Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #154
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sun, 22 May 94 17:16:18 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #154, Volume #2                Sun, 22 May 94 17:16:18 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (Michael K. Johnson)
  WorkMan (audio CD player) 1.2.2a is available (Steven Grimm)
  Re: SUMMARY: Database needed (C. S. Hendrix)
  patch 3 to linux v1.1 (Kaidi Weng)
  Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Maxim Spivak)
  Re: Beware: Just Computers (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
  Re: Linux becomes a real operating system - official recognition (Leon Garde)
  Re: Who are you & what do you do w/ Linux? (Brad Hull)
  Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Matt Welsh)
  Re: Looking for Linux BBS Software (Fitos Imre)
  Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Matt Welsh)
  Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Matt Welsh)
  Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Matt Welsh)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: johnsonm@merengue.oit.unc.edu (Michael K. Johnson)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: 22 May 1994 18:41:29 GMT


dominic@pepper.cuug.ab.ca (Dominic Fraser) writes:
   I don't understand. Have none of you used the AndrewToolKit 'ez' 
   wordprocessor?. I have used it for 5 months now with great success, my 
   wife likes, it, I like it, my daughter uses it everyday. It produces 
   exactly what I expect in a decent wysiwig Wp package and outputs in 
   postscript, how much more could I ask?

I use it.  It's not perfect, but it *is* pretty good.  I use it for
all my simple word-processing tasks.  I wouldn't use it to produce a
book, but it isn't designed for that, either.  It *does* include
spell-checking, built-in simple spreadsheets, graphics, and lots of
nifty stuff.  Footnotes, headers footers, stuff like that.  I think
that they only things that it is missing that *I* consider basic
functionality are automatic bulletted and numbered lists, but such
lists can be done by hand without a lot of trouble.

I use it all the time because it can be used to create RTF format
which I use for document interchange with several other programs all
the time.

However, if you do try it, please be warned: don't try it for 5
minutes and give it up because it feels non-intuitive.  It is *not* a
word-for-windows (or whatever) clone, and does not feel like one.  It
took me a few hours to get used to producing significantly complex
documents with it.  I gave up too early the last time I tried to use
it, and ended up missing a great working environment.  Take enough
time to grasp the slightly different paradigm, and you will be glad
you did.

Terry Gliedt has put together a very good package; see
sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/X11/andrew/auis62L?-wp.tgz, which includes
a subset of the AUIS (Andrew User Interface System) which is useful as
a word processor.  He is writing a series of articles for Linux
Journal which introduce users to AUIS, including ez.

michaelkjohnson

------------------------------

From: koreth@spud.Hyperion.COM (Steven Grimm)
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.apps,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.os.386bsd.apps,comp.sys.hp,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.sys5.r4,comp.sys.dec,alt.cd-rom
Subject: WorkMan (audio CD player) 1.2.2a is available
Date: 22 May 1994 11:08:33 -0700

This is to announce the release of WorkMan version 1.2.2a.  WorkMan is an
X application for playing audio CDs on CD-ROM drives.  It runs on several
platforms, namely:

        BSD/386
        FreeBSD
        HPUX (9.0 or higher)
        Linux
        OSF/1 (*)
        Solaris 2.x
        Sony NEWS
        SunOS 4.x
        ULTRIX 4.2

(*) The OSF/1 support is still under development.

WorkMan requires the XView toolkit, version 3.0 or higher.  You can pick up
the source, as well as binaries for HPUX (PA-RISC) and ULTRIX, from the
official distribution site, ftp.hyperion.com.  If you don't have Internet
access, send the following message to ftpmail@hyperion.com:

cd /WorkMan
get WorkMan-1.2.2a.tar.Z

and the source will be mailed to you.

Version 1.2.2a adds support for FreeBSD and OSF/1 and fixes a few bugs.

-Steve

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: shendrix@escape.widomaker.com (C. S. Hendrix)
Subject: Re: SUMMARY: Database needed
Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 17:01:02 GMT

Jorge Gustavo Rocha (jgr@di.uminho.pt) wrote:
: Hi,

: Here is the SUMMARY about the existing databases running on Linux.

: All (except INFORMIX, of $$$ course) are at  
: sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/apps/databases

: 1) Metalbase

: 2) Postgres

: 3) ingres

: 4) INFORMIX
: Note: Linux supports in some degree executables from other Unixes running
: in intel family. This is supported by the ibcs package founded at the usual
: places. With ibcs, it is possible to run the INFORMIX distribution for SCO
: on top of Linux! To obtain INFORMIX you have to ....

You can add to that list /rdb 6.2 for Linux from Revolutionary Software.
I'm BETA testing it and it's ready.  I believe RSW wants to sell it for
around $150.

-- 
csh
===========================================================================
shendrix@escape.widomaker.com (UUCP)     | Amd486/40 Linux system
shendrix@pcs.cnu.edu (Internet)          | Christopher Newport University

------------------------------

From: kweng@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Kaidi Weng)
Subject: patch 3 to linux v1.1
Date: 22 May 1994 19:33:59 GMT


Does anyone have problem with patch3 for linux v1.1?  I tried to patch
it against v1.1.2, it gave me config.in.rej.  I don't know what to do
with it.  Then when I try to do "make config", it doesn't know what
to do with *'s, and quits when it reaches CONFIG SCSI, gave some error
about if..else.

...I want to patch my v1.1.2 up to v1.1.12, may be I'm
out of luck?  Please help an uneducated linux user.  Thanks in advance.

--kaidi
--
============================================================================
Kaidi Weng(~{NL?-5X~})              email: kaidi@gfdi.fsu.edu
1972 Shadyoaks Dr.                  flame: /dev/null
Tallahassee, FL 32303               GO NOLES!  >>>>>--->  National Champs!
============================================================================
Just when you see the light at the end of the tunnel, the roof caves in. 
                          -- Forsyth's Second Corollary to Murphy's Laws
============================================================================


------------------------------

From: maxims@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Maxim Spivak)
Subject: Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: 22 May 1994 19:52:36 GMT

In article <2rnm0d$d89@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
lilo (SpRiNg 94 GpA 3.64) <lilo@slip-1-57> wrote:
[snip]
>I have.  I would hate to see announcements of commercial software products
>for Linux (or closely-related systems) off-topic in, say, c.o.l.a. ;)
>
>
>lilo

_YOU_ would hate to see announcements of commercial s/w on c.o.l.a., but 
I'd love to  see them. Where else would I find out about new products, in a 
full page ad in "Unix Review?" 

Linux is reaching the critical mass when it's beginning to get recognized 
by commercial software vendors. The c.o.l.* newsgroups is the _only_ (to 
my understanding) Linux forum, doesn't it make sense to announce products 
here, be they free or commercial.  (Flamers: I'm referring to Linux 
products in the Linux newsgroups; I'm not advocating general 
advertisement on the net: I don't particularly want to get ads for soap 
or cars when I'm reading a Linux newsgroup.)

If software vendors will create s/w for Linux they must advertise or at 
least announce their products. c.o.l.a. seems like a fine place to me.

Max


-- 
**************************************************************************
Maxim Spivak                            |  #include <GoBears.h>
University of California, Berkeley      |  #include <StdDisclaimer.h>
maxims@ucsee.berkeley.edu               |  #include ".signature"

------------------------------

From: dlj0@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
Subject: Re: Beware: Just Computers
Date: 22 May 1994 14:51:49 -0400

In article <2rmopr$jid@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, ch5372@eehpx3 (Chang-Hsun Jon Huang) writes:
>Please don't buy any linux products from Just Computers.
>Mark Brownsen is a nasty person. Decide for yourself.
>Here is what he wrote:

I hope, and suspect, that either this post or the mailing that prompted it
was a fake.  Perhaps someone managed to get their e-mail to appear to be
from them.  Could we have some coomment from that company before we decide
to boycott them?  

Certainly, if such a hateful message is real, I would not deal with them.


David L. Johnson                             ID:  dlj0@lehigh.edu
Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015       Telephone: 610-758-3759 (office)
                                                        610-828-3708 (home)
MS-DOS: Just say No!

------------------------------

From: lgarde@scorch.hna.com.au (Leon Garde)
Subject: Re: Linux becomes a real operating system - official recognition
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 15:53:53 GMT

jonb@specialix.com (Jon Brawn) writes:

>Well, I just got a package from Uniforum inviting me to become a member
>(again), and normally I would toss this straight in the recycling bin,
>but for some reason I flipped through the glossy application form, and
>found the obligatory tick-the-boxes section asking how many millions of
>dollars I am empowered to spend each year.

>There are the obligatory sections such as ``My organization's primary
>business'', ``My Job Function'', and the interesting one ``Operating
>Systems Used''. Number twelve on the list? LINUX (all capital letters!)

>So, there you have it, official recognition from Uniforum (now, don't
>we all feel *much* better for that?).
do we ? what is 'LINUX' ?


>--
>More information about Uniforum membership can be obtained from Uniforum,
>2901 Tasman Drv, Suite 205, Santa Clara, CA 95054-1100 USA.
>Tel. (408)986 8840. I have no involvement with Uniforum other than they
>keep offering me membership. All opions self-owned.

leon, Linux user.
-- 
leon garde; lgarde@scorch.hna.com.au

------------------------------

From: bhull@renoir.cftnet.com (Brad Hull)
Subject: Re: Who are you & what do you do w/ Linux?
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 19:53:27 GMT

I bet this is the story you saw 10,000 times:

Had a professional acquaintance mention Linux to me.  Was impressed at the
idea; installed it on my system; was massively more impressed; gave same
general kind of recommendation to dozens of friends, plus copies to many of
the same.  Am now comfortable in a cheerful local community full of Linux
enthusiasts that continues to grow by leaps and bounds.

Only here, we have a very big advantage:  Derrick Glidden, who runs a very
nice BBS supporting Linux in this (Tampa, FL, USA) area. (813)975-2603 is its
number for those interested.

Many people want and use Linux that do not have internet access.  There is no
doubt that much of Linux's popularity around here is among people who may not
have internet access for years to come.  If you find it in your heart (and
wallet) to put up a bulletin board with FIDO or just to support Linux on it,
you can do a lot to speed Linux in its eventual takeover of the desktop ;->

------------------------------

From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 20:31:16 GMT

In article <2rh2fi$2g5@pandora.sdsu.edu> garrett@athena.sdsu.edu (Garrett D'Amore) writes:
>This is not necessarily true.  I think that we must realize that individuals
>generally have a certain set of tasks they expect to accomplish with their
>computer.  If free software is available, then they are happy to use it, if
>it meets their needs.  If, however, the free software doesn't do as good
>a job as some commercial app, then the user is likely to use the commercial
>app.

That's the difference between being a computer "user" or "consumer" or
someone who is willing to develop software to suit their needs.
If all you need is software that works for you, go get Windows. Just 
don't complain that Linux doesn't support what you need, because Linux's
users are responsible for the features that it supports.

>Also if free software can't compete in a given area with commercial software,
>then I'm likely to use a commercial product.  

So be it. 


------------------------------

From: Fitos.Imre@esbbs.cg57.esnet.com (Fitos Imre)
Subject: Re: Looking for Linux BBS Software
Date: 22 May 1994 09:54:21 -0700
Reply-To: Fitos.Imre@esbbs.cg57.esnet.com (Fitos Imre)

root@bbs.dsnet.com (System Administrator) writes:

> root (root@jaxnet.jaxnet.com) wrote:
> : I am looking for some good bbs software that will run under Linux.  Some
> : of the key things that I am looking for are:
> 
> : 1)  Written and Supported inside the United States!
> : 2)  Source code must be provided (I love to customize)
> : 3)  Must be able to support subscription based service
> : 4)  Must be able to optionally enforce daily time limits
> : 5)  Must track users usage (number of minutes connected in a log or somethi
ng)
> : 6)  Must be able to run external programs and shell accounts
> : 7)  Must be able to allow guest logins
> : 8)  Each user must have their own login ID (no generic logins like 'bbs')
> 
> : Some things that would be nice but are not mandatory.
> 
> : 1)  RIP graphics
> : 2)  ANSI graphics
> 
> No such animal.
> 
I know of a sw called TERA what might accomplish this.
A guy on dorsai (ddorsai.dorsai.com) has written it, it has RIP, ANSI and
many other things. there are versions for Unixware , SCO (?) and linux.
AFAIR there was a demo of it on dorsai.

btv

------------------------------

From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 20:43:29 GMT

In article <1994May20.050457.9598@emc.rvt.com> remco@emc.rvt.com writes:
>Matt, I am (still) getting payed for writing software, and not bad, to
>be honest. As long as I am willing to take money for my work product
>(software), I can not blame whoever came up with the money, if they
>turn around and resell it. They made an investment and want to see
>a return on it. I do NOT see any difference between software and 
>music in this respect. Somebody gets paid for creating it, somebody
>else then copies it and sells it en masse. The creator gets paid once,
>or gets royalties.

Ever heard of IUMA? (Internet Underground Music Archive?) The idea behind
IUMA is that people write songs, send in a tape, and someone digitizes the
song and makes it available via FTP and WWW, for free.

Why is this important? Why is it _necessary_? Because music companies
control what gets distributed. The market is flooded with music that has
been screened, mangled, and manipulated to appeal to a large market. We're
only able to hear music that might have a large enough return in the 
commefcial sector to warrant its distribution. We can only hear music that
has been certified by the record companies to be appealing to a large number
of people. How does that make you feel? 

The same holds true for software. Although software isn't so much a form of
expression, the large corporations control what software is out there. 
MS-Windows and MS-DOS are quite popular because they can accomodate the
masses of computer users who don't want to learn much about the underlying
system. The 10% of the personal computer user population that has the
interest and ability to use an OS with more power---e.g., Linux---is duped.
Once you give up your ability---your RIGHT---to develop and support free
software, you've fallen prey to the corporations who are going to market
only software that can appeal to the masses.

Linux doesn't appeal to the masses, and I don't see why it should. There
are plenty of operating systems out there. Windows is much more suited to
J. Random User, because you take it out of the box, follow some simple
step-by-step instructions, and it works for you. Why should Linux even
attempt to debunk MS-Windows? All that we should care about is retaining
the right to develop and support Linux without a lot of marketing pressure.

If large companies such as Novell begin to depend upon the efforts of
volunteer programmers to produce a commercial operating system, they
have two choices: a) Put pressure on us to develop what they need; or b)
To take development into their own hands and obsolesce the work that we
have done. 

>If this goes against your ethics: tough luck! If I have to choose between
>your ethics and mine beeing able to bring bread on the table, then screw
>the ethics. 

This is a clear-cut example of the brain damage caused by modern 
economic theory. I'm afraid that I can't help you with that.
(Please insert a smiley here, if you think that it is appropriate.) 

The point is that developing free software does _not_ mean being poor.
If you'd bother to observe some real-life examples of free software's
success in the marketplace I think you'd realize that.

Some of us realize that money isn't real; software is.

mdw

------------------------------

From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 20:51:46 GMT

In article <brett.769471287@iitbarr.iit.com> brett@iit.com (Brett Coon) writes:
>I think that's just the ethic behind _GNU_ free software.  

Perhaps I should qualify my statements: When I say "free software", 
I mean free software as distributed under the GPL, and specifically
software developed by the FSF.

>>Once you allow a commerical
>>software product to satisfy your basic computing needs, you've lost the
>>ability to improve it or modify it to suit your needs.
>
>If it suits your needs, why modify it?  If it aint broke, don't
>fix it.  

For one thing, software companies love to misle us into these things
called "upgrades". Upgrades are a wondeful ploy to make your software
obsolete, so you can spend another $100 to get the new version.
MS-Windows 2.0 suited the needs of many, many people, yet nearly everyone
moved to 3.0 and then 3.1. Why? 

>No it doesn't.  There will always be plenty of motivation for making
>free software.  For most of us, time is money.  When you buy commercial
>software, you're exchanging your money for someone else's time.  

This doesn't preclude free software at all. Free software can and _should_
be bought. Doing so supports the programmers and distributors of the
software. That's no argument against free software; in fact, its an argument
for it.

>Which they should only do if it serves a purpose.  If you believe free
>software is "right" and commercial software is "wrong", then I suppose
>making more free software always serves a purpose.  

It serves a purpose as long as software is developed that can be shared.
It's not so much an argument between "right" and "wrong", but that,
technically, free software is better because many people have the ability
to develop and contribute to it. Unfortunately the current software market
doesn't take that attitude, so the only people who have been able to 
work within that structure are volunteers such as the Linux developers and
GNU folks. 

mdw

------------------------------

From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 20:54:25 GMT

In article <1994May21.171456.20125@aristo.tau.ac.il> sariel@libra.math.tau.ac.il (Har-Peled Sariel) writes:
>Bill Hogan (bhogan@crl.com) wrote:
>
>:   I very much object to seeing "commercials" on the net!
>
>     I fail to see the problem. 

As do I. I have a strict policy for commercial postings to c.o.l.announce,
which is that commercial announcements must be accompanied by an entry
in the Distribution-HOWTO, and that commercial announcements will _not_
be reposted unless the information contained therein has changed considerably.

Be glad that you can get these kinds of announcements on c.o.l.a. 

------------------------------


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