Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #585
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Sat, 22 Jan 94 18:15:27 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #585, Volume #1                Sat, 22 Jan 94 18:15:27 EST

Contents:
  Re: LGX Installation (UQAL056@FRMOP22.CNUSC.FR)
  Re: Q: Linux HTML/WWW tools for editing? (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim)
  Re: More help with SLIP/DIP please ? (Pitt Cheang)
  Re: PS/2 Mouse (Uppie)
  Re: Linux as X-Terminal? No! (Mark A. Davis)
  Re: Slackware needs a shadow package! (John F. Haugh II)
  Re: uucp 1.04 - looking for tester, _complete_ (better)version (Christopher Horn)
  Re: uucp 1.04 - looking for tester, _complete_ (better)version (Christopher Horn)
  Re: dos2unix, unix2dos text conversion programs?? (Francois-Rene Rideau)
  Re: CAS for Linux (was Re: Mathematica for Linux) (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
  Re: Fortran compilers for linux? (Alex Ramos)
  Re: Slackware needs a shadow package! (John F. Haugh II)
  Re: Linux Distributions and the Shadow Password Suite (John F. Haugh II)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 09:31:13 EST
Subject: Re: LGX Installation
From: UQAL056@FRMOP22.CNUSC.FR
Reply-To: uqal056@frmop22.cnusc.fr

As i see that an Yggdrasil member is here, I answer a question that
is useful for me and _I think_ for many people.

Does Yggdrasil distribution on CD-ROM supports SBPRO CDROM ?
Can we execute part of the software directly on CD-ROM?
And for those questions what is the version required of the
Yggdrasil CD ROM. Thanks in advance.
DATA.19

------------------------------

From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim)
Subject: Re: Q: Linux HTML/WWW tools for editing?
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 07:40:55 GMT

In article <2hq18m$q54@ulysses.iol.ie>, Barry Flanagan <barryf@iol.ie> wrote:
>Mark Watson (mwa@netcom.com) wrote:
>: Sorry in advance if this is not the *perfect* place for this discussion:
>
>: I am an author (Springer/Verlag, McGraw-Hill).  In addition to commercial
>: writing, I am interested in PD publishing via WWW.  I am looking for tools
>: that let me edit HTML hypertext documents under Linux; I have found Cello
>: and an editor that run under MS-Windows, but obviously I would prefer to
>: do all of my work under Linux/X Windows (who can blame me.. -:) ).
>
>: Thanks in advance to any information on tools, more appropriate 
>: newsgroups, etc.
>
>Check out comp.text.sgml - there is an emacs add-on of some sort, but I 
>don't recall the name or where, sorry.

lynx has an editing facility, and you can switch between source/rendered.
tkWWW also has editing capabilities but I can't get hold of many of its
docs.

>-- 
>Barry Flanagan - <barryf@iol.ie>
> ----
>| Ireland On-Line, West Wing, Udaras Complex, Furbo, Galway,Ireland
>| Tel/Fax : +353 91 92727 / 26 * BBS : +353 91 92711 (4 Lines)


-- 
---
Zeyd M. Ben-Halim       zmbenhal@netcom.com
10479 1/4 Santa Monica Blvd, LA, CA, 90025 (310) 470-0281

------------------------------

From: cheangk@kraken.micro.umn.edu (Pitt Cheang)
Subject: Re: More help with SLIP/DIP please ?
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 06:09:20 GMT

In <2hp00g$kb8@news.acns.nwu.edu> dennis@cauchy.math.nwu.edu (Dennis Director) writes:

>Thanks for the suggestion on the SLIP/DIP problem.
>I'm still not there though.  A couple of specific
>questions.  Why didn't my SLIP server tell me its
>IP address, like I see in examples?
>Why did I get further by by typing:
>"remote" followed by the IP address it gave for
>my address this session ( as suggested by 
>someone) ?

>Now I get to:

>       elvex>slip

>       Entering SLIP mode.
>       Your IP address is 129.105.9.83.  MTU is 1500 bytes
>       Header compression will match your system.

>       [ Back to LOCAL mode. ]
>       DIP> local 129.105.9.83
>       DIP> remote 129.105.9.83

remote IP should be your SLIP server IP address, consult your NetAdmin.

>       DIP> mtu 1500

If you are using kernel p14 or up, you will found that mtu will be 296
for default, try this value and see if this works for you.

>       DIP> mode SLIP
>       socket: Operation not permitted

>As always suggestions and help greatly appreciated.
--
With best regards.                              |  Kong Kin Pitt CHEANG
                                                |       ~{V#8U=!~}
                                                | University of Minnesota
                                                | cheangk@staff.tc.umn.edu

------------------------------

From: juphoff@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu (Uppie)
Subject: Re: PS/2 Mouse
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 07:25:44 GMT

Hui Li (huil@ifi.uio.no) wrote:
: Can some one tell me?

: Is PS/2 Mouse supported in Linux ?

: Thanks

Yup...compile the kernel with PS/2 mouse selected during "make config".
I'm using one on here now.
Make sure the device /dev/psaux exists, and /dev/mouse should be
a link to it, in case anything you use references it as that.

/dev/psaux (or /dev/ps2aux if you prefer) is major number 10, minor
number 1.

--
Jeff Uphoff -- "Uppie"  |  "The secret to good teaching is sincerity. 
                        |  As soon as you learn to fake that, you've got
juphoff@nrao.edu        |  it made."

Check out my WWW/Mosaic home page at:  http://tarsier.cv.nrao.edu/juphoff/home

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix
From: mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis)
Subject: Re: Linux as X-Terminal? No!
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 04:58:53 GMT

doolitt@cebaf4.cebaf.gov (Larry Doolittle) writes:

>In article <1994Jan21.021431.7956@taylor.wyvern.com>,
>mark@taylor.wyvern.com (Mark A. Davis) writes:
>> jasonh@chineham.euro.csg.mot.com (Jason Haar) writes:
>> 
>> >A Linux system with a minimal OS on HD, using NFS to mount software 
>> >(including X11 even) should give better performance than an Xterminal 
>> >because there are no bitmaps flying over the network.
>> 
>> That is incorrect.  Xterminals are highly X optimized, are there are no
>> "bitmaps flying over the network".  There ARE fonts, which should be cached.
>> To compete with an Xterminal, you would need a very fast video card &
>> network adapter.  And even then, it is a LOT more work to get it up and keep

[...]

>Does the "lower long-term costs" include the load on the network and server?

Yep.  The reduced maintenance overheads really do pay off, even factoring
those in.  Network loads are usually less than most workstation setups.
Xterminals usually produce a number of small packets.  Computers, on the
other hand, are typically transfering much larger files (though more
infrequently) which causes more collisions.  This does not always hold,
but many sites have a fairly large amount of NFS mounting on workstations,
causing lots of overhead.  But everyone should keep in mind that Xterminals
*DO* put load on the hosts; one must examine this carefully.

>Our site is having horrible performance problems these days because there 
>are so many people bogging down the mainframes with VUE, mwm, xterms,
>PLUS the real work.  I get much better response running 386/ET-4000/Linux
>than some monster HP server on a big NCD, because I don't depend on the
>network for my window manager and xterms.

Check several things-  1) set up a separate font server or host machines
as a "battery" to fight the problem  2) make sure you have "backing_store_
always" or the equivalent set in the Xterminal, this will prevent 
unnecessary exposes being sent over the net plus improve "apparent" speeds
3) check to make sure you have nothing "leaking"- sometimes there are
unsuspected programs which are constantly active when you are not doing
anything  4) most Xterminals support font caching, if your does then give
it some memory for that function  5) a little extra RAM in the Xterminal can
go a long way (especially mono versions)  6) you might want to get a
window manager ROM for the Xterminal (although the window manager is often
not much of a net load)  7) don't overload a single ethernet segment- but
this holds for all your ethernet devices.

> Of course, I like the 19" screen
>on the NCD much better than the 14" interlaced one on my 386 ...

:)  Typically Xterminal screens are very sharp and flicker-free.  This is
usually because of their design concept (to be used only with X).  It is
one of the things which pushes the color price up.  I have several sizes,
but like the 19".  If I could, I'd love a 30" ;) 

>If someone has a 17+" B&W Xterminal (ethernet) 4Sale cheap, let me know -
>I have a '486 Linux box at home I would like to get another seat for.  :-)

:) :)

-- 
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |
  | Sys.Administrator|  Computer Services   | mark@taylor.wyvern.com   .uucp |
  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II)
Subject: Re: Slackware needs a shadow package!
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 16:53:57 GMT

In article <1994Jan16.043028.28506@unlv.edu> ftlofaro@unlv.edu (Frank Lofaro) writes:
>       Slackware desperately needs a shadow package. For those of us
>who still need decent security (e.g. any one with any dial-in/external
>net access to their machine). I have heard it breaks stuff (the
>defective versions of in.ftpd floating around that say login incorrect
>if you are using shadow passwords, for example) and that is not
>Slackware's fault.

If you can send me the source to in.ftpd I can made the mods needed to
get it to run correctly with Shadow.  I did the same to the BSD RENO
version of ftpd and it only took a few moments.

>               The only current alternative is a SOURCE ONLY
>distribution on ONE ftp site (tsx-11.mit.edu).

This isn't so.  There are many sites which have Shadow, in particular
ftp.uu.net has had Shadow for going on 6 years now.

>is on tsx andd not sunsite (I finally checked the lsm), and you need
>to have a C compiler installed already, etc, etc. Also, it is a pain
>to tweak it to get it to work. You have to comment out some
>conflicting delcarations if you use the syslog features and I still
>haven't got groupadd/groupmod/groupdel to work right. (groupdel gives
>an error, groupmod SEGFAULTS! :(Also, defining GET{PW,GR}ENT macros in
>config.h causes it to give errors on compile, so no use of the dbm
>routines is possible either. Someone must've got it to work before for
>the earlier Slackware's. Right now I just am running with shadow and
>broken group??? utils :().

There have been some incompatible changes to the groups commands made
by others.  The groups commands all work just fine under every OS that
Shadow runs on, save Linux.

>       I am impressed with the Slackware distribution and my many
>thanks go out to Patrick Volkerding... It would make a nice package a
>lot nicer if shadow was there as an option. (with a notice it'll break
>ftp, etc is okay, I'm not even asking for a fixed in.ftpd, tho that'd
>be nice :)

I've offered to fix in.ftpd, but no one has mailed me the source code
as of yet.
-- 
John F. Haugh II  [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ]   @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
The P.C. Movement killed the 1st Amendment, the Brady Bill the 2nd, the WOsD
got the 4th and 5th, political activism the 9th and 10th.  Not much left, eh?

------------------------------

Subject: Re: uucp 1.04 - looking for tester, _complete_ (better)version
From: chorn@ew.sussex.nj.us (Christopher Horn)
Date: 22 Jan 1994 02:32:41 -0600
Reply-To: chorn@ew.sussex.nj.us (Christopher Horn)

vince@victrola.wa.com (Vince Skahan) writes:

[ parts liberally snipped here and there ]

> HDB is fully documented in about every elementary unix communications
> book you'll ever find.  Please find me one that documents Taylor mode.

Find me one written in the last year or two by a knowledgable person. While
the O'Reilly book is a classic, it is a bit dated. 

To illustrate my point further, should I avoid using Inn since it is not
documented in any books I have seen to date? 

> Huh ?  Have you hacked the vanilla sources to the released Taylor 1.04
> or are you just turning the 'i' protocol on as a (poorly chosen) default ?

Poorly? I would say from experience that when talking to another instance of
Taylor UUCP it is the best choice. Or so my phone bills have shown. :-)

> If you've hacked the sources, I sure wouldn't use it.  The standard 
> released sources work just fine and I'd rather be able to drop Ian a
> line to understand what's going on in the remote possibility that there
> is a major problem.
> 
> If you made something other than 'g' the default protocol, you've hurt
> portability and the ability to connect to non-Linux boxes that have
> something other than Taylor as their UUCP.
> 
> If you just ignore the issue and let Taylor negotiate the protocol, it'll
> do the right thing.  Ian did a fine job with what's there now in the 1.04
> sources...

Yes, Ian did. If I recall from the docs, it defaults to i, although I do not
recall if this was only if the other end was identified as being another
Taylor package or not.  As long as both ends support g it does not matter,
because the chat sequence will settle on g if the other end does not support
any of the others anyway. This is all in the docs...

[ lots more snipped here ]

> I think the uucp should be configured in Honey DanBer mode just like it is
> currently for that following reasons:
> 
>       - Taylor UUCP is totally nonstandard, yet there are tens of 
>               thousands of HDB systems out there. It is *THE* standard.

HDB was nonstandard too at one time. Indeed, at one time there where lots of
different "standards" out of which HDB grew.

>       - accordingly, there are also thousands of experienced admins
>               who can help debug it

And a lot of people who run Taylor now as well. 

>       - it's fully documented in quite a number of books including
>               (but not only) the O-Reilly and Associates series and
>               the how-to-administer manuals of every *nix I've seen
>               at work, which includes all the major vendors.

The O'Reilly books are a bit dated though, as mentioned. Do the major
vendors bundle other GNU software with their products? And document it?
Maybe I'm clueless because I've never used a commercial *nix...

>       - no vendor I'm aware of provides Taylor UUCP anywhere.

With a Unix distribution, or do you mean UUCP service providers? I have
heard PSI will use Taylor if you request it, and I've seen posts from a
couple of small regional providers in other groups to the effect they use it
to help cut down on UUCP online time and free up their modems faster.
 
>       - C-news/smail/elm play together perfectly with the HDB mode,
>               yet they do not expect the strange Taylor format.

I had no problems with any of them. Nor with Inn, Pine, Tin, and Trn.

>       - defining non-default packet sizes for uucico is a very dangerous
>               thing that can result in your system crashing the remote
>               system, depending on which software each side runs.

For what protocol? Of course you wouldn't hack the source and change g. And
with other protocols that support different sizes it should not be a problem
anyway. Otherwise one of the two ends is not working properly.

> I see absolutely zero value in switching from BNU (HDB) format to anything
> else and I also see considerable risk in doing so.  As far as the SLS
> news/mail stuff I've provided, I do not plan on configuring them to support
> anything other than BNU...but of course the sources are available on
> sunsite.unc.edu so users 'could' customize things if they are so inclined.

The main reason I switched to Taylor was actually the config files. After
looking at the docs for ten minutes, I had mine written already. They are
more verbose, so are easier to follow and also give you far more control
over everything than HDB or V7 ever have or will.  

Of course, it all boils down to a matter of taste. I used your newspak way
back when I first installed Linux, and it was a great help at the time for
which I thank you. But I think your arguements for sticking to HDB mode are
not really that strong, and just wanted to throw out my two cents.

It would be nice to see Taylor packaged to support all three formats, and then
a configuration script that built one set of files and called uuconv to 
convert them to whatever format you wanted to use as the default. 
 
-Chris
 chorn@ew.sussex.nj.us

------------------------------

Subject: Re: uucp 1.04 - looking for tester, _complete_ (better)version
From: chorn@ew.sussex.nj.us (Christopher Horn)
Date: 22 Jan 1994 02:57:46 -0600

Andreas Klemm (andreas@knobel.knirsch.de) wrote:

: And I had the goal to offer Patrick a working uucp/inn solution.

I hope you follow through on this... especially the Inn part. I think
it would be a good thing to have an alternative choice to Cnews.
Then again, I run Inn myself so am a little biased... :-)

: With nicely explained config files and good examples I think there is no 
: difference if you use taylor or HDB config style.
: Additionally I think taylor is easier to understand, because its
: configuration syntax is much more verbose !

I agree.

: Sorry. You're wrong. I didn't make modifications/patches to the sources.
: But I made the experience, that defining

: #define HAVE_UNBLOCKED_WRITES 1
: and
: #define SINGLE_WRITE 128

: in policy.h gives a better performance than I got with the original package in
: Slackware... (using the same proto and package sizes).
: I'm interested in hearing, if other people make the same experiences....

Yup. I used 256 and it does appear to make a difference over the default 
64. I doubt it makes much of a difference over 128 though. 

-Chris
 chorn@ew.sussex.nj.us 


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: rideau@ens.fr (Francois-Rene Rideau)
Subject: Re: dos2unix, unix2dos text conversion programs??
Date: 21 Jan 1994 11:31:23 GMT


I think GNU recode is the standard answer to such transfer problems.
It should be included in further distributions of linux, and this
should be included in the FAQ.

To get GNU recode, ftp prep.ai.mit.edu or your nearest GNU code depository.

-- 
--    ,                                         ,           _ v    ~  ^  --
-- Fare -- rideau@clipper.ens.fr -- Francois-Rene Rideau -- +)ang-Vu Ban --
--                                      '                   / .          --
MOOSE project member. OSL developper.                     |   |   /
Dreams about The Universal (Distributed) Database.       --- --- //
Snail mail: 6, rue Augustin Thierry 75019 PARIS FRANCE   /|\ /|\ //
Phone: 033 1 42026735                                    /|\ /|\ / 

------------------------------

From: dlj0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DAVID L. JOHNSON)
Subject: Re: CAS for Linux (was Re: Mathematica for Linux)
Date: 22 Jan 94 16:47:11 GMT

In article <CJv56x.34I@cpp.PHA.PA.US>, cfearnl@cpp.PHA.PA.US (Cristopher J. Fearnley) writes:
>question about the best one for graphics.
>Expires: 
>References: <1994Jan18.012910.843@cathy.ijs.si> <2hgk7n$ona@info2.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> <ARA.94Jan18150531@camelot.ai.mit.edu>
>Sender: cfearnl@cpp.pha.pa.us <Chris Fearnley>
>Followup-To: 
>Distribution: world
>Organization: Critical Path Project, Philadelphia
>Keywords: 
>
>In article <ARA.94Jan18150531@camelot.ai.mit.edu> ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler) writes:
>>
>>You can use GAP, Macaulay and Jacal on Linux. They are all free.
>
>I got the PARI/gp calculator from megrez.ceremab.u-bordeaux.fr.  It is a very
>nice high precision calculator.  It has more functions than I'll ever need.
>But I haven't used it under X yet, and I'm not sure it can do the graphics
>I need.  I haven't got GAP yet (samson.math.rwth-aachen.de).  Nor MuPAD
>(ftp.uni-paderborn.de:/pub/local/MuPAD).  But what are Macauley and Jacal and
>where are they?  I also hearn of Maxima (supposedly available on sunsite and
>mirrors.  Anyone know which is the best free one in terms of graphics
>capabilities?
>
pari does reasonable 2d graphics.  So, surprisingly, does maxima (using gs).
Although at present it is hard to work with and has limited libraries, 
MuPAD may well be the best available.  I hven't used it in a while, but found
the graphics powerful (though slow).

Rumor has it that they will release a new, motif-based version in a couple 
months.  Probably worth waiting for.

I don't know the graphics capabilities of gap.  However, if it's graphics you
need, gnuplot is hard to beat.  Many options, output formats, very flexible,
easy o use.  The only thing missing is a drag&rotate 3d window (which I think
MuPAD has).

Mathematically, maxima is the best.  Licensing of that is questionable, though,
but apparantly it is de-facto free.

I'm still waiting for Maple/linux.  Maybe with 1.0 coming out we'll see
movement in the commercial software.  Or maybe wine will support it.


>>
>>Allan Adler
>>ara@altdorf.ai.mit.edu
>
>Chris Fearnley
>cpp.pha.pa.us
>
>
-- 

David L. Johnson                             ID:  dlj0@lehigh.edu
Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015       Telephone: 215-758-3759 (office)
                                                        215-828-3708 (home)
Linux, the people's unix.

------------------------------

From: ramos@engr.latech.edu (Alex Ramos)
Subject: Re: Fortran compilers for linux?
Date: 22 Jan 1994 17:38:09 GMT

Tim Bandy (timn8r@eelpout.micro.umn.edu) wrote:
> I have searched high and low, yet found no trace of a fortran
> compiler for linux.  If any of you out there in the great 
> unknown know of where I can find one, that would be
> simply Maaaahhhvelous.  
> email to timn8r@mermaid.micro.umn.edu

A related question.... does anybody have binaries for matlab and pspice?
(they're distributed in Fortran source code).


Thanks.
--
Alex Ramos <ramos@engr.latech.edu> * This message is copyrighted material!
Louisiana Tech University BSEE/Sr  * All rights reserved. No warranty, etc

------------------------------

From: jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II)
Subject: Re: Slackware needs a shadow package!
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 17:39:45 GMT

In article <1994Jan20.010011.30632@valis.ampr.ab.ca> user1@valis.ampr.ab.ca (Kevin Fluet) writes:
>1)     I don't know the specifics, but there seems to be problems getting
>all software to work properly with it (creating a massive hole where the
>whole thing can be bypassed).

The other software is the problem, not Shadow.  The alternative is to
compile Shadow with AUTOSHADOW defined, then the problem should go away.
This will cause other problems, unless you compile two different
libraries two different ways.

>2)     More importantly, the shadow package is not under the GNU copyleft. 
>The shadow copyright states that you _cannot_ charge one penny more than the
>cost of duplication for the package.  This means that the package cannot be
>included if a fee is charged for duplication of Slackware if any costs over
>and above what the disks or CD's cost is added, no matter how reasonable.  
>
>I can't speak for other people who distribute Linux, but if Slackware
>includes this package and I can't charge for my time and effort, I won't
>distribute it any more.

All you have to do to distribute Shadow with your product is license the
code from me.  Since I've never heard of you, you clearly haven't bothered
trying.  Don't you think it is rather rude and presumptuous of you to sell
someone elses property without their permission?  As I've told everyone
else who has approached me to license the code, for a rather reasonable
fee you get

        * Internal documentation
        * Bug fixes from other platforms
        * Real support from me, not some hacker in Finland

Seems like you want to cut off your nose to spite your face.
-- 
John F. Haugh II  [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ]   @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
The P.C. Movement killed the 1st Amendment, the Brady Bill the 2nd, the WOsD
got the 4th and 5th, political activism the 9th and 10th.  Not much left, eh?

------------------------------

From: jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II)
Subject: Re: Linux Distributions and the Shadow Password Suite
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 17:42:58 GMT

In article <1994Jan21.180607.17012@swan.pyr> iiitac@swan.pyr (Alan Cox) writes:
>And unfortunately its neither the first time nor will it be the last time this
>has happened. But it is a distribution of linux problem not a linux issue -
>and nobody has every claimed the distributions are GPL - much is BSD, or
>assorted author copyrights.

Uh, I've read the BSD copyright.  If you guys have trouble with my
copyright, you guys should be throwing fits over the BSD copyright.

This boils down to exactly one thing -- several distributors have
threatened to "kill" Shadow if I don't GPL the code.
-- 
John F. Haugh II  [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ]   @'s: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
The P.C. Movement killed the 1st Amendment, the Brady Bill the 2nd, the WOsD
got the 4th and 5th, political activism the 9th and 10th.  Not much left, eh?

------------------------------


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