Subject: Linux-Development Digest #747
From: Digestifier <Linux-Development-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Development@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sun, 22 May 94 12:13:04 EDT

Linux-Development Digest #747, Volume #1         Sun, 22 May 94 12:13:04 EDT

Contents:
  Re: Anybody working on BSD dump porting? (Matthew Dillon)
  Re: Anybody working on BSD dump porting? (Matthew Dillon)
  Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix, (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix, (Rob Newberry)
  Re: Linux Intrntl & Auto Cfg project (Brandon S. Allbery)
  Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix, DOS 7 (Rajat Datta)
  BusLogi 445S and DMA Channel (Herve Soulard)
  Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix, DOS 7 (Brett Bourbin)
  Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix, DOS 7 (Harvey J. Stein)
  Re: PCI or VL bus SCSI Host Adapters (Doug McIntyre)
  Re: Distributions considered harmful (lilo (SpRiNg 94 GpA 3.64))
  Re: Anybody working on BSD dump porting? (Goran Larsson)
  Re: PCI or VL bus SCSI Host Adapters (Bao Chau Ha)
  Phillips CD ROM driver? (Edwin Khachatourian)
  question about linking with dld (manuel Toledo-Quinones)
  Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix, DOS 7 (Mark A. Davis)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dillon@apollo.west.oic.com (Matthew Dillon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Anybody working on BSD dump porting?
Date: 20 May 1994 16:35:09 -0700

In article <2rgsdb$1c7@panix.com> gmerin@panix.com (Gary Merinstein) writes:
:>I'm surprised, given your nickname, that you haven't already tried this
:>yourself....  ;-)
:
:rdump deals with raw data / raw disks; sort of a bit-by-bit image (you 
:can boot & mount a dump tape as tho it were a disk) can you do these 
:things with tar and/or cpio?
:
:-- 
:*** gmerin@panix.com  "..here pigs will fly, lightning will strike twice,  ***
:***   mci:  489-6979       hell will freeze over, and eventually,          ***
:***   ci$ 74035,1232         things will get really interesting..."        ***

    I did that once (not on a Linux system)... I never did it again.  I do not
    believe it is even possible on a linux system.  No, I'll boot from a floppy
    thank you!

                                        -Matt

-- 

    Matthew Dillon              dillon@apollo.west.oic.com
    1005 Apollo Way             ham: KC6LVW (no mail drop)
    Incline Village, NV. 89451  Obvious Implementations Corporation
    USA                         Sandel-Avery Engineering
    [always include a portion of the original email in any response!]


------------------------------

From: dillon@apollo.west.oic.com (Matthew Dillon)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Anybody working on BSD dump porting?
Date: 20 May 1994 16:39:00 -0700

:In article <2rhdpn$r7r@bosnia.pop.psu.edu> barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr) writes:
:In article <2rh32n$7fu@apollo.west.oic.com>,
:
:>    * dumps are not portable across architectures or filesystems.
:
:False.
:
:--Dave
:-- 
:"WAIS is the Pinto of the Information Superhighway" - me

    Hmm.. you may be right there, though I would really hesitate to try it
    across machines with byte-ordering differences.  I much prefer tar.

                                -Matt

-- 

    Matthew Dillon              dillon@apollo.west.oic.com
    1005 Apollo Way             ham: KC6LVW (no mail drop)
    Incline Village, NV. 89451  Obvious Implementations Corporation
    USA                         Sandel-Avery Engineering
    [always include a portion of the original email in any response!]


------------------------------

From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix,
Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 23:59:57 GMT

misch@misch@elara.fsag.de (Michaela Merz) writes:

>In article 6kd@louie.udel.edu, chavey@bambam.cis.udel.edu (Laurent Chavey) writes:
>> Do not forget novell is on our side, TO NOT LET 
>>MICROSOFT NAD BILL GATE OWN THE COMPUTER WORLD. Lets all fight to
>>not have another giant dictate the computer future.

>Oh no! You're fighting fire with fire. Don't forget, Novell is allready
>the number two in business. And they are very aggressive in the marketing
>strategy. MIC*SOFT is of course a target. But we're NOT on the same side 
>with Novell. Novell is not a bit better. 

Sorry, but Novell is much better, if in nothing else but that they support
the open concept of Unix.  This says a whole lot to many of us...

-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: rob@eats.com (Rob Newberry)
Subject: Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix,
Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 20:25:52 UNDEFINED

>>Oh no! You're fighting fire with fire. Don't forget, Novell is allready
>>the number two in business. And they are very aggressive in the marketing
>>strategy. MIC*SOFT is of course a target. But we're NOT on the same side 
>>with Novell. Novell is not a bit better. 

>Sorry, but Novell is much better, if in nothing else but that they support
>the open concept of Unix.  This says a whole lot to many of us...

Sorry, again, but Novell doesn't support the open concept of Unix.  What they 
say is, if it's not ours, it isn't Unix -- that's not very open to me.  When I 
talked to the guys from Novell about linux at FOSE here, all they would say is 
"linux cannot be Unix unless they are paying us royalties".  Not much open in 
that statement.

Rob



------------------------------

From: bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery)
Subject: Re: Linux Intrntl & Auto Cfg project
Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 00:01:55 GMT

In article <2rj4a6$9rq@nic.umass.edu>, cmay@titan.ucs.umass.edu (CHRISTOPHER M MAY) says:
+---------------
| Linux isn't for the feint of heart when it comes to computer knowledge.
| It's really for those who want to push the envelope of what their PC
| can do, under a multitasking Unix-like OS.
+------------->8

To make it short and unsweet:  if you want an operating system For Hackers
Only, use *BSD.

Does it *offend* you that someone might want to make a *ix usable without
having to be a Unix God?  Why?  Why do you need to argue against *any* attempt
to produce a non-hackernix, even if it can't/won't prevent you from using a
hackernix if that's what you prefer?  (Not that I want to hear the answer; I'm
not a psychoanalyst.)

I think that, if you don't like what someone is doing with Linux (or *BSD or
etc.), you should do something else, not try to prevent them from doing it.

++Brandon
-- 
Brandon S. Allbery         kf8nh@kf8nh.ampr.org          bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org
The FUDs at Microsoft are shouting "Kill The Wabi!"

------------------------------

From: rajat@austin.ibm.com (Rajat Datta)
Subject: Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix, DOS 7
Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 17:54:49 GMT

In article <Cq2CvG.GHn@hunan.rastek.com>,
>If this "Corsair" products is real, and is based upon the Linux kernel at all,
>we all know that Linus himself says that it would be virtually impossible,
>or at least very difficult, to port the Linux kernel to another processor.
>

Linus doesn't say this...  Well, not the virtually impossible part.
It's always difficult (non-trivial) work doing a proper port to a new
architecture.

This is not to confirm, deny or say anything about what Novell has in
mind.  I have no idea of what they have in mind.




-- 
Rajat Datta
rajat@austin.ibm.com

------------------------------

From: soulard@corto.inria.fr (Herve Soulard)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.386bsd.development,comp.os.386bsd.questions,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: BusLogi 445S and DMA Channel
Date: 22 May 1994 12:34:36 GMT
Reply-To: soulard@sor.inria.fr


Hello,

I've just bought a BusLogic BT445S and I've a problem with the
DMA channel. When I load the BusLogic DOS Manager, it reports that
no DMA channel is used. The same thing is reported by the NetBSD
installtion disk. I've read many times the Installation Guide, and
nowhere I've seen the switches to use to set the DMA channel.

Does somebody know how to solve this problem ?

Here are the characteristics of my system :

        Orchid SuperBoard 486 DX2/66 VLB
        AMI Bios 06/06/92
        20 Mbytes of RAM
        
        DC-200 Promise ISA IDE Cache Controller
        with 4 MBytes of cache
        250 Mbytes Maxtor IDE Disk
        340 MBytes Maxtor IDE Disk
        
        BusLogic 445S
        BIOS Version 4.72
        FIRMWARE 3.37
        40 MBytes SCSI Disk with ID 2
        (1GBytes DEC disk is ordered)
        
        Cirrus Logic 5426 VLB Video Card
        2Mo of video memory.
        

The SCSI card works fine with DOS and with Linux 1.1.11. The
only problem is that the DMA channel is not set.

I've also tried the DMA test from the BIOS of the BT445S
(g=dc00:9 under debug) and it reports no errors.

So what is wrong ?

Thanks for any future help.

                Herve Soulard.

PS: I would prefer email answers.

------------------------------

From: brett@avis.Visix.COM (Brett Bourbin)
Subject: Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix, DOS 7
Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 19:18:20 GMT

In article <1994May19.225058.28899@kf8nh.wariat.org>, bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) writes:
|> 
|> Given the limitations on what Novell can do to Linux without violating the
|> GPL or giving away code they don't want to make public (or can't, in the case
|> of something like Looking Glass --- or Wabi, if that's the MS-Windows
|> emulation they're using), that makes sense anyway.

Corsair is more than an application suite.  Novell is changing the Linux OS
do "different things".  They took my original Looking Glass port I did to
Linux and then started to add their "extras".
--                             __
Brett Bourbin           \  / /(_  /\/  11440 Commerce Park Drive
  brett@visix.com        \/ / __)/ /\  Reston, Virginia 22091
  ..uupsi!visix!brett    Software Inc  703.758.8230

------------------------------

Subject: Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix, DOS 7
From: hjstein@sunset.huji.ac.il (Harvey J. Stein)
Date: 22 May 94 15:53:33

In article <1994May19.162204.10197@cs.cornell.edu> mdw@cs.cornell.edu
(Matt Welsh) writes:

   In article <2rfvq5INNrlp@ope001.iao.ford.com>
   ekimmina@pms709.pms.ford.com (Eric Kimminau) writes:
   >Heres my .02. This is a huge HUGE bonus for the Linux community.
   >Granted Novell's GUI and DOS 7.0 are their property, and will not be
   >in the public domain, but more than likely they will make the patches
   >available on the net,

   I find it highly unlikely that Novell's support for running MS-Windows
   apps were integrated into the Linux kernel. Therefore, it's quite possible
   that many of these "fantastic" features that we're hearing about won't
   be freely distributable at all. Novell is only required to distribute
   code for free that is based on GPL code, e.g., any modifications to the
   Linux kernel itself. This does not entail that the entire system will be
   placed under the GPL.

Except that they probably won't write dosemu or wine from scratch.
Since (as far as I know) both dosemu & wine are under the GPL, we get
all their fixes & enhancements there too.

--
Harvey J. Stein
Berger Financial Research
hjstein@math.huji.ac.il

------------------------------

From: merlyn@icicle.winternet.com (Doug McIntyre)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: PCI or VL bus SCSI Host Adapters
Date: 22 May 94 13:06:46 GMT

heiser@world.std.com (Bill Heiser) writes:
>Neither the hardware FAQ nor the kernel config stuff mentions
>anything about support in LINUX for VL or PCI bus disk controllers.
>I'm particularly concerned about ADAPTEC support.

>Are there any plans to support these so we can use the
>faster busses for SCSI support?

Yes, there are plans for the development of drivers for the Adaptec 
2{7,8,9}42 series of controllers. They are all basicly the same, and
probably can use the same driver. The problem comes with the guy doing
it is graduating (hell time), and has to deal with things like programming
a RISC sequencer chip that is part of the AIC-7770 chip..

I don't know why anybody automaticly thinks of VL as soo much faster. I did
some time comparisions with various VL bus and ISA bus controllers with 
a fast SCSI-II hard drive (Fujitsu 1.2G), and the one that one had the
top speed was still the Adaptec 1542CF. Granted, a couple of them came
real close, like only 20-30k/sec slower :)
These did not include the Adaptec 2842 though, so I don't know if that
would have gained anything. I haven't gotten to play with one yet :(
--
Doug McIntyre                           merlyn@icicle.winternet.com

Write to info@winternet.com for more information about Winternet's
Internet services and dialups. 

------------------------------

From: lilo@slip-1-57 (lilo (SpRiNg 94 GpA 3.64))
Subject: Re: Distributions considered harmful
Date: 22 May 1994 13:37:03 GMT

On 17 May 1994 10:35:49 GMT, Russell Nelson (nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com) wrote:

> We've got at least four different package conventions (SLS, Slackware,
> Debian and Yggdrasil).  Why?  No good reason I can see.  FTP sites
> carry these different distributions, most of which differ only slightly.

Russell,

What we have is four separate, non-overlapping support systems.  That's
GOOD.  Without any disrespect, the Debian release could go belly-up at any
time after it is released.  Peter MacDonald was pulled away from SLS for an
extremely long time and has only recently come back into the fray, with a
release that some would say lacks stability (for the moment!).

Having separate distributions is a good thing.  It provides a safety net.

> I feel that there is need, and room, for two Linux distributions, one
> conservative, and the other radical.  The conservative distribution is
> probably the harder, and potentially more money-making, distribution
> to do.  It is marketed at Linux "users".  People who don't want to
> have to fiddle.  People who are willing to pay for the software to
> "just work".  So the conservative distribution has its work (and
> profit) cut out for it.

Why try and nail Linux distributions down and connect them all together?  It
will only ossify them and give us less variety and safety.

> And there's plenty of money to be made on the radical distribution,
> because it's obvious that some people out there want the latest and
> greatest, and they're willing to pay for it.  "Who has the latest CD"
> is the subject of a recent Usenet message.

> And multiple distributions are not good, because they tend to fragment
> the market.  The Linux market is small enough as it is -- we don't
> need to make it smaller!  If I'm running Slackware, I don't feel like
> I can purchase SLS's support package.  Or if I've bought Yggdrasil's
> CD-ROM, can I install an slackware package?  And not break everything?

No, you can't.  But you can always reinstall.  Which I've had to do going
from MCC to SLS to MCC to Slackware, etc.  Nonetheless, I've always gone
with what *I* considered to be the most current, most useful distribution. 
And everyone has the right to make the same choices.

> And Adam's not doing himself any favors by not creating an FTPable
> Yggdrasil distribution.  In the free software market, you create
> business by giving away your software to create a need for your
> services.  The less you give away your software, the less your
> services are needed.

If it's a free market, he's free to market (and define) his product in
whatever way he sees fit.  If one Linux distribution takes the market by
storm, it can only help the distribution of the others, if they are
considered quality work....  Variety means something for everyone.  ;)

> And Debian, while it has the support and name of the FSF, is just
> plain not needed.  Much, much better to fix the problems with
> Slackware, SLS, or Yggdrasil.

Not so!  Each and every one of these distribution has pioneered slightly
different approaches and features.  If the various authors get requests for
features of other distributions, they'll incorporate them.

> We should start with a merger between SLS and Slackware.  Send your
> requests for same to Peter and Patrick, imploring them to cooperate
> for the betterment of all.  Yes, they've had words, but they should
> still be able to work together.

They shouldn't merge the releases!  We need the redundancy much more than we
need some sort of "standardization" in this area.

> So who am I to be giving out all this free advice?  Why, just someone
> who's been supporting himself for 2.5 years by selling support for
> free software.

That's good, and we all appreciate your efforts.  But let's not ossify the
distribution of Linux!  :)


lilo

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: hoh@lorelei.approve.se (Goran Larsson)
Subject: Re: Anybody working on BSD dump porting?
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 13:00:26 GMT

In article <2rjhmk$m8s@apollo.west.oic.com> dillon@apollo.west.oic.com (Matthew Dillon) writes:
>:In article <2rhdpn$r7r@bosnia.pop.psu.edu> barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr) writes:
>:In article <2rh32n$7fu@apollo.west.oic.com>,
>:>    * dumps are not portable across architectures or filesystems.
>:False.
>    Hmm.. you may be right there, though I would really hesitate to try it
>    across machines with byte-ordering differences.

If I try to restore a dump tape (produced on a 386) on my SPARCstation
I get these messages and everyting looks fine with the dump.

Note: Doing Byte swapping
Note: Doing Quad swapping

>                                                    I much prefer tar.

* can't handle paths longer than 100 chars (portably)
* can't handle special files (like in /dev) (portably)
* can't handle files with holes
* can't handle multiple volumes (portably)
* slow

-- 
 Goran Larsson              Phone: +46 13 155535  FAX: +46 13 160533
 Approve AB                        +46 589 12810       +46 589 16901
 hoh@lorelei.approve.se          ...!uunet!mail.swip.net!lorelei!hoh

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
From: habaoch@eng.auburn.edu (Bao Chau Ha)
Subject: Re: PCI or VL bus SCSI Host Adapters
Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 15:06:26 GMT

In article <merlyn.769612006@winternet.com> merlyn@icicle.winternet.com (Doug McIntyre) writes:
>
>I don't know why anybody automaticly thinks of VL as soo much faster. I did
>some time comparisions with various VL bus and ISA bus controllers with 
>a fast SCSI-II hard drive (Fujitsu 1.2G), and the one that one had the
>top speed was still the Adaptec 1542CF. Granted, a couple of them came
>real close, like only 20-30k/sec slower :)
>These did not include the Adaptec 2842 though, so I don't know if that
>would have gained anything. I haven't gotten to play with one yet :(

Have you tried the Buslogic BT445S yet?  I have both and the BT445S
is a hair faster.

Anyway, the real limitation of the AHA1542CF is the 16 meg. DMA limit.
OS/2 cannot use memory above 16 meg, except for swap space.  Linux,
I believe, use double buffering(?).  I do like the AHA1542CF's
flexibility.

Bao

------------------------------

From: edwink@orff.jpl.nasa.gov (Edwin Khachatourian)
Subject: Phillips CD ROM driver?
Date: 21 May 1994 01:40:42 GMT

        Hi, this is my first post in this newsgroup. I have been a UNIX user
for about a year. But I am a newbie to Linux. I have a Phillips CD ROM on my
486 at home, and I just bout a copy of the Yggdrasil Linux on CD. My problem
is that my Linux boot disk will not recognize my CD ROM, so I can not go 
through the installation process. 

        By the way My CD ROM has its own controller card (non SCSI). Is there
anything out there, or has anyone developed any drivers for Phillips. Any
help/tip will be greatly appreciated.

        Thank you in advance,
        Edwin Khachatourian
        Jet Propulsion Laboratory
        edwink@orff.jpl.nasa.gov
        /(o\
        \o)/

------------------------------

From: manuel@engc.bu.edu (manuel Toledo-Quinones)
Subject: question about linking with dld
Date: 22 May 1994 15:39:37 GMT

Hi!

I am writing a program that links a module at runtime using dld. My
problem is that the module uses math library functions that are not
used in the main program, and thus not linked at compilation time.
This causes a run-time crash. For example, if my module uses 'exp()'
but no reference to this function appears in the main routine, the program
dumps core. 

What is the proper way of dealing with this linking problem? I tryed
linking the module with the math library by using '-r' linker option
without sucess (dld complains about multiply defined symbols).

Thanks very much,
manuel





------------------------------

From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: 32-bit Novell desktop OS combines Unix, DOS 7
Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 12:14:04 GMT

gt8134b@prism.gatech.edu (Robert Sanders) writes:

>bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery) writes:

>>In article <1994May19.192201.2639@uk.ac.swan.pyr>, iiitac@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox) says:
>>+---------------
>>| This is why I find the whole thing so improbable in some ways. There is no
>>| way Novell could add Stacker support to the Linux kernel environment without
>>| in effect releasing a GPL'd stacker equivalent. Given that stacker are
>>+------------->8

>>I suggest you go back and study the latest userfs announcement on c.o.l.a.

>I suggest you study the reams of flaming that occurred the last time
>thought that the GPL had a single, defensible interpretation.  One
>interpretation, and I'm not saying it's the only one or even a right
>one, was that any program which was meant to specifically interface with
>a GPL'ed program and no other was therefore part of a derived work (the
>program+the GPL'ed work).

I think you misunderstood what Brandon was refering to.  I think he meant 
that Novell might use the Linux compression stuff, not stacker, and that
a recent posting in COLA might refect this.
-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------


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