Debian bug report logs - #1678 w3-el: no install-info; elisp files; mailcrypt Package: w3-el ; Reported by: Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca; 17 days old. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Message received at debian-bugs: From chiark.chu.cam.ac.uk!ian Mon Oct 16 18:24:15 1995 Return-Path: Received: from pixar.com by mongo.pixar.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0t50lL-0006GpC; Mon, 16 Oct 95 18:24 PDT Received: from artemis.chu.cam.ac.uk by pixar.com with SMTP id AA16148 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for debian-bugs-pipe@mongo.pixar.com); Mon, 16 Oct 1995 18:23:50 -0700 Received: from chiark.chu.cam.ac.uk by artemis.chu.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #33) id m0t51nV-0007u9C; Tue, 17 Oct 95 02:30 GMT Received: by chiark.chu.cam.ac.uk id m0t50l7-0002aOC (Debian /\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.33); Tue, 17 Oct 95 02:24 BST Message-Id: Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 02:24 BST From: Ian Jackson To: debian-bugs@Pixar.com Subject: Re: Bug#1678: w3-el: no install-info; elisp files; mailcrypt CD Rasmussen writes ("Bug#1678: w3-el: no install-info; elisp files; mailcrypt"): > Dirk, thanks for including your explanation of the current packaging > of elisp files. While it clarified the current condition it also > helped me to pinpoint my issue with the treatment of elisp sources. > > I'm not having a fit over this. If debian distributions are to go > against the convention of keeping elisp files as a primary > distribution form for the sake of disk space, I can accept that. If > we are doing to follow the convention of a different language, I find > it unreasonable. > > If for what ever reason we do separate the elisp source files, I would > like to see it stated as a convention to be followed by all elisp > related packages and I would want to ensure that when sources are > installed that they fall into the same directory as the compiled > files. > > I think the example set by the emacs and emacs-el packages is the > correct model to follow. Much as I don't like posting `me too' articles, I agree. The *.el files are necessary in some situations, and having them available should be easy, but not necessary. I think putting them in a separate package achieves this. Ian. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Acknowledgement sent to Ian Jackson : Extra info received and forwarded. Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Information forwarded to debian-devel@pixar.com : Bug#1678 ; Package w3-el . Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Message received at debian-bugs: From sme.siemens.com!cdr Mon Oct 16 14:03:23 1995 Return-Path: Received: from pixar.com by mongo.pixar.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0t4wgt-0006FiC; Mon, 16 Oct 95 14:03 PDT Received: from scr.siemens.com by pixar.com with SMTP id AA26575 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for debian-bugs-pipe@mongo.pixar.com); Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:02:57 -0700 Received: from cons.mountain ([129.73.58.158]) by scr.siemens.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA25275; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 17:03:15 -0400 Received: from localhost by cons.mountain (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19077; Mon, 16 Oct 95 17:03:11 EDT Message-Id: <9510162103.AA19077@cons.mountain> To: Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca Cc: debian-bugs@pixar.com Reply-To: cdr@sme.siemens.com Subject: Re: Bug#1678: w3-el: no install-info; elisp files; mailcrypt In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 16 Oct 1995 15:26:00 EDT." Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 17:03:10 -0400 From: CD Rasmussen Dirk, thanks for including your explanation of the current packaging of elisp files. While it clarified the current condition it also helped me to pinpoint my issue with the treatment of elisp sources. I'm not having a fit over this. If debian distributions are to go against the convention of keeping elisp files as a primary distribution form for the sake of disk space, I can accept that. If we are doing to follow the convention of a different language, I find it unreasonable. If for what ever reason we do separate the elisp source files, I would like to see it stated as a convention to be followed by all elisp related packages and I would want to ensure that when sources are installed that they fall into the same directory as the compiled files. I think the example set by the emacs and emacs-el packages is the correct model to follow. Costa ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Acknowledgement sent to cdr@sme.siemens.com : Extra info received and forwarded. Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Information forwarded to debian-devel@pixar.com : Bug#1678 ; Package w3-el . Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Message received at debian-bugs: From magenta.com!moth Mon Oct 16 13:34:13 1995 Return-Path: Received: from pixar.com by mongo.pixar.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0t4wEe-0006HzC; Mon, 16 Oct 95 13:34 PDT Received: from magenta.com by pixar.com with SMTP id AA24565 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for debian-bugs-pipe@mongo.pixar.com); Mon, 16 Oct 1995 13:33:49 -0700 Received: (moth@localhost) by magenta.com (8.6.12/8.6.4) id QAA19718; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 16:29:11 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 16:29:11 -0400 Message-Id: <199510162029.QAA19718@magenta.com> From: Raul Miller Reply-To: Raul Miller To: Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca Cc: cdr@sme.siemens.com, debian-bugs@Pixar.com In-Reply-To: (Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca) Subject: Re: Bug#1678: w3-el: no install-info; elisp files; mailcrypt Dirk Eddelbuettel: I don't want to take them away from anyone, not even from Emacs specialists. I simply want to have the option of installing them or not. Well, you could delete them. $ (cd /usr/lib/emacs/site-lisp/w3; for x in *.elc; do rm `basename $x c`; done) If I want to read or modify them, I can always grab the source package --- as with any C code. But .el is source code, and we usually hide that from users that want to run binaries from in a .deb package. All I propose is to do the same with elisp code. And that idea seems well represented among debian packages. Here's a quick poll that shows that vm, the example I cited, is not atypical: editors/emacs only .elc files Not precisely -- these are available as a separate package. mail/itimer only .elc files mail/vm only .elc files tex/auctex mostly .elc plus three .el files, In my opinion, this is a bug. The .el files should be available in package form. They are, after all, executable code. [Which is why I'm still not sure I should compress them for w3 -- once compressed they're no longer executable code.] whereas net/w3 el and elc files I suppose I could release a w3-elc which has only the .elc files. Alternatively, I could make it an install-time configuration option to run that line of code that deletes the .el files for which corresponding .elc files exist... Actually, I kind of like this idea -- I could also support compression for those people who want them handy but need to save space. I suspect this will become a much bigger issue once we start having alternative implementations of emacs available. At that point I suspect I'll have to include something like w3's makefile as well [because of byte-code incompatabilities]. -- Raul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Acknowledgement sent to Raul Miller : Extra info received and forwarded. Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Information forwarded to debian-devel@pixar.com : Bug#1678 ; Package w3-el . Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Message received at debian-bugs: From qed.econ.queensu.ca!edd Mon Oct 16 12:26:27 1995 Return-Path: Received: from pixar.com by mongo.pixar.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0t4vB5-0006HDC; Mon, 16 Oct 95 12:26 PDT Received: from post.QueensU.CA (knot.QueensU.CA) by pixar.com with SMTP id AA20530 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for debian-bugs-pipe@mongo.pixar.com); Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:26:00 -0700 Received: from miles.econ.queensu.ca (free2-slip229.tele.QueensU.CA [130.15.126.229]) by post.QueensU.CA (8.6.12/8.6.10+ASH) with SMTP id PAA09684; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 15:26:19 -0400 Received: by miles.econ.queensu.ca id (Debian /\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.33); Mon, 16 Oct 95 15:26 EDT Message-Id: Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 15:26 EDT To: cdr@sme.siemens.com, debian-bugs@Pixar.com Subject: Re: Bug#1678: w3-el: no install-info; elisp files; mailcrypt In-Reply-To: <9510161835.AA00631@cons.mountain> References: <9510161835.AA00631@cons.mountain> From: Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca CD Rasmussen writes: Costa> Elisp folk don't tend to separate the source from the executable the Costa> way people do with C programs. I'm sorry to hear this was done with Costa> VM. I don't want to take them away from anyone, not even from Emacs specialists. I simply want to have the option of installing them or not. If I want to read or modify them, I can always grab the source package --- as with any C code. But .el is source code, and we usually hide that from users that want to run binaries from in a .deb package. All I propose is to do the same with elisp code. And that idea seems well represented among debian packages. Here's a quick poll that shows that vm, the example I cited, is not atypical: editors/emacs only .elc files mail/itimer only .elc files mail/vm only .elc files tex/auctex mostly .elc plus three .el files, whereas net/w3 el and elc files -- Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca http://qed.econ.queensu.ca/~edd ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Acknowledgement sent to Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca : Extra info received and forwarded. Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Information forwarded to debian-devel@pixar.com : Bug#1678 ; Package w3-el . Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Message received at debian-bugs: From sme.siemens.com!cdr Mon Oct 16 11:35:38 1995 Return-Path: Received: from pixar.com by mongo.pixar.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0t4uNu-0006EpC; Mon, 16 Oct 95 11:35 PDT Received: from scr.siemens.com by pixar.com with SMTP id AA16424 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for debian-bugs-pipe@mongo.pixar.com); Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:35:15 -0700 Received: from cons.mountain ([129.73.58.158]) by scr.siemens.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA19461; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:35:23 -0400 Received: from localhost by cons.mountain (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00631; Mon, 16 Oct 95 14:35:16 EDT Message-Id: <9510161835.AA00631@cons.mountain> To: Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca, debian-bugs@pixar.com Reply-To: cdr@sme.siemens.com Subject: Re: Bug#1678: w3-el: no install-info; elisp files; mailcrypt In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 14 Oct 1995 20:08:00 EDT." Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:35:15 -0400 From: CD Rasmussen Separating the .el and .elc files does not sit well with me. If I had to have one or he other, I'd rather have the .el files and decide what to do with them myself. Granted the w3 lisp files are large. Elisp folk don't tend to separate the source from the executable the way people do with C programs. I'm sorry to hear this was done with VM. Costa Subject: Bug#1678: w3-el: no install-info; elisp files; mailcrypt Date: Sat, 14 Oct 95 20:08 EDT To: Debian Bugs From: Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca Package: w3-el Version: 2.2.22 Just installed w3-el and noted that * postinst doesn't call install-info (but the info files are put in /usr/info) * all the elisp files come shipped with w3-el --- is this necessary? I gzipped them all, but had to gunzip w3-sysdp.el. The vm package for example ships only only the compiled elisp code. * w3-el comes with an (old) version of mailcrypt that I had to move away as it collided with mailcrypt.el (3.2) in /usr/local/lib/emacs/site-lisp. -- Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca http://qed.econ.queensu.ca/~edd > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Acknowledgement sent to cdr@sme.siemens.com : Extra info received and forwarded. Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Information forwarded to debian-devel@pixar.com : Bug#1678 ; Package w3-el . Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Message received at debian-bugs: From magenta.com!moth Sat Oct 14 22:40:51 1995 Return-Path: Received: from pixar.com by mongo.pixar.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0t4LoZ-000FPwC; Sat, 14 Oct 95 22:40 PDT Received: from magenta.com by pixar.com with SMTP id AA09000 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for debian-bugs-pipe@mongo.pixar.com); Sat, 14 Oct 1995 22:40:28 -0700 Received: (moth@localhost) by magenta.com (8.6.12/8.6.4) id BAA20557; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 01:35:57 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 01:35:57 -0400 Message-Id: <199510150535.BAA20557@magenta.com> From: Raul Miller Reply-To: Raul Miller To: Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca, debian-bugs@Pixar.com In-Reply-To: (Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca) Subject: Re: Bug#1678: w3-el: no install-info; elisp files; mailcrypt Dirk Eddelbuettel: * w3-el comes with an (old) version of mailcrypt that I had to move away as it collided with mailcrypt.el (3.2) in /usr/local/lib/emacs/site-lisp. On second thought, I'm leaving this in. Not everyone is going to have a /usr/local/lib/emacs/site-lisp/mailcrypt.el If you can tell me where to find the current version, I'll see about including it with the next release of w3-el. However, the right thing for me to do is append w3's directory to the tail end of the load-path. -- Raul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Acknowledgement sent to Raul Miller : Extra info received and forwarded. Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Information forwarded to debian-devel@pixar.com : Bug#1678 ; Package w3-el . Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Message received at debian-bugs: From magenta.com!moth Sat Oct 14 22:36:32 1995 Return-Path: Received: from pixar.com by mongo.pixar.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0t4LkO-000FPwC; Sat, 14 Oct 95 22:36 PDT Received: from magenta.com by pixar.com with SMTP id AA08972 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for debian-bugs-pipe@mongo.pixar.com); Sat, 14 Oct 1995 22:36:09 -0700 Received: (moth@localhost) by magenta.com (8.6.12/8.6.4) id BAA20518; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 01:31:38 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 01:31:38 -0400 Message-Id: <199510150531.BAA20518@magenta.com> From: Raul Miller Reply-To: Raul Miller To: Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca, debian-bugs@Pixar.com In-Reply-To: (Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca) Subject: Re: Bug#1678: w3-el: no install-info; elisp files; mailcrypt Dirk Eddelbuettel: Just installed w3-el and noted that * postinst doesn't call install-info (but the info files are put in /usr/info) Oops, I'll fix this for the next release. * all the elisp files come shipped with w3-el --- is this necessary? I gzipped them all, but had to gunzip w3-sysdp.el. The vm package for example ships only only the compiled elisp code. I've been waffling about this. I think I ought to provide the .el files but gzipped. There's some significant documentation in those files. * w3-el comes with an (old) version of mailcrypt that I had to move away as it collided with mailcrypt.el (3.2) in /usr/local/lib/emacs/site-lisp. I'll remove this for the next release. -- Raul ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Acknowledgement sent to Raul Miller : Extra info received and forwarded. Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Information forwarded to debian-devel@pixar.com : Bug#1678 ; Package w3-el . Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Message received at debian-bugs: From qed.econ.queensu.ca!edd Sat Oct 14 17:07:51 1995 Return-Path: Received: from pixar.com by mongo.pixar.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0t4GcI-000604C; Sat, 14 Oct 95 17:07 PDT Received: from post.QueensU.CA (knot.QueensU.CA) by pixar.com with SMTP id AA23242 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for debian-bugs-pipe@mongo.pixar.com); Sat, 14 Oct 1995 17:07:27 -0700 Received: from miles.econ.queensu.ca (free1-slip215.tele.QueensU.CA [130.15.126.215]) by post.QueensU.CA (8.6.12/8.6.10+ASH) with SMTP id UAA27907 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 1995 20:07:45 -0400 Received: by miles.econ.queensu.ca id (Debian /\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.33); Sat, 14 Oct 95 20:08 EDT Message-Id: Date: Sat, 14 Oct 95 20:08 EDT To: Debian Bugs Subject: w3-el: no install-info; elisp files; mailcrypt From: Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca Package: w3-el Version: 2.2.22 Just installed w3-el and noted that * postinst doesn't call install-info (but the info files are put in /usr/info) * all the elisp files come shipped with w3-el --- is this necessary? I gzipped them all, but had to gunzip w3-sysdp.el. The vm package for example ships only only the compiled elisp code. * w3-el comes with an (old) version of mailcrypt that I had to move away as it collided with mailcrypt.el (3.2) in /usr/local/lib/emacs/site-lisp. -- Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca http://qed.econ.queensu.ca/~edd ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Acknowledgement sent to Dirk.Eddelbuettel@qed.econ.queensu.ca : New bug report received and forwarded. Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Report forwarded to debian-devel@pixar.com : Bug#1678 ; Package w3-el . Full text available. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ian Jackson / iwj10@thor.cam.ac.uk , with the debian-bugs tracking mechanism This page last modified 07:43:01 GMT Wed 01 Nov