Subject: Linux-Development Digest #847
From: Digestifier <Linux-Development-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Mon, 20 Jun 94 17:13:08 EDT

Linux-Development Digest #847, Volume #1         Mon, 20 Jun 94 17:13:08 EDT

Contents:
  TripleDAT - Driver available??? (Ulrich Hund)
  Re: IPX Netware Protocol (Lewis Perin)
  Re: Disk-compression for Linux (Kai Dupke)
  Re: DOSEMU and Novell (Alan Cox)
  Re: 1.1.20 - Mosaic 2.4 broken? (Alan Cox)
  Re: assembly language & Linux (ATTN!) (Wallace Roberts)
  Hard disks limited to 16 heads? (Oystein H. Olsen (Biology))
  Re: anybody working on a MULTICAST kernel? (Urs Thuermann)
  Re: IDE PERF. PATCH SECURITY HOLE (Eberhard Moenkeberg)
  Re: DOSEMU and Novell (Mark Evans)
  Re: DOSEMU and Novell (Mark Evans)
  Re: IPX Netware Protocol (Byron A Jeff)
  Zilog SCSI controller chip used to drive my CDROM. (Jerry Geis)
  OpenGL implementation
  Re: Hard disks limited to 16 heads? (Onno Hovers)
  Re: Support for modem based on IBM's MWAVE chip??? (Michael W. Small)
  Re: IDE PERF. PATCH SECURITY HOLE (David Wright)
  Re: Disk-compression for Linux (Alan Cox)
  Re: sockets+SIGIO? (Alan Cox)
  Re: SCSI NCR drivers (Harri Valkama)
  NCSA Mosaic breaks under 1.1.20 (Jon Green)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: hund@inf.fu-berlin.de (Ulrich Hund)
Subject: TripleDAT - Driver available???
Reply-To: hund@inf.fu-berlin.de
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 13:52:09 GMT

Hi,

 is there anybody who has written a TripleDAT - driver for Linux or intends to
do so? Is there anybody who needs one besides me?
I would like to use the TripleDAT as a Streamer and a D/A-converter --- this 
should be possible. 

Ulli

===================================================================
Ulrich Hund * Derfflingerstr. 17A * 12249 Berlin * (0 30) 772 41 00
===================================================================


------------------------------

From: perin@mail.med.cornell.edu (Lewis Perin)
Subject: Re: IPX Netware Protocol
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 10:05:10 EST

In article <Cro18F.Lq@pe1chl.ampr.org> rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) writes:
>From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen)
>Subject: Re: IPX Netware Protocol
>Date: Sun, 19 Jun 1994 22:31:26 GMT

>In <2u27qe$h5n@seralph0.essex.ac.uk> peddmv@sunlab40 (Peddlesden M J) writes:

>>Can someone tell me if the IPX/SPX networking protocol has been
>>implemented in the networking support of Linux?

>>What I would like to be able to do is to link my Linux box up
>>to the DOS/Netware Lite lan I have running at home.....

>>Comments? (hehe except for - change all your machines to a
>>decent OS like Linux <G>)

>You can access Netware from dosemu, where you can load the usual
>Netware client software.
>IPX is in the Linux networking, but SPX and NCP aren't, so you can't
>do it directly from Linux.

This granted, shouldn't it be possible to use IPX like UDP at the socket 
level, i.e. without DOSEMU in a "native" Linux program?  If so, can anyone 
tell me how, including what level of the kernel might be needed?  (These are 
probably naive questions, as the June 4 NET-HOWTO (v 2.0) offers no 
encouragement on this score.)

Thanks very much,


      __          perin@med.cornell.edu (212)746-2946
 |   |_  \    / : Lew Perin
 |__ |__  \/\/  : Home: (201)435-2679

------------------------------

From: dupke@koma.han.de (Kai Dupke)
Subject: Re: Disk-compression for Linux
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 22:25:43 GMT

albayrak@cc.helsinki.fi wrote:

:       I would like to discuss about on-fly disk compression. My
:       opinion is that implementing DoubleSpace(R) and Stacker(R)
:       -type compressing file-system is one of the most important
:       future enhancements needed for Linux.

:       
:       3. Would it be better to implement whole new file-system
:          rather than compress data through some existing
:          file-system (like ext2) by using a large file as an compressed
:          'disk' (that's how Stacker and DoubleSpace does it).

:       4. Is there any compression-algorithms (sources?) suitable to
:          task?

Hi Ali,

i think that there is the 'double'-patch which include a disk compression
like You want. For this You should give it a chance or a mail to the
author.

:       Thanks for your interest.

:       -Ali-

Greetings kai, dupke@koma.han.de

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: DOSEMU and Novell
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 13:33:49 GMT

In article <2tuu3f$ght@blackbird.db.erau.edu> andersoa@news.db.erau.edu (Andrew Anderson) writes:
>Can you go into more detail on this?  Are you proposing to setup the Linux
>box with its own IPX network number?  Or are you referring to TCP/IP?

With its own IPX network number, and with each node address a magic number
so it appears the Linux box is a gateway to a (huge) network

Alan



------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: 1.1.20 - Mosaic 2.4 broken?
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 13:36:09 GMT

In article <1994Jun19.080017.1982@kshome.ruhr.de> karsten@kshome.ruhr.de (Karsten Steffens) writes:
>After going from 1.1.19 to 1.1.20 Mosaic 2.4 is obviously broken. I cannot
>connect anymore to any www-server; all of them tell me the following:

Yep.. I believed a book not the BSD sources and changed one error code. Mosaic
took offence to this (rightly). 1.1.21 should have this fixed.

Alan


------------------------------

From: robertsw@agcs.com (Wallace Roberts)
Subject: Re: assembly language & Linux (ATTN!)
Date: 20 Jun 1994 08:39:52 -0700

In article <2tnhmr$9bb@klaava.Helsinki.FI> torvalds@cc.Helsinki.FI (Linus Torvalds) writes:

        [ ...snip happens... ]

>On an
>AlphaPC the device drivers shouldn't be that bad due to it using a
>PC-type bus and devices.  But I expect 64 bits to make for some
>interesting changes. 

yes.

i just ported some s/w from hpux + solaris to an alpha running osf/1.

under the osf/1 cc compiler, the sizeof operator produces a size_t
(naturally... :-) which is a 64-bit value (unsigned long).  some system
routines expect an int (a 32-bit value) instead of a size_t, so if you
pass them a sizeof-generated value & no function prototype is visible,
BOOM.

also, the structure padding rules are different on a 64-bit machine, as
you might well imagine.

i understand, however, that gcc for the alpha is configurable wrt sizes,
so you may be able to circumvent this little "challenge"... :->

gears,
ye wilde ryder
--
robertsw@agcs.com | 86 cr250 "dirt devil"    83 v65 magna "animal"
"E Pluribus Unix" | 79 it250 "mr. reliable"
"Criminals (especially tyrants) prefer unarmed victims."
"Ignorance can be cured; stupidity, on the other hand, is hereditary."

------------------------------

From: oystein@bimcore.emory.edu (Oystein H. Olsen (Biology))
Subject: Hard disks limited to 16 heads?
Date: 20 Jun 1994 16:23:21 GMT
Reply-To: oystein@bimcore.emory.edu

I have a 540 Mb hard disk from Dell that is configured for 32 heads,
524 cylinders, and 63 sectors. The kernel complains about using more
than 16 heads and cannot use the drive. I then reduced the heads to 16
and doubled the cylinders to 1028. Now, fdisk and several programs at 
boot complain about using more than 1024 cylinders. The warning says that
some program might crash. Fdisk also display odd boundary messages. Reducing
the cylinders to 942 and increasing sectors to 70 generates complaints about
using more than 63 sectors....

So, back to the initial problem, why does the kernel (hd.c) limit the number
of heads to 16?

Oystein Haug Olsen
oolsen@biology.emory.edu



------------------------------

From: thuerman@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (Urs Thuermann)
Subject: Re: anybody working on a MULTICAST kernel?
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 16:37:37 GMT

terjeve@ifi.uio.no (Terje Vernly) writes:

>With a BIG smile, taylor@stimpy.eecis.udel.edu (Howard "the Duck" Taylor) wrote:

>> has anyone stared work on a multicast kernel patch?  I know of
>> sunos kernels with this ability, and sgi ships their systems
>> with mutlicast support...

>I started implementing the IP-Multicast extensions some time ago, and I
>hope to have a working multicast-kernel ready by mid-July.

What is IP-Multicast?

Urs

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Jun 1994 01:37:46 +0200
From: Eberhard_Moenkeberg@p27.rollo.central.de (Eberhard Moenkeberg)
Subject: Re: IDE PERF. PATCH SECURITY HOLE


Hello Rob and all others,

on 17.06.94 pe1chl wrote to All in USENET.COMP.OS.LINUX.DEVELOPMENT:

p> In <c9108932.771832337@sage.newcastle.edu.au> c9108932@sage.newcastle.edu.au
p> (Simon Ferrett) writes:
p>
>> rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) writes:
p>
>>> In <1994Jun14.174453.28689@unlv.edu> ftlofaro@unlv.edu (Frank Lofaro)
>>> writes:
p>
>>>> NO ONE BUY A SEAGATE 1239A. ITS CRAP! (it even got bad sectors, yeah,
>>>> on an IDE drive (!), after only one year!)
p>
>>> I have enough experience with Seagate ST-225's and ST-238's to not even
>>> consider buying any product from this company the rest of my life....
p>
>> I have a seagate ST3655A and it works absolutely fantastically...
>> I dont think seagate is a bad compay at all - maybe you just made a couple
>> of bad choices?
p>
p> I have heard from others that current models are not as bad as it was
p> before.  However, I just don't give my hard-earned money to this company
p> anymore.  (after it has given me crap for my money spent earlier)
p> This is just my opinion and I won't change it in the foreseeable future.
p> However, I don't mind if anyone else buys disks from Seagate.  I don't even
p> mind if they throw their money in the sea.

In my opinion, Seagate is the "technology leader" today. Their drives are
faster, make less (and better ;-) noise, keep cooler than others.

I use a ST-1239A (had the same problems as above two years ago - now the
drive works good since than, after re-formatting), two ST-3550A and
one ST-3655N. Now I am looking for a Barracuda (either ST12550N or
ST15150N) - those beasts rotate with 7200 rpm and are cheaper than
"second row" technology.

5 years warranty and a MTBF longer than the rest of my life is
nothing special today, but they give it, too.

Greetings ... Eberhard


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: evansmp@mb52112.aston.ac.uk (Mark Evans)
Subject: Re: DOSEMU and Novell
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 16:10:29 GMT

Rob Janssen (rob@pe1chl.ampr.org) wrote:
: In <1994Jun17.123318.11252@uk.ac.swan.pyr> iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox) writes:

: >In article <CrJH7z.KH@aston.ac.uk> evansmp@mb52112.aston.ac.uk (Mark Evans) writes:
: >>This depends on what the SERVER is happy with. However I belive it is
: >>the case that NT can actually do this. Not sure how it does it though,
: >>possibly you need a NLM loaded on the server for it to allow a multi-
: >>user client.

: >Na.. its not that hard. What you have to do is make your Linux machine a 
: >network not a host. Then you have 2^47 different machines on your internal
: >network - that should be adequate I hope.

: How do you do that from a NETX or VLM running in a DOS box? (dosemu)
: You may use either packetdriver+PDETHER+IPXODI or the kernel IPX, at
: your own option, as the IPX layer :-)

You need to rewrite the kernel code. Actually 2^47 possible machines
is many more than you can actually have. You can simply make the "node"
address the pid (32 bits), then you need a 32 bit "network" number, the
IP address springs to mind.


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: evansmp@mb52112.aston.ac.uk (Mark Evans)
Subject: Re: DOSEMU and Novell
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 16:25:38 GMT

Alan Cox (iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr) wrote:
: In article <2tuu3f$ght@blackbird.db.erau.edu> andersoa@news.db.erau.edu (Andrew Anderson) writes:
: >Can you go into more detail on this?  Are you proposing to setup the Linux
: >box with its own IPX network number?  Or are you referring to TCP/IP?

: With its own IPX network number, and with each node address a magic number

A nice trick would be to be able to assign an IPX network number "automagically",
using the IP address might work in many cases.

: so it appears the Linux box is a gateway to a (huge) network

To undrestand this it helps to understand how IPX works. Try reading
the "router" documentation on ftp.novell.com


------------------------------

From: byron@gemini.cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: IPX Netware Protocol
Date: 20 Jun 1994 18:11:04 GMT

In article <perin.29.0034A6B9@mail.med.cornell.edu>,
Lewis Perin <perin@mail.med.cornell.edu> wrote:
-In article <Cro18F.Lq@pe1chl.ampr.org> rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen) writes:
->From: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org (Rob Janssen)
->Subject: Re: IPX Netware Protocol
->Date: Sun, 19 Jun 1994 22:31:26 GMT
-
->In <2u27qe$h5n@seralph0.essex.ac.uk> peddmv@sunlab40 (Peddlesden M J) writes:
-
->>Can someone tell me if the IPX/SPX networking protocol has been
->>implemented in the networking support of Linux?
-
->>What I would like to be able to do is to link my Linux box up
->>to the DOS/Netware Lite lan I have running at home.....
-
->>Comments? (hehe except for - change all your machines to a
->>decent OS like Linux <G>)
-
->You can access Netware from dosemu, where you can load the usual
->Netware client software.
->IPX is in the Linux networking, but SPX and NCP aren't, so you can't
->do it directly from Linux.
-
-This granted, shouldn't it be possible to use IPX like UDP at the socket 
-level, i.e. without DOSEMU in a "native" Linux program?  If so, can anyone 
-tell me how, including what level of the kernel might be needed?  (These are 
-probably naive questions, as the June 4 NET-HOWTO (v 2.0) offers no 
-encouragement on this score.)
-
-Thanks very much,
-
My understanding is that the upper level protocols of Netware are not
pubclicly available. So while IPX can be put into the kernel (and in fact
is) the code in netx cannot.

DOSEMU seems to be the way to go.

Later,
BAJ

-- 
---
Another random extraction from the mental bit stream of...
Byron A. Jeff - PhD student operating in parallel - And Using Linux!
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332   Internet: byron@cc.gatech.edu

------------------------------

From: geis@se01.elk.miles.com (Jerry Geis)
Subject: Zilog SCSI controller chip used to drive my CDROM.
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 16:05:19 GMT

I have a Media Vision MultiMedia16 sound card and CDROM. MEdia Vision
told me the controller is a Zilog Z0538010VSC. All I need now is 
someone who can translate this into one of the options used in the 
make config so I can get my CDROM to work.

Does anyone know what that would be?

Thanks,
        jerry                   geis@se01.elk.miles.com

PS. Please mail replies to me...

------------------------------

From: hwj@henrik.igk.dth.dk ()
Subject: OpenGL implementation
Date: 20 Jun 1994 18:16:33 GMT

Has anyone implemented OpenGL or a subset of OpenGL for Linux/X11
that is available on the net.


Henrik Wann Jensen
Technical University of Denmark


------------------------------

From: onno@stack.urc.tue.nl (Onno Hovers)
Subject: Re: Hard disks limited to 16 heads?
Date: 20 Jun 1994 17:39:40 GMT

Oystein H. Olsen (Biology) (oystein@bimcore.emory.edu) wrote:
> I have a 540 Mb hard disk from Dell that is configured for 32 heads,
> 524 cylinders, and 63 sectors. The kernel complains about using more
> than 16 heads and cannot use the drive. I then reduced the heads to 16
> and doubled the cylinders to 1028. Now, fdisk and several programs at 
> boot complain about using more than 1024 cylinders. The warning says that
> some program might crash. Fdisk also display odd boundary messages. Reducing
> the cylinders to 942 and increasing sectors to 70 generates complaints about
> using more than 63 sectors....

> So, back to the initial problem, why does the kernel (hd.c) limit the number
> of heads to 16?
This is a limitaition of the BIOS. There is a standard called "enhanced IDE"
that should solve those problems. I don't if there is support for this
standard in linux. Anyway, you should try to format your harddisk under the
following settings:
  cylinders: 1024 
  heads:     16
  sectors:   63
This should get you the maximum of space that's available. Only SCSI
harddisks can have more space. 

> Oystein Haug Olsen
> oolsen@biology.emory.edu

Regards,

--
==============================================================================
    /-------/       / | Onno Hovers [IRCNICK=arrow]
   /       /-------/  | 2nd Year student Physics  
  /       /-------/   | email:  onno@stack.urc.tue.nl
 /-------/       /    | tel. :  013-676622
 Ask for OHware (TM)  | addr.:  Wandelboslaan 105, 5042 PC Tilburg, Nederland 
==============================================================================
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others--G.Orwell  

------------------------------

From: mwsmall@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Michael W. Small)
Subject: Re: Support for modem based on IBM's MWAVE chip???
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 16:41:35 GMT


 
 In article <1994Jun14.191735.24719@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com>, mwsmall@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Michael W. Small) writes:
 
 Could anybody tell me if there is work being done to support modems
 based on DSP chips, such as the MWAVE chip from IBM?  I purchased one
 of the first 'ACE' modems from Best Data Products Corp..  This Voice-
 mail/modem/fax modem board is based on the MWAVE chip.  The card works
 great in a windows environment, no drivers exist yet for solely DOS
 usage, and I'm pretty sure that support under linux does not exist
 either.
 
 Please let me know if anyone has knowledge of either a similar situation,
 or of a possible soloution.
 
 Thanks in advance,
 
 Michael Small
 mwsmall@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
 
        _/_/_/  _/_///  _/_/_/
       /       _/  _/  /    
      _/_/_/  _/  _/  _/_/_/             Michael W. Small
     /       _/  _/      _/              EDS - Delco Electronics Corp.
    _/_/_/  _/_///  _/_/_/               mwsmall@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com

------------------------------

From: dmw@prism1.prism1.com (David Wright)
Subject: Re: IDE PERF. PATCH SECURITY HOLE
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 16:09:53 GMT

>>>>> "FL" == Frank Lofaro <ftlofaro@unlv.edu> writes:

  FL> BTW, the auto-recovery logic DOES NOT WORK on the Seagate 1239A. If I
  FL> turn on any features, and write to the drive, the FS is trashed, even
  FL> if I turn off all the features then sync and reboot.

        Umm, I have a 1239A in my system, and I have been running the IDE
patches for a while. The only enhancement I am using is to set MaxMult to
32 (the drive identifies as supporting up to 64). I don't fiddle with the
interupt override settings. I have yet to see any trouble. Of course, maybe
they "broke" something in later 1239A firmware revisions, as this drive came
out of a customers machine and is like 3 years old (and got 10+ hours a day
use at the customers site).

  FL> NO ONE BUY A SEAGATE 1239A. ITS CRAP! (it even got bad sectors, yeah,
  FL> on an IDE drive (!), after only one year!)

        I agree that the 1239x series drives are not all that hot. And they
DEFINATELY had some bogus firmware revisions. About 2 years ago I went through
SEVERAL drives (like 5 or 6) that would show a wierd "delay" phenomenon during
use. When SCO Unix is loading the kernel it displays a sequence of dots. On
most systems this counts up smoothly. But on these drives it would blast away
at "normal" speed, and then slow to a CRAWL for 2 or 3 secs. Then it would
go back to full speed again. Really wierd. It never really seemed to cause a
problem during daily use though, and all but one of those drives are still in
operation now.

        But personally I would look for a different manufacturer. Say Maxtor.

                                                        Dave
--
  ____________________________________________________________________________
 |        /\ /          | Prism Computer Applications        |  David Wright  |
 |      -/--\--         | 14650 Detroit Ave, Suite LL40      | dmw@Prism1.COM |
 |      /____\          | Lakewood, OH 44107  USA            |  216-228-1400  |

------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Disk-compression for Linux
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 17:39:18 GMT

In article <1994Jun20.075053.28956@news.uit.no> vinter@cs.uit.no (Brian Vinter) writes:
>What is this about compression is proved unreliable ? I have seen high school
>kids PROVE that compression is 100% reliable. It's really not that hard math
>to understand i.e. Huffmann compression. If what you're refering to is
>filesystem add-on's like Stacker and the rest of the MS-DOS and MAC world
>utilities, I'd claim that the unreliability comes from lack of compability
>with existing applications - not from the compression. So if the compression
>was included in the kernel it should be as reliable as any other FS. 

This is partly true. However the bits of information lost per bit error for
a compressed file is much higher than for an uncompressed one.

Alan

------------------------------

From: iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: sockets+SIGIO?
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 17:40:27 GMT

In article <2u41rj$hk1@bambi.zdv.uni-mainz.de> kramer@kph.Uni-Mainz.DE (GNU Software) writes:
>I tried to port a bigger application on LINUX which relies on 
>asynchronous I/O using sockets (in udp namespace) and SIGIO.  So far 
>I could convice LINUX to deliver a signal on the arrival of new data on 
>the the port. Any tips?

SIGIO on sockets isnt in the current kernel. I'm having some odd problems
with sockets dying as the async signal chain gets walked and stuff that
need fixing before I release it to the mob.

Alan


------------------------------

From: hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama)
Subject: Re: SCSI NCR drivers
Date: 20 Jun 1994 17:32:10 GMT

In article <2tn182$sq2@linus.mitre.org> jwagner@mental.mitre.org (John G. Wagner) writes:
>No rush on the drivers, I am not a programmer at heart, so I'll just keep
>my mouth shut and my eyes open for any news.

perhaps a few 'me too' would help? I am sure there are already many of us
who will see these PCI NCR SCSI drivers.

>-- 
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>+       Heck even I don't know what I do, so the company can't.         +
>+         empire isn't a game, it a world ruled by elves! :)            +
>+     Bowling IS a sport, and if you don't believe me, I'll beat'ya     +
>+                  and YES I mean with a BIG stick!! }:@                +
>+          jwagner@mitre.org | John Wagner | PH# (703)883-3740          +
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-harri-
-- 
///// Harri Valkama, hv@uwasa.fi (also NeXTmail welcome)
///// WasaWare Oy Ab, Palosaarentie 23-25, FIN-65200 Vaasa, Finland
///// Telephone: +358 61 317 3365  fax: +358 61 317 3025

------------------------------

From: greenjc@nor2vax.norand.com (Jon Green)
Subject: NCSA Mosaic breaks under 1.1.20
Date: 20 Jun 1994 17:06:14 GMT
Reply-To: GREENJC@norand.com

Sorry I can't be more specific about this.  When running kernel 1.1.20,
NCSA Mosaic refuses to connect to a server.  I don't notice any other
problems with networking, so it may be an application bug.  I don't think
it even tries to connect, because nothing ever shows up in a netstat.
Mosaic returns the error "Server not found or is refusing to serve to you"
(or something close.)  This is the version of Mosaic currently on sunsite,
and I'm running over a SLIP connection.  Let me know if anyone has any
ideas.. Until then I'll run 1.1.19. :)

Jon Green                                       Norand Data Systems
greenjc@norand.com                              Application Software Division

------------------------------


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