Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #132
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Thu, 19 May 94 03:13:50 EDT

Linux-Misc Digest #132, Volume #2                Thu, 19 May 94 03:13:50 EDT

Contents:
  Linux and the ALPHA flamers... (Dwight M Evers)
  Re: What Linux CD distribution to buy? (George W. (Bill Pogue))
  Re: Who are you & what do you do w/ Linux? (George W. (Bill Pogue))
  Re: I got email from Elvis (Shyamal Prasad)
  Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (Shyamal Prasad)
  Wait'll you see the May 16th PCWEEK... (Jason Rimmer)
  Re: Streets named after programming languages (Robert Swirsky-Warner)
  Re: Learning C++ on Linux? (David Chatterton)
  Re: Making "nice" nicer. (David Black)
  Linux in PC Week 5/16 (was Re: Linux in PC Week again (May 9thi ssue)  (yuan@tyuan.chi.il.us)
  Re: 3C509 (Etherlink III) support (Erik Nygren)
  Re: Streets named after programming languages (Byron Hynes)
  Linux Install help needed? (Brian Bell)
  Re: GNU Manifesto and Lisp window system  was Re: linux unethical ? (Matt Welsh)
  Re: Making "nice" nicer. (Robert G. Smith)
  Re: Fortran ? (Robert G. Smith)
  Re: A good NFS server ? (Alexandra Griffin)
  Solution to serial-terminal problem... (Alexandra Griffin)
  Re: Linux on a Toshiba T2200sx? (Michael Rohleder)
  Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor (dan@oea.hacktic.nl)
  Re: Standard Linux GUI (Dave Hinz)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: evers@plains.NoDak.edu (Dwight M Evers)
Subject: Linux and the ALPHA flamers...
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 18:07:48 GMT

Again let me say, settle down people...

As my mail box grows with flames from users, let me ask one very simple 
question to all of you that had a nasty message...

        HAVE YOU EVER USED A DEC ALPHA (AXP)????

What those mag-rags say is very different in many cases than what most of 
you , if any, would use an ALPHA for. I was incorrect about a couple of 
bits of info about the CRAY-1, but the it and the ALPHA are very 
different. Even Jim P. who originally posted the article that I replied 
to admits that the two systems were designed for diff uses and applications.

Many of the tests used in verifying SPECmarks published in rags are a bit 
over the top of what you or I will most likely see. But then this is not 
a new marketing ploy by any means...But I have yet to see any SPECmark'92 
scores for the original CRAY-1. And I mean PUBLISHED scores, not talk at 
the coffee table at noon.

To make this as CLEAR AS POSSIBLE...ALPHA is RISC...Linux is (CURRENTLY) 
CISC... I know of no ports of Linux tothe ALPHA. I do not claim in any 
way what-so-ever that it is possible or impossible. It is just that I am 
content with using Linux on my 486. And I am only using the BASIC disk 
images, no X or GUI. But, a co-worker of mine attempted to port an X 
application, that worked on an SCO-pentium machine , to the DEC ALPHA 
(AXP) OSF/1 environment. The problems ( I called them BUGS in my first 
posting) he ran into were with ( so he says) memory addressing. Many of 
you that replied seem to think that I was accusing the ALPHA of being 
nothing more than an overclocked-half-assed 287. Get a grip...

These are the type of people who I wonder if they have gotten up close to 
a real DEC at all. I have NEVER in the 3 months of use, seen any problems 
with the ALPHA other than misconceptions in some peoples minds. Never 
once has she ever crashed or shown me a glitch of any sort.

Boy, did this posting get complicated andd off track REAL QUICK.

------------------------------

From: gwp@dithots.org (George W. (Bill) Pogue)
Subject: Re: What Linux CD distribution to buy?
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 14:57:18 GMT

sbrown@charon.dseg.ti.com (Steve Brown) writes:

>In article <2r4lr1$jpl@crl.crl.com> francr@crl.com (Franc Ragsac) writes:

>> I'm shopping for Linux in CDs.
>> I've heard TransAmeritech, Walnut  Creek and Ygdrassil.
>> Anyone know which one is easier to install?

>  I don't see how anything could be much _easier_ to install than
>  the TransAmeritech version.  I was very impressed.  

I agree. I've installed and updated TransAmeritech releases and it doesn't get
much easier. I've seen a couple of the others that you mentioned but they 
weren't nearly as smooth (at least for the install I was part of).

bill

------------------------------

From: gwp@dithots.org (George W. (Bill) Pogue)
Subject: Re: Who are you & what do you do w/ Linux?
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 15:04:42 GMT

bau1@cornell.edu               (Bogdan Urma) writes:

>    After reading through the comp.os.linux groups for the past couple
>people use Linux for. Also, who is this person lilo, who pops up everywhere?

Maybe it is a person that this was named after, but in all other respects this
is the Linux Loader (similar to the bootstrap). It performs the actual load
of the OS (or begins that actual load of the OS).

As for me, move to Linux from a DOS Waffle 1.65 setup that I ran for three 
years (hey, don't fuss at me for it... it worked!) Now I'm in a much
better world for what I want to do. Found out about Linux from rwsys, which
is a host that I was getting my feed from. Rwsys was using Linux as a test
to see if they should switch from current platforms (probably will just run
several boxes). That's where I was and how I found out about it.

bill

------------------------------

From: shyamal@seas.smu.edu (Shyamal Prasad)
Subject: Re: I got email from Elvis
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 16:36:04 GMT

In article <2raj40$m7t@lo-fan.jpl.nasa.gov>,
gsnyder <Gerald_C_Snyder@ccmail.jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>               [deleted]
>much difficulty (the system did _not_ live up to its reputation
>for being user-unfriendly).  It was from Elvis, saying that the
>last time I shut down the system, I had been editing a file, and
>that I could recover whatever changes I had made by running
>elvrec.
>
>All I can say is "WOW!!!"  

Hey, I'm glad some one else is as impressed. That happened a few weeks
after I started using Linux (I've been using UNIX for several years
now) and I thought it was really cool.

One of my non-computer aware friends looked at my computer in awe and
said "HAL!".

Shyamal
-- 
Shyamal Prasad, Department of Computer Science
Southern Methodist University, Dallas TX 75275, USA

------------------------------

From: shyamal@seas.smu.edu (Shyamal Prasad)
Subject: Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 16:42:51 GMT

In article <2ra3q3$3an@finzi.ccinet.ab.ca>,
Kevin B. Fluet <kevin@valis.ampr.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>The X version (vcr) wants libxv3.so.2.  Does anyone know where to find it?
>Isn't that a rather old lib?  libxv3.so.3 doesn't seem to be compatible.
>
>BTW, the text version is very impressive so far.  Could this FINALLY be the
>Linux GUI word-processor everyone has been waiting for.

Not me! Emacs 19 is GUI enough for me (Emacs 18 was good enough for
me!), and its free. There is no way I'm going to plunk down $300 or so
for an editor that cannot be *much* superior to emacs. To be honest I
don't see what a non-free editor is doing in a linux newsgroup ;-)

Of course I'm trying to be unbiased, but if you really want to know: I
doubt its better than emacs :-)

Shyamal
-- 
Shyamal Prasad, Department of Computer Science
Southern Methodist University, Dallas TX 75275, USA

------------------------------

From: jrimmer@netcom.com (Jason Rimmer)
Subject: Wait'll you see the May 16th PCWEEK...
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 07:27:16 GMT

        If you thought the May 9th PCWEEK's report on Linux was bad, you'll probably 
want to hide the May 16th issue.  Here's the goods (typos are mine):

32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix, DOS 7 by Anne Knowles
"Novell, Inc. is targeting July for the launch of its 32-bit multitasking 
desktop operating system called Corsair.
        Tentatively priced at $99, the operating system combines Novell DOS 7 with a 
kernal based on Linux 1.0, a Unix clone for Intel Corp. PCs that is freely 
available over the Internet, according to a Novell internal document examoned 
by PC Week.
        The document describes Corsair as an "enterprise networking client fully 
integrated into NetWare and Unix networks."
        Code-named Expose, the software will run on systems based on Intel and 
PowerPC processors and "other leading RISC platforms," according to the 
document.  User will be able to run Windows, DOS, and Intel Application Binary 
Interface-compliant Unix applications simultaneously.
        A "virtual world" 3-D graphical interface will emulate real-world job 
functions, thereby reducing training costs and increasing productivity, the 
document states.  Corsair will also feature a World-Wide Web browser that may 
be based upon, or similar to, Mosaic, a popular interface that is also freely 
available via the Internet.
        "All elements of the Corsair user interface are remotely manageable, further 
reducing support and administration overhead," the document states.  However, 
there were no details regarding which network or systems-management protocols, 
platforms, or applications are supported.
        A Novell spokeswoman cautioned that there is no set release date for Corsair. 
 And since corporate buyers already must sift through several commercial 
operating systems, some users questioned where the new software would find a 
home.
        The rest of the article is a mish-mash of consultant garbage...

        I'm no expert on the GNU license, and I know it's been beaten about here in 
reference to earlier PCWEEK articles, but what the HECK is going on?

jrimmer@netcom.com
Eclectic Technologies

Subvert the dominant paradigm, use Corsair (err, I mean Linux).

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology,alt.humor.puns
From: swirsky@adobe.com (Robert Swirsky-Warner)
Subject: Re: Streets named after programming languages
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 17:10:19 GMT


In San Jose, there's "Bascom" which was the name of at least
one BASIC compiler about 15 years ago when these programs
were popular.

(BTW: Does anyone remember Microsoft's compiler for
"Applsoft BASIC" that, according to the manual, was
written in Applesoft and compiled with itself? It
worked well, but took a long time to compile anything.

--
Robert "Apple ][ Forever" S.

------------------------------

From: davidc@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au (David Chatterton)
Crossposted-To: unl.linux,comp.lang.c++
Subject: Re: Learning C++ on Linux?
Date: 19 May 1994 04:14:22 GMT

Jeff Epler (jepler@herbie.unl.edu) wrote:
: I'm interested in learning C++ during my free time this summer, and
: the only compiler I have easy access to is GCC on my home Linux
: machine.

Good move, Linux that is :)

: Does anyone know of a book that is well-suited to what I want?
:  1) Isn't taylored to a DOS compiler like BC++ -- So no chapters upon
:     chapters on the BGI or creating a Mouse class or installing an
:     interrupt or 
:  2) Is targeted at the proficient C programmer who is knowledgeless
:     about this 'objects' thing.

Hmmm, most are aimed at DOS compilers. Stroustrup's "The C++ Language 2nd
Edition" covers everything but is not a tutorial. Meyes "Effective C++"
assumes some knowledge already. Coplien's book is also good. These may not be
suited to your needs. Check the FAQ, I'm sure it discusses this further.

I started with C++, A guide for C programmers by Hekmatpour (Prentice
Hall), but I suspect it is a bit out of date now. 

:  3) (Is this too talk an order?  A book unto itself?) Teaches me to
:     program in X Windows, but certainly not Motif.

No, its hard enough covering all the aspects of C++ and you don't need C++
to program X. However I believe there maybe some books that examine X
programming using C++ (assumming you know C++). Maybe someone else can help
you there.

:  4) Is available in electronic form.  Less necessary, but way I
:     finally learned C was with some 'ctutor' program, viewing
:     the text in one window of my text editor, and the code in another.
:     This would be more of an added bonus than a requirement.

IMHO you will find really good texts only on the bookshop shelf, people
need to make money to live :) THere are however plenty of public domain
class libraries about (like ose) which you can examine and learn alot from.

: Also, is GCC's c++ compilation really good enough for me to learn c++?
: I have read, though not understood, about how g++ is still limited
: compared to 'cfront' (whatever that is -- I gather it is some
: commercial c++ compiler) but I don't know if this deficiency is
: anything that I'm going to be frustrated by as I take my first steps
: at learning the language...

For a beginner, gcc is fine and will handle most things adequately (keep
-Wall switched on though). There are a few things it still doesn't support
some aspects like embedded classes very well, but it is improving. On a
linux box, you don't have much choice as it is only public domain c++
compiler out there (as far as I'm aware).

No compiler is "best", as _NONE_ fully support the standard as it is still
sometime away from being finalised. 

Hope this helps,

David


David Chatterton     | "A new character has come on the scene (I am sure I did
Comp Sci Department, | not invent him, I did not even want him, though I like
Monash Uni, Clayton, | him, but there he came, walking out of the woods of
Australia, 3168.     | Ithilien): Faramir, the brother of Boromir."
Phone: 03 905 5375   | - in a letter from JRR Tolkien to his son, 4 May 1944.
email: davidc@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au

------------------------------

From: dave@hh.sbay.org (David Black)
Subject: Re: Making "nice" nicer.
Date: 18 May 1994 20:55:55 -0700

In <1994May18.224535.12718@excaliber.uucp> joel@wam.umd.edu (Joel M. Hoffman) writes:

>On my lowly '386 machine, I find that even with background jobs niced,
>foreground jobs don't get enough CPU time.  For example, as I type
>this, I have povray running  nice'd (level 10), but it's still getting
>over 30% of the CPU time.  

I find that running 10 background jobs at nice level +14
(i.e., raytracers) does not noticeably impact anything
happening in the foreground. However, I believe that unlike
BSD the lowest nice level for Linux (+14)
still guarantees *some* time to processes niced at that level
even if they're competing with higher-priority processes.

It would be useful to have a level (+15?) at which a process
only gets time if *no* other high priority processes want to run.
Processes in that same class (+15) would divvy up idle
time evenly.

Haven't looked into doing that in the kernel tho - may be
easy, maybe not. But IMHO it would definitely be useful to be able to push
processes into an "idle time" class via a nice level.

But a real-time high-priority class, dunno if that's a good idea...
I know it's real easy to hose up AmigaDOS by upping priorities
carelessly, and seems that there are warnings about that
in SVR4's documentation too. (SVR4 has a realtime priority class)
As it stands, a nice -10 process on Linux
can be chugging but still lets others run, at least a little.
Good thing methinks.

Dave
-- 
David L. Black                     dave@hh.sbay.org
Hip-Hop BBS  Sunnyvale, CA         KE6AJC @ N0ARY.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NOAM

------------------------------

From: yuan@tyuan.chi.il.us
Subject: Linux in PC Week 5/16 (was Re: Linux in PC Week again (May 9thi ssue) 
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 06:29:52 GMT

This issue, again, gets into more details which all of you folks may
be interested in reading it. Again, this half of the article shows on
the cover page. Let me quote a bit from it:

  "priced at $99"
  "could debut in July"
  "combines Novell DOS 7"
  "will run on Intel and PowerPC processors and other leading RISC
   platforms"
  "users will be able to run indows, DOS and Internet Application Binary
   Interface compliant Unix applications simultaneously"

  --yuan
   
  p.s. I rather not believe this is rumor for the reason that PC Week
   has been reporting Novell's Linux every week lately :-)  How are you 
   feeling?

 
-- 


------------------------------

From: nygren@athena.mit.edu (Erik Nygren)
Subject: Re: 3C509 (Etherlink III) support
Date: 19 May 1994 05:46:31 GMT

In article <2rda6q$uhm@berlioz.crs4.it>, miguel@lucy.crs4.it (Miguel Blanco Alvarez) writes:
|>    But you should be better reading the Hardware Compatibility List at sunsite
|> when you have this kind of questions. There you'll find a better answer (more
|> complete, I mean).

Actually, you're better off reading the Ethernet HOWTO.  The Hardware
Compatability HOWTO was updated in August, last I saw.  This means it is
totally out of date.  Some people have been working on bringing it more
up to date.

        --- Erik

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.humor.puns
From: bph@gov.nt.ca (Byron Hynes)
Subject: Re: Streets named after programming languages
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 04:28:23 GMT

>A certain well known (in his time) singer requested that a street in Beverly
>Hills be (re) named Rue de Vallee.

My favorite is in Ottawa, Canada, where my granparents lived. There is a
Clyde avenue and a Bonnie Crescent... yes, the corner of "Bonnie & Clyde".

- bph


-- 

=========================================================================
Byron Hynes                                        bph@inukshuk.gov.nt.ca
Yellowknife, NWT, Canada                                    bph@gov.nt.ca

------------------------------

From: gasteiz@freeport.uwasa.fi (Brian Bell)
Subject: Linux Install help needed?
Date: 18 May 1994 16:53:58 GMT
Reply-To: gasteiz@freeport.uwasa.fi (Brian Bell)


I probably started in the wrong place!   I have the dist disks for
debian linux - where can I get some idiot-install instructions -
I mean really basic!?   Or can someone help me (pointers to docs?)
Help!
-- 

===== Meet me in the ravintola! =====

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
From: mdw@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: GNU Manifesto and Lisp window system  was Re: linux unethical ?
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 05:52:39 GMT

In article <2rc4hq$cvd@harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au> acbul1@penfold.cc.monash.edu.au (Andrew Bulhak) writes:
>: file name completion perhaps, terminal-independent display support, and
>: perhaps eventually a Lisp-based window system through which several
>: Lisp programs and ordinary Unix programs can share a screen.  
>
>A Lisp-based window system? Is that still happening?

I believe that the project was dropped in favour of X. Perhaps
GNUbies out there can fill in the details.

mdw

------------------------------

From: rob@bip.anatomy.upenn.edu (Robert G. Smith)
Subject: Re: Making "nice" nicer.
Date: 19 May 1994 05:00:54 GMT

Joel M. Hoffman (joel@wam.umd.edu) wrote:
: On my lowly '386 machine, I find that even with background jobs niced,
: foreground jobs don't get enough CPU time.  For example, as I type
: this, I have povray running  nice'd (level 10), but it's still getting
: over 30% of the CPU time.  

: Likewise, sometimes I want something to run almost to the exclusion of
: everything else (for example, "top -q" if necessary), but no matter
: how much priority I give it, on a busy system it doesn't get enough
: CPU. 

: Is there some way to remedy this?  Or, rather, has someone already
: looked into modifying the scheduler to make nice levels more
: important?

Without modifying the scheduler, there are several possibilities.
Try compiling a C program that has super-user permission
that contains "nice(-20)" and then a "system("...") call that runs
your command.  The "top -q" option does this internally.

You can use combinations of "kill -TSTOP pid" and "kill -CONT pid"
to temporarily stop and restart a process that you want
"lowered" in priority.  It is fairly easy to write a script
to schedule things to your liking using these commands.

I've done this because a job that must run in memory (e.g.
a long slow huge compute-bound math application) slows (itself and
everything else) down by a large factor when it swaps.  My script 
looks at memory usage on the system and "TSTOP"'s my job whenever 
anything else is running, then "CONT"'s it when enough memory us 
available.  

What is needed is a way to "bias" a process or process group
to receive a certain fraction of cpu time, independent of
"load balancing" in the kernel.  This is available
in some other Unix systems and works very nicely.

Rob Smith

------------------------------

From: rob@bip.anatomy.upenn.edu (Robert G. Smith)
Subject: Re: Fortran ?
Date: 19 May 1994 05:02:11 GMT

dave duling (duling@hippo.niehs.nih.gov) wrote:
: Is there an F77 compiler for Linux ?

Check out "f2c", available in slackware.
Otherwise, none officially released.

Rob Smith

------------------------------

From: acg@kzin.cen.ufl.edu (Alexandra Griffin)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.unixware,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: A good NFS server ?
Date: 18 May 1994 06:43:26 GMT

In article <CpC9Fq.I2n@acsu.buffalo.edu>,
Ziniu "Michael" Wei <ziniuwei@acsu.buffalo.edu> wrote:
>I'm concern about the filesystem speed on Linux.  Can anyone give a
>comparison between Ext2fs and the BSD fastfilesystem used in Sun?

I don't have any real numbers, but in comparing my Linux box to a
friend's comparably-equipped FreeBSD machine (both 486dx2/66's with
IDE drives, 16mb RAM), I've notice that disk-intensive operations like
large inter-filesystem recursive copies are slightly faster under
Linux's ext2fs than on freeBSD.  Based on data from the "top" utility,
it seems that Linux tries to use as much free memory as it can for
disk buffers, while BSD has a definite limit on buffer cache (large
amts. of RAM remain free even during 25+ meg file copies).  As for
Linux vs. Sun, the last Sun machine I did much work on was an old Sun
3/60 (pretty slow).  No doubt Linux would beat one of those, but a
modern SPARCstation may be faster (especially with fast SCSI disks).

One major deficiency wrt Linux is its *very* slow NFS service-- it's
presently slower than that on any other Unix implementation I've used.
Can anyone explain why this might be so?
--
______
\    / //////////////////////////////////////////////
 \  / / Alexandra Griffin /// acg@kzin.cen.ufl.edu /
  \/ //////////////////////////////////////////////
-- 
______
\    / //////////////////////////////////////////////
 \  / / Alexandra Griffin /// acg@kzin.cen.ufl.edu /
  \/ //////////////////////////////////////////////

------------------------------

From: acg@kzin.cen.ufl.edu (Alexandra Griffin)
Subject: Solution to serial-terminal problem...
Date: 18 May 1994 07:36:26 GMT

A while back I posted an article describing problems I was having
getting my hard-wired serial terminal to work under Linux (it would
hang after a username was entered until the system was rebooted-- no
passwd. prompt or further response).  Someone, whose name I
unfortunately have forgotten, e-mailed me with a method to kind of
kludge around this by spawning getty from a script instead of from
init.

Anyway, today I found that the real fix was to add the "CLOCAL" flag
to the appropriate line (19200 in my case) in /etc/gettydefs.  This
apparently prevents the getty from attempting to look at any
handshaking lines (carrier detect et al.), and is necessary if you're
using just a 3-wire serial cable.  This flag is *NOT* normally set in
gettydefs (at least for the Slackware distribution I got).  I'm sure
most of you already knew about this, but thought I'd post it just in
case someone else was having the same difficulty.
-- 
______
\    / //////////////////////////////////////////////
 \  / / Alexandra Griffin /// acg@kzin.cen.ufl.edu /
  \/ //////////////////////////////////////////////

------------------------------

From: root@mroh.gun.de (Michael Rohleder)
Subject: Re: Linux on a Toshiba T2200sx?
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 17:30:18 GMT

swampler@noao.edu wrote:
> I've just acquired (for business) a used laptop.  It's a Toshiba T2200sx
> with 4MB RAM and 70MB hard drive.  There's a modem card in it, as well.

> Does Linux work on this beast?  Will it fit (I realize I'll probably have to
> avoid X-windows...)?  Can it drive the modem (very important!)?

> If the answers are all 'yes', is there a particular version of Linux I
> should use?  (I'm assuming the drive is an IDE drive, right?, so I don't
> need the SCSI-interface, nor (unless I want to play with PLIP) the networking
> code...)

I'm running linux on a 2000sx since 0.99.6 and it works great.
X, Plip, modem well just everything works nice.

------------------------------

From: dan@oea.hacktic.nl
Subject: Re: BRIEF/vi Compatible GUI Text Editor
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 22:17:49 GMT

Rob Savoye (rob@Cygnus.COM) wrote:
: whb@rastaban.usc.edu (Win Bent) writes:

:   Also to note, is that unlike the rest of Unix, none of the newer versions
: of crisp past 2.2.e (many years old) have the source released. I personally
: don't like the idea of taking all the source of a decent program proprietary.
: A truly free (GPL'd) systems like Linux shouldn't be ruined by "non-free"
: software. (I don't run motif on Linux either)

Grow up.

-- 
|< Dan Naas        dan@oea.hacktic.nl >|
+--------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: daveh@texlin.minmet.mcgill.ca (Dave Hinz)
Subject: Re: Standard Linux GUI
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 19:21:56 GMT

Edwin Ramirez wrote:
: In article <2rb3e3$bbj@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Highlander,
: tabaer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu writes:
: >Well, OpenLook is freely available, but it's not too hot of an interface
: IMHO.
: >Maybe people can be convinced to standardize in Tcl/Tk, or the Notif
: >project if anything comes of it (not intended as a slam, I just haven't
: >heard if any progress has been made).

:       Having used Tcl/Tk for a while, I would propose it as a standard.  There
: is a large user base and many programs and utilities are available for
: it.  There are also people working on ports for MS-Windows and Macintosh.
:  Also, its creator Dr. Ousterhout has gone to work for Sun, (Tcl/Tk
: related projects).  The software will remain in available freely and it
: is also Motif compliant.

Let's not forget that the industry is now moving towards a Motif variation
called COSE (Common Software Env.) which is improved over Motif.  Applications
conforming to this spcification will b appearing shortly.  It is not free
but should improve over the Windows behaving Motif widgets.
Personally I think Xview (Opnlook) is alright as a place to start but
needs a commitment if developrs are going to adopt it.  It may
technologically be behind the times but the SUN applications are quite
nice by my standard.  The new COSE apps will behave more like the Openlook
apps than the current Motif apps.  I'm all for a free Motif clone, but
it really should follow the improved COSE specification (2 button mouse
support, etc) for gneral acceptance!

Dave H.


------------------------------


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You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:

    Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU

Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
    nic.funet.fi				pub/OS/Linux
    tsx-11.mit.edu				pub/linux
    sunsite.unc.edu				pub/Linux

End of Linux-Misc Digest
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