Subject: Linux-Development Digest #867
From: Digestifier <Linux-Development-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Tue, 28 Jun 94 19:13:06 EDT

Linux-Development Digest #867, Volume #1         Tue, 28 Jun 94 19:13:06 EDT

Contents:
  cobol wanted (Mathias Homann)
  Re: problems with 386SX (Dragos-Anton Manolescu)
  problems with 386SX (Christian Wolf)
  Re: Mach 64 (Henry A Worth)
  Re: How stable is 1.1.x? (Andreas Helke)
  Re: Nfs Buffercache Brok (Ben Eng)
  Re: computer science (Tom Wilson)
  LISP on x86 machines (Ian D. Bruce)
  Re: DOSEMU and Novell (Andrew Anderson)
  Re: computer science (Grant Edwards)
  Re: Quirky idea: Remote Virtual Consoles (Jeff Randall)
  Re: Quirky idea: Remote Virtual Consoles (Byron A Jeff)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: lemmy@eregion.central.de (Mathias Homann)
Subject: cobol wanted
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 16:47:45 GMT

hija,

does anybody know anything 'bout a cobol for *ix, especially linux?

bye,
        Mathias


------------------------------

From: manolesc@imec.be (Dragos-Anton Manolescu)
Subject: Re: problems with 386SX
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 14:49:58 GMT

Christian Wolf (cwolf@track.cslab.tuwien.ac.at) wrote:
:        
: I am using linux and X on a 386SX with 20Mhz and 5 MB RAM for 6 months, and i have problems over problems. (not performance, but bugs). So my question is: Is the 386SX not fully compatible with the 386DX, because friends don't have these problems ......


: Christian Wolf                                        cwolf@cslab.tuwien.ac.at
: Duernbachgasse 2
: A-3252 Petzenkirchen 

No way, I don't think your problems are caused by the CPU. I used Linux on a
386SX/20 and 6Mb RAM and it worked fine, even XFree (don't ask me about the
speed :-) Anyway, the differences between a DX and a SX are only h/w, i.e.
the width of the bus width.

dragos

---
Dragos-Anton Manolescu                       IMEC       
ASP/TCAD Division                            Kapeldreef 75
e-mail: manolesc@imec.be                     B3001 Leuven, Belgium
file://pub.pub.ro/people/dragos/whoami.html  Phone: +32 (16) 281-238

------------------------------

From: cwolf@track.cslab.tuwien.ac.at (Christian Wolf)
Subject: problems with 386SX
Date: 28 Jun 1994 13:44:58 GMT

       
I am using linux and X on a 386SX with 20Mhz and 5 MB RAM for 6 months, and i have problems over problems. (not performance, but bugs). So my question is: Is the 386SX not fully compatible with the 386DX, because friends don't have these problems ......


Christian Wolf                                  cwolf@cslab.tuwien.ac.at
Duernbachgasse 2
A-3252 Petzenkirchen 

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: haw30@eng.amdahl.com (Henry A Worth)
Subject: Re: Mach 64
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 02:36:15 GMT

Someone has put together an unacclerated SVGA driver that will work
with the Mach64. It was announced recently on c.w.x.i386unix 
(which is where XFree86 questions like this should be posted). 
-- 
Henry Worth - henry.worth@amail.amdahl.com
No, I don't speak for Amdahl... I'm not even sure I speak for myself.

------------------------------

From: andreas@orion.mgen.uni-heidelberg.de (Andreas Helke)
Subject: Re: How stable is 1.1.x?
Date: 28 Jun 1994 14:55:44 GMT

Riku Saikkonen (riku.saikkonen@compart.fi) wrote:
: I've been thinking of upgrading to version 1.1.x (22 or perhaps 23 now
: seems to be the current version) of the kernel (I now have 1.0.9).

: How stable is it now? I.e. has anyone found dangerous bugs in it?

: How should I upgrade? I hear that patch13 was broken in some way, and
: the full 1.1.13 sources are there for that reason. So should I get the
: 1.1.13 sources and patches 14-22 (23, whatever)?

I think the 1.1.13 patch had an error in the makefiles which prevented
succesful compilation.

For me the 1.1.22 is the first kernel with flawless ethernet networking.
Up to I think about 1.1.15 I had frequent hangs when using a winsock
telnet program. I tried most of the kernels beginning with a late 0.99pl14
version. Except for my previous network problems they all worked for me.
The patching process produced a corrupt source tree a few times. (I use
patch -p0 from the /usr/src directory as recomended in the kernel README)
I then went back to a original source and applied the patches again.

Andreas
--

Andreas Helke

Institut fuer molekulare Genetik, Universitaet Heidelberg
Im Neuenheimer Feld 230 
69122 Heidelberg

------------------------------

From: ben@zeus.achilles.net (Ben Eng)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: Nfs Buffercache Brok
Date: 28 Jun 1994 10:01:37 -0400

Russell Coker (Russell.Coker@f363.n633.z3.fidonet.org) wrote:
: rr2b+>From: Robert Andrew Ryan <rr2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
: rr2b+>Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 01:28:30 -0400

: rr2b+>2.  On some systems not all the file locking functions are supported.
: rr2b+> (I think it was lockf that wasn't supported on the HP.)

:     That doesn't surprise me.  AFAIK lockf() doesn't work on the latest HPs
: anyway (I was unable to get it to work, but I admit there is a slight
: probability that there was some bug in my code....).

What version of HP-UX were you running on?  I've been running HP-UX
9.01, and all aspects of file locking both on locally mounted
filesystems and NFS filesystems work exactly as expected.  The only
nastiness I have seen is the following scenario:

        *       a process on an NFS client obtains a lock on a file
        *       another process on an NFS client attempts to obtain a
                blocking lock on the file, and it indeed does block
        *       even after the first lock is released, the other
                waiting process is not unblocked to obtain its lock
                until some kind of timeout is reached (on average it
                appears to be in the neighbourhood of 4-5 seconds).

I also tried that scenario under SunOS 4.1.3 and it exhibits exactly
the same behaviour.  Is there something inherent within NFS that
prevents NFS clients from obtaining a blocking file lock immediately
when it is released from another NFS client?

Ben

------------------------------

From: ctwilson@mercury.interpath.net (Tom Wilson)
Subject: Re: computer science
Date: 27 Jun 1994 23:21:07 -0400

In article <cairnss.772540878@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>,
Queenie <cairnss@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> wrote:
>adc@bach.coe.neu.edu (Albert D. Cahalan) writes:
>
>>I would like to know what some of the Linux developers think of their
>>jobs.  I am considering switching my major from electrical engineering
>>to computer science.  What would be important to learn?  What might I
>>end up doing?
>>--
>
>Is someone getting paid for Linux?  Sign me up too.  

not yet....keep watching NOVELL though ;-)
 
>Have you considered a nice middle-ground major
>like electrical-computer engineering?

Actually, a CS degree with extra hardware emphasis is a good thing
these days...

>For a programming job (entry level)  you need to know C++

Not entirely true....it's a plus (ouch), but the company I
work for doesn't use it yet, and probably won't until there's
a standard (ANSI, preferably), and it's fairly well available
from PCs to mainframes.  (or our MVS and VM/CMS revenues fall
away...I think VSE can still live with C and assembly :-)  We hired 
dozens of C programmers last year, and have added quite a few this year.

>(in 1994.  By the time you get a degree everyone will be
>using something else:  Murphy's Law), and
>you need to be able to demonstrate your ability to handle 
>>30,000 line projects.  Many companies look for a diverse

If your company doesn't have people doing source management...I
will admit that 30,000 lines is a bit smallish for source management,
unless there's lots of those 30,000 line 'projects'.

>background, it's not enough to know C++ and UNIX, you should
>be proficient in at least three (at least one that the interviewer
>has never heard of, and two that he has) other operating systems

I agree with diversity (helped me), but the unknown business
could be looked on as a bluff...sure would be here.

>(MS-DOS doesn't count unless you are looking for a loser job).

It still makes money, and might be just what it takes for a foot
in the door...after all, the prime factors are experience and
trainability (so you can learn to support the platforms you didn't
do any academic work on).  People scoff at it, but there's a helluva
lot of COBOL and Fortran still out there, still making money, some 
of it just waiting to be maintained/enhanced...I'm just glad that
it's not *me* doing this :-)

>I know of a company that supports 20 different Operating systems,
>not to mention architectures, for their software.  They don't
>hire anyone unless they can C++ Up/down/across/sideways in a
>portable fashion.  Of course, you don't really need any of that.

We write C in a portable fashion for the above-mentioned mainframes,
Win32 (will probably give way to Chicago, NT, and Cairo eventually), 
NT, OS/2, working on Chicago, Macs, 4 gazillion unixes, etc (HPUX is 
our development host for the portable stuff...it's impossible to be
entirely portable).  We dropped Primos and AOS a few years ago 
development-wise, but still support what users we still have.  The one
thing you shouldn't go out of your way for is 16 bit developement...it
really *is* dying.  We developed our own object-oriented systems for 
things that others do in C++.  (until there's a well-supported standard)
By the way, we're not alone with respect to inhouse languages.

>You have to talk your way through the interview "Yeah I can
>write 40,000 lines a day, no problem."  Once you have the job,

let's not exaggerate :)

>you need to learn how to operate a good internet News reader,
>and remember how to log-in after the fifth Absolute-tonic.

no comment...(oops, guess I just did)

>" -- hic -- er, well the reason that the project is delayed, is
>well,-- hic -- er, I don't know how they expect us to finish
>anything on these 'slow' SPARC 10's."

they *are* slow compared to a lot of workstations...our HP's run 
rings around SPARCs, as do our Alphas, MIPS, etc..
 
>You might end up killing your liver with booze, 
>and wishing your hands didn't cramp so much.

You might wish for a substance abuse program....or a company that
that cares enough to have one...scarce, I admit.
 
>A Happy CS major, works at Denny's, programs in her spare time,
>and writes her best code for FREE.  Just remember "they don't pay me enough
>to write GOOD code."

A happy CS major *should* write code for the joy of it....if you can't
enjoy it as a student, you'll absolutely hate it as a job.
 
>P.S. Yeah, so what if I'm jaded, I work on computers.

Funny, I do too...I don't *feel* jaded....of course, I've only been doing
this for a living for a few years now...guess I don't have your experience
yet.

>The opinions expressed above are not my opinions. 
>My opinions are derived from AT&T source code.  In fact
>you need a licence to read this letter.

shucks....bring the handcuffs ;-)

> "UNIX is a trademark of AT&T."

not any more....try USL

>-- 
>carinsj@vampyre.colorado.edu         | What do 7, 11, and 438479857 have in
>common?  Send a self-addressed stamped envelope to 'PRIMES, PO BOX 17986,
>Boulder, CO 80308, for your official prime number.        Inquire within.

-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
|  Tom Wilson                      |  "I can't complain, but sometimes  |
|  ctwilson@rock.concert.net       |   I still do."                     |
|                                  |                -Joe Walsh          |

------------------------------

From: ian@comet.milkyway (Ian D. Bruce)
Subject: LISP on x86 machines
Reply-To: ian@comet.milkyway
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 15:06:07 GMT

I'm looking for advice on putting up a full Common Lisp (CLOS and all) on an X86
machine running Linux (or other PC Unix). Pointers or real examples welcome!



------------------------------

From: andersoa@news.db.erau.edu (Andrew Anderson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: DOSEMU and Novell
Date: 28 Jun 1994 02:26:43 GMT

James B. MacLean (jmaclean@fox.nstn.ns.ca) wrote:
: In article <2ulg8s$2ps@blackbird.db.erau.edu> andersoa@news.db.erau.edu (Andrew Anderson) writes:


: >I had an idea on getting 2 ethernet cards to work with DOSEMU so that it
: >can access a Novell *Netware* (for the picky person who keeps pointing that
: >out! ;) file server without triggering the intruder lockout.  I have
: >to wait until tomorrow to test this for sure, but I'll let you know what
: >I find out.

: We'll all be interested in your results.

: >Ok, with all that said, how about enableing the ports that the second 
: >ethernet card uses so that DOSEMU can access it directly, bypassing
: >linux entirely?  Is there any reason that I shouldn't be able to do this?

: The method you require is possible via a Silly Interrupt Generator located
: at:
: tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/ALPHA/dosemu/private/devel/SIG.tgz
: This gives DOSEMU the ability to be informed when hard interrupts occur as 
: most NICs that I know of need.

I'll try this next.  I tried enabling the range of ports from 0x260 - 0x330,
and sure enough, no go.

: >I had previously tried compiling DOSEMU with all references to eth0 changed
: >to eth1 so that it could co-exist with linux, but with no success.

: Rob mentioned that there is a bit more to it than this and I believe he is 
: waiting for us to do a bit of cleanup on the interrupt and ports calls.

Any idea what time frame? :) Just kidding...you guys have done a
tremendous job with the screen updates in 0.52.  That was one of the few
barriers to me getting the go-ahead with development on my "little"
project down here.

: >I think I'll have to play with the NET.CFG and try to figure out how to
: >get the odi drivers to load (had trouble with it before, but I'll try 
: >again).  This method should be akin to enableing port 0x378 so that
: >DOSEMU can access the printer port, right?
: >I'd appreciate hearing from anyone using the odi drivers already,
: >because I hate having to re-invent the wheel! :)

: Hmm, pdether loads in DOSEMU now and allows you to load your typical:

: lsl
: pdether
  ^^^^^^^  I loaded the odi driver that came with the card (Etherexpress)
           here, and it couldn't find the card...I may try this driver
           also to see if that works better, after I see if the the SIG program
           solves my problems.
: ipxodi
: netx

: combo, and serves me fairly well at this end. I believe you wish to replace 
: can say that it did work. Ofcourse as expected, no sharing with Linux on 
: that card. 

Well right now if I can't get one machine to run multiple sessions, it looks
like I'll have to arrange a cluster of machines dedicated to handling
incoming telnet DOSEMU sessions.  Have one machine as the main connect
point that rsh's to the others using a UUCP-type locking system to know
which machine is avialable for an emulation session.  I'd rather sacrifice
a card in a machine than dedicate a machine to just running DOSEMU. :(

A' testing I will go!

Andrew
--
|===========================================================================|
|  Andrew Anderson                              andersoa@erau.db.erau.edu   |
|  Novell Network System Administrator          andersoa@bart.db.erau.edu   |
|  Linux System Administrator                   andrew@wilbur.db.erau.edu   |
|                                                                           |
| I don't speak for ERAU, and God knows I don't want them to speak for me!  | 
|===========================================================================|

------------------------------

From: grante@reddwarf.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: computer science
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 02:53:44 GMT

Albert D. Cahalan (adc@bach.coe.neu.edu) wrote:

: I would like to know what some of the Linux developers think of their
: jobs.  I am considering switching my major from electrical engineering
: to computer science.  What would be important to learn?  What might I
: end up doing?

If you want to do embedded or real-time software developement stick
with EE.  Most companies won't hire CS majors to do that kind of
stuff.  I would recommend staying with EE, but take a lot of CD
courses (stay in school an extra year, if you can).  I was an EE,
but took language theory, OS courses, compiler construction, data
structures, and so on.  Other than that my emphasis was in
microprocessors and digital electronics.  When I graduated, I could
get a job doing hardware or software, and I have done both in the past
10 years.

There is a _lot_ of software in cars, televisions, test equipment,
airplanes, modems, disk drives, disk controllers, telephone equipment,
you name it.  Most of it is written by people with engineering
degrees.  At all of the companies that I'm familiar with, you are
better of with an engineering degree than with a CS degree.  

The people with CS degrees are "programmers" or "systems analysts" and
are on the same pay structure as the drafters, technicians, and others
without 4 year degrees.  The people who write software but have
engineering degrees are "Design Engineers" and are on the engineering
pay structure.  It may not be fair but CS grads are second class
citizens at most of the companies that I'm familiar with.  Some or the
CS grads are much sharper than some of the engineering grads, but "if
you don't have an engineering degree, you ain't an engineer" is a
pretty common attitude.

I don't want to sound elitist, but IMHO, engineers get better pay,
more opportunities (managers are often ex-engineers), and have more
choices when they graduate.

Keep in mind that my experience is with companies that manufacturing
hardware (ranging from missile launchers, to cellular phones, to golf
carts, to process control equipment).  The software is mostly
embedded, real-time stuff.  If you go to places that write database
applications, I'm sure it's a different story.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I feel better about
Rosemount Inc.                                |world problems now!
                                              |
grante@rosemount.com                          |

------------------------------

From: randall@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jeff Randall)
Subject: Re: Quirky idea: Remote Virtual Consoles
Date: 27 Jun 1994 05:39:16 GMT
Reply-To: jrandall@uiuc.edu (Jeff Randall)

byron@gemini.cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) writes:

>I meant for it to support multiple VC's. In fact if it worked properly
>it would look and act exactly like the Linux console.

A suggestion to prevent re-writing the wheel... 

grab any of the avialable Telnet packages available for DOS.

In particular, CUTCP and NCSA Telnet both support multiple sessions from the same
keyboard (switching with Alt-N and Alt-l).  Grab one of 'em and a packet driver
and you're all set.

-- 
JRandall@uiuc.edu - CP-ASEL/AMEL,IA,CFI-AIM - THIS IS _NOT_ CCSO'S OPINION!!!
                                               If It were, It would've had a
The Marching Illini WWW Home Page               more important name on it. =)
is without a home!  Mail me if you can help.

------------------------------

From: byron@gemini.cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Quirky idea: Remote Virtual Consoles
Date: 28 Jun 1994 20:59:37 GMT

In article <2ulom4$cq5@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Jeff Randall <jrandall@uiuc.edu> wrote:
-byron@gemini.cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff) writes:
-
->I meant for it to support multiple VC's. In fact if it worked properly
->it would look and act exactly like the Linux console.
-
-A suggestion to prevent re-writing the wheel... 
-
-grab any of the avialable Telnet packages available for DOS.
-
-In particular, CUTCP and NCSA Telnet both support multiple sessions from the same
-keyboard (switching with Alt-N and Alt-l).  Grab one of 'em and a packet driver
-and you're all set.

Jeff, it's just not the same.

I don't want to telnet into the machine. I want my alt and ctl keys to act
exactly the same way on the RVC as on a real VC. I want selection.

When I sit down at the RVC it should look and act exactly the same as the
console attached to the Linux box.

NCSA telnet isn't close.

Thanks for the suggestion.

BAJ
-- 
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel - And Using Linux!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------


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