD, TxD, FG, RTS, DSR, and RI
>>      These have a 10 pin plug at each end.                   $10.50
>
>I just recently payed $18 CANADIAN (roughly $14 US) for a box of TWO cables
>and TWO 25-pin adapters from BOCA themselves at a local computer shop. 
>Product codes are BOCA IODTE2 (terminal) and IODCE2 (modem).

That's a better price then I've been able to find from any distributor I've
contacted so far.  I'd like to know who their supplier is.  The only thing
I've found so far is the suggested list from Boca is $25/box.


------------------------------

Subject: Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
From: dholland@husc7.harvard.edu (David Holland)
Date: 22 May 94 21:27:05

lilo@slip-13-3's message of 21 May 1994 05:50:48 GMT said:

 > > ;-) or not, this is exactly the sort of comment, and attitude, that is
 > > keeping the major software companies from supporting Linux.
 > 
 > I think that's an exaggeration.  It's silly to think that "non-free" editors
 > have no place in Linux.  But it's equally silly to think that the "major
 > software companies" are being "kept from supporting Linux."  Novell, for
 > example, seems very interested in Linux.  And they're free to use it.

Yes, I know it's an exaggeration. On the other hand, many people who
ARE selling commercial software won't consider a Linux version
specifically because they believe Linux users will steal it instead of
paying. Why is this? Because of this obsession with "free" software.
They equate GNU and the GPL with piracy, and they see the Linux
community as a hotbed of it.

It's a stupid attitude, but it's not a problem that will go away
readily. 

 > Okay, you're annoyed that Linux users seem to have a somewhat veering
 > attitude regarding user-friendliness.  

Only partly.

 > ("Me heap macho stud hacker.  Me not need function keys.  Me not
 > need simplicity when me have EMACS!" :)

Nope, not at all... :-)

 > But that's no reason to disregard things like the latest ALPHA dos
 > emulator, [...]

True - but emulators aren't the answer. The answer is native-mode
applications. Pagemaker. Photoshop. Quattro. Even MS-Word, though as
far as I'm concerned Emacs is good enough for that. Heck, even a
decent communications program on the level of Telix would be nice.

 > > Until such time as they do, Linux will remain a marginal hacker's OS
 > > the rest of the world views with a mixture of suspicion and fear.
 > 
 > Suspicion?  Possibly.  Fear?  Can you say "exaggeration?"  :)  Marginal
 > hacker's OS?  Can you say "argumentative phrasing?"  I knew you could.... ;)

Yup... :-)

--
   - David A. Holland          | "The right to be heard does not automatically
     dholland@husc.harvard.edu |  include the right to be taken seriously."

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.arch.storage,comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
From: tmb@idm.com (Thomas M Buccelli)
Subject: Re: Help selecting good SCSI disk
Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 01:13:52 GMT

Jim Sanchez (jsanchez@chinook.halcyon.com) wrote:
> Another drive you might want to consider is the Micropolis 4110 which is
> a 1" version of the 2110.  It is faster (8.5 ms) and less expensive.  I
> bought one for my system and love it.
> --
> Jim Sanchez
> Communications Specialists, Inc. - Redmond, WA
> jsanchez@halcyon.com (206)836-0105(H) (206)885-3100(W)

I second this. Also, the 4110 has a larger cache (512k).

Tom
--

Thomas M. Buccelli (tmb@idm.com)

#include <std_disclaimer.h>

------------------------------

From: bhogan@crl.com (Bill Hogan)
Subject: Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: 22 May 1994 19:01:31 -0700

  I don't think the issue is "free" software versus software that costs
money. 

  For one thing, measured in terms of the amount of _effort_ it takes to
run something like Linux (and what is money but a certified measure of
effort), there is nothing "free" about "free" software! 

  I think the *real* issue is the GPL.

  IOW, the reason I chose Linux over (say) Solaris x86 is that Linux wants
me to have the whole, entire, source code to the whole, entire system. 

  How can I learn anything about how a kernel works if I can't see the 
source code *and* modify it experimentally if I want to?

  That, IMO, is the rub.

  What we have seen in the past 10 years is the emergence of a huge 
number of programmers who *assume* that it makes sense to sell program 
_functionality_ while attempting to keep the _program_ secret.

  I happen to believe that this is counter-productive because I believe --
and I think Linux proves -- it is profoundly counter-educational, leading
to and depending upon a division of society into those who have access to
"the source codes" and those who have to make do with "help files". 

  Linux proves that people do not necessarily destroy their 
hardware the moment they get their hands on the source code to the 
operating system they are running!

  I suspect that the general reluctance to face up to the cultural and 
economic implications of this fact has more to do with our inability to 
_imagine_ how it would be possible to "do business" on such a basis than 
it has to do with technical issues.

  I am willing to pay money for Linux; I am not willing to pay money for
the privilege of using software that someone else writes but won't let me
read and experiment with if I choose. 

  As far as I am concerned, it is up to c.o.l.a. to announce anything 
they feel like announcing, but I do not think commercial software 
developers have any more _right_ to be announced in c.o.l.a. than they 
have to be announced in PC Week.

  Bill  
-- 
  Bill Hogan
{bhogan@crl.com}

------------------------------


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