Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #141
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sat, 21 May 94 01:13:09 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #141, Volume #2                Sat, 21 May 94 01:13:09 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Putting keywords in Subject: lines (Daniel Quinlan)
  Re: comparison of free unix software? (Satoshi ASAMI)
  Re: Standard Linux GUI (Dan Newcombe)
  Re: URGENT: Linux Security Fixes (Rene COUGNENC)
  Re: Clothes named after programming languages (Rob Janssen)
  Re: Clothes named after programming languages (Rob Janssen)
  Re: COMAL language (was: Re: Streets named after programming languages) (Finnbogi R. Ragnarsson)
  Just Computers! Yggdrasil Shipments (Randy Just)
  Re: Streets named after programming languages (dave pierson)
  Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Robert Sanders)
  Re: Who are you & what do you do w/ Linux? (David Simmons)
  Question on Linux Mosaic (John Carlos White)
  Re: Improving Linux performance: What works best? (Craig I. Hagan)
  Re: Bug report (?): Gnu C++ 2.5.8 with Linux 1.0.8 (Posix) or 1.1.0 (Joe Buck)
  Re: How long has your Linux Boxbeen up? (Mike Charlton)
  FSSTND and hard-disk partitioning (Scott Barker)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu (Daniel Quinlan)
Subject: Re: Putting keywords in Subject: lines
Date: 20 May 1994 14:57:35 GMT
Reply-To: quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu


Scott Barker <barkers@cuug.ab.ca> writes:

> I vaguely recall some discussions going on in the c.o.l.help group
> where someone was trying to encourage the use of [keywords] in the
> Subject lines of news articles. Does anyone know if a set of
> keywords was arrived at, and if there are any plans to promote this
> practice? I personally think it's a great idea, and it would make it
> a lot easier to wade through the hundreds of articles coming through
> per day. Sure, kill files work great, but it would be even easier if
> all you had to do was kill any article not containing [<something>].

Unfortunately, it seems that the discussion never got past the
discussion phase.  I agree that it would be a good idea, although only
if done voluntarily -- people are too used to their precious freedom.

> If this idea was squashed, forgive my asking. If not, and others
> think it's a good idea, and no-one else is working on maintaining a
> list of keywords, I'd be willing to adminster it - doing things like
> the initial voting on appropriate keywords, maintaining and
> periodically posting the list, etc.

I'd just go for it, but encourage people to mail you directly with
keywords.  Then, post a list and ask for more mailed comments.  Then,
just post it twice a week.

Dan

--
Daniel Quinlan  <quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu>

------------------------------

From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi ASAMI)
Subject: Re: comparison of free unix software?
Date: 20 May 94 13:29:12

In article <644@fjcp60.GOV> golds@fjc.GOV (golds) writes:

 * I am not trying to initiate a flame war, just gather some facts.  I am

If we have learned any lesson from what happened in the past, please
don't cross-post anything to the Linux and 386BSD newsgroups!  This is
the only case that posting the same article SEPARATELY to the two
newsgroups is preferable over crossposting.

And to people who reply to this post: please restrict the Newsgroups:
line to the OS you use.  Let's not waste bandwidth again!

Satoshi

(BTW, Followup-To: c.o.l.misc wasn't very nice.)

------------------------------

From: newcombe@aa.csc.peachnet.edu (Dan Newcombe)
Subject: Re: Standard Linux GUI
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 14:05:34 UNDEFINED

In article <2rfpoa$17p@jammed.is.ic.net> jam@jammed.is.ic.net (jam) writes:
>that whatever interface you want to use, they all use the _same_ one. Of
>course it would be more marketable to be "compatible" with MS-WINDOZE, but
>Microsoft would probably sue for look and feel anyway (anyone remember all
>the Apple lawsuits over their machine?)..

Now that would be a totally hipocritical move for MicroSloth.  Here they were 
defending them selves a few years ago against a lawsuit from Apple that 
alleged them of copying the look and feel.  And now they would be the ones 
prosecuting on the same basis.

        But this is microsloth.
                -Dan

--
Dan Newcombe                    newcombe@aa.csc.peachnet.edu
Clayton State College           Morrow, Georgia
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"And the man in the mirror has sad eyes."       -Marillion

------------------------------

From: rene@renux.frmug.fr.net (Rene COUGNENC)
Subject: Re: URGENT: Linux Security Fixes
Date: 20 May 1994 12:56:04 GMT
Reply-To: cougnenc@hsc.fr.net (Rene COUGNENC)

Ce brave John Lellis ecrit:

> Alan Cox (A.Cox@swansea.ac.uk) wrote:
> : This tar contains both source and binaries built for libc 4.5.21 without
> : shadow passwords. The source can build for shadow passwords.

> Unfortunately, the binaries supplied give a library mismatch error on my
> system (SLS 1.03 running 1.0.0 kernel) and telnetd.c does not compile when
> I try to make:

You might consider upgrading to the up to date libraries and development
tools, I think...

--
 linux linux linux linux -[ cougnenc@renux.frmug.fr.net ]- linux linux linux 

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology
From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen)
Subject: Re: Clothes named after programming languages
Reply-To: pe1chl@rabo.nl
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 23:03:48 GMT

In <769125184snz@rock.demon.co.uk> Graham@rock.demon.co.uk (Graham Nicholls) writes:

>In article <1994May16.205321.4163@dxcern.cern.ch>
>           danpop@cernapo.cern.ch "Dan Pop" writes:

>> Every ANSI C compiler is braceless!
>> Just use ??< instead of { and ??> instead of }.
>> If you're using gcc, don't forget the -ansi option.

>Am I missing something? (dont say a brain, please)
>You _cannot_ be serious! ??< every time I want a brace?
>Or am I missing some subtle joke?

Of course this could only be invented by an ANSI committee :-)

Rob
-- 
=========================================================================
| Rob Janssen                | AMPRnet:   rob@pe1chl.ampr.org           |
| e-mail: pe1chl@rabo.nl     | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU     |
=========================================================================

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology
From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen)
Subject: Re: Clothes named after programming languages
Reply-To: pe1chl@rabo.nl
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 23:05:30 GMT

In <cairnss.769226559@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> cairnss@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Queenie) writes:

>Bug.  
>(void)printf("What???!\n");
>outputs
>  What?|
>fix
>  use "What\?\?\?\!\n" instead.

That's not a Bug!  It's a feature...

Rob
-- 
=========================================================================
| Rob Janssen                | AMPRnet:   rob@pe1chl.ampr.org           |
| e-mail: pe1chl@rabo.nl     | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8UTR.#UTR.NLD.EU     |
=========================================================================

------------------------------

From: frr@rhi.hi.is (Finnbogi R. Ragnarsson)
Crossposted-To: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: COMAL language (was: Re: Streets named after programming languages)
Date: 18 May 1994 16:09:19 GMT

>>    Ben> wrote: :> Apropos of Commodore's death [Warning: impending
>>    Ben> topic drift] :> does anyone remember a language called COMAL?
>>    Ben> Did this language :> ever exist on a system besides the C64?
It started on the Commodore PET.
I learned COMAL on a pet back in 1983. It was mainly a education tool,
to limited for serious use (too much missing). 
I didn't like it, (to limited) just as I don't like Pascal, but it was
programming wise much better than the PET basic (what isn't?) and a lot 
faster. I still have some sort of manual for it somwhere.


frr.


------------------------------

From: rjust@crl.com (Randy Just)
Subject: Just Computers! Yggdrasil Shipments
Date: 18 May 1994 17:54:30 -0700

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been shipped for the Summer '94 Release of the Yggdrasil Plug-and-Play
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shortly.  Those orders which included the Linux Bible will be shipped shortly.

United States non-COD orders were shipped on 05/13/94 (Friday) and 
        05/14/94 (Saturday).
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For those unfamiliar with Just Computers!, we resell a variety of CD-ROMs.
One of those titles is the recent Yggdrasil release of Linux 1.1  We are
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For pricing and ordering information, send e-mail to our automated mailserver
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Or information can be requested by sending e-mail to sales@justcomp.com or
rjust@crl.com  Your business is both valued and appreciated.

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P.O. Box 751414
Petaluma, CA 94975-1414
U.S.A.
707/769-1648
707/765-2447 FAX
sales@justcomp.com OR rjust@crl.com

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.humor.puns
From: pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com (dave pierson)
Subject: Re: Streets named after programming languages
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 01:38:55 GMT

There is at least one Lois Lane in a small town in NH.  Don't recall which.

A "well known" computer compnay had a plant on "Iron Way".  In the fullness of
time it was renamed "Results Way".

If i ever take up real estate development, i want to have a South Hope St and
a North Hope St, for the sake of the abbreviation...

(true tiem)

A certain well known (in his time) singer requested that a street in Beverly
Hills be (re) named Rue de Vallee.

thanks
dave pierson                        |the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation       |the opinions, my own.
200 Forest St                       |I am the NRA.
Marlboro, Mass 01752 USA            pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles

------------------------------

From: gt8134b@prism.gatech.edu (Robert Sanders)
Subject: Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: 20 May 1994 11:39:42 -0400

dholland@husc9.harvard.edu (David Holland) writes:


>shyamal@seas.smu.edu's message of Wed, 18 May 1994 16:42:51 GMT said:

> > To be honest I don't see what a non-free editor is doing in a linux
> > newsgroup ;-)

>;-) or not, this is exactly the sort of comment, and attitude, that is
>keeping the major software companies from supporting Linux. 

Well, I'm sure it doesn't encourage them, but I really doubt they're
all overwhelmed by the size of the Linux market, but have their feelings
so bruised by USENET that they just don't think it's worth it anymore.

This is like tribal peoples performing rituals so that the fertility god
would be pleased and the crops would grow.  Whether companies decide
to release commercial software for Linux depends very little upon what
is said by a few people in response to commercial mis(use) of the Net.

Not that it matters, but I found it to be an informative post, though the
editor in question is decidedly inferior to Emacs*.

* Note that I am saying that to appease the Emacs god, who unlike most
  omnipotent beings, does exist and *will* punish the unfaithful.
-- 
 _g,  '96 --->>>>>>>>>>   gt8134b@prism.gatech.edu  <<<<<<<<<---  CompSci  ,g_
W@@@W__        |-\      ^        | disclaimer:  <---> "Bow before ZOD!" __W@@@W
W@@@@**~~~'  ro|-<ert s/_\ nders |   who am I???  ^  from Superman  '~~~**@@@@W
`*MV' hi,ocie! |-/ad! /   \ss!!  | ooga ooga!!    |    II (cool)!         `VW*'

------------------------------

From: simmons@EE.MsState.Edu (David Simmons)
Subject: Re: Who are you & what do you do w/ Linux?
Date: 19 May 1994 01:16:54 GMT
Reply-To: simmons@EE.MsState.Edu

In article <2rbincINNbf4@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>,
Bogdan Urma <bau1@cornell.edu> wrote:
>    After reading through the comp.os.linux groups for the past couple
>of months, I keep running into the same names, and out of curiosity I 
>would like to know how you people got introduced to Linux and what you
>use Linux for. I think it would be kind of interesting to see what 
>people use Linux for. Also, who is this person lilo, who pops up everywhere?
>Reply here, not by e-mail, so that everyone could read about you!
>
>Bogdan Urma
>E-mail:bau1@cornell.edu

After discovering the wonder of Unix in early 1992 by using my high school's
Sun server, I began looking for a free version to run on my PC.  I found
Linux, then around version 0.12 or something, and fell in love.  I promote
the use of Linux at my university... the aerospace department here uses Linux
a lot, as does the flight lab that the university runs.  I co-founded the
Golden Triangle Linux Users Group (gtlug.org) to help support linux users
in the community.  Most of my work with linux has been of local interest, so
you won't see many posts from me in the newsgroups.

Cheers,
David

-- 
David Simmons, System Administrator                 simmons@ee.msstate.edu
Mississippi State University Electrical and Computer Engineering
Visit my home page!  http://www.msstate.edu/~dls3/

------------------------------

From: johnjohn@cco.caltech.edu (John Carlos White)
Subject: Question on Linux Mosaic
Date: 20 May 1994 21:32:24 GMT

I'm seriously considering installing linux on my machine, but
I have a question about the availability of a WWW browser that
works at least as well as Mosaic for the X-windowing environment.

Is the Linux port of Mosaic reasonable close?  This would affect
my decision to install linux (mosaic for Windows really sucks).

Thanks for your responces.

John
-- 
John White
johnjohn@unholy1.caltech.edu
i just want something i can never have

------------------------------

From: hagan@opine.cs.umass.edu (Craig I. Hagan)
Subject: Re: Improving Linux performance: What works best?
Date: 20 May 1994 15:41:49 GMT

[article reordered]

> Perhaps a MicroVAX?  
> Shop around for something with fast I/O,
> just about everything can beat a PC.

sigh. wrong wrong and wrong again.

*) a microvax is so goddam slow -- both i/o and cpu, that putting
   it against a pc is crazy. they use mfm drives, btw, and
   my 486dx/33 with isa/mfm blew the crap outa a microvax
   under any bench. the 1mip cpu CANNOT keep up with the
   i/o of a network (period) nor would i expect it to, if you
   do the math -- how many ops to move a packet? ethernet is
   about 1.2mb/s

*) a sun3 also has trouble keeping up with wire speed (it can't,
   either) heavy disk i/o blows the cpu apart. again, a 486/*
   will kill it.

*) you mention disk i/o. disk drives peak (for non-raid) at
   what, 3-5mb/s? a 1542b does 5mb/s to 8mb/s depending
   upon your ability to process dma (this is switch selectable)
   the EISA 1742 series is much faster than this (dec uses
   it in the axp150 and 2000 series alphas -- which bench
   at the same speed as the 3000 series with nhfstone going
   up to a load of 80). IO is CLEARY not the limiting factor,
   unless you are serving many disks, and doing a lot of video
   processing. If you are doing this on your news server,
   you deserve it to be slow.

*) a pc with an EISA bus can keep up with a decstation NOOO problem.
   I have a pc setup as a news server, and it is just as fast as
   my primary server -- an alpha 3000/400 with 96 mb of core. the
   pc is EISA (IDE drive, scsi is at least as fast), 24mb core,
   486dx2/66

*) a pc with a 32bit pci bus has a 132mb/s io channel. that is FASTER
   than the future bus on a 3000/600. 64bit pci is 264mb/s.
   now, you were talking about suns being fast?

> Current activity is more than 2GB of news if you expire every two weeks.
> For a busy network. ANY (read ANY) machine will sit with the
> hard drive cranking 24 hours a day.  You are limited by Hard Drive
> Access time. Remember, even a very slow CPU is much faster than a
> hard drive.

there are several news servers on this campus, using between
300mb and 2g of space, with an expiration of 3days, expect
between 400mb and 1g of news.

> If you are on a limited budget try and pick up a junk Sun 3 with a 
> few gigs of SMD disk, this machine will do better than a SPARC
> and SCSI2 for this kind of disk activity.

ever run news on something with a functional cpu? you will *see*
the difference. saying that a sun3 serves news is like saying
an 8088 runs dos. it does, but, it is so damn slow that
it isn't worth the penalty. nowadays, you really want about 30-50+mips
on your news server, and a decent amount of core. if your i/o
bus can outrun the news disk, then you are gold.

my recs are a pc with an eisa bus an adaptek 1742 card,
dx2/5 or better processor, 16mb+ of core. this really screws.
and no vax (6000/410, 64mb core) or decstation (5000/133 32mb core) 
can keep up.

perhaps you just haven't run news on enough crippled architectures,
or you haven't run it on something that actually goes fast?


-- craig

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development
From: jbuck@synopsys.com (Joe Buck)
Subject: Re: Bug report (?): Gnu C++ 2.5.8 with Linux 1.0.8 (Posix) or 1.1.0
Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 21:19:46 GMT

rcbare@rwa.urc.tue.nl (Remco v. Engelen) writes:
>I think I've found a bug in either the Linux floating point emulation code
>or the Gnu C++ compiler for Linux. When the running the following piece
>of code I get a Floating Exception:

g++ bugs should be reported to gnu.g++.bug.  The g++ maintainers at
Cygnus are much more likely to see them if you do.  Yes, it could be
Linux specific, but it's just as likely to be on all 80x86 platforms.

-- 
-- Joe Buck     <jbuck@synopsys.com>
Posting from but not speaking for Synopsys, Inc.
***** Stamp out junk e-mail spamming!  If someone sends you a junk e-mail
***** ad just because you posted in comp.foo, boycott their company.

------------------------------

From: charlto@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Mike Charlton)
Subject: Re: How long has your Linux Boxbeen up?
Date: 18 May 94 16:53:58 GMT

rodkey@rain.org (John Rodkey) writes:

>dminor@metronet.com (David Minor) writes:

>>Just out of curiosity, how long has your Linux system been up?  I have a 
>>client who is using a Linux system as a DOS file server.  Due to power work
>>being done over the weekend, I had to shut it down after 146 days, 22 hours
>>and 7 minutes.  "Joshua" is Slackware 1.1.0 (0.99.pl13) on a 386/33 ALR.

>>-Dave

>Dang!   And I thought I was doing pretty good with pulsar (486/33) being up
>for 64 consecutive days.  Of course, it was rebooted because of a power outage,
>and it was about 50 days before that....  Still second-best.  Oh well... :)

Well, the only time my machine goes down is when I'm installing a new
kernel.  Of course that seems to be every couple of weeks or so... :-)

              Mike

------------------------------

From: barkers@cuug.ab.ca (Scott Barker)
Subject: FSSTND and hard-disk partitioning
Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 21:29:45 GMT

Well, I've just read over version 1.0 of the linux file system standard, and
noticed that it made somewhat of an implication that there be separate
partitions for root (/), /usr, and /var (and possibly /home).

I've also noticed on many systems that I've used that /var/spool/mail and
/var/spool/news also each have their own partitions.

I've only just (finally) gotten Linux up and running about 2-3 months ago, and
I've been trying my hand at all this system administration stuff. Since I'll
be setting up a news feed soon, I was a little worried about the possibility
of a large burst of news filling up my hard-drive, and so this partitioning
stuff becamse somewhat more of an issue for me.

I was wondering what other users out in Linux-land have used for their
partitioning scheme (what's mounted where, and how big the partitions are),
and why.

If you could respond by e-mail, I would summarize and post the results for
everyone to enjoy.

--
Scott Barker
barkers@cuug.ab.ca

"Man created God in his own image."
   - Lazarus Long

------------------------------


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