Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #576
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Thu, 20 Jan 94 23:13:20 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #576, Volume #1                Thu, 20 Jan 94 23:13:20 EST

Contents:
  Re: Archives of Torvalds/Tanenbaum discussion? (Thomas G. McWilliams)
  Re: Mathematica for Linux (Chuck Neerdaels)
  Re: Linux as X-Terminal? No! (Jason Haar)
  Any support for parallel port tape? (Dennis Director)
  Survey Results -- Linux Journal (Linux Journal)
  desktop capability under Linux (Allan Adler)
  bad sectors (Allan Adler)
  Re: Mathematica for Linux (Andrej Bauer)
  Re: pwd BASH ? (Chet Ramey)
  Re: Archives of Torvalds/Tanenbaum discussion? (M. Mueller)
  Re: Linux as X-Terminal? No! (Grant Edwards)
  Re: Attach an X terminal *TO* a Linux box? (Andrew M Dyer)
  Apology (Was Re: Beter than Xmag?) (Dan Miner)
  Modem woes (David N Mezera)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: tgm@netcom.com (Thomas G. McWilliams)
Subject: Re: Archives of Torvalds/Tanenbaum discussion?
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 13:41:35 GMT

Gary Shea (shea@hawk.cs.ukans.edu) wrote:
: Did anyone archive the discussion between Linus Torvalds
: and Andrew Tanenbaum that apparently took place as
: Linux was being developed?
: I'm curious what they had to say.

I believe that the comp.os.minix group is archived at James Madison
University but I don't have an address. Ask in comp.os.minix

Thomas

------------------------------

From: chuckn@rand.org (Chuck Neerdaels)
Subject: Re: Mathematica for Linux
Date: 20 Jan 1994 16:10:06 GMT

just checking out this thread, and realized some of you may or may not
have heard of Reduce.  It has been around longer than most of the other
packages, costs less, and has a truly worldwide network of users.

It does lack some of the glitz of the more commercial packages, but most of
us using Linux have already dealt with these kinds of trades with a variety
of software packages.

The packages has been compiled and running under Linux for quite some time,
so if you're interested send a message to reduce-netlib@rand.org with 
the subject line "Send info-package"

By the way, I don't personally benefit from the sales, I just figured I'd
kick in another alternative.

chuckn@rand.org

------------------------------

From: jasonh@chineham.euro.csg.mot.com (Jason Haar)
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix
Subject: Re: Linux as X-Terminal? No!
Date: 20 Jan 1994 09:42:37 GMT

A Linux system with a minimal OS on HD, using NFS to mount software 
(including X11 even) should give better performance than an Xterminal 
because there are no bitmaps flying over the network.

I used to run Andrews 'messages' X11-mailer from a server - response was 
really slow 'cause of the amount of graphics involved. I switched to NFS 
mounting the Andrew partition, and ran the images locally, and response 
leapt through the roof (yes, it was definitely the network that was the 
bottleneck).

I'd say the best option would be a workstation (Linux, Sun, doesn't 
matter), that had the OS and X11 on local disk (to dramatically cut down 
on the amount of NFS traffic), and NFS mount anything else - /var/spool, 
/home, etc.

OTOH, Xterminals do mean less work - generally :-)

--

Cheers,

Jason
+------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
| Jason Haar, European SysAdmin   Phone: + 44 (256) 790111                |
| Motorola Cellular Subscriber      Fax: + 44 (256) 817481                |
| Basingstoke, Hampshire                                                  |
| RG24 0GY,  ENGLAND           Internet: jasonh@chineham.euro.csg.mot.com |
+------------------------------+------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: dennis@cauchy.math.nwu.edu (Dennis Director)
Subject: Any support for parallel port tape?
Date: 20 Jan 1994 16:30:19 GMT

Parallel port external tape drives seem like a great idea for
people with numerous machines, including notebooks.
But, does linux support any of them? That would make it useful
on linux and dos machines, even if the tapes were not
interchangable.  Thanks. 


------------------------------

From: linux@fylz.com (Linux Journal)
Subject: Survey Results -- Linux Journal
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 18:15:18 GMT

This is an article that will appear in the March issue of Linux Journal.
It includes the results of the most recent survey we posted to Usenet
asking for suggestions on the content of Linux Journal (for which I said
I would post a summary).  Note that there is some editing so it can be
read as plain ASCII.

When we were first kicking around the idea of Linux Journal we decided
that a survey posted to the comp.os.linux newsgroup on Usenet would be
the best way to find areas of interest. In April, 1993 we posted that
survey to the Internet and tabulated the answers.

The initial answers told us two things:
  * Linux Journal was needed
  * What people wanted to see in LJ

In order to make sure we were still on track, we posted the same
survey to Usenet in December, 1993. The letters column comes from
answers to question two of the survey, "Are there any other topics
you would like to see covered?" The table below shows average
responses to question one of the survey.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Survey question 1 answers                                                   |
|                                                                             |
| Rate your interest in the following features:                               |
| (1=not interested, 2=possible interest, 3=interested,                       |
| 4=very interested, 5=that's my subject!)                                    |
|                                                                             |
| Apr 93  Dec 93   Question                                                   |
|  2.4     2.6    a. Club and organization contacts                           |
|  2.7     2.8    b. Non-commercial classified ads                            |
|  4.1     4.0    c. Latest Linux release information                         |
|  2.9     3.1    d. Letters to the editor                                    |
|  2.9     3.0    e. Software wanted column                                   |
|  3.9     3.9    f. Linux Questions and Answers                              |
|  4.0     4.2    g. New Linux-related products                               |
|  2.7     2.8    h. New to the club -- a focus on schools, etc that are      |
|                    getting into Linux                                       |
|  2.9     3.0    i. Linux Profile -- a look at a Linux developer or user     |
|  3.8     4.0    j. Tutorial on a particular aspect of Linux (or Unix)       |
|  4.0     4.4    k. Current trends -- what's happening with Linux            |
|                    (becoming commercial, support by vendors, etc)           |
|  2.8     2.7    l. Introduction to Linux -- basic background information on |
|                    Linux for first-time or prospective users                |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Based on the results of this survey we have tailored the content of LJ
and will continue to tailor it based on reader feedback.  If you haven't
responded to the survey and would like to, you can request a copy
from our archive server.  Details are at the end of this article.

With regard to advertising policy (question 3) about 90% of those
who responded supported the policy. More people felt that we should
let anyone advertise than felt that having advertising was a mistake.
Many of the readers felt that advertising would help them locate new
products and saw that as an advantage.

Virtually everyone who returned the survey said they would like to
subscribe and about 10% offered to write articles. Interest in
advertising was lower (about 3%) but that was to be expected. We thank
you all for your support.

When we first started getting subscribers, about 85% were from the
United States. Survey results were running more like 65% from the U.S.
We then made an offer of free copies of LJ for user groups to give out
to their members and the response was about 50% non-US.

Our conclusion was that our higher non-US subscription rates was
the problem. So, we negotiated with international distributors and now
offer the same subscription rate ($19/year) anywhere on the planet. We
expect this change will get our subscriber base more in line with the
survey results.

+------------------------------------------+
|Distribution of Linux Journal subscribers |
|                                          |
| Location           Percentage            |
|                                          |
| United States          85%               |
|    Northeast   24%                       |
|    West        18%                       |
|    Southwest   14%                       |
|    Midwest     12%                       |
|    Atlantic    11%                       |
|    South        7%                       |
|                                          |
| Non-US                 15%               |
|    Canada       5%                       |
|    Germany      4%                       |
|    Sweden       2%                       |
|    Japan        2%                       |
|    Israel       1%                       |
|    Finland      1%                       |
+------------------------------------------+


+-----------------------------------------------+
|User Groups requesting copies of Linux Journal |
|                                               |
| Location      number     %                    |
| United States   35      50                    |
| Europe          27      39                    |
| Other Int.       7      11                    |
+-----------------------------------------------+


Requesting the survey form
==========================
If you would like a copy of the survey form, you can get it off
our archive server.  Send a message to:
    mail-server@fylz.com
In the body of the message include the following lines:
    begin
    send lj/survey
    end

The following files are also available and may be of interest:
    Request                    File Description
    -----------------------    ----------------------------------
    send lj/info.sheet         Information sheet on Linux Journal
    send lj/author.guide       Linux Journal Author's Guide
    send lj/unusual.alliance   About the guys who started LJ
    send lj/refund.policy      Linux Journal refund policy
    send lj/ratecard.ps        LJ rate card in PostScript (~200K)
-- 
Linux Journal -- The magazine of, for and about the Linux Community
P.O. Box 85867, Seattle, WA 98145-1867 USA
E-mail: linux@fylz.com   Phone: +1 206 524 8338 FAX: +1 206 526 0803

------------------------------

From: ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler)
Crossposted-To: comp.text.desktop
Subject: desktop capability under Linux
Date: 20 Jan 94 14:53:06


Can someone describe the best way to give oneself desktop publishing 
capability on a 80386 DX 33 MHz PC running Linux?

Allan Adler
ara@altdorf.ai.mit.edu

------------------------------

From: ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler)
Subject: bad sectors
Date: 20 Jan 94 15:01:32


I find that when I mount a floppy diskette with bad sectors and
then write to it with, say, the cp command

cp foo.bar /mnt/a

I get diskette errors. DOS, on the other hand, has no trobule dealing with
the bad sectors and avoiding them. I have found a similar problem with the
diskette reader in a Sparc. Anyone would like to expalin why is
welcome to.

Allan Adler
ara@altdorf.ai.mit.edu

------------------------------

From: Andrej.Bauer@ijs.si (Andrej Bauer)
Crossposted-To: sci.math.symbolic
Subject: Re: Mathematica for Linux
Date: 20 Jan 94 17:03:15 +0100

> Sorry, but I've done the same thing about a half year before.
> You see: Nothing really happens ...
> ( Get MuPaD ! )

I don't want MuPad, Jacal or any other animal of the kind.
I want Mathematica. I have to work with Mathematica (not that
I mind). I am not going to port an entire OO package from Mathematica
to something else.

BTW, CAS developers should fear that a free clone of Mathematica
for Linux will pop up one day if they just sit and wait :-)
There seems to be an incredible amount of enthusiasts who
write programs for free.

Andrej

===================
Andrej.Bauer@IJS.si

------------------------------

From: chet@odin.ins.cwru.edu (Chet Ramey)
Subject: Re: pwd BASH ?
Date: 20 Jan 1994 16:46:24 GMT

In article <2h6uks$81@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>,
Louis J. LaBash Jr.  <lou@minuet.siue.edu> wrote:

>Is pwd an internal BASH command?  Also, do other SHELLs use an external
>pwd executable?

Yes, it is a bash builtin.  An `external' executable is as simple as

#! /bin/bash
builtin pwd

-- 
"You can watch an actor absolutely sabotage a good script and then read
 reviews like 'Unfortunately, even the impressive talents of Cheech Marin
 could not salvage Anton Chekhov's trite and meandering script.'"
Chet Ramey, Case Western Reserve University     Internet: chet@po.CWRU.Edu

------------------------------

From: mm@lunetix.de (M. Mueller)
Subject: Re: Archives of Torvalds/Tanenbaum discussion?
Date: 20 Jan 1994 18:15:57 GMT

Gary Shea (shea@hawk.cs.ukans.edu) wrote:
: Did anyone archive the discussion between Linus Torvalds
: and Andrew Tanenbaum that apparently took place as
: Linux was being developed?

: I'm curious what they had to say.

:       Gary
: -- 
: Gary Shea (shea@cs.ukans.edu)           Department of Computer Science
:       System Manager                    University of Kansas, Lawrence

Get it from:  ftp.funet.fi
directory:    /pub/OS/Linux/doc/news
filename:     Linux_is_obsolete.Z

Happy reading! It's worth it.
--
=============================================================================
Martin Mueller | Kennen Sie schon das LINUX-Anwender-  | Email: mm@lunetix.de
               | Handbuch ? (finger linux@lunetix.de)  | Tel.: +49 30 6227300
               |     Ab jetzt in der Version 3.0!      | Fax : +49 30 6221075
=============================================================================

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.i386unix
From: grante@hydro.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Linux as X-Terminal? No!
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 17:08:27 GMT

Byron A Jeff (byron@cc.gatech.edu) wrote:

: Where I work (Clark Atlata University) we are kicking around the idea of
: how to provide X interfaces to the University computer systems. Our 2
: contenders are Xterminals and Linux PC's running X. What I'm trying to
: figure out is the cost of a PC in the same ballpark as the Xterminal.
: Here's the features list and appx cost:

: Motherboard - Cyrix 486DLC40 /w math CPU and 256K cache - $185.00
: Memory      - 8 meg DRAM based on $35/meg               - $280.00
: Hard Disk   - 170 MB disk - this is not a file server   - $190.00
: Ethernet    - NE2000 clone                              - $ 70.00
: Misc        - case,PS,multi-IO,keyboard,mouse           - $130.00
: Video       - This is where we need to talk               ???????
:                                                           --------
:                                                           $855.00 + video

: The video is where I'm kinda stumped. I don't think color is necessary
: however the only mono monitors I see are the $115 14" jobbers which are
: probably not up to the job. Does anyone know of 16"-19" monochome/greyscale
: monitors for this type of work? How much do they run?

The only cheap SVGA mono/greyscale tubes I've seen were 14" 640x480.  Not
enough for X11 in my opinion.

I've been looking in vain for a decent 17 or 19 inch greyscale or mono
monitor for SVGA use.  You can't get a decent greyscale monitor for
SVGA other than a 21" $1200 nanao which has just been discontinued.

: As for the rest of the video, is there anyway to get high performance
: X in monochrome. All the 100,000+ xstone machines I've seen are using
: accelerators and color. Is there anyway this can be done for mono/greyscale?

Yup - use a greyscale workstation monitor, 19" greyscale for Suns
(1152x900 66Hz) can be had for about $400.  They are fixed frequency
and you have to set up your Xfree timings appropriately.  The problem
is that the monitor won't display anything until Xfree starts up.

Kind of a pain to setup and maintain.

: Anyway it seems that with a $115 monitor and a cheap video card the cost
: can be kept to under $1000. But the real question is how good and Xterminal
: can a system like this be?

IMHO, marginal (though I haven't tried it yet).  The other alternative
that I'm considering is buying a diskless Sun 3/60 19" monochrome and
booting it as an X Terminal.  You have to support NFS and tftp boot --
which you do for many X Terminals also (at least tftp).  X-Terminals
are also more idiot proof.  Scattering a bunch of Linux systems around
campus sounds like a lot of support work doing upgrades and fixing
stuff that people break.  Many X-Terminals load their server software
and fonts via tftp, so you only have to load new software once and
your done.

I think you'll be better off buying off-the-shelf X-Terminals.  You
should be able to get decent mono or greyscale X-Terminals for $1000
to $1200.

But I still want to play games under DOS -- so I'll still have to get
an SVGA board and a cheap SVGA tube.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I just heard the
Rosemount Inc.                                |SEVENTIES were over!!  And I
                                              |was just getting in touch
grante@rosemount.com                          |with my LEISURE SUIT!!

------------------------------

From: amd@chinet.chinet.com (Andrew M Dyer)
Subject: Re: Attach an X terminal *TO* a Linux box?
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 00:44:20 GMT

A better idea is to look for terminals which support NFS.  I have a 
Pagine M2000 on my home machine using NFS to download the server and local
clients - it's much nicer than tftp.  Also many vendors can get you the 
server software on CD-ROM, which in most cases is more convenient than QIC
tape.

-- 
=============================
Andrew Dyer
amd@chinet.chi.il.us

------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
From: dminer@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Dan Miner)
Subject: Apology (Was Re: Beter than Xmag?)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 18:34:01 GMT

Again, I would like to apologize to the community for my last post
concerning Jerry Whelan's post of the obvious solution to making
Xwindow (XFree86/X386 server only) accessible to visually impaired 
persons.

It was wrong of me to "attack" him for an innocent and well-meant
suggestion.  As I told him, he made of couple of sweeping statements
that is in essence are incorrect.

Maybe I can help _define_ the problems of Xwindows (and many other 
windowing/GUI systems).

What is a vision impairment?
        It is most generally thought of as "A condition in which
'normal' functioning is difficult to impossible".  Realize, this is a
very loose statement.  Why?  Consider someone with color blindness.
What does it mean?  Does it mean s/he can't see color at all?  In some
cases, but not in most.  It really is the fact that the person doesn't
possess the discriminating factor for some or all colors.  What is
legally blind?  Again, another misleading term.  I am legally blind.  I
read my computer screen as any of you do (except I can't be on the
other side of room :).  I have friends who can't _read_ my monitor but
have let me know that a hair ball is at my feet.  *grin*  And others I 
know can't walk an open room without hitting something.

        Remember, vision is highly complex.  Low-vision specialists
can't agree on many things if that helps indicate its elusiveness.

What are the major areas of problems with Xwindows in specific?
        
        Resolution:  This is the easiest to overcome.  Just change it
with help from others.  But it becomes very hard to tell Xwindows how
to magnify when the hardware method doesn't work.  I mean 'hard' as in
dynamic changes show up in the enlarge section WITHOUT polling the
screen.  (Very bad for performance :)  A place where Xwindow, I feel,
failed us.

        Mouse Cursor, position and tracking:  The simplest way to show
this one is noting that it is hard to _find_ it in the first place.
[OS/2, MSWindows, and Mac are very hard for me].  Once you find it, it
is extremely easy to lose it again.  Is there a solution?

        Partially.  You can run the mouse til you are sure that it is
in one of the four corners and MOVE IT very slowly to the desired
point.  This is slow and tedious.  (This is currently what I do)
        You can make the cursor bigger (from support of the window
manager) by using pixmaps and such.  Ok, consider you need a
cursor 1/4 the size of your screen to follow it along its paths to
desired points.  That's insane!  So, there are limits on this method.
        A third way would use cross-hairs or "cross targeting".  Having
two lines (rubber-banded), perpendicular, follow the point of the mouse
would greatly help.  And it would be better in conjunction with the
other methods I cited.
        Realize, this isn't all of them.  These are the ones I know and
have used.

        Tracking of Software generated cursors:  What do I mean?  Look
at any text entry field.  Now, compare Motif to Athena to xterm.
Different aren't they?  Now, can I query (ask) an application (any) to
tell me where its cursor is (in software)?  I don't know of any way to
do this under Xwindows.  Now consider, you have your screen magnified
4x and you are typing in a field.  The field is _longer_ that your
physical screen.  You continue typing... hey.. I can't see my typing
anymore.  :) What should happen it the enlarged section is moved to
follow that typing.  Otherwise, you have to explicitly tell the
magnifying software to move or pan the window (hardware method).

        On-demand Magnification:  In the hardware method, you can
define several screen resolutions.  But, you will have to probably have
defined 10 or more to cover most cases.  Remember, text isn't
everything Xwindows is about.  There are icon, large or small, and
colors, graphs, pictures, etc.  It would be hard to use this to examine
a small icon or widget.  What about software magnification?  Again,
Xwindows hides many facets of the video hardware.  One is the changing
of the window(s).  Can someone tell me how to know when a section of
the screen has changed without searching the entire screen for
differences in the last "seen" copy?  Imagine comparing 1 meg of data
to another.. SLOW!  And do it, oh say, 10 times per second.


Am I finished?

        Actually no.  But I think this post is long enough and hopefully
it has shown the fact that the first post "Beter than Xmag?" had
more to it than just make the text big.


My request:
        I would like to work on this problem.  I've been thinking about 
it for a couple of years.  I don't have the money to buy every book
on Xwindows to learn it inside and out.  I'm just beginning with it.
So, if you would like to make me happier (and others!).  Send me
suggestions and code samples or if you have knowledge of Xwindows;
could you consider helping in design and coding?  I will be
editing and forming a guideline document to help better focus
its development.

Thanks and sorry,
Dan
--
Dan Miner                                       dminer@nyx.cs.du.edu

Future student                                  Linux: try it, you'll like.
"Your program is encoded in pi."                I started with a 64

------------------------------

From: dmezera@afit.af.mil (David N Mezera)
Subject: Modem woes
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 1994 13:56:53 GMT

Ever since I installed linux pl-12 a while back I've been unable to
access my modem (it works fine under DOS, and worked fine under linux
pl-9, so I doubt the problem is with the modem hardware). When I dial
out under kermit, the machine pauses for about 5-10 seconds before I
get the following message:

                        Call failed ("n").

When the problem first appeared, I rm'd cua3 (since my modem is set up
for COM4), and then used MAKEDEV to recreate cua3. For a short time
after this, the modem worked and I thought I had the problem solved.
The problem has since reappeared and repeating this process has not
worked. 

Any ideas?

--
David Mezera                              It's a dog-eat-dog world
dmezera@afit.af.mil                       and I'm wearing milkbone underwear.
                                            - Norm from "Cheers"


------------------------------


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