Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #153
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sun, 22 May 94 14:13:13 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #153, Volume #2                Sun, 22 May 94 14:13:13 EDT

Contents:
  Re: URGENT: Linux Security Fixes (Jeroen van Gennip)
  Re: Beware: Just Computers (Randy Just)
  Re: InfoMagic CD set - WOW! (Devin Wayne Dean)
  Shutp up (Ron Smits)
  Re: Beware: Just Computers (Randy Just)
  Re: PCI or VL bus SCSI Host Adapters (Bao Chau Ha)
  Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Kenneth L Fowler)
  Re: Question on Linux Mosaic (Mark P. Nelson)
  Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Brett Coon)
  Re: linux.org springs into existance (Jon Gefaell)
  Re: Cirrus Logic supported by Linux? (Steven M. Palm)
  Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again) (Dominic Fraser)
  Re: Beware: Just Computers (Randy Just)
  Re: Novell and Expose (was: Novell is trying to Sell a derivative) (Denton Bobeldyk)
  Re: Did anyone archive the 'Do you remember....' thread? (Ronan Mullally)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jeroen@gdsnl.gds.nl (Jeroen van Gennip)
Subject: Re: URGENT: Linux Security Fixes
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 13:47:42 GMT

Martin Olesen (olesen@math.uiowa.edu) wrote:

: |> I know the answer to the meaning of life, but I'll leave it as an
: |> exercise for you.  It's EASY.
: |> 
: |> -Clint

:  Well it's 42. I thought everybody knew that :-)

No, It's 41. The ^&*^&* machine made an integer rounding error.

__
J.

------------------------------

From: rjust@crl.com (Randy Just)
Subject: Re: Beware: Just Computers
Date: 22 May 1994 07:50:04 -0700

Chang-Hsun Jon Huang (ch5372@eehpx3) wrote:
: Please don't buy any linux products from Just Computers.
: Mark Brownsen is a nasty person. Decide for yourself.
: Here is what he wrote:

[much deleted]

This is a reply from Just Computers!

Just Computers! offers a dial-up BBS for all to use at no cost.  The system
includes a limited selected of newsgroups as well as internet e-mail access.
We do this for free to our local community.  People get this access on their
first call.

Mark Brownsen is in no way affiliated with Just Computers!  Esentially he
is just a user of the system that took advantage of the immediate e-mail
access.  This is in no way different than a person posting such trash on
a university or internet provider system.

We in no way agree with this viewpoint.  Some of those folks that know me
personally on the internet would be quick to point that this is 180 degrees
different from us.  If you knew who some of my best friends were, then you
would understand this point even more quickly.

I will be speaking to Mark Brownsen regarding this.

It is regrettable that this message was posted without sending e-mail to
the system operator first at justcomp.com  as you would have understood the
situation.

It is even more regrettable that we may have to shut public access to
internet e-mail down because of one bad apple.

Just Computers!
P.O. Box 751414
Petaluma, CA 94975-1414
707/769-1648 Voice
707/765-2447 Fax
rjust@justcomp.com

Randy Just - Owner of Just Computers!


------------------------------

From: ddean@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Devin Wayne Dean)
Subject: Re: InfoMagic CD set - WOW!
Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 00:43:45 GMT

The subject line says it all!!!!!!!!!!!

--
=====================================================================
Devin W. Dean                    | UTSA - "It's like the information
        ddean@ringer.cs.utsa.edu |          super-highway,
        ddean@runner.utsa.edu    |          without the information."
        ddean@lonestar.utsa.edu  |
=====================================================================

------------------------------

From: ron@draconia.hacktic.nl (Ron Smits)
Subject: Shutp up
Date: 22 May 1994 13:34:33 GMT


I'm getting sick and tired of this flame cropping up every three months!
                   Get this discussion out of here!
                      go somewhere else with it!
--



                Ron Smits
                ron@draconia.hacktic.nl
                Ron.Smits@Netherlands.NCR.COM

/*-( My opinions are my opinions, My boss's opinions are his opinions )-*/
/*-(                They might not be the same                        )-*/

------------------------------

From: rjust@crl.com (Randy Just)
Subject: Re: Beware: Just Computers
Date: 22 May 1994 08:10:01 -0700

Chang-Hsun Jon Huang (ch5372@eehpx3) wrote:

We have tried to contact the above individual, but the e-mail is bouncing.
Can someone please supply a valid e-mail address for the above?  Thanks.

Randy Just
Just Computers!
rjust@justcomp.com OR rjust@crl.com


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development
From: habaoch@eng.auburn.edu (Bao Chau Ha)
Subject: Re: PCI or VL bus SCSI Host Adapters
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 15:06:26 GMT

In article <merlyn.769612006@winternet.com> merlyn@icicle.winternet.com (Doug McIntyre) writes:
>
>I don't know why anybody automaticly thinks of VL as soo much faster. I did
>some time comparisions with various VL bus and ISA bus controllers with 
>a fast SCSI-II hard drive (Fujitsu 1.2G), and the one that one had the
>top speed was still the Adaptec 1542CF. Granted, a couple of them came
>real close, like only 20-30k/sec slower :)
>These did not include the Adaptec 2842 though, so I don't know if that
>would have gained anything. I haven't gotten to play with one yet :(

Have you tried the Buslogic BT445S yet?  I have both and the BT445S
is a hair faster.

Anyway, the real limitation of the AHA1542CF is the 16 meg. DMA limit.
OS/2 cannot use memory above 16 meg, except for swap space.  Linux,
I believe, use double buffering(?).  I do like the AHA1542CF's
flexibility.

Bao

------------------------------

From: klfowler@metronet.com (Kenneth L Fowler)
Subject: Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 14:34:03 GMT

In article <2rkb55$1pq@crl2.crl.com>, Bill Hogan <bhogan@crl.com> wrote:
>
>  I very much object to seeing "commercials" on the net!
>
>  If anyone is free to post commercial advertisements on the net then
>everyone is free to post commercial advertisements on the net! 
>
>  "The Net" is like a school: people come here to communicate with other 
>people interested in learning about related things.
>
>  We do not give salespeople free access to our classrooms.
>
>  Why do we not give salespeople free access to our classrooms?
>
>  Should we give salespeople free access our classrooms?
>
>  Should we give salespeople free access to our newsgroups?
>
>  Think about it.
>
>BH    

We do give salesmen free access to our classrooms.  Have done so for years.
Forty years ago we were regularly "given" free pencils and rulers which
just happened to carry advertising.  We were required to cover our
text books with brown paper wrappers which (guess what) were printed with
the advertising of local merchants.  Advertising in schools is nothing
new.  If we had been offered free television/satelite hookups, we would
have taken them, too.  

The purpose of schools is education.  The sooner we teach kids that
the purpose of advertising is to get their money, the better off
those kids will be (in that area of life skills).

The purpose of the newsgroups?  Maybe learning, maybe sharing.  Or
maybe simply to provide a place to troll for the thin-skinned.

I don't like the carpet-bombing of advertisements we have been seeing
lately.  I also don't see any way to escape. 

Cheers... Ken


--
Ken Fowler, wa5bru                   |   Imagine Sarah Brady
klfowler@metronet.com                |   in a room full of Klingons.



------------------------------

From: mpn@AlleleB (Mark P. Nelson)
Subject: Re: Question on Linux Mosaic
Date: 20 May 1994 22:44:01 GMT
Reply-To: mpn@alleleb.berkeley.edu

John Carlos White (johnjohn@cco.caltech.edu) wrote:
: I'm seriously considering installing linux on my machine, but
: I have a question about the availability of a WWW browser that
: works at least as well as Mosaic for the X-windowing environment.

: Is the Linux port of Mosaic reasonable close?  This would affect
: my decision to install linux (mosaic for Windows really sucks).

Mosaic has been up and running under XFree86 and Linux for months.

Don't tell anybody, though, or the net response'll get even slower.

--
Mark P. Nelson (mpn@alleleb.berkeley.edu)
While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the
same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing short of
deliberate.--V.

------------------------------

From: brett@iit.com (Brett Coon)
Subject: Re: software communists was Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 22:01:27 GMT

mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh) writes:
>In article <2rcerk$8ig@finzi.ccinet.ab.ca> kevin@valis.ampr.ab.ca (Kevin B. Fluet) writes:
>>It makes Linux all the better if commercial apps are supported.  

>But there is an ethic behind the development
>of free software which is that software should be free, so that people
>can share it and help each other to improve it.

I think that's just the ethic behind _GNU_ free software.  I don't
share the opinion that all software "should be free".  There are many
reasons for making free software.  One of the big ones is to free
yourself of the hassles of charging money for your software.  Many
people feel the satisfaction of knowing that others are using their
software is reward enough.  Many people write programs as learning
exercises.  Much of the free software available is clearly free for
these same motivations.

>Once you allow a commerical
>software product to satisfy your basic computing needs, you've lost the
>ability to improve it or modify it to suit your needs.

If it suits your needs, why modify it?  If it aint broke, don't
fix it.  There are lots of areas for which commercial software
doesn't fill people's needs, so I think it's far better for
efforts to be aimed at these areas than in reinventing the wheel
just for the sake of stamping out commercial software.

>>If it does the job better than the free software
>>available, why wouldn't I pay a reasonable price for it?  

>Because doing so impedes the necessity for the development of free
>software.

No it doesn't.  There will always be plenty of motivation for making
free software.  For most of us, time is money.  When you buy commercial
software, you're exchanging your money for someone else's time.  I use
Linux because the time I spend installing and maintaining it is worth
the money I save by _not_ buying a commercial Unix OS.  I use Microsoft
Word for Windows because the money it cost me is less than the cost of
the time it would take me to install and learn to use TeX or troff on
Linux.  It's a tradeoff.

>When you give in to commercial software, particularly
>operating systems, you aren't aiding the free software world for
>providing anything better. Free software only improves as long as
>its users demand and allow it to do so. 

Which they should only do if it serves a purpose.  If you believe free
software is "right" and commercial software is "wrong", then I suppose
making more free software always serves a purpose.  If, however, you
feel software, like all other goods, should be traded on a free market
where you shop around and pick the product that you feel is the best
value for the cost, then free software competes in the same market
and by the same rules as commercial software.  I don't forsee or want
an end to either.

>If everyone shared your attitude, Linux wouldn't be here at all.

Why not?  Linux started as a learning project, not as a bold defiant
move against commercial OS'es.  It successfully competes with
commercial OS'es by providing features the other ones lack.  For those
of us with adequate computer skills, the cost is low.  For others who
can't deal with installation complexity, the cost (in time) is higher
than, say, MS-DOS.

>Linus would have stared at his screen printing "AAA... BBB...",
>realized that SCO worked better, and resorted to that.

I've used SCO.  I don't think it worked better, and it's too expensive.
For most of us, SCO isn't competition to Linux, thanks to the cost.

>Instead,
>some of us demand that free software improve, not only by helping
>to develop it, but also by _depending_ on it for everyday use. 

Great.  But some of us use both free and commercial software on
a daily basis, and still help develop free software.

-Brett

--
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Brett Coon  -  brett@iit.com or brettc@leland.stanford.edu |
| Integrated Information Technology Inc. (408) 727-1885 x367 |
+------> finger brettc@leland.stanford.edu for PGP key <-----+

------------------------------

From: jeg7e@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU (Jon Gefaell)
Subject: Re: linux.org springs into existance
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 16:08:16 GMT

In article <ann-10205.769219724@cs.cornell.edu>,
System Administrator <root@homebase.linux.org> wrote:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>  I would like to announce the registration of linux.org as a valid domain name
>in the DNS.  I have set up a system here which I intend to act as the center
>of the linux.org domain.

>   I would like to use the domain for the benefit of the linux community at 
>large, with the assistance of the people behind linux.  With that in mind, I 
>am going to provide a number of services to the community.  

This all sounds marvelous. A very useful domain if ever there was one. The
apparent endorsement by Alan Cox is a Good Thing. I'd like to suggest a
functional alias as well, such as net-code@linux.org or something as well.
If there is an extensive, well supported set of canonical sources for Linux
related information we will all be better served.

>   Alan.Cox@linux.org has already been registered.  For those who aren't aware,
>he is currently the person in charge of networking portion of the linux kernel.

One note however. A great deal of Linux's popularity and value is derived
from it's cooperative and open development/user environment. I shudder when
I see the use of the term 'in charge of' where 'responsible for' could be
used. My suggestion; Take great care to preserve the ad hoc nature of the
Linux community while at the same time providing an invaluable resource for
coordination and availability of Linux materials.

Congratulations on your startup, I'd like to offer my site as a Mirror when
you get things rolling.

Oh, and get Linus signed up, that'll be one of linux.org's best endorsements.

P.S. Is 'Linux' (c) Linus Torvalds????) And is Linux.ORG a Derivative work? 
covered by GPL? Does that mean we all get root? :)
-- 
<a href=:"http://Hopper.ITC.Virginia.EDU/~jeg7e/">Jon Gefaell's Home Page</a>
_____________________________________________________________________________
\ \  /  Jon Gefaell, Computer Systems Engineer       | Amateur Radio, KD4CQY
 \/\/  Community Internetwork Research & Development | -Will chmod for Food-
  \/  The University of Virginia, Charlottesville    |  Hacker@Virginia.EDU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 DoD #1439 '82 CB900F "The Turing Machine" | B4 t+ w++ dc g++ k+ s+ m r p++

------------------------------

From: smp@agape.sol.net (Steven M. Palm)
Subject: Re: Cirrus Logic supported by Linux?
Date: Sun, 22 May 94 06:53:23 GMT

In article <2rl5rv$ecb@crcnis1.unl.edu> jepler@herbie.unl.edu writes:
>
>Also, by looking in /usr/src/linux/boot/setup.S, it seems that Cirrus
>should have some nice extended text modes, like 132x43, 132x60, etc.,
>but I don't get these modes offered to me on bootup (Cirrus 5422).

 Me neither, and I have a 5426 which is slightly newer.


------------------------------

From: dominic@pepper.cuug.ab.ca (Dominic Fraser)
Subject: Re: Linux for the masses? (WordProcessing again)
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 13:53:59 GMT


I don't understand. Have none of you used the AndrewToolKit 'ez' 
wordprocessor?. I have used it for 5 months now with great success, my 
wife likes, it, I like it, my daughter uses it everyday. It produces 
exactly what I expect in a decent wysiwig Wp package and outputs in 
postscript, how much more could I ask?

For me, the discovery of ATK was the end of my mess-dos partition.


-- 
                                                o
  dominic@pepper.cuug.ab.ca                  _ <\_    1(403)286-0216
  Dominic.Fraser@f25.n134.z1.fidonet.org    (+)>(+)   Calgary CANADA
                                           ~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

From: rjust@crl.com (Randy Just)
Subject: Re: Beware: Just Computers
Date: 22 May 1994 09:53:46 -0700

Chang-Hsun Jon Huang (ch5372@eehpx3) wrote:
: Please don't buy any linux products from Just Computers.
: Mark Brownsen is a nasty person. Decide for yourself.
[stuff deleted]


From nntp.crl.com!crl.crl.com!not-for-mail Sun May 22 09:50:03 1994
Path: nntp.crl.com!crl.crl.com!not-for-mail
From: rjust@crl.com (Randy Just)
Newsgroups: alt.chinese.text
Subject: Re: Island of theives:Taiwan
Date: 22 May 1994 09:49:14 -0700
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access        (415) 705-6060  [login: guest]
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <2ro2ea$ov3@crl.crl.com>
References: <6BDNmc1w165w@justcomp.com.z> <1994May21.183651.11549@dec8.ncku.edu.tw.z> <2rmpjl$k5r@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crl.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Chang-Hsun Jon Huang (ch5372@eehpx3) wrote:
:  Everyone! if you have a little pride in you, send
: this Mark Brownsen a message. There is only one of 
: him and a lot of us.  Please, show him what freedom
: of speech is.  

: Jon Huang
: University of Illinois

A response from Just Computers!

I have received information from some of you regarding this message posted
by Mark Brownsen.  My first response to this is that I am horrified to see
such a viewpoint.  It is regrettable that people can harbor such feelings.

More to the point.  Just Computers! offers free internet e-mail access to
the public.  We are big proponents of the internet and offer this access for
folks who might not normally be able to do this.  Mark Brownsen is one of
these individuals that took advantage of this access.  He is in **NO WAY**
affiliated with Just Computers!  Not an employee, nothing.  I don't know
who he is and he very well may have used an alias as we tried to contact
him via the phone number he left.  It is the wrong phone number.

In the past we offered access to people on the first call.  We are now in
the process of changing this policy due to the actions of Mark Brownsen.
His actions not only have impacted the Chinese community worldwide, but
now also have impacted the lives of several individuals in our local 
community.  

Just Computers! and its employees do not prescribe to Mr. Brownsens 
viewpoints.  What is worse, we are in many ways active in the community to
counter viewpoints such as Mr. Brownsens and his attitude.  Racism is an
issue we feel VERY strongly about and are quite hurt that a message such
as Mr. Brownsens was disseminated from a medium that we offered to the
public at expense to us.

If there are any comments, please feel free to contact me.  I also would
ask that anyone that has forwarded this message to other newsgroups, please
send this follow-up to it.

Randy Just
Just Computers!
P.O. Box 751414
Petaluma, CA 94975-1414
707/769-1648
707/765-2447 FAX
rjust@justcomp.com OR rjust@crl.com


------------------------------

From: dbobel98@ursa.calvin.edu (Denton Bobeldyk)
Subject: Re: Novell and Expose (was: Novell is trying to Sell a derivative)
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 17:13:11 GMT

aaron@funcity.njit.edu (Aaron Watters) writes:


>On the other hand if they do something nasty to ``break off a new
>tree'' you linux guys can go your own merry way with your own tree
>and best of luck.  I hope however that this is real, and a new ray
>of hope in the dark and miserable world of licences, patents,
>non-disclosure agreements, per user licences, etcetera.  Maybe Novell
>can bring GPLed software in a slick-shrink wrap to those of us who
>blanch at the idea of patching and recompiling the kernel, after,
>of course, ``reading all the pertinent FAQS''.  Here's hopin'.         -a.

        'patching and recompiling the kernel'-  It's not that hard to do.
It's really quite simple actually.  I believe there's only one file you have
to read, and that's included in the tar package of the kernel.

        I'm just hoping that with this increased popularity in Linux those
of us who like looking at the guts of things and don't mind reading some
README's and FAQ's every now and then don't get runover.  Look at how much
more user friendly Linux has become even in the past couple of months.  There's
a ton of people out there that are working hard to make configuring all the
different aspects of Linux to be easier and more user-friendly.  Look how easy
the slackware Distribution was to install!  
        I guess I just like the idea of being able to hack the source code of
virtually any program that I can get my hands on that runs on Linux.  Not of
course that I'm intelligent enough to do so yet... but I like the idea.  

        *shrug* --> Std. disclaimer cuz I have to bail, don't have any more time to post my thoughts.

        -DJB

------------------------------

From: ronan@scamall9.iol.ie (Ronan Mullally)
Subject: Re: Did anyone archive the 'Do you remember....' thread?
Date: 22 May 1994 14:52:00 +0100

Bernd Meyer (umisef@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au) writes:

> When you had the choice to either get MCC from Manchester or the
> boot/root disk set from Helsinki?
> When Linus used to change the yy in "linux x.yy" every few weeks?

When we thought the jump from 0.99 to 1.0 would take a couple of weeks ;)

--
 Ronan Mullally           '"Sodomy non sapiens," said Albert under his breath.
 <ronan@scamall9.iol.ie>   "What does that mean?"
                           "Means I'm buggered if I know."'

------------------------------


** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **

The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:

    Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:

    Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
    nic.funet.fi				pub/OS/Linux
    tsx-11.mit.edu				pub/linux
    sunsite.unc.edu				pub/Linux

End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
