From:     Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>
To:       Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu
Date:     Sun, 8 May 94 15:13:44 EDT
Subject:  Linux-Misc Digest #83

Linux-Misc Digest #83, Volume #2                  Sun, 8 May 94 15:13:44 EDT

Contents:
  Re: ** New version Beholder TNG Free (Copylefted) RMON Ethernet monito (BARRY TITMARSH)
  Mail Order Linux Workstation Vendors (E. Robert Tisdale)
  Re: Term works, but not txconn or tupload (Dylan Smith)
  Re: idiot's guide to unix/linux (Dylan Smith)
  Re: Gateway 2000 Might Install Linux for You (Bill Bogstad)
  Making a living; Novell news; GPL and shared libraries... (an55603@anon.penet.fi)
  Linux CD-ROMs? (DL83-08)
  Re: Term works, but not txconn or tupload (Bob Paauwe)
  Re: Jana 3 CD yet ?? (Thomas M Gorman)
  Re: Novell is trying to Sell a derivative (H. Peter Anvin N9ITP)
  Re: Cdroms.. what NOW?  (no Cd-rom a month.. no LGX, etc) (Rajat Datta)
  Re: Novell & Linux: Why? (Dennis Flaherty)
  Re: idiot's guide to unix/linux (Timothy Murphy)
  Re: Who is Linux targetting? (David Dyer-Bennet)
  Re: Matrox Video card with X. (DavidPelo)
  Re: Cdroms.. what NOW? (no Cd-rom a month.. no LGX, etc) (Dan Wilder)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 07:40:29 EST
From: BARRY TITMARSH <BTITMARS@ESOC.BITNET>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Re: ** New version Beholder TNG Free (Copylefted) RMON Ethernet monito

 I found that the ftp site stated in the announce was not! allowing
anonymous ftp.  I have mailed the poster of this announce for guidence
and hope that the anonymous access denyed on dnpap.et.tudelft.nl
is corrected so we can all get the file pub/btng/btng-5.0.tar.gz


------------------------------

From: edwin@maui.cs.ucla.edu (E. Robert Tisdale)
Subject: Mail Order Linux Workstation Vendors
Date: Thu, 05 May 94 02:32:30 GMT

I have been keeping a list of "Mail Order Linux Workstation Vendors"
which I post from time to time in this and other newsgroups.

None of the three major mail order companies (Zeos, Dell and Gateway)
that I contacted was willing to install Linux on any of the machines
that they sell so it is unclear which of their machines will run Linux
and the X Window System.  Gateway 2000 is willing to entertain the idea
of installing Linux on the machines that they sell but Kim Kirkpatrick
(g2kkim@gw2kbbs.com) needs help to convince Marketing at Gateway that
they should do this.  If you would like Gateway to install Linux for
people who request it, please send Kim a short (about 25 lines) email
message telling him why this would benefit Gateway and their customers.

All of the vendors listed below will install Linux on the machines that
they sell but provide varying amounts of support for it.  I have not dealt
with any of these vendors except 20/20 Technologies so I cannot recommend
them to you.  Both SW Technology and Fintronic USA, Inc. were mentioned in:

        "Born free, Linux is a useful beast", Eamonn Sullivan,
        PC Week, April 18, 1994, page 77.

It's not clear whether Eamonn Sullivan (esullivan@linux.pcweek.ziff.com) 
is actually recommending them or not.  Perhaps people who have dealt with
them will post a followup to this article and tell us more about them.

Three vendors (20/20 Technologies, SW Technology and Fintronic USA, Inc.)
sell 486 based workstations which run Linux and the X Window System.
In order to get a feel for the prices these vendors were charging,
I asked each vendor to give me a quote for the following configuration:

*       66 MHz 486DX/2 with 3 VESA Local Bus slots
*       8 MB 70 ns System Memory
*       32 bit VESA Local Bus IDE Hard/Floppy Controller and I/O card
*       425 MB 3.5" 12 ms. Hard Disk Drive
*       1.44 MB 3.5" Floppy Disk Drive
*       32 bit VESA Local Bus, 1280x1024, 1 MB Super VGA graphics card
*       15" 0.28 mm dot pitch Non-Interlaced color monitor
*       Mini-tower case and power supply
*       101 key keyboard
*       3 button high resolution serial mouse
*       Linux, X, Open Windows, LaTeX, TeX, C++, etc.
*       Two year warranty

Enjoy, Bob Tisdale (edwin@cs.ucla.edu)

                20/20 Technologies
                1786 Westwood Boulevard
                West Los Angeles, CA 90024
                Tel: (310) 441-8855
                     (800) 486-2020
                Fax: (310) 441-8869
                Net: ahou@netcom.com
                Price: $1649
                Contact: Moujan Ahouraian

                SW Technology
                251 West Renner Suite 229
                Richardson, TX 75080
                Tel: (214) 907-0871
                Net: swt@netcom.com
                Price: $1599
                Contact: Marvin Wu

                Fintronic USA, Inc.
                1360 Willow Rd., Suite 205
                Menlo Park, CA 94025
                Tel: (415) 325-4474
                Fax: (415) 325-4908
                Net: linux-sales@fintronic.com
                Price: $1628
                Contact: Larry M. Augustin

------------------------------

From: dylan@formalhaut (Dylan Smith)
Subject: Re: Term works, but not txconn or tupload
Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 13:33:31 GMT
Reply-To: dylan@vnet.ibm.com

Jason M. Spangler (jasons@gateway.cis.ysu.edu) wrote:

: Nope, I already had that...  I ran linecheck, and the only characters it
: had trouble with were 17 and 19.  Anyway, I got tupload to work, but only
: in one direction (from the remote system (the Sun) to my Linux system.  If
: I try the other way, term goes into timeout/linenoise heaven.  I'm thinking
: that it's the terminal server I go through (called Xyplex, I don't know if
: that's a brand name, or just a name).

Ahhhh! The Spider Systems Xyplex Terminal server. As soon as you log in
to your remote machine, send a Break character and type SET SESSION PASSALL,
then resume the connection and start term. Set session passall makes the
link 8-bit clean.


































: -- 
: ____________________________________________________________________
: ..Jason Michael Spangler                      jasons@cis.ysu.edu...
: ..Finger for PGP public key          Youngstown State University...
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--
#include <disclaimer.h>
Internet: dylan@vnet.ibm.com  | JANET: dylan%vnet.ibm.com@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay

------------------------------

From: dylan@formalhaut (Dylan Smith)
Subject: Re: idiot's guide to unix/linux
Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 13:56:08 GMT
Reply-To: dylan@vnet.ibm.com

Helmut Geyer (geyer@polyhymnia.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de) wrote:

: And why do you think people would use it? In fact the FAQs and HOWTOs are
: 'searchable databases', just grep them for the keywords.

I put my Linux system online for people to dial into, and left text files
in the the guest directory where they would first log into. The typical
DOS user response who had never seen UNIX before was:

guest> dir
readme          commands-to-use

guest> type readme
readme is ./readme
guest> type commands-to-use
commands-to-use is ./commands-to-use
guest> dir/w
dir/w: command not found
guest> logout

I ended up putting a quick noddy message in /etc/motd telling DOSsers
how to use the More command. Slackware doesn't even come with this: if
a new to UNIX user manages to install it at all (unlikely) the user is 
unlikely to be able to know how to read the FAQ's! If you want people
to move from DOS to Linux you need some very simple help (which is not
available at present) and a sympathetic ear. Let's face it - what
we think is easy to understand may not be for someone else. Consequence
of your attitude - people frightened off Linux and spread the word that
it is difficult to use (when it's not really any harder than DOS when you
think about it).

--
#include <disclaimer.h>
Internet: dylan@vnet.ibm.com  | JANET: dylan%vnet.ibm.com@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay

------------------------------

From: bogstad@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Bill Bogstad)
Subject: Re: Gateway 2000 Might Install Linux for You
Date: 6 May 1994 11:23:03 -0400

In article <1994May5.162356.26167@kf8nh.wariat.org>,
Brandon S. Allbery <bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org> wrote:
>In article <1994May04.131019.6347@taylor.wyvern.com>, mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis) says:
>+---------------
>| myself <root@strangebrew> writes:
>| >Don't buy computers from Gateway 2000. When I was shopping for mine, I was
>| 
>| That was not my experience.  Aside from the long phone waits and being forced
>| to purchase "bundled" Microshaft crap, the service was excellent and the
>| support great.  Sorry!
>+------------->8
>Gateway had severe support problems some time ago (> 1 year?).  They addressed
>the problem eventually, and now their support is fairly good.

        Not according to the Ed Foster (editor of "InfoWorld") in the May
2nd, 1994 pg. 51 issue.  He says they got better for a while, but the
support problems have escalated again.  I don't have any experience either
way with Gateway.  I'm only relaying this information.

                                Bill Bogstad
                                bogstad@cs.jhu.edu

------------------------------

From: an55603@anon.penet.fi
Reply-To: an55603@anon.penet.fi
Date: Thu,  5 May 1994 02:58:24 UTC
Subject: Making a living; Novell news; GPL and shared libraries...


I have one anonymous question:

        How does the use of shared libraries affect the GNU General Public
License?
        What if one provides a kernel with required libraries as shared
libraries? Are binaries referencing those shared libraries still covered
under the GPL?
        (More devious...?)
        What if your application even contains a stub shared library of
libc.so (or whatever library is required for one's application) - how
does this affect your status with GPL?
        If the Linux system and source are on a separate cdrom and you
only charge for its duplication costs? Can you then go off and charge
for a separate executable (without source) using said shared libraries?
        Does one have to go to such lengths to make a living with Linux?
PS If this is a FAQ, I apologize.
=========================================================================
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized,
and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.
Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin@anon.penet.fi.

------------------------------

From: s21008@cc.ntnu.edu.tw (DL83-08)
Subject: Linux CD-ROMs?
Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 15:56:26 GMT


Excuse me for asking such a question, but I am new to Linux, and am
interested in getting a Linux CD-ROM. I have seen an advertisement for SLS
at $99 plus $15 S/H, but then I have seen AT at $25 (?) and $5 S/H. Why is
there such a difference in prices? Can anyone suggest a good company?

Thank you!
--

------------------------------

From: bpaauwe@fiw020.fm.intel.com (Bob Paauwe)
Subject: Re: Term works, but not txconn or tupload
Date: 5 May 1994 20:40:31 GMT

In article <2q6qed$48s@news.ysu.edu>,
Jason M. Spangler <jasons@gateway.cis.ysu.edu> wrote:
>Patrick Reijnen (patrickr@sci.kun.nl) once said:
>: In your termrc's try:
>
>: escape 17
>: escape 19
>: ignore 17
>: ignore 19
>
>: Probably some other 'escape' sequences have to be left out but this you have
>: to experience by just trying it. Don't ask me why they have to be left out.
>: The only thing I know is that almost always, with this kinbd of problems
>: they cause the timeouts.
>
>Nope, I already had that...  I ran linecheck, and the only characters it
>had trouble with were 17 and 19.  Anyway, I got tupload to work, but only
>in one direction (from the remote system (the Sun) to my Linux system.  If
>I try the other way, term goes into timeout/linenoise heaven.  I'm thinking
>that it's the terminal server I go through (called Xyplex, I don't know if
>that's a brand name, or just a name).

I use it with a Xyplex and I need to escape 28 and 255.  Linecheck
didn't always report both of these as needing to be escaped.  The
remote ends are one of Sun Sparc 4.xx, IBM AIX, and NCR SVR4.  For
all three platforms, escaping 28 and 255 works fine for tupload,
txconn works fine on the IBM and Sparc (The NCR says it can't open
the display, I don't know why yet).  

For this to work I do the following steps:

        1.  At the Xyplex prompt>  rlogin <machine name>
        2.  <break> (character 28) back to the Xyplex prompt and 
                type set session passall <return> 
                         resume <return>
        3.  Now I can start term

I think using rlogin instead of connect make the connection 8 bit
versus 7 bit.

With other PC based remote X software I've had to escape other
characters (like 17 & 19) but not with Linux/term.

Bob
-- 
             ----------------------------------------------------
             - Bob Paauwe             bpaauwe@pcocd2.intel.com  -
             - Sr. Software Eng.                                -
============== Intel Corp.  Folsom, CA                          ================

------------------------------

From: tgorman@mtholyoke.edu (Thomas M Gorman)
Subject: Re: Jana 3 CD yet ??
Date: 8 May 1994 16:45:02 GMT

And I thought I was a bad speller ;-). It's true that efforts to
provide a good product at a reasonable price deserve some 
tolerance, but repeatedly broken promises try anyone's 
patience. How many times can you expect the teacher to buy
that "dog ate my homework" story?

- Tom


------------------------------

From: hpa@ahab.eecs.nwu.edu (H. Peter Anvin N9ITP)
Subject: Re: Novell is trying to Sell a derivative
Reply-To: hpa@nwu.edu (H. Peter Anvin)
Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 23:53:59 GMT

Followup to:  <1994May5.181748.27347@eurom.rhein-main.de>
By author:    misch@elara.fsag.de
In newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc
> 
> You should not merge phantasy and your view of the things with the facts. And
> there are currently not that many people (including myself) who know
> the truth. 
> 

I presented a hypothesis -- which happens to be the one I think is the
most probable -- and then analyzed it.  I stated it was a hypothesis
("what I think is most probable..."); I didn't say it was The
Truth[TM].  Anyway, I am *disturbed* at the people who don't know
anything either, but want to start lawsuits and protest movements...
that attitude in general is dangerous to any commercial developments
for Linux.

Although I think it important to protect the GPL, I also think that we
should give Novell the benefit of the doubt; I don't see a reason to
start flaming them until we have any evidence at all of infringement.

        /hpa



-- 
INTERNET: hpa@nwu.edu               FINGER/TALK: hpa@ahab.eecs.nwu.edu
IBM MAIL: I0050052 at IBMMAIL       HAM RADIO:   N9ITP or SM4TKN
FIDONET:  1:115/511 or 1:115/512    STORMNET:    181:294/101
To the memory of Richard Nixon we will now dedicate 18 1/2 minutes of silence.

------------------------------

From: rajat@austin.ibm.com (Rajat Datta)
Subject: Re: Cdroms.. what NOW?  (no Cd-rom a month.. no LGX, etc)
Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 23:12:34 GMT

In article <2qblnh$5gb@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Byron Thomas Faber <bf11620@ehsn9.cen.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>Ok.. I've heard alot of complaints about Jana.  Also, LGX stinks.
>
>Is there ANYBODY left who delivers on time?  I mean is there any decent
>current CDrom I can order that is MADE right now.
>
>I mean.. do they HAVE the cdroms on hand.
>
>As far as I can tell no cd's for linux really exist (at this rate).
>
>Byron Faber
>-- 
>`Playing this disk at loud volume may permanently damage your speakers or
>other sound components.'                               -LFO
>                               b-faber@uiuc.edu


TransAmeritech seems to have a pretty good reputation among the people
on the net.  A friend of mine ordered from Infomagic and they said he
would have the CD in 3-4 days.  He's supposed to get it tomorrow.  The
big difference between the two seems to be that TransAmeritech ships
Slackware and NetBSD, while InfoMagic contains all of tsx-11 (which
includes Slackware, I presume).

Since I personally haven't bought from either, I don't recommend
either of them.

-- 
Rajat Datta
rajat@austin.ibm.com
IBM Power Personal Division

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.unix.misc
From: dennisf@denix.elk.miles.com (Dennis Flaherty)
Subject: Re: Novell & Linux: Why?
Date: Sun, 8 May 1994 04:53:49 GMT

In article <DHOLLAND.94May6165929@husc7.harvard.edu>,
David Holland <dholland@husc7.harvard.edu> wrote:
> 
> c_farer@inca.gate.net's message of 4 May 1994 11:31:05 -0400 said:
> 
>  > >: (EMACS: Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping)
>  > >
>  > >  EMACS: Enormous Memory Access Crashes System
>  >
>  > EMACS: Eventually Mallocs All Core Storage (This claims to have been fixed.)
> 
> EMACS: Emacs Makes A Computer Slow

EMACS: Escape Meta Alt Control Shift

-- 
Dennis T. Flaherty              Home: dennisf@denix.elk.miles.com
Flaherty Nanobreweries          Work: dennisf@se01.elk.miles.com
     Oatmeal Stout: It's the Right Thing to Drink!

------------------------------

From: tim@maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy)
Subject: Re: idiot's guide to unix/linux
Date: 8 May 1994 18:09:50 +0100

dholland@husc7.harvard.edu (David Holland) writes:

>One could conceivably rig things up to have an interface very similar
>to man, especially if you used Lynx as the viewer.

Have you looked at xman?


-- 
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

------------------------------

From: ddb@terrabit.mn.org (David Dyer-Bennet)
Subject: Re: Who is Linux targetting?
Date: Sun, 8 May 1994 15:40:55 GMT

shyamal@seas.smu.edu (Shyamal Prasad) writes:

>Linux is aimed at people like me - I want my good, powerful but
>abstruse programming environment at home on my PC. I hate DOS, which
>will not even let me do "more *.c" or even "more junk.c".....or let me
>have two "terminals" at the same time. 

You can do "more junk.c" on stock dos, but you're right that it won't
handle multiple files.  You can even do "less junk.c", if you've
installed less, and therefore could do "less *.c".  And I can do "list
*.c", which in some ways is more powerful than "less".

Under Windows, I can have two terminals just fine.  I can also do that
under DOS, using DesqView.

Nevertheless I agree in general; it's just that I don't think you
picked very good examples.

>I am prepared to spend lots of
>time on learning the intricacies of a UNIX system so I can speed up
>work I do later. Most people do NOT need this level of "power", most
>people really need to write a letter or use a spreadsheet. They need
>DOS/Windows. 

I absolutely agree here.  Another point -- a lot of people seem
uninterested in learning to do their work "better".  I've encountered
this a number of times even among programmers.
-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, proprietor, The Terraboard    4242 Minnehaha Ave. S.
ddb@network.com, ddb@terrabit.mn.org              Minneapolis, MN 55406
Don't waste your time arguing about allocating          +1-612-721-8800
blame; there'll be enough to go around.             Fax +1-612-724-3314

------------------------------

From: davidpelo@aol.com (DavidPelo)
Subject: Re: Matrox Video card with X.
Date: 8 May 1994 13:12:05 -0400

The amount of miss-information in this thread is astounding...

Matrox's now discontinued "Impression 1024" card IS an S3 based design.
I know because I'm using one purchased directly from MATROX.  It's a fast
card and works well at 1024x768x24bit (win for workgroup 3.11) as well as other
lower resolution/color depths.  I'm also running it under linux X11 at
1024x768x8bit and having no problems with XFree86 Version 2.1 (earlier versions
did give me some problems).  

Although my Xconfig is set up for a ViewSonic 7, I'll gladly provide a copy.
If I get lots of requests, I'll just post it here...

------------------------------

From: danw@hebron.connected.com (Dan Wilder)
Subject: Re: Cdroms.. what NOW? (no Cd-rom a month.. no LGX, etc)
Date: 5 May 1994 17:15:47 -0700

bf11620@ehsn9.cen.uiuc.edu (Byron Thomas Faber) writes:


>Is there ANYBODY left who delivers on time?  I mean is there any decent
>current CDrom I can order that is MADE right now.

Well for all the gripes, everybody I personally know who has ordered
from Trans-Ameritech has gotten prompt service and is happy with what
they received.  Of course it is always a couple of releases behind,
but whadda ya expect when you have a couple of thousand folks involved
one way or another in developing an operating system?  Semi-yearly
releases just wouldn't do it!
---
Dan Wilder

------------------------------


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